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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:44 JBright wrote: I thought the majority agreed with the ban. People are just questioning how Riot went about doing it. Is it the too much power thing? I thought Riot went on this appropriately. Moderate steps were taken before this final dunk. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:46 NeoIllusions wrote: I'll second, ketchup. If you don't agree with the ban, you are most likely viewing this the wrong way. IWD had multiple opportunities here to reform. This is not about whether or not some other pro should have been banned as well (insert Dyrus, Regi, whoever you want) but about IWD's individual case. It is safe to presume that if other pros have as many infractions as IWD (afaik, he has the most on NA, as a pro), they will be dealt with as well. In the exact same manner. As for Riot having too much power, I will somewhat agree. But I am much more in favor of a judicator present with too much power (in this case, Riot) than an entity unwilling/unable to act. After all, this is how things are run here on TeamLiquid... we all seem to like it here. The difference is TL is not my employer. Also I haven't seen many people in this thread arguing for IWD in this individual case. | ||
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:29 Pooshlmer wrote: Why do you think it is your inalienable right to curse people out? And have you SEEN what self-policed communities (e.g. the huge subreddits) turn into? Anyway, it ultimately comes down to a executive decision: either they believe having a nice environment will make them more money or the management really, really believes in it. That's the thing. Executive decision. While Riot may own the game and its servers, we, the community, are the ones who play it. We're the ones who made the game what it is. Without us, LoL would be nothing. Some forgotten f2p game played by Brazillians and Russians too poor to afford WoW subscriptions. We do not need executive decision from some shadowy central banning committee that answers to no one. We, the online gaming community in general, have been doing quite fine for about two decades now on self-policing, and I don't understand why this has to stop just because of the centralised servers that are part of the f2p model. Riot may have legal right to do whatever they want, but they don't have the moral right. They owe it to the community that made them what they are to decide for themselves. Running the game like an 80s Warsaw pact country is not the way to go. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
In the limited contact I have had with the Rioters who work in this area, they are very dedicated to their jobs and take this very seriously. It is unacceptable for a professional player to reach the state where they are banned by the Tribunal not once, not twice, not even thrice but nine time. Whether other players deserve to be banned or not is irrelevant to the decision at hand. That is another matter for another time, and something for the Tribunal and PBJ to decide upon. Today's decision is about IWillDominate. It is not acceptable to claim immaturity, professional status or any other excuse here. IWillDominate not only crossed the line but decided to charge right passed it with nary a consideration. It is completely within Riot's rights to remove a player from the professional scene if the player in questions has fundamentally ignored and disregarded the Summoner's Code. Furthermore, if the Tribunal has repeatedly rules they do not want you as part of their game, then you have no place in this game. It fact, to not remove IWillDominate would be completely hypocritical and undermine everything Riot Player Behavior & Justice has worked for during Season 2. | ||
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JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:47 NeoIllusions wrote: Is it the too much power thing? I thought Riot went on this appropriately. Moderate steps were taken before this final dunk. That seems to be it. I thought what Riot did was fine but people always want balance (or at least the perception of balance). Even though Riot communicates with the community a lot and take feedback, they are still the only ones who can do anything substantial. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:48 beef42 wrote: That's the thing. Executive decision. While Riot may own the game and its servers, we, the community, are the ones who play it. We're the ones who made the game what it is. Without us, LoL would be nothing. Some forgotten f2p game played by Brazillians and Russians too poor to afford WoW subscriptions. We do not need executive decision from some shadowy central banning committee that answers to no one. We, the online gaming community in general, have been doing quite fine for about two decades now on self-policing, and I don't understand why this has to stop just because of the centralised servers that are part of the f2p model. Riot may have legal right to do whatever they want, but they don't have the moral right. They owe it to the community that made them what they are to decide for themselves. Running the game like an 80s Warsaw pact country is not the way to go. Nine confirmations from the Tribunal for a ban (which is a community driven initiative), multiple warnings and temporary bans, direct contact with Dignitas and a failure to reform gives Riot a complete mandate from the community and moral obligation to deal with this exceptional case of a breach in the Summoner's Code. I do not see how this is some shadowy conspiracy. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:48 Slow Motion wrote: The difference is TL is not my employer. Also I haven't seen many people in this thread arguing for IWD in this individual case. How does Riot being LoL pro players' employer change anything? In the real world, don't piss off your boss otherwise you get the pink slip. I'm not seeing the prob. @.@ | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Life lesson folks: Don't be a dick. Jeez, it's not really difficult. He didn't need to act like a saint, just normal. Instead he acted like dick, was warned several times only to act even more like a dick, and he got punished. Well deserved. | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:32 NeoIllusions wrote: Dunno why this isn't the resounding reaction from TL. I am disappoint. Me, too. I always thought the TL crowd were more adult and could use their head. Riot has a lot of power that is true. As long as they dont abuse it its fine for me. In particular with bans the past shows that Riot was never wrong with permbans. In addition Riot made it clear if you treat your other playmates as trash you will be punished. IWD already got a little pro player treatment. Riot contacted Dignitas months ahead and nothing happened. Thats whay they decided to ban him which is justified. People who say that he just defended himself should start thinking because this case was probably viewed by more than one Riot employee. Just mindblowing how many people think that this ban is undeserved. I applaud Riot for this decision because Proplayers should always be rolemodels and they should act like it. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:52 NeoIllusions wrote: How does Riot being LoL pro players' employer change anything? In the real world, don't piss off your boss otherwise you get the pink slip. I'm not seeing the prob. @.@ Because in the real world the boss does not have all the power. The boss cannot set incredibly arbitrary rules without damaging his own business. There are other jobs I could find if the boss does not provide benefits to working there that are at least comparable to the same jobs in my industry. In captured industries like this one, where the employees don't really have many other options, the boss does have all the power. That's why in the real world, in situations like this, you tend to see unionization. This is the same situation because these pro players only have the skill to play LoL and not other esports. If they don't like something they cannot easily go to find a similar job with their existing skills. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:48 beef42 wrote: That's the thing. Executive decision. While Riot may own the game and its servers, we, the community, are the ones who play it. We're the ones who made the game what it is. Without us, LoL would be nothing. Some forgotten f2p game played by Brazillians and Russians too poor to afford WoW subscriptions. We do not need executive decision from some shadowy central banning committee that answers to no one. We, the online gaming community in general, have been doing quite fine for about two decades now on self-policing, and I don't understand why this has to stop just because of the centralised servers that are part of the f2p model. Riot may have legal right to do whatever they want, but they don't have the moral right. They owe it to the community that made them what they are to decide for themselves. Running the game like an 80s Warsaw pact country is not the way to go. Professional sports leagues fine and suspend players all the time for bad behaviour. They all have a committee which decides this and not a 'fan-vote' to decide. I am not sure how this is different. He got multiple warnings and kept doing it. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
It's not hard to imagine what kind of flaming a player in a video game would throw out at other people and IWD was tribunaled >>8<< times before. If you got a warning from your work place 8 times for acting like a douche, what would be your course of action and would you deny their right to terminate your employment? And what court would rule in your favor if you'd take it up there, lol. O well, maybe in good ol' AMURICA. Wouldn't happen in the civilized world (don't hit me neo). | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:48 beef42 wrote: That's the thing. Executive decision. While Riot may own the game and its servers, we, the community, are the ones who play it. We're the ones who made the game what it is. Without us, LoL would be nothing. Some forgotten f2p game played by Brazillians and Russians too poor to afford WoW subscriptions. We do not need executive decision from some shadowy central banning committee that answers to no one. We, the online gaming community in general, have been doing quite fine for about two decades now on self-policing, and I don't understand why this has to stop just because of the centralised servers that are part of the f2p model. Riot may have legal right to do whatever they want, but they don't have the moral right. They owe it to the community that made them what they are to decide for themselves. Running the game like an 80s Warsaw pact country is not the way to go. Are you really comparing a gaming company banning a toxic pro douche from their game to a communist dictatorship? Talk about massive hyperbole. This isn't some libertarian cause to fight against Big Brother. It's a private company enforcing the rules they've set up for their product. The community doesn't suffer from this, the only one who suffer is the toxic guy who ruined the game for dozens of his fellow players. There's no abuse of power nor any shady conspiracy. Such level of paranoia and hostility towards a company makes