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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 19 2012 05:29 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 05:24 TheYango wrote:On February 19 2012 05:19 Slayer91 wrote:
No it isn't? On Vlad maybe. On Kennen having basically infinite energy is as absurd as infinite mana is on any caster. The increase in base mana regen -> mana regen w/ blue is way higher than the increase in energy regen -> energy regen with blue. While people certainly underestimate blue buff on manaless casters, one can't disagree that blue gives way bigger boost to mana users - it's just a fact.
Depends on the circumstances. Mana-based casters won't run out of mana as fast as energy-based heroes. A full-mana AP caster won't receive the benefits of blue buff as immediately as energy-based caster in a teamfight.
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On February 19 2012 05:41 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 05:29 Kaniol wrote:On February 19 2012 05:24 TheYango wrote:On February 19 2012 05:19 Slayer91 wrote:
No it isn't? On Vlad maybe. On Kennen having basically infinite energy is as absurd as infinite mana is on any caster. The increase in base mana regen -> mana regen w/ blue is way higher than the increase in energy regen -> energy regen with blue. While people certainly underestimate blue buff on manaless casters, one can't disagree that blue gives way bigger boost to mana users - it's just a fact. Depends on the circumstances. Mana-based casters won't run out of mana as fast as energy-based heroes. A full-mana AP caster won't receive the benefits of blue buff as immediately as energy-based caster in a teamfight.
While mana-users don't run out as fast, the moment they hit zero they become significantly more useless than an energy based caster. That one reason is why it's better to give blue to a mana caster, despite the fact that everybody benefits from CDR/regen.
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Only time you REALLY need to give blue to manaless casters is lategame for CDR on their ults. Before that the jungle should take it at all times for the speed, exp, and gold increases. Unless you are running something top that benefits like GP or bot like corki.
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On February 19 2012 05:48 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 05:41 Juicyfruit wrote:On February 19 2012 05:29 Kaniol wrote:On February 19 2012 05:24 TheYango wrote:On February 19 2012 05:19 Slayer91 wrote:
No it isn't? On Vlad maybe. On Kennen having basically infinite energy is as absurd as infinite mana is on any caster. The increase in base mana regen -> mana regen w/ blue is way higher than the increase in energy regen -> energy regen with blue. While people certainly underestimate blue buff on manaless casters, one can't disagree that blue gives way bigger boost to mana users - it's just a fact. Depends on the circumstances. Mana-based casters won't run out of mana as fast as energy-based heroes. A full-mana AP caster won't receive the benefits of blue buff as immediately as energy-based caster in a teamfight. While mana-users don't run out as fast, the moment they hit zero they become significantly more useless than an energy based caster. That one reason is why it's better to give blue to a mana caster, despite the fact that everybody benefits from CDR/regen.
One could argue energy users reach the point of zero resources a lot quicker most of the time than mana users do, though. In that sense, they make use of the blue faster than mana dependant champions do. In a teamfight, I'd rather have a Kennen or a Vlad with a blue than Noc, Rammus, Shaco, Jax. I'd refrain from giving up early blues as any of those junglers, for reasons that have already been mentioned.
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blue is really reallly good on most manaless casters. blue kennen particularly is fucking berserkermode, should ping loci on that because that was what he said *before* blue on energy heroes got buffed. Some casters are dependent on blue like ori or aniv and of course nobody is competing with them for it, but the jungler is not in that category, period. If you can pass the blue off to kennen vlad and friends you should.
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On February 19 2012 06:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
blue is really reallly good on most manaless casters. blue kennen particularly is fucking berserkermode, should ping loci on that because that was what he said *before* blue on energy heroes got buffed. Some casters are dependent on blue like ori or aniv and of course nobody is competing with them for it, but the jungler is not in that category, period. If you can pass the blue off to kennen vlad and friends you should.
No way man, give that blue to Trist, Corki, Kog, Ezreal.
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On February 19 2012 06:15 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 06:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
blue is really reallly good on most manaless casters. blue kennen particularly is fucking berserkermode, should ping loci on that because that was what he said *before* blue on energy heroes got buffed. Some casters are dependent on blue like ori or aniv and of course nobody is competing with them for it, but the jungler is not in that category, period. If you can pass the blue off to kennen vlad and friends you should. No way man, give that blue to Trist, Corki, Kog, Ezreal.
Kog I can understand if you have a poke team, but suggesting to give Tristana a blue buff over Kennen or Vlad is pretty hilarious.
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Why would Tristana ever need blue? She never goes OOM and the only spell she really needs up off cooldown has a CD refresh on kills/assists. You don't really need shorter CD on Q, it lasts 7 seconds so as long as you're just not using it at bad times it'll be up when you need it.
But yeah, if your team can allow for it giving blue to Corki, Ez, or Kog is really good.
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Thanks. M5 has a kennen, shyvana, and mordehuehuehue.
