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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
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On February 19 2012 04:18 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I'm curious to people's opinions on DFG.
Lately, on most of my AP champs (not all) I've been getting my boots and several drings into dcap, but now I've started getting DFG right after my deathcap. The extra damage output you can drop on somebody along with the cdr is something I seem to like a lot more than building into wota/rylias/hourglass/scepter, unless I need more hp/sustain. Is there a big downside I'm missing? Obviously the ap on it for the cost isn't that high, but other than that I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason not to do it.
Well most APs are constantly carrying blue buff so the CDR and mana regen are moot. The AP is marginal and there is no utility in it for surviving a fight because like you said, no HP and no sustain. So by default, it must only be a decent item for burst heavy heroes. Someone like Veigar, Sion or Leblanc might benefit from DFG because it can part of their burst combo and take someone from 100-0 which makes a team fight 5v4 and you then no longer need as much survivability because the fight is in your favour. If you get DFG on someone who doesn't have that burst potential then you are usually better off getting an item that can allow you to stay in team fights and keep spamming spells.
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On February 19 2012 02:23 triplej wrote:
kind of want to buy Karma now...
I played her on the free cycle and managed to 1v3 or 1v2 some fights...
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How do you guys deal with getting counter jungled?
Had a game as Lee Sin the other day, the whole enemy team ran into my blue as soon as it spawned and took it. I tried to go to their blue, mid/jungle came and caught me. By then I was so far behind the other jungler he kept stealing my shit.
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I've read that before. CDR caps at 40, blue buff gives 20. Masteries give you another 4%. Even w/ the DFG you wont be capped.
I suppose my issue is with the lack of good CDR options. On some ap champs I really, really want more CDR, but there lacks any good items. How much of a damage decrease will you feel if you get CDR boots instead of sorc and then go for void staff after dcap?
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On February 19 2012 04:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 04:18 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I'm curious to people's opinions on DFG.
Lately, on most of my AP champs (not all) I've been getting my boots and several drings into dcap, but now I've started getting DFG right after my deathcap. The extra damage output you can drop on somebody along with the cdr is something I seem to like a lot more than building into wota/rylias/hourglass/scepter, unless I need more hp/sustain. Is there a big downside I'm missing? Obviously the ap on it for the cost isn't that high, but other than that I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason not to do it. The CDR and the mp5 are essentially wasted stats because of Blue buff (well, the CDR isn't totally wasted, but its highly likely to be over-capped when other incidental CDR sources are taken into account such as blue elixirs). It's still situationally worthwhile on AP carries when you want single-target burst, but when you want sustained damage or AoE damage, straight AP is better.
I know people who get it on Morde religiously, because you often don't give him blue buff and it synchronizes with his Ult very nicely. I can't really think of any others it'd be great on, other than maybe Veigar for dat instaburst.
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On February 19 2012 04:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I've read that before. CDR caps at 40, blue buff gives 20. Masteries give you another 4%. Even w/ the DFG you wont be capped.
I suppose my issue is with the lack of good CDR options. On some ap champs I really, really want more CDR, but there lacks any good items. How much of a damage decrease will you feel if you get CDR boots instead of sorc and then go for void staff after dcap?
Blue Elixir gets you to the cap. No need to itemize for it, since you can just spend the 250g before major engagements.
Blue buff + elixir is the reason no one itemizes for CDR, they give too much and make it completely pointless. I grab CDR boots if I am playing an AP like Vlad top, since I won't be getting blue, but if you're going to be fed blue, there is no point in getting any CDR.
The weirdest part of CDR itemization is how all CDR items also give mana regen, while most champions that need CDR are manaless champions, since they won't be getting blue. Kennen, Vlad, Rumble, etc. all really benefit from CDR, but there isn't a single good CDR item for them.
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On February 19 2012 04:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I've read that before. CDR caps at 40, blue buff gives 20. Masteries give you another 4%. Even w/ the DFG you wont be capped.
I suppose my issue is with the lack of good CDR options. On some ap champs I really, really want more CDR, but there lacks any good items. How much of a damage decrease will you feel if you get CDR boots instead of sorc and then go for void staff after dcap?
Just get a bluepot? Buy one after you have finished your Deathcap and pop it for the big teamfight.
