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I'm actually pretty mad about this IWD thing. He was way nicer than Oddone and Saint in my eyes, and don't let me get started on Regi and Dyrus. But I guess the Tribunal said otherwise :/ (funny how they're all famous streamers and IWD isn't.)
Crumbzz jungle would make me really happy. Sadly there isn't a simple good toplane in NA, like people are worse than Crumbzz at that role. Wings would honestly be Dig's only hope.
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On December 05 2012 09:52 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 09:41 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:39 Atokad wrote:On December 05 2012 09:33 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:28 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 09:21 Ketara wrote:On December 05 2012 08:57 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 08:52 Ketara wrote:
Anybody who says this is a bad thing or that Riot has too much power isn't thinking straight I feel. I still stand by the belief that what someone does in pub play shouldn't impact their ability to play competitively. This doesn't make any sense. IWD is a public figure for the game and for Riot in general. The way he acts in solo queue has an impact on what people think of the game, and he should be punished appropriately. Preventing him from participating in tournaments is an appropriate punishment just like it would be appropriate for a Disneyland employee to get fired from Disneyland for going around and telling people Disneyland is a terrible place. Except that's not how it works in any other eSport ever. Mostly because the developer's don't completely control the entire competitive scene. Valve might punish DotA2 players and not allow them to come to the international but they could still play at every other DotA2 event. Because Riot sponsors nearly every LAN and has incorporated every LAN into their championship series a ban from competitive play means that your career as a pro gamer is over. Like the level of control that Riot has on their scene is equivalent to what KeSPA had. Riot just hasn't abused their power. Yet. Yes this amount of control Riot has over the game is horrible policy and borderline unconstitutional. However, this is the system we are stuck with in the U.S. and most of the world (until lobbyists for movies, music, etc. somehow don't control Congress lololol). Not really Riot's fault they are gifted with this ridiculous IP system and they use it to the fullest extent. I think this discussion though is kinda getting too far from what's happening here. Basically, Riot has the legal authority to do this and they used it in a reasonable way here. The main thing I'm afraid of is that it's not really a fair system and the more popular players are basically untouchable no matter what they do. How more popular do you need to get? He's on one of the most well-known pro teams and plays for them in every tournament. Not a fair system? 9 tribunal trips, 8 punishments. Any reasonable person would agree you should learn your lesson after that or something like this is going to happen, no matter who you are. I dunno I think Riot may be a lot more lenient with someone like Dyrus who has a huge fan following. They may still ban him if he goes super out of line but somehow I think he will get more chances. If that's the case and people are worried, then maybe they should create a player union like NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. There will always be a power struggle between the owners (Riot) and the players so there may as well be a central player organization to help each other out.
I don't think people/players are necessarily worried. Riot made it pretty clear you have to be a huge douche in-game AND disregard every single warning from both the players he played against/with and Riot themselves. Most people would have learned before they get to the point IWD did.
And although a players union sounds nice, I can't really recall a single huge event against (pro) players by Riot that would make anyone even consider forming a union.
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I remember when Hotshot got hacked Oddone played a game with Hackedshotgg and got banned from WCG qualifiers or something l0l. This is a bit over the top though.
Actually, thinking about it, there used to be so much shit happening in League that wasn't widespread since no one used Reddit back then. I'd love to see what the community reactions would be nowadays, like when Regi would order pizzas to Hotshot's house.
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On December 05 2012 09:59 HazMat wrote:
I'm actually pretty mad about this IWD thing. He was way nicer than Oddone and Saint in my eyes, and don't let me get started on Regi and Dyrus. But I guess the Tribunal said otherwise :/ (funny how they're all famous streamers and IWD isn't.)
Crumbzz jungle would make me really happy. Sadly there isn't a simple good toplane in NA, like people are worse than Crumbzz at that role. Wings would honestly be Dig's only hope.
