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On July 09 2012 18:40 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Does jayce E in hammer mode benefit from spellvamp? If yes, then gunblade would be pretty cool on him with the 1.0 ap ratio on hammer-W and all the vamp from his abilities.
Event then I think with Trinity Force and then maybe Hextech Gunblade a Hammer Jace should be able to defeat almost any opponent.
WQ->auto->E and you won the trade and disengaged at the same time.
After that you could just build him tanky (i'm thinking frozen mallet,atmogs or Maw) and build on the fixed 20% damage of his E.
I feel like so many people going IE/BT/etc. on him are doing it wrong... but then again, i'm the low-ELO scrub and they are probably doing it right :p
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On July 09 2012 18:55 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:40 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Does jayce E in hammer mode benefit from spellvamp? If yes, then gunblade would be pretty cool on him with the 1.0 ap ratio on hammer-W and all the vamp from his abilities. Event then I think with Trinity Force and then maybe Hextech Gunblade a Hammer Jace should be able to defeat almost any opponent. WQ->auto->E and you won the trade and disengaged at the same time. After that you could just build him tanky (i'm thinking frozen mallet,atmogs or Maw) and build on the fixed 20% damage of his E. I feel like so many people going IE/BT/etc. on him are doing it wrong... but then again, i'm the low-ELO scrub and they are probably doing it right :p
Have you tried this or are you theorycrafting? Because hammer Jayce is just about the weakest bruiser in the game unless you count evelynn as one.
If you want to play like that just pick Warwick, he actually has CC and a thousand times more survivability.
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xerath's basic three abilities are just ungodly strong, he doesn't need his ult to be a scary motherfucker. The ult is just icing on the cake, not very thick icing, but it's there. I find there are a few situations where it pays for itself super hard:
1) when you position yourself so a melee goes after you, whereupon you can QERRRQ right on top of yourself and blow the everliving fuck out of them while tanking better than most casters.
2) when an enemy team gets a hard initiate and they all jump on some poor sap, you just W up and QRRR on top of them. I had one of those where a guy got caught by 4 of the other team in tribush during a baron dance, I got all 4 of them with 3 ult hits and my Q, singlehandedly took them all below half and instagibbed their heimer as the rest of my team counterinitiated and aced them.
3) set up in wraithcamp or some kind of similar beyond-wall position as a lane skirmish develops, get someone to bait them in near the wall and let fly. You can usually land 2 before they realise what's happening and often 3 if your friends have any kind of CC.
You just have to learn not to rely on the ult in 1v1 skirmishes- just dominate people with xer's ungodly poke and drive them out of lane. If you can land a couple of ult hits safely as part of that harass just do it. get your kills with QEigniteQWQ that should be enough to do 50-65% of most other midlaners health if you're staying a bit ahead on CS and building heavy damage. The ult is there for when you know 3+ people are going to be in a clump for 2+ seconds. When that happens you instantly win the fight. it's even more brutal than a full brand ult.
I don't think I've ever had worse than a 5-1 KDA ratio on xerath in the first 30 minutes of a game, including ones where my team feeds. Later in those games I end up more like 2-1, but in games where my other lanes hold down and keep things even I generally have a significantly higher KDA than that, up around 8-1. I'm fairly sure it's 90% because at the casual level I play at nobody freaking knows how to deal with a xerath, but even so, I have never had so clean a record with a champion as with him. There has to be something to it.
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United States1866 Posts
On July 09 2012 12:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 12:32 wei2coolman wrote:On July 09 2012 12:29 overt wrote:
I honestly think that Caitlyn's ult is awful. Has zero utilty, does very little damage, and it's block-able. oddly enough its one of my favorite ults, in terms of balance/design. I like abilities that can be counterable/outplayed, so cait ult can be denied pretty hard, by smart play from team. Whatever niceties that design choice brings still makes it absolutely awful. It's a mediocre single target ad nuke with an absolutely enormous channel for little payoff that itself is blockable or easy to stop with a shield/heal spell. It's the worst ad carry ult and definitely one of the worst ults.
I gotta agree. If they want to play up the fun counter play design aspect of it they should do something like drastically increase its damage if it hits its intended target (while dealing the same/less damage than now if it is blocked) to increase the importance of blocking it and also giving some semblance of a reward to a cait that actually channels the whole thing mid fight and hits who they intended.
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On July 09 2012 19:17 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 12:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 09 2012 12:32 wei2coolman wrote:On July 09 2012 12:29 overt wrote:
I honestly think that Caitlyn's ult is awful. Has zero utilty, does very little damage, and it's block-able. oddly enough its one of my favorite ults, in terms of balance/design. I like abilities that can be counterable/outplayed, so cait ult can be denied pretty hard, by smart play from team. Whatever niceties that design choice brings still makes it absolutely awful. It's a mediocre single target ad nuke with an absolutely enormous channel for little payoff that itself is blockable or easy to stop with a shield/heal spell. It's the worst ad carry ult and definitely one of the worst ults. I gotta agree. If they want to play up the fun counter play design aspect of it they should do something like drastically increase its damage if it hits its intended target (while dealing the same/less damage than now if it is blocked) to increase the importance of blocking it and also giving some semblance of a reward to a cait that actually channels the whole thing mid fight and hits who they intended.
