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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 28

Forum Index > LoL General
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Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 09:29:18
January 01 2012 09:28 GMT
#541
i meant from the 3 there -_-\
ah i wasnt very clear wups lol
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
January 01 2012 09:30 GMT
#542
Of those three choices Shaco is easily the strongest pubstomper, completely disrupts the game against people who don't play against him properly. However, he's almost always banned at almost all Elo currently. The same goes for Kassadin. GP isn't banned as much and isn't quite as crazy a snowballer but he's certainly strong and a big factor all game long.
3.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 09:37:53
January 01 2012 09:37 GMT
#543
If you're good with shaco he'd be my top choice out of those 3 for a pubstomper, but that's mainly because bads are horrible against any jungler that can gank often.

Kass is a better pubstomper overall, but gp is a safer choice for you to win a game, if that makes sense. (since bad players know at least "oh no, fed kass, gotta build MR" but when they see a fed tanky gp they just say something moronic like "don't focus the tank!")
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
January 01 2012 09:41 GMT
#544
On January 01 2012 15:49 starfries wrote:
Stuck at home with the New Year's flu :/. Happy New Year, everybody.
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2012 06:21 spinesheath wrote:
On January 01 2012 06:08 starfries wrote:
On January 01 2012 05:13 spinesheath wrote:
A couple of runepages I would consider on Janna depending on the matchup, off the top of my head:
AR AR MR AR
AR AR MR GP10
MR AR MR MR
MR AR MR GP10
APen AR MR AD
APen AR MR AR
APen AR MR MSpd
MPen AR MR AP
In 99% of the cases: No MP5, no MR/L, no AP/L.

Is that last page for AP mid Janna? O_o
I remember on one stream Doublelift and Chauster (I think) were saying that AP Janna was actually pretty decent.

And what do you think of flat HP quints?
edit: or even HP regen

Nope, all pure support Janna. If you go for that last page, you better max W though, as you should anyways unless you are forced to do something else.

I always maxed shield but I don't really know what I'm doing on Janna lol
What's the idea here? Do you just keep tossing Ws at them to harass? Is it better than shielding your carry and letting them take shots?

Your ranged AD is busy farming. W is way stronger for harrass than E (600 range single cast vs 500 range 5 seconds of autoattacking, which case allows the enemy to retaliate better - your guess). W also is a huge slow and thus awesome for setting up engagements. Janna is an offensive support, not a defensive.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
January 01 2012 09:50 GMT
#545
On January 01 2012 18:41 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2012 15:49 starfries wrote:
Stuck at home with the New Year's flu :/. Happy New Year, everybody.
On January 01 2012 06:21 spinesheath wrote:
On January 01 2012 06:08 starfries wrote:
On January 01 2012 05:13 spinesheath wrote:
A couple of runepages I would consider on Janna depending on the matchup, off the top of my head:
AR AR MR AR
AR AR MR GP10
MR AR MR MR
MR AR MR GP10
APen AR MR AD
APen AR MR AR
APen AR MR MSpd
MPen AR MR AP
In 99% of the cases: No MP5, no MR/L, no AP/L.

Is that last page for AP mid Janna? O_o
I remember on one stream Doublelift and Chauster (I think) were saying that AP Janna was actually pretty decent.

And what do you think of flat HP quints?
edit: or even HP regen

Nope, all pure support Janna. If you go for that last page, you better max W though, as you should anyways unless you are forced to do something else.

I always maxed shield but I don't really know what I'm doing on Janna lol
What's the idea here? Do you just keep tossing Ws at them to harass? Is it better than shielding your carry and letting them take shots?

Your ranged AD is busy farming. W is way stronger for harrass than E (600 range single cast vs 500 range 5 seconds of autoattacking, which case allows the enemy to retaliate better - your guess). W also is a huge slow and thus awesome for setting up engagements. Janna is an offensive support, not a defensive.


most of the time i max w, the only times i max shield is when A) i trust my lane buddy to not be terrible, and B) when he's playing some1 with long range, and therefore can more easily switch between farming and harassing (primarily cait and ez, tho sometimes kog)

investing a few extra points in shield early on is important vs zilean too, but i pretty much never play that matchup.

i always max w first in solo queue tho
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
January 01 2012 09:57 GMT
#546
xpecial maxes shield first, I trust xpecial
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
January 01 2012 10:00 GMT
#547
On January 01 2012 18:57 UniversalSnip wrote:
xpecial maxes shield first, I trust xpecial