Saint doesn't really act out that much in solo queue though. That last time I remember doing something that was bannable was his Trundle double jungle stunt that actually got him banned for a bot. Not that Saint is a saint but I don't think he cares enough about solo queue to rage like a lot of other pros.
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On December 05 2012 10:00 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 09:52 JBright wrote:On December 05 2012 09:41 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:39 Atokad wrote:On December 05 2012 09:33 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:28 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 09:21 Ketara wrote:On December 05 2012 08:57 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 08:52 Ketara wrote:
Anybody who says this is a bad thing or that Riot has too much power isn't thinking straight I feel. I still stand by the belief that what someone does in pub play shouldn't impact their ability to play competitively. This doesn't make any sense. IWD is a public figure for the game and for Riot in general. The way he acts in solo queue has an impact on what people think of the game, and he should be punished appropriately. Preventing him from participating in tournaments is an appropriate punishment just like it would be appropriate for a Disneyland employee to get fired from Disneyland for going around and telling people Disneyland is a terrible place. Except that's not how it works in any other eSport ever. Mostly because the developer's don't completely control the entire competitive scene. Valve might punish DotA2 players and not allow them to come to the international but they could still play at every other DotA2 event. Because Riot sponsors nearly every LAN and has incorporated every LAN into their championship series a ban from competitive play means that your career as a pro gamer is over. Like the level of control that Riot has on their scene is equivalent to what KeSPA had. Riot just hasn't abused their power. Yet. Yes this amount of control Riot has over the game is horrible policy and borderline unconstitutional. However, this is the system we are stuck with in the U.S. and most of the world (until lobbyists for movies, music, etc. somehow don't control Congress lololol). Not really Riot's fault they are gifted with this ridiculous IP system and they use it to the fullest extent. I think this discussion though is kinda getting too far from what's happening here. Basically, Riot has the legal authority to do this and they used it in a reasonable way here. The main thing I'm afraid of is that it's not really a fair system and the more popular players are basically untouchable no matter what they do. How more popular do you need to get? He's on one of the most well-known pro teams and plays for them in every tournament. Not a fair system? 9 tribunal trips, 8 punishments. Any reasonable person would agree you should learn your lesson after that or something like this is going to happen, no matter who you are. I dunno I think Riot may be a lot more lenient with someone like Dyrus who has a huge fan following. They may still ban him if he goes super out of line but somehow I think he will get more chances. If that's the case and people are worried, then maybe they should create a player union like NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. There will always be a power struggle between the owners (Riot) and the players so there may as well be a central player organization to help each other out. I don't think people/players are necessarily worried. Riot made it pretty clear you have to be a huge douche in-game AND disregard every single warning from both the players he played against/with and Riot themselves. Most people would have learned before they get to the point IWD did.
Yeah but when every pro is salaried by the same group that's running the league you're all playing in a player's union makes sense. The organizing body has too much power.
