On November 16 2012 02:48 Cuddle wrote: How do I jungle!?
I play maokai, malphite or jax in jungle and I never do well. I don't know when I should be doing what or why. Directions to a good guide (preferably not champion specific) and what character should I get for my next 6300 if I want a solid jungle?
Honestly Mao is probably one of the easiest junglers at the moment. His CC is point and click making ganks pretty easy to pull off. Do you just have problems when you gank? When do things not go good haha?
Honestly, I feel so insecure when trying to decide where to go. When is a lane good/bad for ganking? What routs should I take in what situations when going for a gank, (when ganking bot e.g. when do I go through lane, when through river, when through tri?). How do I know if I should stay and try again after failed gank? Do I go wolves, blue, wraiths, red, wolves, wraiths or should I try to gank somewhere in there? I'm usually low after clear, do I gank with 1/3 health remaining or do I b? After buying, do I go gank or get back to farm? (wraiths/wolves are usually up)
Lots of questions and no confidence in my decisions.
Confidence comes from experience. If you're trying to learn to jungle, or any role for that matter, don't freeze up out of fear that you might make the wrong decision. Taking chances, making mistakes, and dealing with the resulting mess is the best way to learn.
The hardest part about jungling is that there are a million factors which change the answer to every question you could possibly ask. Play as much as possible, conscript any experienced junglers you know to help you, and watch pro jungler streams (Lilballz, CloudTemplar best choices when they're available) if you're really serious about improving quickly.
Regarding Nami, we call Leona a "support" because she's "viable" bot lane and can thrive on low gold environments, but all things considered she doesn't "support" her AD carry in the defensive sense of the role—as in, she doesn't really benefit him much more than by "being there" (ie he isn't 1v2 and harder to zone). She brings stuff to the lane, but it's aggression. She's got cc, but it's melee range or her lack of disengage makes her go all-in if she uses it. In a sense, her most "support-y" spell is her ultimate, because it can be used to protect people, involves less risk, etc. (w/o regards to the cooldown).
Taric's stun can be used defensively and he's got a defensive aura/heal, Morgana has a shield to defend her ally, same with Lux, etc. Riot's "support" is a champion with abilities than can be used on allies to grant them benefits (apart from Teemo, I don't get why they gave him that tag), seemingly. So the fact that Nami can heal makes her a support.
That said, I was happy at the lack of cleavage on her art, then I read the bit about the splash art being different from that. Picture me sad.
On November 16 2012 02:48 Cuddle wrote: How do I jungle!?
I play maokai, malphite or jax in jungle and I never do well. I don't know when I should be doing what or why. Directions to a good guide (preferably not champion specific) and what character should I get for my next 6300 if I want a solid jungle?
Depends a lot of what, specifically, is your problem. I find Mao easy to play because his ganks are good, he doesn't get set back too much once he gets rolling (unless his laners take the rest of his jungle, which will starve him hard), so you can force plays yourself through early ganks then adapt to the outcome. Jax would be much harder to play well because if he fails ganks he'll be much more behind than Mao, and the difference between lane farm and jungle farm affects him much more.
Oy, I forgot to close my tab on that splash art. Janna and Cass are just awful, there's no sense in covering Elise just to cover her, I like Ahri's new skirt but the top was fine (actually it looks pretty great), Morgana looks great, and MF is *supposed* to be slutty and crazy.
I'm not sure what this whole modesty movement is, but it's stupid. Unless you're going to improve on the art design, don't waste your time just covering up the women. Or, might as well take the height and muscles away from the males as well. Can't wait to see the new short, bald, fat Twisted Fate.
Teemo is definitely a support in the sense that Riot defines it. His shrooms are for control objectives!
This is why they list Galio as a support and Zilean as a support and even Shen. Their primary focus is on assisting the team through shields/revives/boost/etc. Galio and Shen also have a tank tag since they can eat a lot of damage themselves. Leona is thus a tank and not a support because she's about CC+disruption rather than heals+shields.
So the new champ will be a support in the same sense that Zilean or Kayle can be. That means she doesn't have to go bot lane and be a 0 CS champion, which is what the meta defines to be supports.
On November 16 2012 02:48 Cuddle wrote: How do I jungle!?
I play maokai, malphite or jax in jungle and I never do well. I don't know when I should be doing what or why. Directions to a good guide (preferably not champion specific) and what character should I get for my next 6300 if I want a solid jungle?
Honestly Mao is probably one of the easiest junglers at the moment. His CC is point and click making ganks pretty easy to pull off. Do you just have problems when you gank? When do things not go good haha?