You shouldnt be using it mid fight though, if you try channeling it mid fight the other team should just jump on you and rape you.
Should be used before/after to soften up a target or at the very beginning of a fight when your/their team is engaging.
the extra/reduced damage would be interesting though
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Baa?21245 Posts
On July 09 2012 19:17 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 12:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 09 2012 12:32 wei2coolman wrote:On July 09 2012 12:29 overt wrote:
I honestly think that Caitlyn's ult is awful. Has zero utilty, does very little damage, and it's block-able. oddly enough its one of my favorite ults, in terms of balance/design. I like abilities that can be counterable/outplayed, so cait ult can be denied pretty hard, by smart play from team. Whatever niceties that design choice brings still makes it absolutely awful. It's a mediocre single target ad nuke with an absolutely enormous channel for little payoff that itself is blockable or easy to stop with a shield/heal spell. It's the worst ad carry ult and definitely one of the worst ults. I gotta agree. If they want to play up the fun counter play design aspect of it they should do something like drastically increase its damage if it hits its intended target (while dealing the same/less damage than now if it is blocked) to increase the importance of blocking it and also giving some semblance of a reward to a cait that actually channels the whole thing mid fight and hits who they intended.
Obviously direct skill to skill comparisons are flawed, but just for reference, compare the numbers on Cait's ult to Veigar's ult, both giant single target nukes.
Physical Damage: 250 / 475 / 700 (+2.0 per bonus attack damage)
Magic Damage: 250 / 375 / 500 (+1.2 per ability power)
Obviously a Veigar is going to have more AP than bonus AD on a Cait, but the latter is not a negligible amount with a much better scaling. There are other concerns like the prevalence of Armor/MR, the natural Armor scaling on champs, etc, but for early game, it should equal out.
Whatever complaints there may exist about Caitlyn's ult, I don't think damage should be one of them...
Obviously there are other pros and cons to the ult, but again, from a pure damage perspective, I think the numbers are pretty good...If you buff the damage based on hitting the intended target, then the base numbers have to be brought down, otherwise it would just be a ridiculous skill in lane. Risk-free nuke for half their health? Kinda imba @@
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make caitlyn's ult pierce if it deals fatal damage.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THE AWESOME
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After learning Jayce a bit more he's seriously scary as fuck as a botlane dominator with a good support (Say Taric).
Taric stun -> hammer form jump -> knockback -> ranged form full combo -> melee form to finish them off or something like that is just insanely good, also with his bonus damaged triple hit his singletarget burst rivals Graves's I think.
Against botlane jungle ganks it's pretty neat to speed yourself and your support up and E-ing the melee jungler or something away.
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On July 09 2012 19:30 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
make caitlyn's ult pierce if it deals fatal damage.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THE AWESOME
So basically it'd only work if the enemy who blocks will die from the shot. So why would they block it in that case?
edit: 7 minutes and no one posts in between my posts, disappointed
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I can't play LoL atm on account of being in Taiwan (I have NA account). I've only played Jayce once. I was thinking what if you build bruiser Jayce with an IE as your big dps item. Build him around dat crazy W steroid. So something like Boots3 into 2 dblades. Then BF->Phage->IE->Mallet. Throw in Aegis and/or HoG as needed. You are decently tanky with just Aegis+Hammer passive. Phage->mallet or Belt->Mallet gives you some hp as a buffer. IE should synergize with Jayce's W really well considering how you can "precast" W before changing to hammer time mode or just stay in ranged mode.
Just theorycrafting here. Farming up IE and Aegis, or HoG, or even just Aegis components should be pretty easy due to the rather static nature of top lane. In lane you can do quite well with minimal items since you're essentially a ranged champ. Farming with E+Q in cannon mode is ezmode if you're getting zoned as well.
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So how does IE synergize with him better than BT? Makes no sense, esp as you love lifesteal.
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how is jayce the worst bruiser besides eve lol?? i havent lost a top lane yet and top lane is my least played lane by far. i max e then q and i just chunk ppl all game long.
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On July 09 2012 21:16 Vaporized wrote:
how is jayce the worst bruiser besides eve lol?? i havent lost a top lane yet and top lane is my least played lane by far. i max e then q and i just chunk ppl all game long.
So they do nothing about your 0 sustain and low harrass? That's really really strange... I guess people have no clue how to play vs him or something.
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On July 09 2012 19:39 Shikyo wrote:
After learning Jayce a bit more he's seriously scary as fuck as a botlane dominator with a good support (Say Taric).