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Heey Kerp's IRL buddy trollteam playing vs aAa =D
Not doing that well but =P
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On February 19 2012 04:34 Mondeezy wrote:
How do you guys deal with getting counter jungled?
Had a game as Lee Sin the other day, the whole enemy team ran into my blue as soon as it spawned and took it. I tried to go to their blue, mid/jungle came and caught me. By then I was so far behind the other jungler he kept stealing my shit.
Why do you care about your blue with lee sin ? Should just take their red. But you need the help of your mate.
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On February 19 2012 04:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I've read that before. CDR caps at 40, blue buff gives 20. Masteries give you another 4%. Even w/ the DFG you wont be capped.
I suppose my issue is with the lack of good CDR options. On some ap champs I really, really want more CDR, but there lacks any good items. How much of a damage decrease will you feel if you get CDR boots instead of sorc and then go for void staff after dcap?
Your burst damage decrease is different for different stages for the game and for different targets. Learn the damage calculation formulas.
On February 19 2012 04:34 Mondeezy wrote:
How do you guys deal with getting counter jungled?
Had a game as Lee Sin the other day, the whole enemy team ran into my blue as soon as it spawned and took it. I tried to go to their blue, mid/jungle came and caught me. By then I was so far behind the other jungler he kept stealing my shit.
I put wards on my buffs and counter-counter jungle with the lanes.
I really don't think Lee Sin needs blue, and them coming to take blue is a risk, because if your entire team is guarding blue then your team has the tower advantage and can force fights and essentially win the game in two minutes.
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maybe the problem with blue buff isn't neccesarily that gives too many stats (although, seriously, only craton seems to think it doesn't) but that it's too reliably up. If it completely invalidates classes of items because the ap carry can assume they'll have it half the time cutting the duration dramatically would open those items up again.
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also, please give blue to your vlads/kennens/etc, it's just as good on them as on regular casters.
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Oh man... I got wrecked playing Panth against Shen.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 19 2012 05:19 Slayer91 wrote:
No it isn't?
On Vlad maybe. On Kennen having basically infinite energy is as absurd as infinite mana is on any caster.
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On February 19 2012 05:24 TheYango wrote:On Vlad maybe. On Kennen having basically infinite energy is as absurd as infinite mana is on any caster.
The increase in base mana regen -> mana regen w/ blue is way higher than the increase in energy regen -> energy regen with blue.
While people certainly underestimate blue buff on manaless casters, one can't disagree that blue gives way bigger boost to mana users - it's just a fact.
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On February 19 2012 05:13 UniversalSnip wrote:
also, please give blue to your vlads/kennens/etc,
... no
Even an AD sion or Jax could make more use of blue than vlad or kennen
It's very unlikely your top mid and jungler are manaless on blue side, and even if it were, getting blue is a hassle that really doesn't benefit kennen or vlad enough.
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I think the more important factor is that vlad and kennen have great pushing power becaus they don't have mana so they don't really need early blues that much while junglers speed up their clear a hell of a lot with blue buff and usually use the CDR well also. (They can gank much easier when they are full mana all the time, really helps)
It's not like you will lose lane without blue as vlad or kennen, while many laners get dumped on without blue. The comparision just isn't close IMO.
Kennen and vlad aren't really heavy gankers either so it's not like I'm going to give them blue while I farm jungle and they do all the ganking.
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Yeah... it seems like a lot of people aren't aware of the increased energy regen.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 19 2012 05:29 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 05:24 TheYango wrote:On February 19 2012 05:19 Slayer91 wrote:
No it isn't? On Vlad maybe. On Kennen having basically infinite energy is as absurd as infinite mana is on any caster. The increase in base mana regen -> mana regen w/ blue is way higher than the increase in energy regen -> energy regen with blue. While people certainly underestimate blue buff on manaless casters, one can't disagree that blue gives way bigger boost to mana users - it's just a fact.
You can't directly compare that given that 1) energy regen is unitemizable, and 2) energy users are by design supposed to be gated by energy usage, while mana users are gated by cooldowns and mana. Removing the energy usage restriction is a bigger deal than removing the mana usage restriction on mana users.
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EPT