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On December 05 2012 10:02 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:00 beefhamburger wrote:On December 05 2012 09:52 JBright wrote:On December 05 2012 09:41 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:39 Atokad wrote:On December 05 2012 09:33 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:28 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 09:21 Ketara wrote:On December 05 2012 08:57 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 08:52 Ketara wrote:
Anybody who says this is a bad thing or that Riot has too much power isn't thinking straight I feel. I still stand by the belief that what someone does in pub play shouldn't impact their ability to play competitively. This doesn't make any sense. IWD is a public figure for the game and for Riot in general. The way he acts in solo queue has an impact on what people think of the game, and he should be punished appropriately. Preventing him from participating in tournaments is an appropriate punishment just like it would be appropriate for a Disneyland employee to get fired from Disneyland for going around and telling people Disneyland is a terrible place. Except that's not how it works in any other eSport ever. Mostly because the developer's don't completely control the entire competitive scene. Valve might punish DotA2 players and not allow them to come to the international but they could still play at every other DotA2 event. Because Riot sponsors nearly every LAN and has incorporated every LAN into their championship series a ban from competitive play means that your career as a pro gamer is over. Like the level of control that Riot has on their scene is equivalent to what KeSPA had. Riot just hasn't abused their power. Yet. Yes this amount of control Riot has over the game is horrible policy and borderline unconstitutional. However, this is the system we are stuck with in the U.S. and most of the world (until lobbyists for movies, music, etc. somehow don't control Congress lololol). Not really Riot's fault they are gifted with this ridiculous IP system and they use it to the fullest extent. I think this discussion though is kinda getting too far from what's happening here. Basically, Riot has the legal authority to do this and they used it in a reasonable way here. The main thing I'm afraid of is that it's not really a fair system and the more popular players are basically untouchable no matter what they do. How more popular do you need to get? He's on one of the most well-known pro teams and plays for them in every tournament. Not a fair system? 9 tribunal trips, 8 punishments. Any reasonable person would agree you should learn your lesson after that or something like this is going to happen, no matter who you are. I dunno I think Riot may be a lot more lenient with someone like Dyrus who has a huge fan following. They may still ban him if he goes super out of line but somehow I think he will get more chances. If that's the case and people are worried, then maybe they should create a player union like NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. There will always be a power struggle between the owners (Riot) and the players so there may as well be a central player organization to help each other out. I don't think people/players are necessarily worried. Riot made it pretty clear you have to be a huge douche in-game AND disregard every single warning from both the players he played against/with and Riot themselves. Most people would have learned before they get to the point IWD did. Yeah but when every pro is salaried by the same group that's running the league you're all playing in a player's union makes sense. The organizing body has too much power.
Yeah, it's not like Riot owns the game and bankrolls the scene. They are truly the evil guys here!
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On December 05 2012 10:04 CrimsonLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:02 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 10:00 beefhamburger wrote:On December 05 2012 09:52 JBright wrote:On December 05 2012 09:41 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:39 Atokad wrote:On December 05 2012 09:33 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:28 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 09:21 Ketara wrote:On December 05 2012 08:57 overt wrote:
[quote]
I still stand by the belief that what someone does in pub play shouldn't impact their ability to play competitively. This doesn't make any sense. IWD is a public figure for the game and for Riot in general. The way he acts in solo queue has an impact on what people think of the game, and he should be punished appropriately. Preventing him from participating in tournaments is an appropriate punishment just like it would be appropriate for a Disneyland employee to get fired from Disneyland for going around and telling people Disneyland is a terrible place. Except that's not how it works in any other eSport ever. Mostly because the developer's don't completely control the entire competitive scene. Valve might punish DotA2 players and not allow them to come to the international but they could still play at every other DotA2 event. Because Riot sponsors nearly every LAN and has incorporated every LAN into their championship series a ban from competitive play means that your career as a pro gamer is over. Like the level of control that Riot has on their scene is equivalent to what KeSPA had. Riot just hasn't abused their power. Yet. Yes this amount of control Riot has over the game is horrible policy and borderline unconstitutional. However, this is the system we are stuck with in the U.S. and most of the world (until lobbyists for movies, music, etc. somehow don't control Congress lololol). Not really Riot's fault they are gifted with this ridiculous IP system and they use it to the fullest extent. I think this discussion though is kinda getting too far from what's happening here. Basically, Riot has the legal authority to do this and they used it in a reasonable way here. The main thing I'm afraid of is that it's not really a fair system and the more popular players are basically untouchable no matter what they do. How more popular do you need to get? He's on one of the most well-known pro teams and plays for them in every tournament. Not a fair system? 9 tribunal trips, 8 punishments. Any reasonable person would agree you should learn your lesson after that or something like this is going to happen, no matter who you are. I dunno I think Riot may be a lot more lenient with someone like Dyrus who has a huge fan following. They may still ban him if he goes super out of line but somehow I think he will get more chances. If that's the case and people are worried, then maybe they should create a player union like NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. There will always be a power struggle between the owners (Riot) and the players so there may as well be a central player organization to help each other out. I don't think people/players are necessarily worried. Riot made it pretty clear you have to be a huge douche in-game AND disregard every single warning from both the players he played against/with and Riot themselves. Most people would have learned before they get to the point IWD did. Yeah but when every pro is salaried by the same group that's running the league you're all playing in a player's union makes sense. The organizing body has too much power. Yeah, it's not like Riot owns the game and bankrolls the scene. They are truly the evil guys here!