me wonder why would you be playing their game in the first place. For all we know they're infecting us with keyloggers to try and steal our credit card information since they're so shady, right? | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:55 Slow Motion wrote: Because in the real world the boss does not have all the power. The boss cannot set incredibly arbitrary rules without damaging his own business. There are other jobs I could find if the boss does not provide benefits to working there that are at least comparable to the same jobs in my industry. In captured industries like this one, where the employees don't really have many other options, the boss does have all the power. That's why in the real world, in situations like this, you tend to see unionization. This is the same situation because these pro players only have the skill to play LoL and not other esports. If they don't like something they cannot easily go to find a similar job with their existing skills. What is incredibly arbitrary about the Summoner's Code? It read like basic English to me. General idea? Don't be a douche when you play League. A "boss" that doesn't provide benefits? Are we on the same page? Riot is talking about paying teams a monthly salary for Season 3. Please find me another gaming dev who plans on paying teams a salary too. You talk as if Riot's expectation are too high or something, when all they're simply asking for the "norm". And no, trolling and fucking idiotic behavior that is used to describe the MOBA/ARTS genre should not be the norm here. All Riot is doing is asking us to be better gamers online. Is it that hard? Your only skill is to play LoL? Don't fuck up your chances at the game then. | ||
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Xevious
United States2086 Posts
right in the feels | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:55 Slow Motion wrote: Because in the real world the boss does not have all the power. The boss cannot set incredibly arbitrary rules without damaging his own business. There are other jobs I could find if the boss does not provide benefits to working there that are at least comparable to the same jobs in my industry. In captured industries like this one, where the employees don't really have many other options, the boss does have all the power. That's why in the real world, in situations like this, you tend to see unionization. This is the same situation because these pro players only have the skill to play LoL and not other esports. If they don't like something they cannot easily go to find a similar job with their existing skills. I do not understand what unionisation has to do with this. Riot has been very clear that they will take action against people who consistently appear in the Tribunal and are determined to be extremely toxic and require to be banned. Furthermore, every professional player agrees to follow the Summoner's Code. IWillDominate has not followed this and was dealt with accordingly. I see no mismatch in what has occurred here. Saying that his skills are non-transferable is irrelevant here. It is not Riot's obligation to provide IWillDominate a job. At the same time, this was not a sudden decision on their part and IWillDomintate was given chances to reform. IWillDominate is old enough to vote, he is old enough to drink, old enough to drive a car and therefore old enough to make decisions that will affect his career. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
He deserved his ban. Also, there's nothing arbitrary about the decision. It was a steadily growing issue that got him repeatedly warned. He had ample opportunity to stop being a giant douche, but didn't. I wish Riot would ban more "big" names like him. Considering what it takes to get repeatedly actioned, you damn well deserve a substantial ban by the time you've racked up as many infractions as him. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:01 Canucklehead wrote: Does anyone have his statement from reddit? I heard he wrote one, but that thread is way too long to find it. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/14a5ms/iwilldominate_banned_from_league_of_legends/c7b8mmq Today i was informed by riot that I will be suspended for 1 year of the Season 3 Championship Series. Although the ruling is extremely tough, I agree with riot that player sportsmanship is a serious matter and I want to apologize to anyone that i've offended in game and my fans. I fully understand that pro players are viewed as role models and should act accordingly. I'd like to thank my teammates and the whole Dignitas organization for the amazing year that i have spent with them and wish the team the best of luck going into season 3. Personally I will not let this end my dreams of being a professional league of legends player. During my suspension I intend to keep my mechanics in top form and remain a competitive jungler. After my suspension i hope to rejoin the championship series and once again compete at the highest level. League of Legends is my life, and I will do everything in my power to play as long as possible. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:48 Slow Motion wrote: The difference is TL is not my employer. Also I haven't seen many people in this thread arguing for IWD in this individual case. An employer can EASILY terminate employment over this. People have lost their jobs over smaller things said on facebook. This isn't even that petty - this is Riot's game, and Riot is terminating the employment of a player of the game because they want their salaried professional players to be role models - and that is not a new message from Riot. | ||
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