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While this thread is labeled "DotA2", this is in fact a community thread first. Many of the users in the TL LoL subforum have been playing as friends for over a year now, so it makes logical sense that they would want to play other games together.
Do not compare DotA2 to LoL, you will get banned.
TL LoL veterans know what is expected. Newcomers be warned.
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On March 04 2012 19:03 LAN-f34r wrote:
I don't get what you mean. The hotkeys for non-heros are all qwer? (non-legacy ofc)
What he's saying is that 1-6 are usually used for unit control groups, that's why rebinding them for items (like it is standard in LoL because you don't control multiple units like in DotA / WC3 / SC) is a bad idea.
Edit: Is rebinding tab to score screen bad? Kinda used to it being that ever since CS / Quake all the way to LoL. My guess is that not being able to use tab is fine as long as you can work with your control groups properly, just wanna know if there's any other thing it's useful for.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 04 2012 19:03 LAN-f34r wrote:
I don't get what you mean. The hotkeys for non-heros are all qwer? (non-legacy ofc)
Not skill hotkeys. I mean for control-grouping units together.
Say you're Chen and you've got a Centaur, a Troll Warlord, and a Wildkin. You want control group hotkeys for each of those so that you can quickly cycle through them and cast all their spells, rather than having to click on each of them in a fight. You also want to be able to quickly tab to their position if you're using them to stack Ancients for your carry on the other side of the map, rather than scrolling across the minimap. Anyone with BW/SC2/WC3 experience will be used to using the numeric keys for control group hotkeys.
On March 04 2012 19:06 r.Evo wrote:
Edit: Is rebinding tab to score screen bad? Kinda used to it being that ever since CS / Quake all the way to LoL. My guess is that not being able to use tab is fine as long as you can work with your control groups properly, just wanna know if there's any other thing it's useful for.
I'm using Tab for score screen. Though TBH I'm considering binding something else to Tab simply because the score screen isn't all that useful. Seeing people's gold saved isn't helpful unless you know what items they have (so you know what they're saving for/what components they still need), and looking at someone's items is a better indication of how they're doing than their score.
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On March 04 2012 19:06 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 19:03 LAN-f34r wrote:
I don't get what you mean. The hotkeys for non-heros are all qwer? (non-legacy ofc) What he's saying is that 1-6 are usually used for unit control groups, that's why rebinding them for items (like it is standard in LoL because you don't control multiple units like in DotA / WC3 / SC) is a bad idea. Edit: Is rebinding tab to score screen bad? Kinda used to it being that ever since CS / Quake all the way to LoL. My guess is that not being able to use tab is fine as long as you can work with your control groups properly, just wanna know if there's any other thing it's useful for.
Sometimes when I play Chen I will just tab between all my creeps/heroes to rotate through their cc. You could use control groups for this if you are happy to not be controlling all of your units at the same time, since you will often do this to individually micro them anyway. Requires you to play better to achieve the same result as pressing tab would in some cases though.
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Hey guys just a quick question (I do not ask for a BETA key). I searched how to suscribe to get one but I can't find the page ? Is it closed ?
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When I micro in SC2, Its either en masse (ie I tell all my lings to move past the army to get a surround), spamming spells from the one spell caster in the group (ie gateway ball spamming forcefields + shield), or individual micro which can't really be done with control groups (individually selecting high templars to move forward and storm for example). Chen micro ect feels like the latter to me, If I tried to control group all my minions I would end up having my centaurs stomping air, with my wildkin half way across the map tornadoing the ground.
As for scrolling - ever heard of clicking the minimap? 
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United States47024 Posts
On March 04 2012 21:02 LAN-f34r wrote:
When I micro in SC2, Its either en masse (ie I tell all my lings to move past the army to get a surround), spamming spells from the one spell caster in the group (ie gateway ball spamming forcefields + shield), or individual micro which can't really be done with control groups (individually selecting high templars to move forward and storm for example). Chen micro ect feels like the latter to me, If I tried to control group all my minions I would end up having my centaurs stomping air, with my wildkin half way across the map tornadoing the ground.