It's not about evil or bad, it's about the fact that sometimes Riot and the players will have different interests, and if the players don't organize they have less influence on the decisions that deal with those issues.
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What would a player union accomplish? Ok we want the ability to be toxic in solo q games forever and not risk getting banned. Riot is doing some insanely awesome things with their game. People wanting to find negative flaws because they don't treat their pros better than anyone else. Newsflash, even with the perm ban, he was treated better than the average gamer.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On December 05 2012 09:58 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 09:52 JBright wrote:On December 05 2012 09:41 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:39 Atokad wrote:On December 05 2012 09:33 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:28 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 09:21 Ketara wrote:On December 05 2012 08:57 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 08:52 Ketara wrote:
Anybody who says this is a bad thing or that Riot has too much power isn't thinking straight I feel. I still stand by the belief that what someone does in pub play shouldn't impact their ability to play competitively. This doesn't make any sense. IWD is a public figure for the game and for Riot in general. The way he acts in solo queue has an impact on what people think of the game, and he should be punished appropriately. Preventing him from participating in tournaments is an appropriate punishment just like it would be appropriate for a Disneyland employee to get fired from Disneyland for going around and telling people Disneyland is a terrible place. Except that's not how it works in any other eSport ever. Mostly because the developer's don't completely control the entire competitive scene. Valve might punish DotA2 players and not allow them to come to the international but they could still play at every other DotA2 event. Because Riot sponsors nearly every LAN and has incorporated every LAN into their championship series a ban from competitive play means that your career as a pro gamer is over. Like the level of control that Riot has on their scene is equivalent to what KeSPA had. Riot just hasn't abused their power. Yet. Yes this amount of control Riot has over the game is horrible policy and borderline unconstitutional. However, this is the system we are stuck with in the U.S. and most of the world (until lobbyists for movies, music, etc. somehow don't control Congress lololol). Not really Riot's fault they are gifted with this ridiculous IP system and they use it to the fullest extent. I think this discussion though is kinda getting too far from what's happening here. Basically, Riot has the legal authority to do this and they used it in a reasonable way here. The main thing I'm afraid of is that it's not really a fair system and the more popular players are basically untouchable no matter what they do. How more popular do you need to get? He's on one of the most well-known pro teams and plays for them in every tournament. Not a fair system? 9 tribunal trips, 8 punishments. Any reasonable person would agree you should learn your lesson after that or something like this is going to happen, no matter who you are. I dunno I think Riot may be a lot more lenient with someone like Dyrus who has a huge fan following. They may still ban him if he goes super out of line but somehow I think he will get more chances. If that's the case and people are worried, then maybe they should create a player union like NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. There will always be a power struggle between the owners (Riot) and the players so there may as well be a central player organization to help each other out. I think that a player union would be really good going forward but I don't think it'll happen. Riot would likely be opposed to a player union and for good reasons. Unless it was a player union owned and operated by Riot which would be completely pointless lol.
Hmm, I don't think it's in Riot's best interest to oppose such a union. If another IWD incident happen the union can take care of the punishment and Riot doesn't have step in themselves. Riot's decision for IWD is one of the only certain ways to punish a pro player atm because you cannot trust a team to dish it out. All the teams are so scattered and have such different management structures that they can just say "it was handled internally" and not do anything. Once the players form a union, they can pressure each other to give the proper punishment.
On December 05 2012 09:59 HazMat wrote:
I'm actually pretty mad about this IWD thing. He was way nicer than Oddone and Saint in my eyes, and don't let me get started on Regi and Dyrus. But I guess the Tribunal said otherwise :/ (funny how they're all famous streamers and IWD isn't.)