Taric stun -> hammer form jump -> knockback -> ranged form full combo -> melee form to finish them off or something like that is just insanely good, also with his bonus damaged triple hit his singletarget burst rivals Graves's I think.
Against botlane jungle ganks it's pretty neat to speed yourself and your support up and E-ing the melee jungler or something away.
Told you. Free poke with Q (even without using E, the fact that it's slow actually makes it a good funneling tool), W in ranged form gives him a great burst that beats MF's W-aa-Q-aa, and against short range champs like Vayne-Graves harassing or switching to hammer form for balls-deep engage is rather easy as soon as they use their positioning spell : Graves dashes to you? WRQ and hit him with your bonus armor to mitigates his Q. He won't be able to get out of range since he just burnt E.
He isn't as strong as most carries later, but I found his lanong phase pretty good, even with a Soraka (for poke).
With a Nunu, he was uncatchable and Iceball + his ranged W would make win any trades, plus you can't ever dream of ganking him with bloodboil + acceleration gate + his passive.
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On July 09 2012 21:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 21:16 Vaporized wrote:
how is jayce the worst bruiser besides eve lol?? i havent lost a top lane yet and top lane is my least played lane by far. i max e then q and i just chunk ppl all game long. So they do nothing about your 0 sustain and low harrass? That's really really strange... I guess people have no clue how to play vs him or something.
low harass?? jayce has the easiest harass of any champ ive played. hammer mode q-w-e, then r-e-q-w is free harass. i dont think jayce will beat every top lane, but no champ will.
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On July 09 2012 21:26 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 21:23 Shikyo wrote:On July 09 2012 21:16 Vaporized wrote:
how is jayce the worst bruiser besides eve lol?? i havent lost a top lane yet and top lane is my least played lane by far. i max e then q and i just chunk ppl all game long. So they do nothing about your 0 sustain and low harrass? That's really really strange... I guess people have no clue how to play vs him or something. low harass?? jayce has the easiest harass of any champ ive played. hammer mode q-w-e, then r-e-q-w is free harass. i dont think jayce will beat every top lane, but no champ will.
Jax QWE is way stronger than Jayce's and if you do QWE-REQW you run out of mana after like one repetition
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On July 09 2012 21:29 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 21:26 Vaporized wrote:On July 09 2012 21:23 Shikyo wrote:On July 09 2012 21:16 Vaporized wrote:
how is jayce the worst bruiser besides eve lol?? i havent lost a top lane yet and top lane is my least played lane by far. i max e then q and i just chunk ppl all game long. So they do nothing about your 0 sustain and low harrass? That's really really strange... I guess people have no clue how to play vs him or something. low harass?? jayce has the easiest harass of any champ ive played. hammer mode q-w-e, then r-e-q-w is free harass. i dont think jayce will beat every top lane, but no champ will. Jax QWE is way stronger than Jayce's and if you do QWE-REQW you run out of mana after like one repetition
just hammer qe whenever they get in range is free harass. with philo mana isnt that much of a problem. personally i find him a bit weak early, but once you get a few points in your skills you can do work in lane. top lane i start cloth or boots into philo and hog, and then triforce with phage first. it seems to work so far.
~3 hammer qe's and suddenly the other guy is at half health and zoned.
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well jax doesn't have a ranged form with a different set of abilities. He isn't supposed to outdamage jax head on. He would be OP if he did.
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On July 09 2012 21:33 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 21:29 Shikyo wrote:On July 09 2012 21:26 Vaporized wrote:On July 09 2012 21:23 Shikyo wrote:On July 09 2012 21:16 Vaporized wrote:
how is jayce the worst bruiser besides eve lol?? i havent lost a top lane yet and top lane is my least played lane by far. i max e then q and i just chunk ppl all game long. So they do nothing about your 0 sustain and low harrass? That's really really strange... I guess people have no clue how to play vs him or something. low harass?? jayce has the easiest harass of any champ ive played. hammer mode q-w-e, then r-e-q-w is free harass. i dont think jayce will beat every top lane, but no champ will. Jax QWE is way stronger than Jayce's and if you do QWE-REQW you run out of mana after like one repetition just hammer qe whenever they get in range is free harass. with philo mana isnt that much of a problem. personally i find him a bit weak early, but once you get a few points in your skills you can do work in lane. top lane i start cloth or boots into philo and hog, and then triforce with phage first. it seems to work so far. ~3 hammer qe's and suddenly the other guy is at half health and zoned.
Usually they are going to harrass back and in a straight-up trade with an E-max build you're quite screwed.
Then again maybe I've only played bad matchups
Or I really suck but I don't know why I'd have so much problems jayce top compared to bot, oh well.
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man shikyo is in fine form this patch
constantly saying how much he's played jayce and how good he is, but as soon as someone else says that he's good, telling them that jayce is bad
not sure i understand
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EPT