Honestly, I feel so insecure when trying to decide where to go. When is a lane good/bad for ganking? What routs should I take in what situations when going for a gank, (when ganking bot e.g. when do I go through lane, when through river, when through tri?). How do I know if I should stay and try again after failed gank? Do I go wolves, blue, wraiths, red, wolves, wraiths or should I try to gank somewhere in there? I'm usually low after clear, do I gank with 1/3 health remaining or do I b? After buying, do I go gank or get back to farm? (wraiths/wolves are usually up)
Lots of questions and no confidence in my decisions.
then, clear jungle and go straight for top. Focus on top and mid while clearing.
Only gank bot when you know they dont have a laneward in the brush and then lanegank trough the brush, otherise its a waste of time since bot is just teeming with wards. There are very few occasions where ganking bot is worth it. Especially in lower elo you have to be worried that your teammates dont follow up properly and you end up dying since its 2 people attacking you instead of just 1 like in other lanes. Its very dangerous to camp bot, you usually dont know if its warded, so if you wait for too long, the enemy jungler and even their mid will come and kill you if you sit on a ward.
When you get more experienced, you will start to notice situations where you think the enemy jungler will try to gank, so be nearby and get doublekills and doublebuffs. Ignore the cries of botlane for ganks while doing that.
amumu is a very good jungler for lower elo for example since not only are his ganks strong, you can initiate fights with him and have ae CC.
But really, the most important thing is to ignore all the crying for ganks, especially when you get more experienced.
oh yeah, and if you see the enemy jungler somewhere and you have nothing to do, go into his jungle and steal stuff. If you think he is doing a greedy slow route, go to his red after you got yours (if you trust your team to follow up).
Kayle a support. Lolllllllll Sorry, i always found that hilarious, even when I wasn't lvl 30. But yeah, riot's definitions are a bit stubborn and weird at times.
On November 16 2012 03:17 Crownlol wrote: Oy, I forgot to close my tab on that splash art. Janna and Cass are just awful, there's no sense in covering Elise just to cover her, I like Ahri's new skirt but the top was fine (actually it looks pretty great), Morgana looks great, and MF is *supposed* to be slutty and crazy.
I'm not sure what this whole modesty movement is, but it's stupid. Unless you're going to improve on the art design, don't waste your time just covering up the women. Or, might as well take the height and muscles away from the males as well. Can't wait to see the new short, bald, fat Twisted Fate.
On November 16 2012 02:50 kainzero wrote: whenever they talk about how a hero should be played a certain way, i never listen to them.
i feel like they have no idea what they're really designing for.
funny how they mention janna lulu and sona. sona is stuck bot lane, janna is now a niche mid laner because they nerfed her, and they nerfed lulu so that you can't put her everywhere.
god forbid they let you play characters in more than one role/lane.
You really haven't seen the wonder of jungle Lulu have you... poor, sheltered soul
On November 16 2012 02:53 Lounge wrote: I think in comparing her to Janna/Lulu/Sona they were just trying to say "people that like to play these supports will like her"
no, they were trying to make a distinction between "support characters" and "the role of support".
so they were saying that janna/lulu/sona are support characters in that they have abilities that enhance or protect other heroes.
(which is kiiiinda dumb because leona's passive augments damage, and alistar has a heal. and janna has two abilities (shield and the heal from ult) and a passive that are assist abilities, while tornado and zephyr are a knockup and a slow, and i dunno how that differs from alistar.)
the thing is if you call them support characters and not support roles it makes it seem as if they can be played elsewhere, but the 3 heroes they listed in janna/lulu/sona are practically locked into the support role anyway.
On November 16 2012 03:28 GhandiEAGLE wrote: You really haven't seen the wonder of jungle Lulu have you... poor, sheltered soul
perhaps. i tried on-hit jungle lulu but i had trouble with sustain in the jungle and i had to port back a lot.
On November 16 2012 03:15 Alaric wrote: That said, I was happy at the lack of cleavage on her art, then I read the bit about the splash art being different from that. Picture me sad.
While she may not have ginormous breasts in that concept art she's showing all the cleavage she possibly can, not to mention morganna-level kidney deficiency and back problems (though she's a fish I guess).
IMO the concept art is good, I don't really mind, but Riot will always have a lot of barbie doll champs floating around and when their champs aren't barbie dolls they'll cave to requests to make them dolls, Kayle and creepy Teen Annie excluding.
On November 16 2012 02:48 Cuddle wrote: How do I jungle!?
I play maokai, malphite or jax in jungle and I never do well. I don't know when I should be doing what or why. Directions to a good guide (preferably not champion specific) and what character should I get for my next 6300 if I want a solid jungle?
Honestly Mao is probably one of the easiest junglers at the moment. His CC is point and click making ganks pretty easy to pull off. Do you just have problems when you gank? When do things not go good haha?
Honestly, I feel so insecure when trying to decide where to go. When is a lane good/bad for ganking? What routs should I take in what situations when going for a gank, (when ganking bot e.g. when do I go through lane, when through river, when through tri?). How do I know if I should stay and try again after failed gank? Do I go wolves, blue, wraiths, red, wolves, wraiths or should I try to gank somewhere in there? I'm usually low after clear, do I gank with 1/3 health remaining or do I b? After buying, do I go gank or get back to farm? (wraiths/wolves are usually up)
Lots of questions and no confidence in my decisions.