Crumbzz jungle would make me really happy. Sadly there isn't a simple good toplane in NA, like people are worse than Crumbzz at that role. Wings would honestly be Dig's only hope.
The only difference between IWD and those other streamers I guess is most people won't report them or they leave no evidence. If they are raging on webcam or w/e but don't type in chat then there really isn't anything the tribunal can do.
On December 05 2012 10:07 Irave wrote:
What would a player union accomplish? Ok we want the ability to be toxic in solo q games forever and not risk getting banned. Riot is doing some insanely awesome things with their game. People wanting to find negative flaws because they don't treat their pros better than anyone else. Newsflash, even with the perm ban, he was treated better than the average gamer.
I assume the first thing to come to mind would be contract negotiations.
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Honestly, you can argue for the other people in my post but Dyrus should absolutely 100% be perma banned by now lol. zzzzz
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On December 05 2012 10:05 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:04 CrimsonLotus wrote:On December 05 2012 10:02 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 10:00 beefhamburger wrote:On December 05 2012 09:52 JBright wrote:On December 05 2012 09:41 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:39 Atokad wrote:On December 05 2012 09:33 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 09:28 overt wrote:On December 05 2012 09:21 Ketara wrote:
[quote]
This doesn't make any sense.
IWD is a public figure for the game and for Riot in general. The way he acts in solo queue has an impact on what people think of the game, and he should be punished appropriately.
Preventing him from participating in tournaments is an appropriate punishment just like it would be appropriate for a Disneyland employee to get fired from Disneyland for going around and telling people Disneyland is a terrible place. Except that's not how it works in any other eSport ever. Mostly because the developer's don't completely control the entire competitive scene. Valve might punish DotA2 players and not allow them to come to the international but they could still play at every other DotA2 event. Because Riot sponsors nearly every LAN and has incorporated every LAN into their championship series a ban from competitive play means that your career as a pro gamer is over. Like the level of control that Riot has on their scene is equivalent to what KeSPA had. Riot just hasn't abused their power. Yet. Yes this amount of control Riot has over the game is horrible policy and borderline unconstitutional. However, this is the system we are stuck with in the U.S. and most of the world (until lobbyists for movies, music, etc. somehow don't control Congress lololol). Not really Riot's fault they are gifted with this ridiculous IP system and they use it to the fullest extent. I think this discussion though is kinda getting too far from what's happening here. Basically, Riot has the legal authority to do this and they used it in a reasonable way here. The main thing I'm afraid of is that it's not really a fair system and the more popular players are basically untouchable no matter what they do. How more popular do you need to get? He's on one of the most well-known pro teams and plays for them in every tournament. Not a fair system? 9 tribunal trips, 8 punishments. Any reasonable person would agree you should learn your lesson after that or something like this is going to happen, no matter who you are. I dunno I think Riot may be a lot more lenient with someone like Dyrus who has a huge fan following. They may still ban him if he goes super out of line but somehow I think he will get more chances. If that's the case and people are worried, then maybe they should create a player union like NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. There will always be a power struggle between the owners (Riot) and the players so there may as well be a central player organization to help each other out. I don't think people/players are necessarily worried. Riot made it pretty clear you have to be a huge douche in-game AND disregard every single warning from both the players he played against/with and Riot themselves. Most people would have learned before they get to the point IWD did. Yeah but when every pro is salaried by the same group that's running the league you're all playing in a player's union makes sense. The organizing body has too much power. Yeah, it's not like Riot owns the game and bankrolls the scene. They are truly the evil guys here! It's not about evil or bad, it's about the fact that sometimes Riot and the players will have different interests, and if the players don't organize they have less influence on the decisions that deal with those issues.
And this case is an example of that in which way exactly?
There's no abuse of power going on here, the guy is an inmature, toxic douche and him and his team were warned about it and he still didn't change.
