EPT[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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jadoth
694 Posts
On November 12 2012 09:42 AsnSensation wrote: do people actually think zyra support is too strong? I think she's just a solid support but since Riot doesn't like champions being playable in multiple roles ( intended supps played as ap mid) I think they will nerf her eventually because she was intended as an ap carry. Nerfing her just because she was wasn't intended as a support would be really dumb by roit. They already release way way less supports then other roles so when they make a good support by accident they should be happy about it. That said I wouldn't be surprised if they did it anyway. | ||
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
She'd be a good support even if her plants did around half their current damage, and she didn't have her passive, just because her ult and bush control capabilities are that good (utility+range). Adding in the damage, she's superb. Edit: I do agree that her being playable as support is far from a bad thing though. It gives variety and since we see far less rotation between mid champs compared to supports in termes of popularity I'm really fine with her seeing light that way (I do hate playing against her mid and think she still has way too much even in that role, but that's not relevant to my liking of her being played support regardless of pending buffs/nerfs). | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
heh wrong thread. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:16 ticklishmusic wrote: Eh, Morgana support isn't absolutely terrible. She's a fairly viable counterpick against a bot lane with a lot of CC or poke, or an overall magic damage heavy team. Plus, dark binding plus soil aren't too bad, I don't make her work very well, but that might just because I'm bad with her. I forget what team and what tournament but a team ran her a few time recently to counter skarnar ult. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 12 2012 09:51 Craton wrote: Except her needing nerfs isn't just because it's not "intended," it's because she does too much with too little. Except supports have to do a lot with a little. The fact that Riot didn't anticipate Zyra support really kinda shows how little they understand the 5th farm position in this game. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:16 ticklishmusic wrote: Eh, Morgana support isn't absolutely terrible. She's a fairly viable counterpick against a bot lane with a lot of CC or poke, or an overall magic damage heavy team. Plus, dark binding plus soil isn't too bad, I don't make her work very well, but that might just because I'm bad with her. Pretty sure you don't skill your W at all. Support Morg is fine I guess, but you need a comp to make it work. Except if your ADC is Aphromoo and just plays Draven, then whatever. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:37 Shiv. wrote: Pretty sure you don't skill your W at all. Support Morg is fine I guess, but you need a comp to make it work. Except if your ADC is Aphromoo and just plays Draven, then whatever. W is useful midgame both for the MR shred when you have an AP its useful for, and for situations where you can use it to pick up some minor farm. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 12 2012 09:49 jadoth wrote: Nerfing her just because she was wasn't intended as a support would be really dumb by roit. They already release way way less supports then other roles so when they make a good support by accident they should be happy about it. That said I wouldn't be surprised if they did it anyway. Remember AP Soraka? Q's MR and E ratio nerf. Remember AP Janna? W ratio nerf. Remember AP Lulu? Q ratio nerf, twice. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:37 Shiv. wrote: Pretty sure you don't skill your W at all. Support Morg is fine I guess, but you need a comp to make it work. Except if your ADC is Aphromoo and just plays Draven, then whatever. Yeah, W is last priority but its not too bad to have a point of. Q->W still hits pretty hard even with no AP, and it helps push the wave if you need/ heals you for a bit b/c of your passive. Actually having free CC shield would probably be good on Dravenmoo. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:35 cLutZ wrote: Except supports have to do a lot with a little. The fact that Riot didn't anticipate Zyra support really kinda shows how little they understand the 5th farm position in this game. Champs Riot didn't expect to be supports that are played as such: Alistar, Blitzcrank, Leona, Nunu, Zyra Champs Riot expected to be supports that aren't played as such: Karma, Kayle, Zilean Basically the supports that Riot "got right" are Janna, Lulu, Sona, Soraka, Taric. And of those, all but Taric were playable as other roles, then subsequently had those alternative roles nerfed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:45 TheYango wrote: Champs Riot didn't expect to be supports that are played as such: Alistar, Blitzcrank, Leona, Nunu, Zyra Champs Riot expected to be supports that aren't played as such: Karma, Kayle, Zilean Basically the supports that Riot "got right" are Janna, Lulu, Sona, Soraka, Taric. And of those, all but Taric were playable as other roles, then subsequently had those alternative roles nerfed. So...you are agreeing? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Yes, I'm providing further examples to support your point. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Actually, more laughable than Riot's idea of support champ design is their idea of support itemization. I recall them trying to put the original Morello's across as a support item--go figure a support isn't going to spend ~1500 gold buying AP. There's a difference between supports benefiting from AP (most do), and supports being willing to spend money on it (most don't). I guess at the time they had some idea of supports being a poor man's AP carry, but that's really a completely gross misrepresentation of what supports do. On November 12 2012 10:49 Alaric wrote: On the other hand, I have trouble picturing Riot not anticipating Leona as a support in the current meta, since they gave her a passive that explicitly requires an ally nearby to be useful—hence, a jungler (while her kit is all but designed for it) or a duolaner. If you recall Phreak's spotlight, IIRC they had her played as a duo laner that got farm in the duo lane. Or alternatively as some sort of solo lane bruiser. | ||
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:35 cLutZ wrote: Except supports have to do a lot with a little. Which is irrelevant to her doing too much. | ||
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
On November 11 2012 22:08 Slayer91 wrote: people forgot he existed sunfire renek is pretty bad but if you're really far behind it might be ok i liked the guide section when I was new I always used them every time I picked a new hero. Smash has written tons of good guides maybe I should write a few when S3 comes. +1, I'm sure you'd be excellent at making guides. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 12 2012 10:51 TheYango wrote: Yes, I'm providing further examples to support your point. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Actually, more laughable than Riot's idea of support champ design is their idea of support itemization. I recall them trying to put the original Morello's across as a support item--go figure a support isn't going to spend ~1500 gold buying AP. There's a difference between supports benefiting from AP (most do), and supports being willing to spend money on it (most don't). I guess at the time they had some idea of supports being a poor man's AP carry, but that's really a completely gross misrepresentation of what supports do. If you recall Phreak's spotlight, IIRC they had her played as a duo laner that got farm in the duo lane. Or alternatively as some sort of solo lane bruiser. Duo lane leona with a support is actually really strong because you don't need to play around waiting for you and your ad to be in a perfect position anytime you go for a cs you can also just go in with E and have a support to back you up. Janna leona is really strong, I'm sure taric leona and other stuff works too. Leona with max cdr and tank items or trinity force if you're ahead does LOTS of damage too. | ||
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