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On November 01 2012 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think people should realize that it's entirely possible they dont know the reason they are not higher elo, hence posting replays and having others spectate you would help more than trying to self analyze and almost always coming to the wrong conclusions.
Maybe I just underestimate the depths of some people's boredom, but I highly doubt that a better player would really want to take the time to sit and watch a shitty player's game and tell them what they're doing wrong.
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i would watch replays so less people make posts that are like OMFG I CARRIED SO HARD BUT LOST IDK HOW 2 GET OUT OF ELO HELL SHITTY TEAMMATES QQ
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On November 01 2012 04:17 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 04:13 Dan HH wrote:On November 01 2012 04:02 tobi9999 wrote:
I have almost 1000 ranked games played and i'm like 1800 elo.
I've found that I've never really been flamed unless I type something that somehow incites people to flame me.
99% of the time no one will flame you if you don't type much into chat. >: Guess you don't jungle. that's actually kinda true. In my experience, at least 70% of the time when a lane is losing i see people blaming the jungler and flipping their shit, and even if the jungler doesn't respond, a lot of the time they keep ragging on him anyways. I usually end up muting those guys tho.
I remember this one game which I was playing the top lane and got slightly behind. An enemy Lee Sin came to gank me, which I survived and proceeded to ping the Lee Sin to tell my teammates that he was there. Then my friendly jungler thought I was asking him to gank for me and got really mad and started to lecture me about how "he can't be everywhere at once" blah blah blah. It was rather ironic.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think people should realize that it's entirely possible they dont know the reason they are not higher elo, hence posting replays and having others spectate you would help more than trying to self analyze and almost always coming to the wrong conclusions.
At the same time, I think something self-learned has much higher value and has the potential to stay with you longer than something someone just told you how to do.
If someone watches a replay and gives a laundry list of what you did wrong, lots of people will forget the majority of that within a week or two. But if it's their own trial and error that results in their improvement, that improvement will stick.
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is dyrius/tsm paid to promote smite or he just really likes this game?
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On November 01 2012 05:49 kongoline wrote:
is dyrius/tsm paid to promote smite or he just really likes this game?
I think they were 100% paid. The amount of players they brought in from these streams is unimaginable.
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On November 01 2012 05:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think people should realize that it's entirely possible they dont know the reason they are not higher elo, hence posting replays and having others spectate you would help more than trying to self analyze and almost always coming to the wrong conclusions. At the same time, I think something self-learned has much higher value and has the potential to stay with you longer than something someone just told you how to do. If someone watches a replay and gives a laundry list of what you did wrong, lots of people will forget the majority of that within a week or two. But if it's their own trial and error that results in their improvement, that improvement will stick.
it would certainly be a lot faster if someone told you what you did wrong, replay reviews are tremendously helpful, everyone knows that from bw
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United States47024 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 05:49 TheYango wrote:On November 01 2012 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think people should realize that it's entirely possible they dont know the reason they are not higher elo, hence posting replays and having others spectate you would help more than trying to self analyze and almost always coming to the wrong conclusions. At the same time, I think something self-learned has much higher value and has the potential to stay with you longer than something someone just told you how to do. If someone watches a replay and gives a laundry list of what you did wrong, lots of people will forget the majority of that within a week or two. But if it's their own trial and error that results in their improvement, that improvement will stick. it would certainly be a lot faster if someone told you what you did wrong, replay reviews are tremendously helpful, everyone knows that from bw
Yes, but I think self-review does more than having someone watching the replay for you.
Most players' ability to evaluate an observed game isn't so below the rest of their skill that they can't find their own mistakes watching their own replays. A lot of those QQ posts are borne out of people raging right after a game that they haven't gone back to review, or that they simply wouldn't review either way.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think people should realize that it's entirely possible they dont know the reason they are not higher elo, hence posting replays and having others spectate you would help more than trying to self analyze and almost always coming to the wrong conclusions. At the same time, I think something self-learned has much higher value and has the potential to stay with you longer than something someone just told you how to do. If someone watches a replay and gives a laundry list of what you did wrong, lots of people will forget the majority of that within a week or two. But if it's their own trial and error that results in their improvement, that improvement will stick.