Riot has stated many times that the pro scene is a money drain and that they support it only as a way to promote the game itself. And one of the more legitimate criticism about LoL is how inmature and toxic the community is, so if Riot allows this type of individual to be a member of the pro scene the message to the community would be clear; it's ok to be an a-hole.
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Holy shit this is amazing.
Good job, too many pros act like complete ass wipes.
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On December 05 2012 10:07 Irave wrote:
What would a player union accomplish? Ok we want the ability to be toxic in solo q games forever and not risk getting banned. Riot is doing some insanely awesome things with their game. People wanting to find negative flaws because they don't treat their pros better than anyone else. Newsflash, even with the perm ban, he was treated better than the average gamer.
If you think Riot is never gonna make a questionable decision or one that is not fully in the interests of the players then I guess you don't need a union. I personally don't think that. I'm not downing on Riot but the fact that what is sometimes what's good for the company, or the fans, or the game, is not the same as what is best for the players.
Esports is a business. The employees in a business don't usually expect their company to maximize their happiness and wealth over other objectives, nor should they.
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I can't believe that Riot bans for BM and that this thread is full of people defending it. This Riot as a sheriff cleaning up the wild west that is the community is absolute bullshit.
It's like the nanny state of video games. The community should police itself by freezing out people that are legitimate assholes. We should also grow thicker skin or at least use the goddamn ignore features that exist in the game.
We should not depend on big brother Riot telling us who we can or cannot play with.
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On December 05 2012 10:09 HazMat wrote:
Honestly, you can argue for the other people in my post but Dyrus should absolutely 100% be perma banned by now lol. zzzzz
Yeah that's what I was thinking lol but it's hard to tell unless you have access to the same info Riot has and compare IWD and Dyrus's behavior. Basically we just don't know, and we have no power to get his information.
I don't understand why you guys hate the ideas of a player organization so much. I have already said in this thread that Riot's decision here is a good one. But this is also the business world and there is plenty Riot has done that a player's org would object to.
For example when they accused Dignitas and Crs of match-fixing (to decide winner of series) and of prize-splitting. I'm pretty sure Riot Redbeard fucked up there and made an accusation that was not substantiated by the facts. However the accusation was tossed out there, Crs and Dig denied it, and Riot swept the whole thing under the rug. Not very good for the players when they are accused of the worst thing you can do in esports and never get a clear answer back about it.
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On December 05 2012 10:17 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:09 HazMat wrote:
Honestly, you can argue for the other people in my post but Dyrus should absolutely 100% be perma banned by now lol. zzzzz Yeah that's what I was thinking lol but it's hard to tell unless you have access to the same info Riot has and compare IWD and Dyrus's behavior. Basically we just don't know, and we have no power to get his information. I don't understand why you guys hate the ideas of a player organization so much. I have already said in this thread that Riot's decision here is a good one. But this is also the business world and there is plenty Riot has done that a player's org would object to. For example when they accused Dignitas and Crs of match-fixing (to decide winner of series) and of prize-splitting. I'm pretty sure Riot Redbeard fucked up there and made an accusation that was not substantiated by the facts. However the accusation was tossed out there, Crs and Dig denied it, and Riot swept the whole thing under the rug. Not very good for the players when they are accused of the worst thing you can do in esports and never get a clear answer back about it.
Didnt know you were aware of every single thing communicated between Riot and Crs/Dig
People really need to stop believing that info on reddit or wherever is all there is.
Because companies really put all there private communication out on the street...
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On December 05 2012 10:12 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:07 Irave wrote:
What would a player union accomplish? Ok we want the ability to be toxic in solo q games forever and not risk getting banned. Riot is doing some insanely awesome things with their game. People wanting to find negative flaws because they don't treat their pros better than anyone else. Newsflash, even with the perm ban, he was treated better than the average gamer. If you think Riot is never gonna make a questionable decision or one that is not fully in the interests of the players then I guess you don't need a union. I personally don't think that. I'm not downing on Riot but the fact that what is sometimes what's good for the company, or the fans, or the game, is not the same as what is best for the players. Esports is a business. The employees in a business don't usually expect their company to maximize their happiness and wealth over other objectives, nor should they.
