EPTah i wasnt very clear wups lol
[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 28
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
ah i wasnt very clear wups lol | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Kass is a better pubstomper overall, but gp is a safer choice for you to win a game, if that makes sense. (since bad players know at least "oh no, fed kass, gotta build MR" but when they see a fed tanky gp they just say something moronic like "don't focus the tank!") | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 01 2012 15:49 starfries wrote: Stuck at home with the New Year's flu :/. Happy New Year, everybody. I always maxed shield but I don't really know what I'm doing on Janna lol What's the idea here? Do you just keep tossing Ws at them to harass? Is it better than shielding your carry and letting them take shots? Your ranged AD is busy farming. W is way stronger for harrass than E (600 range single cast vs 500 range 5 seconds of autoattacking, which case allows the enemy to retaliate better - your guess). W also is a huge slow and thus awesome for setting up engagements. Janna is an offensive support, not a defensive. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 01 2012 18:41 spinesheath wrote: Your ranged AD is busy farming. W is way stronger for harrass than E (600 range single cast vs 500 range 5 seconds of autoattacking, which case allows the enemy to retaliate better - your guess). W also is a huge slow and thus awesome for setting up engagements. Janna is an offensive support, not a defensive. most of the time i max w, the only times i max shield is when A) i trust my lane buddy to not be terrible, and B) when he's playing some1 with long range, and therefore can more easily switch between farming and harassing (primarily cait and ez, tho sometimes kog) investing a few extra points in shield early on is important vs zilean too, but i pretty much never play that matchup. i always max w first in solo queue tho | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 01 2012 18:57 UniversalSnip wrote: xpecial maxes shield first, I trust xpecial I don't trust people who build HoG on support 24/7. | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
thinking about it situationally there are times when w will be better, and times when e will be better | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 01 2012 19:00 spinesheath wrote: I don't trust people who build HoG on support 24/7. Nhat maxes shield first, I trust Nhat. On January 01 2012 19:10 unichan wrote: you know what sounds like a good idea thinking about it situationally there are times when w will be better, and times when e will be better Dumbest thing I've read all day, clearly Q is best 100% of the time. Also gp10 yellows are good, it's free gold, Nhat runs them aswell. @ Shikyo, trynd isn't OP he gets stomped by quite some champs in lane, some that can even kill him trough ult(pant if done well early and jax with tabi). | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Well, I guess except for the "because X does it" argument. Do people assume that supports don't scale? Do people assume that it's better to get a gold/10 20 minutes into the game, instead of 10? Do people assume that supports are bad earlygame? Do people assume that supports have no impact in fights? | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
I just think it's funny people say you shouldn't ever be in a position to get hit on a support, you don't need to open hp pots on soraka because you don't need it etc, yet gp10 yellows are bad because you need shit like armour seals or whatever. The reason you don't run gp10 yellows on range AD's(although you really could) is because you are actually farming, and you will be taking hits(if you go armour yellows), or you can go attackspeed for a faster auto attack animation which can net you more gold, and more damage. While we're at it, could you tell me why ad/arp quints are so much better on ranged AD's than on a support? As a support you have no gold income and you are supposed to buy things, gp10seals make that easier. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
B.) Supports can forgo mp5 or armor yellows because they 1.) build regen as their core, 2.) are trading damage less than the AD carries, and 3.) have armor reds. C.) Supports get no farm, which means delayed gp10 items set your overall build exponentially further back. On the few in-your-face supports that get used, armor yellows are still common choices. Flat armor does very for a support little once team-fights start, meaning their primary purpose is the laning phase. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 01 2012 20:22 JackDino wrote: I'm sure that having 13more armour will let you do so many more things in a teamfight as a support. I just think it's funny people say you shouldn't ever be in a position to get hit on a support, you don't need to open hp pots on soraka because you don't need it etc, yet gp10 yellows are bad because you need shit like armour seals or whatever. The reason you don't run gp10 yellows on range AD's(although you really could) is because you are actually farming, and you will be taking hits. While we're at it, could you tell me why ad/arp quints are so much better on ranged AD's than on a support? As a support you have no gold income and you are supposed to buy things, gp10seals make that easier. Soraka is a special case as she can be played purely defensive, and I've always treated her as a special case. Janna, Sona, Alistar, Taric, whatever, are all offensive to some extent. Your AD should take less damage in lane than your support: The AD farms, the support does the harrassing. If your support is just sitting behind the AD he is bad. Oh and I was thinking about gold/10 items there, should have said it. Gold/10 seals are bad anyways, and AD over gold/10 quints on the AD is obvious once you realize that AD quints actually improve your lasthitting no matter how good you are. I'm not gonna tell you why AD/Apen quints are better on ranged ADs than on supports, because I don't even think they are (depending on the support - obviously a support that doesn't autoattack much doesn't get anything out of those). On January 01 2012 20:25 Craton wrote: A.) Supports can get armor reds because they get little out of mpen/apen/ad B.) Supports can forgo mp5 or armor yellows because they 1.) build regen as their core, 2.) are trading damage less than the AD carries, and 3.) have armor reds. C.) Supports get no farm, which means delayed gp10 items set your overall build exponentially (logarithmically?) further back. All of this pretty much assumes that the support plays passive and doesn't do anything in lane. Which is just bad for anyone but Soraka (and only one style of Soraka) in most cases. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 01 2012 20:32 spinesheath wrote: Soraka is a special case as she can be played purely defensive, and I've always treated her as a special case. Janna, Sona, Alistar, Taric, whatever, are all offensive to some extent. Your AD should take less damage in lane than your support: The AD farms, the support does the harrassing. If your support is just sitting behind the AD he is bad. Oh and I was thinking about gold/10 items there, should have said it. Gold/10 seals are bad anyways, and AD over gold/10 quints on the AD is obvious once you realize that AD quints actually improve your lasthitting no matter how good you are. I'm not gonna tell you why AD/Apen quints are better on ranged ADs than on supports, because I don't even think they are (depending on the support - obviously a support that doesn't autoattack much doesn't get anything out of those). So you don't think that AD/Apen quints on ranged ads, who autoattack ALL GAME LONG are not better than running AD/ARP quints on a support who out attacks only in the laning phase? K, great to know. I never mentioned gold/10 quints on an AD, no clue why you're bringing that up. You think gp10 is bad, that's fine. Don't tell other people that gp10 is bad just because you think so, having some kind of gold income when you have no other gold income is never bad. I can think of 1 reason why gp10 is bad tho, because X says so. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
WoTa is an incredible item, why aren't you getting it on your ad carries? Why aren't you getting Aegis, oracle or starks on your ads if it's so good? Why don't you open dblade on your support? See I can ask retarded stuff that might look smart aswell, doesn't make it a solid argument though. To answer your question, I'll use your own answer. AD over GP10 items on the AD is obvious once you realize that AD items actually improve your lasthitting no matter how good you are. | ||
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