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On February 19 2012 06:20 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 06:15 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 19 2012 06:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
blue is really reallly good on most manaless casters. blue kennen particularly is fucking berserkermode, should ping loci on that because that was what he said *before* blue on energy heroes got buffed. Some casters are dependent on blue like ori or aniv and of course nobody is competing with them for it, but the jungler is not in that category, period. If you can pass the blue off to kennen vlad and friends you should. No way man, give that blue to Trist, Corki, Kog, Ezreal. Kog I can understand if you have a poke team, but suggesting to give Tristana a blue buff over Kennen or Vlad is pretty hilarious.
AP Trist, for unlimited rocket jumping powah.
And Corki and Ezreal you didn't address, which is pretty hilarious.
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Because Corki and Ezreal are obvious benefactors of blue. Kog is a more rare occurrence since with proper mana management you'd never need blue unless you're spamming r constantly.
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On February 19 2012 06:49 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 06:20 Shiv. wrote:On February 19 2012 06:15 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 19 2012 06:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
blue is really reallly good on most manaless casters. blue kennen particularly is fucking berserkermode, should ping loci on that because that was what he said *before* blue on energy heroes got buffed. Some casters are dependent on blue like ori or aniv and of course nobody is competing with them for it, but the jungler is not in that category, period. If you can pass the blue off to kennen vlad and friends you should. No way man, give that blue to Trist, Corki, Kog, Ezreal. Kog I can understand if you have a poke team, but suggesting to give Tristana a blue buff over Kennen or Vlad is pretty hilarious. AP Trist, for unlimited rocket jumping powah. And Corki and Ezreal you didn't address, which is pretty hilarious.
AP Trist doesn't count because we were arguing under the assumption you have no AP champ who's in desperate need of blue.
Personally, I'd much rather have Kennen and Vlad have blue buff over Corki and Ez. If not for the substantially lower CD on their ultimates, then for the lowered CD on their main nukes and especially the energy Regen on Kennen. A Kennen with ERegen Yellows and Blue Buff is an unstoppably stunlocking force in a teamfight. I think he's a lot more influential than Corki and Ez will ever be with blue.
That being said, I prefer building both of them straight up IE instead of Triforce.
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aAa picking M5 apart. Moma star of the game.
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M5 jungler: "bg 1v9" ahahaha. You don't usually see that kind of solo queue hate in a team tourney game.
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That's hardly true. A blue buff corki/ez is going to do a lot more damage than a blue Kennen. I have tremendous doubts that the CDR on vlad would somehow put him over what either of those two can do, especially considering how much more it lets them poke before the fight starts and how it greatly increases the volume of work they can do.
The argument, if there is even one to be had, is when you have no mana using carry that's actually hungry for mana versus a non-mana using champion that can use CDR. Without question I would give a Corki/Ez blue long before I'd give it to a Kennen.
On February 19 2012 07:18 Slow Motion wrote:
M5 jungler: "bg 1v9" ahahaha. You don't usually see that kind of solo queue hate in a team tourney game.
I don't think it was malicious.
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On February 19 2012 07:17 Zdrastochye wrote:
aAa picking M5 apart. Moma star of the game.
He showed why every team wants him even after he left so many teams before.
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On February 19 2012 07:20 Craton wrote:That's hardly true. A blue buff corki/ez is going to do a lot more damage than a blue Kennen. I have tremendous doubts that the CDR on vlad would somehow put him over what either of those two can do, especially considering how much more it lets them poke before the fight starts and how it greatly increases the volume of work they can do. The argument, if there is even one to be had, is when you have no mana using carry that's actually hungry for mana versus a non-mana using champion that can use CDR. Without question I would give a Corki/Ez blue long before I'd give it to a Kennen. Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:18 Slow Motion wrote:
M5 jungler: "bg 1v9" ahahaha. You don't usually see that kind of solo queue hate in a team tourney game. I don't think it was malicious.
Inb4 Shiv argues that if you don't get triforce on Corki or Ez they do less damage than a perfect situation for Kennen.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 19 2012 07:20 Craton wrote:
The argument, if there is even one to be had, is when you have no mana using carry that's actually hungry for mana versus a non-mana using champion that can use CDR. Without question I would give a Corki
Except Kennen isn't using it for just the CDR. The reason blue is fucking insane on Kennen is that it makes him completely unrestricted by energy usage, which is a pretty noticeable block on his ability usage in teamfights.
On February 19 2012 06:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
blue is really reallly good on most manaless casters. blue kennen particularly is fucking berserkermode, should ping loci on that because that was what he said *before* blue on energy heroes got buffed. Some casters are dependent on blue like ori or aniv and of course nobody is competing with them for it, but the jungler is not in that category, period. If you can pass the blue off to kennen vlad and friends you should.
Blue has always been beastmode on Kennen. I'm fairly certain this was pretty well accepted on TL like 3 months ago, so I don't even know why it's being argued now.
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The thing getting lost here is THE REASON YOU GIVE BLUE TO PEOPLE IS SO THEY CAN PUSH AND GO AROUND THE MAP. If A) they dont need blue to do that or B) arent going to do that even WITH blue then the blue belongs on the jungle. Simple as that.
The value from blue going onto the jungle is TREMENDOUS. Its just that normally an AP gets to be more flexible in their play by utilizing blue and the potential reward can outstrip the natural reward from blue being on the jungle (even if most of the time its squandered by sub tourney level players).
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EPT