I don't see them doing anything to really hurt the players. It's getting paid to play in their league. The biggest show in town, other options don't exist. This is insane, and I imagine most people who get this privilege will love it. Highly unlikely that Riot would try and cut ties with MLG/IPL etc. They aren't going to force the players to stop streaming. Its what they have now, but with more tournaments, and money for all.
IWD fell to his own demise. He had plenty of warnings, they tried. He didn't improve, if Riot feels inclined to not want him playing their game, or to hire him so be it.
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On December 05 2012 10:21 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:17 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 10:09 HazMat wrote:
Honestly, you can argue for the other people in my post but Dyrus should absolutely 100% be perma banned by now lol. zzzzz Yeah that's what I was thinking lol but it's hard to tell unless you have access to the same info Riot has and compare IWD and Dyrus's behavior. Basically we just don't know, and we have no power to get his information. I don't understand why you guys hate the ideas of a player organization so much. I have already said in this thread that Riot's decision here is a good one. But this is also the business world and there is plenty Riot has done that a player's org would object to. For example when they accused Dignitas and Crs of match-fixing (to decide winner of series) and of prize-splitting. I'm pretty sure Riot Redbeard fucked up there and made an accusation that was not substantiated by the facts. However the accusation was tossed out there, Crs and Dig denied it, and Riot swept the whole thing under the rug. Not very good for the players when they are accused of the worst thing you can do in esports and never get a clear answer back about it. Didnt know you were aware of every single thing communicated between Riot and Crs/Dig People really need to stop believing that info on reddit or wherever is all there is. Because companies really put all there private communication out on the street...
What private conversation? Riot publicly accused Crs/Dig of something. Both Crs and Dig denied it. So . . . then nothing happens? Either Riot fucked up and should make a PUBLIC APOLOGY (something that a player union can pressure them on), or Crs and Dig (not just the players but the organizations) straight out lied after they match-fixed and prize-split in a tourney to secide NA rankings. But after this both teams were allowed to compete in NA finals.
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On December 05 2012 09:26 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 09:25 iinsom wrote:
I cant see how this is an issue?
He was warned sufficient times (8 is massive, at work i get 3 verbal warnings, 1 written warning them im out) and this is his job, then he should treat it as such and be a professional about it. Solo queue isn't his job.
But it has direct correlation with his "job" as hes now been banned from tournaments for a year.
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On December 05 2012 10:23 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 10:12 Slow Motion wrote:On December 05 2012 10:07 Irave wrote:
What would a player union accomplish? Ok we want the ability to be toxic in solo q games forever and not risk getting banned. Riot is doing some insanely awesome things with their game. People wanting to find negative flaws because they don't treat their pros better than anyone else. Newsflash, even with the perm ban, he was treated better than the average gamer. If you think Riot is never gonna make a questionable decision or one that is not fully in the interests of the players then I guess you don't need a union. I personally don't think that. I'm not downing on Riot but the fact that what is sometimes what's good for the company, or the fans, or the game, is not the same as what is best for the players. Esports is a business. The employees in a business don't usually expect their company to maximize their happiness and wealth over other objectives, nor should they. I don't see them doing anything to really hurt the players. It's getting paid to play in their league. The biggest show in town, other options don't exist. This is insane, and I imagine most people who get this privilege will love it. Highly unlikely that Riot would try and cut ties with MLG/IPL etc. They aren't going to force the players to stop streaming. Its what they have now, but with more tournaments, and money for all. IWD fell to his own demise. He had plenty of warnings, they tried. He didn't improve, if Riot feels inclined to not want him playing their game, or to hire him so be it.
So you don't think players should have any ability to negotiate contracts, rules for tourneys they don't agree with, etc.? Sure they can do this individually but they have little choice or power to negotiate unless they present some unity.
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EPT