Considering how little time it takes to read what someone said you did wrong, I'd say having only a few percent off of it stick to you makes it a time efficient and for some also entertaining way to get better. Of course playing has to follow, but having someone analyze your replays for you is a great great way to learn very quickly. imo.
So yeah, if you have a game that particularly annoys your mind, it's good to post replay along with your frustration should you want to learn something extra. Maybe we could make a thread for it? Idk, I am a bit occupied and tired now so I'll leave it to someone else.
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United States47024 Posts
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What's 1400 elo mechanics ? lol... Because 80 cs at 10 min is easy even for scrub like me, this game is nothing about mecanics, just about when how to engage / agressiv / how to help your mate, when not to, how to dragon, how to play with and without team, etc. Even what appears to be a pure mecanical aspect of the game, like farming, is only knowledge because you have to understand when to farm, when to team group, when to do jungle without putting your jungler behind, etc.
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anyone can get perfect cs under no pressure, but there is higher mechanics when you do it vs better laning opponents .
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On November 01 2012 05:58 WhiteDog wrote:
What's 1400 elo mechanics ? lol... Because 80 cs at 10 min is easy even for scrub like me, this game is nothing about mecanics, just about when how to engage / agressiv / how to help your mate, when not to, how to dragon, how to play with and without team, etc. Even what appears to be a pure mecanical aspect of the game, like farming, is only knowledge because you have to understand when to farm, when to team group, when to do jungle without putting your jungler behind, etc.
Positioning and movement a teamfight is mechanics, one that varies widely between an 800 player and a 2000 player. So is managing mana, things like wardjumping on Lee/Kat/Jax, landing skillshots, etc. Farming is one thing, those are generally not things that a low ELO player can do as well as a high ELO player or even close.
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On November 01 2012 06:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
anyone can get perfect cs under no pressure, but there is higher mechanics when you do it vs better laning opponents .
Not really, this is knowledge not mecanics. Knowing when to play agressiv, when to go jungle without losing cs, etc. It has nothing to do with SC2's mecanics, not that I consider the game easier because it is not - it's a team game.
But mecanics is not what gives you elo. The basic mecanics are expected for every one at a certain point.
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On November 01 2012 05:58 WhiteDog wrote:
What's 1400 elo mechanics ? lol... Because 80 cs at 10 min is easy even for scrub like me, this game is nothing about mecanics, just about when how to engage / agressiv / how to help your mate, when not to, how to dragon, how to play with and without team, etc. Even what appears to be a pure mecanical aspect of the game, like farming, is only knowledge because you have to understand when to farm, when to team group, when to do jungle without putting your jungler behind, etc.
oh god i don't even know if i get 80 per 10 mins... T_T
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On November 01 2012 05:55 TheYango wrote:
Yes, but I think self-review does more than having someone watching the replay for you.
Most players' ability to evaluate an observed game isn't so below the rest of their skill that they can't find their own mistakes watching their own replays. A lot of those QQ posts are borne out of people raging right after a game that they haven't gone back to review, or that they simply wouldn't review either way.
not necessarily...
sometimes they need hints on what they did wrong and having a good player review their replays will then open their eyes, so to speak. it's just like when you watch a stream or like a razer academy and they say or do something and you're like "wow, i never noticed that."
obviously you need a little bit of both though. kinda messed up to ask for replay reviews if you don't watch your own.
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On November 01 2012 05:02 thenexusp wrote:
hey guys I have a theory, does it make any sense?
There is a type of player who has the mechanics and knowledge of a 1400 player (for example), but sucks at leadership, whether saying things in a way that'll make people listen to him ("OMG I PING DRAGON 5 TIMES NO ONE COME FUKIN NOBS") or having a tendency to make poor calls (going for baron at the wrong times) or simply never making calls and hoping someone else will say to dragon or push or turtle. This player will hold his own in a 1400 game, he won't lose lane, someone else will call objectives, or when he pings dragon people have enough awareness to go for it and he doesn't rage. But if he drops down to 1100 elo he can't carry himself back up, because he can't lead a team, and the other 1100s are making 1100-elo calls and not getting him anywhere. For this player, elo hell is a very real place, but because of an SC2-like mentality of "all that matters is mechanics and knowledge" he doesn't realize his own flaws that are holding him back. He'll cite games in 1400 elo where he did well, but not realize that his flaws are covered at that elo. Another player, who is a great leader, carries himself out of 1100 elo without a single loss and wonders what the first guy's problem is, there is no elo hell, obviously the first guy deserves to be at 1100 elo if he's been there so long. And then the next elo hell discussion begins.
This makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm not great mechanically (for my elo), but I'm pretty solid in game sense, and leading a team.
When I started ranked, I was 1150-1200 range and kept thinking I'm better than my rating, that I shouldn't be there - but in hindsight, I was actually that skill level. I was in that rough range for a good 60 games or so. Then I started playing jungle (Udyr, Noc, WW, ,etc) and absolutely carried games simply by ganking the right lanes and calling objectives, and went up to 1500 or so very quickly in S2.
Then I quit for a while, came back and didn't keep up with the meta at all, and tanked to <1350 very quickly. But by then I was up to date again on the meta changes and what the new champs (and re-balanced champs) are, and have won every single game since and am 1580 or so right now, playing every role . Again, I'm pretty bad mechanically, but it doesn't matter quite as much. Communication is key. Again, all 1500-elo advice, but for people who want to carry teams out of elo hell this is true.
-Jungle: gank the right lanes. Control the right objectives. Ward for your team, so even the worst top/mids don't die to easy ganks. Some junglers are good at ganking lanes but don't control team properly (e.g. call mid to go 4 man gank bot, or time dragon/buffs so your top lane can react in time to shove wave and come contest dragon). Very simple things, but it makes a huge deal in team communication.
-Mid/Top: Don't die in lane. Take wraiths to keep up/ahead in farm. Assist other lanes when possible - even the pressure alone can be enough. Even if you are slightly behind you can turn the game entirely around by ganking a lane at the right time (and take tower+dragon) or a favorable dragon fight. I've been behind in lane several times, but just farmed jungles / ganked other lanes / pushed for objectives to catch up the team.
-AD: When ahead, take your tower, dragon, and push mid/top and call for team to group. (Got that 15 min Phage+BT on ezreal? Kill your tower and go mid, immediately.) The team gold from that will help the rest of your team catch up, and being grouped lets your team ward more easily and often catch stragglers on the other team. All you have to do is tell your team to put a warm body between you and the other team and take care of the rest. (This means don't have shitty positioning in team fights.)
-Support: This is a HUGE deal. Ward properly. Control lane brush properly. Harass the shit out of the other team if it's an easy lane, and play passive if hard lane. Your job is to make sure your carry doesn't die. Call out wards, timers, MIAs. Low elo players hate support, even though it's one of the most game changing roles (since your team is an incohesive group of randoms).
TLDR: Do your job in lane, and call objectives. Be a leader. The earlier you group in low elo play the better. You have less risk of random teammates dying, you have better map vision, you can catch other team unprepared, you get global gold. You don't need to severely outskill your opponent, but just control the game - many low elo teams will do fine as long as someone gives them direction. Sometimes your team won't listen, and you can't help it...but more often than not, if you do have good game sense, then you'll rise in elo.
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United States37500 Posts
Aphro and co going to FXO. Calling it now.
Froggen drama is just stupid. Pros aren't role models. If Froggen wants to get mad in solo q, more power to him.
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On November 01 2012 06:13 NeoIllusions wrote:
Aphro and co going to FXO. Calling it now.
Froggen drama is just stupid. Pros aren't role models. If Froggen wants to get mad in solo q, more power to him.
I hope they atleast find a team. Looking forward to seeing them in some bigger tournaments soon.
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On November 01 2012 06:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 06:13 NeoIllusions wrote:
Aphro and co going to FXO. Calling it now.
Froggen drama is just stupid. Pros aren't role models. If Froggen wants to get mad in solo q, more power to him. I hope they atleast find a team. Looking forward to seeing them in some bigger tournaments soon.
Dont worry they already have something lined up, announcement coming tomorrow 
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EPT