Confidence comes from experience. If you're trying to learn to jungle, or any role for that matter, don't freeze up out of fear that you might make the wrong decision. Taking chances, making mistakes, and dealing with the resulting mess is the best way to learn.
The hardest part about jungling is that there are a million factors which change the answer to every question you could possibly ask. Play as much as possible, conscript any experienced junglers you know to help you, and watch pro jungler streams (Lilballz, CloudTemplar best choices when they're available) if you're really serious about improving quickly.
Off topic, but this is all I could think of when you said that:
Moderately on topic - I <3 new supports. Time to grind out IP like crazy (or just put in MORE RP for skin bundles...)
On November 16 2012 03:22 LaNague wrote: for jungling, ignore crying teammates.
then, clear jungle and go straight for top. Focus on top and mid while clearing.
Only gank bot when you know they dont have a laneward in the brush and then lanegank trough the brush, otherise its a waste of time since bot is just teeming with wards. There are very few occasions where ganking bot is worth it. Especially in lower elo you have to be worried that your teammates dont follow up properly and you end up dying since its 2 people attacking you instead of just 1 like in other lanes. Its very dangerous to camp bot, you usually dont know if its warded, so if you wait for too long, the enemy jungler and even their mid will come and kill you if you sit on a ward.
When you get more experienced, you will start to notice situations where you think the enemy jungler will try to gank, so be nearby and get doublekills and doublebuffs. Ignore the cries of botlane for ganks while doing that.
amumu is a very good jungler for lower elo for example since not only are his ganks strong, you can initiate fights with him and have ae CC.
But really, the most important thing is to ignore all the crying for ganks, especially when you get more experienced.
oh yeah, and if you see the enemy jungler somewhere and you have nothing to do, go into his jungle and steal stuff. If you think he is doing a greedy slow route, go to his red after you got yours (if you trust your team to follow up).
Lots of times you won't have the luxury of ganking after clear, for example you wanna gank top asap, and should usually do it after lv3 double buff no matter what side you are unless you absolutely cannot win a 2v2 top.
Most of the time the support won't ward both dragon and tribrush early because he needs to stay in lane for a long time. You can go through the path that's not warded to gank. If the support wards in between tri and river, going through tri is fine. If bot is pushed, doesn't matter if they have 10 wards around bot, you can still gank because they won't react fast enough.
On November 16 2012 03:20 xes wrote: Teemo is definitely a support in the sense that Riot defines it. His shrooms are for control objectives!
This is why they list Galio as a support and Zilean as a support and even Shen. Their primary focus is on assisting the team through shields/revives/boost/etc. Galio and Shen also have a tank tag since they can eat a lot of damage themselves. Leona is thus a tank and not a support because she's about CC+disruption rather than heals+shields.
So the new champ will be a support in the same sense that Zilean or Kayle can be. That means she doesn't have to go bot lane and be a 0 CS champion, which is what the meta defines to be supports.
I think Teemo is the only one in the whole list that doesn't directly benefit his teammates through his spells. That's why I found it strange.
Runes for Mao: AS reds, armor yellow, MR blue and MS quints. Masteries 0/21/9 (I've used page 7 from Maokai thread for guidance).
Thanks everyone for answering. I understand that it's difficult to answer such general question. I've read them all and I think I'll stick to Mao until I feel comfortable enough to try someone with higher risk, higher reward playstyle.
I should probably spend less time bot, early, both because of the wards but also because I feel a poor initiation from me bot often result me in a 1v2 situation where my team mates don't follow up. If I engage poorly (early) mid or bot, I can probably get away.
So, wolves, blue, wraiths, red -> gank top and/or mid. I'll think I'll stick with this for now.
I learnt a lot about ganks by forcing myself to gank as soon as 3 (and 2 when match-ups allow) as Maokai, and continually do it as soon as I see opportunities. I still don't do it enough on other champs (Mundo comes to mind, must be my most jungled champ along with Mao now; and Amumu too), and I barely gank bot which I tend to neglect especially if I'm purple side because I can barely farm there, and not converting a gank means a lot of lost farm (if I burn a flash I tend to go back, farm a camp or two, then gank again).
Snowballing mid and especially top I can do, but bot... meh. Gives me so much trouble when jungling. Esp. purple side. :< I may have more success by maybe ganking mid more then telling the laner to come with me and 4v2 their botlane, or by persuading them to show me their wards, so I know when I can gank bot through their tribrush, but most of the time they don't tell and I run the risk of being ganged upon in their jungle when I try to go through their wraiths. Is it a common problem or should I just man up, work on my map awareness and learn to camp bot too?
EPT