That example isn't apt because you don't need your control groups for anything else. In SC2 you don't have enough control groups to be able to give each separate Templar it's own control group. But in DotA 2, you don't have an army or buildings, so you can put individual units in their own control groups. You can press 3, micro your centaur, press 4, micro your wildkin, then press 1 and go back to controlling your hero.
On March 04 2012 21:02 LAN-f34r wrote:As for scrolling - ever heard of clicking the minimap?
Using a control group to scroll over is faster and more precise. You don't have to move your mouse to the minimap and back.
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You can add my name to the list r.Evo, as you allready added me to ingame
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On March 04 2012 20:02 Lylat wrote:
Hey guys just a quick question (I do not ask for a BETA key). I searched how to suscribe to get one but I can't find the page ? Is it closed ?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/570
Official survey is there, also check out playdota.com forum giveaways for keys (there's a big thread you can post in).
On March 04 2012 19:06 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 19:03 LAN-f34r wrote:
I don't get what you mean. The hotkeys for non-heros are all qwer? (non-legacy ofc) What he's saying is that 1-6 are usually used for unit control groups, that's why rebinding them for items (like it is standard in LoL because you don't control multiple units like in DotA / WC3 / SC) is a bad idea. Edit: Is rebinding tab to score screen bad? Kinda used to it being that ever since CS / Quake all the way to LoL. My guess is that not being able to use tab is fine as long as you can work with your control groups properly, just wanna know if there's any other thing it's useful for.
Tab is fine to rebind just don't go and pick a hero that requires multiple unit control (chen, beastmaster, enchantress, etc)
EDIT: Cool thread. x)
EDIT2: For hotkeys I use qwersd for skills, easiest place to put items imo is on like mouse keys or just the num keys if you are okay with using f1 keys for hero and don't play on playing multiple unit control heroes. Though, you really don't need to worry about having to find space for 6 items, you probably only really need 2 item slots hotkeyed (esp at the start).
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On March 04 2012 21:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 21:02 LAN-f34r wrote:
When I micro in SC2, Its either en masse (ie I tell all my lings to move past the army to get a surround), spamming spells from the one spell caster in the group (ie gateway ball spamming forcefields + shield), or individual micro which can't really be done with control groups (individually selecting high templars to move forward and storm for example). Chen micro ect feels like the latter to me, If I tried to control group all my minions I would end up having my centaurs stomping air, with my wildkin half way across the map tornadoing the ground. That example isn't apt because you don't need your control groups for anything else. In SC2 you don't have enough control groups to be able to give each separate Templar it's own control group. But in DotA 2, you don't have an army or buildings, so you can put individual units in their own control groups. You can press 3, micro your centaur, press 4, micro your wildkin, then press 1 and go back to controlling your hero.
Whether or not it is an apt comparison, I have gotten used to controlling individual spell-casters via clicking on them. If I only had 3 high templars in SC2 to control (ie no other army), I would still micro them via left click. Otherwise I just get confused as to which one is which and end up microing the wrong unit.
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so how are we going to go about organizing games?
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2012 08:54 UniversalSnip wrote:
so how are we going to go about organizing games?
Presumably people will start joining the channel ingame, or joining the group chat for the Steam group.
I haven't seen people in either, but if we want to find games this way, people should start using them.
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What about... log into steam/dota/group chat and we work from there? =D
I doubt it makes sense to officially set dates and stuff. I'd just say go ahead and idle in the group chat and shout if you're looking for people. Kinda like LP - just the working EU version, huehue. =P
Edit: e.g. right now we have 12 people online in the group and 3 in chat. =P
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United States47024 Posts
So after talking with Evo, I figured it might be a good idea to make a list of good heroes for people with LoL experience to try, along with some notes about their general playstyle. Most of the lists of heroes that people suggest for newbies suck really hard (suggesting shit like Skeleton King who is boring as FUCK to play).
As a general note I feel super lategame-oriented carries aren't very good for learning the game, because while they might be straightforward, they don't put you in situations where you really see lots of different things happening. Gank- and teamfight-oriented carries are both more fun and better to learn with. Hence why I don't have many heroes in the Agility section--you simply don't learn anything about the game afk-farming for 30 minutes as Spectre or Drow Ranger.
I have the opposite opinion about supports. A lot of the big differences with supports in DotA have to do with farming and lane control through mechanics like pulling creeps. It's much easier to get a feel for roaming/ganking supports once you have a feel for those mechanics.
Organized by hero attribute:
+ Show Spoiler [Strength Heroes] +
Beastmaster - Having minions is pretty deceptive about Beastmaster, especially since the most popular Chinese style right now is to not level Call of the Wild until Axes is maxed, and aura well filled. He's a strong mid laner with comfortable last-hitting and mana management and a straightforward gank.
Dragon Knight - One of the strongest carries in the game, and definitely the most well-rounded. If I were to compare him to LoL heroes, I'd say he's somewhere in between Riven and Kayle. He's got straightforward abilities, is strong in lane, and can be comfortable with whatever you want to do with him - whether you want to teamfight, farm, or push.
Slardar - Most comparable probably to midgame-oriented bruisers, packing a lot of baseline disruption, tankiness, and moderate damage. Slardar's kit and role are just going to be pretty straightforward for someone who's played those kind of heroes in LoL.
Lifestealer - A great carry lategame that also is really strong in ganks and teamfights. He can lane or jungle (lane is faster farm if you have a good babysitter, jungle is slow but safer). In terms of playstyle, I'd say he shares elements with Trundle and Xin Zhao.
+ Show Spoiler [Agility Heroes] +
Mirana - Sure she's got a skillshot, but it's not really harder to land than anything a LoL player would be used to. As a ranged carry/semicarry, she's probably closest to what a LoL player expects for ranged DPS heroes. She's got good fighting ability at all stages of the game, has an escape, and good farming/pushing power.
Razor - Even though he's an agility hero, Razor plays somewhere halfway between a ranged carry and a bruiser (Graves is probably the most sensible comparison, but even that's not that great). He's got a good attack animation, high-damage spells with comfortable mana costs, and is a strong teamfighter midgame. Not the best carry lategame, but even then it's still workable if you're farmed.
+ Show Spoiler [Intelligence Heroes] +
Crystal Maiden - Probably the best support hero IMO to learn with (I don't actually like Lich to learn with, because while you'll win games, he lets you get away without proper lane control or mana management). She's got good strength in lane early, good ganking once you get used to her in lane, and good AoE for when you're farming jungle camps/clearing lanes midgame.
Windrunner - Everyone's heard about how Windrunner is a great hero to learn, so I shouldn't need to explain any further. She's flexible, her skills are straightforward, but also have room for a lot of skill.
Shadow Shaman - He's playable as a support or a pusher mid. Like CM, his spells are pretty fairly straightforward (AoE, CC, damage). His mana management is a bit rougher than hers though, given how his ultimate's mana cost is really rough.
Lion - I think Lion is one of the best heroes to learn playing solo mid with (he also can support). He's got a great autoattack range, decent AA damage, and very average mana management (if you get used to Lion's early mana management, you should be comfortable with a lot of other heroes). He can control mid very well and make use of farm, but he also has a great gank for setting up the sidelanes.
Witch Doctor - Somewhat like LoL supports. You've got a minor sustain spell, some good CC, good teamfighting spells.
Warlock - Probably the most similar support to LoL supports (I'd compare him to Sona). You have a sustain heal for early babysitting, some minor utility spells, and a big AoE CC ultimate.
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So which site should I be reading guides on. Im assuming that there are tiers for stupidity like there are in lol.
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isn't warlock a he? i though he had a beard
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whatever you do dont play enchantress she has the dumbest walking animation i played her twice and then never played the game again
also all of the girls sound like they are touching themselves
the evil queen person who does the poison thing is pretty cool imo
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On March 06 2012 01:40 unichan wrote:
whatever you do dont play enchantress she has the dumbest walking animation i played her twice and then never played the game again
also all of the girls sound like they are touching themselves
the evil queen person who does the poison thing is pretty cool imo
Queen of Pain?
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On March 06 2012 04:43 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:40 unichan wrote:
whatever you do dont play enchantress she has the dumbest walking animation i played her twice and then never played the game again
also all of the girls sound like they are touching themselves
the evil queen person who does the poison thing is pretty cool imo Queen of Pain?
yeah she tite
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EPT