I don't trust people who build HoG on support 24/7.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
unichan
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States4223 Posts
January 01 2012 10:10 GMT
#548
you know what sounds like a good idea
thinking about it situationally
there are times when w will be better, and times when e will be better
:)
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
January 01 2012 10:22 GMT
#549
Yep; level shield first on Janna and W second. Shield AD either before they take damage or as they're laying down some burst. Early on it's common to shield yourself and take minion aggro while your AD takes a few shots.
twitch.tv/cratonz
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 10:50:50
January 01 2012 10:48 GMT
#550
On January 01 2012 19:00 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2012 18:57 UniversalSnip wrote:
xpecial maxes shield first, I trust xpecial

I don't trust people who build HoG on support 24/7.

Nhat maxes shield first, I trust Nhat.
On January 01 2012 19:10 unichan wrote:
you know what sounds like a good idea
thinking about it situationally
there are times when w will be better, and times when e will be better

Dumbest thing I've read all day, clearly Q is best 100% of the time.
Also gp10 yellows are good, it's free gold, Nhat runs them aswell.
@ Shikyo, trynd isn't OP he gets stomped by quite some champs in lane, some that can even kill him trough ult(pant if done well early and jax with tabi).
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 11:27:56
January 01 2012 11:16 GMT
#551
Could someone already tell me why gold/10 (ITEMS) is supposed to be so much better on supports than, say, ranged ADs? I run into contradictions no matter what line of thought I try.
Well, I guess except for the "because X does it" argument.

Do people assume that supports don't scale? Do people assume that it's better to get a gold/10 20 minutes into the game, instead of 10? Do people assume that supports are bad earlygame? Do people assume that supports have no impact in fights?
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 11:28:22
January 01 2012 11:22 GMT
#552
I'm sure that having 13more armour will let you do so many more things in a teamfight as a support.
I just think it's funny people say you shouldn't ever be in a position to get hit on a support, you don't need to open hp pots on soraka because you don't need it etc, yet gp10 yellows are bad because you need shit like armour seals or whatever.

The reason you don't run gp10 yellows on range AD's(although you really could) is because you are actually farming, and you will be taking hits(if you go armour yellows), or you can go attackspeed for a faster auto attack animation which can net you more gold, and more damage.
While we're at it, could you tell me why ad/arp quints are so much better on ranged AD's than on a support?
As a support you have no gold income and you are supposed to buy things, gp10seals make that easier.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 11:34:46
January 01 2012 11:25 GMT
#553
A.) Supports can get armor reds because they get little out of mpen/apen/ad
B.) Supports can forgo mp5 or armor yellows because they 1.) build regen as their core, 2.) are trading damage less than the AD carries, and 3.) have armor reds.
C.) Supports get no farm, which means delayed gp10 items set your overall build exponentially further back.

On the few in-your-face supports that get used, armor yellows are still common choices.

Flat armor does very for a support little once team-fights start, meaning their primary purpose is the laning phase.
twitch.tv/cratonz
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 11:36:45
January 01 2012 11:32 GMT
#554
On January 01 2012 20:22 JackDino wrote:
I'm sure that having 13more armour will let you do so many more things in a teamfight as a support.
I just think it's funny people say you shouldn't ever be in a position to get hit on a support, you don't need to open hp pots on soraka because you don't need it etc, yet gp10 yellows are bad because you need shit like armour seals or whatever.

The reason you don't run gp10 yellows on range AD's(although you really could) is because you are actually farming, and you will be taking hits. While we're at it, could you tell me why ad/arp quints are so much better on ranged AD's than on a support?
As a support you have no gold income and you are supposed to buy things, gp10seals make that easier.

Soraka is a special case as she can be played purely defensive, and I've always treated her as a special case.
Janna, Sona, Alistar, Taric, whatever, are all offensive to some extent. Your AD should take less damage in lane than your support: The AD farms, the support does the harrassing. If your support is just sitting behind the AD he is bad.

Oh and I was thinking about gold/10 items there, should have said it. Gold/10 seals are bad anyways, and AD over gold/10 quints on the AD is obvious once you realize that AD quints actually improve your lasthitting no matter how good you are.

I'm not gonna tell you why AD/Apen quints are better on ranged ADs than on supports, because I don't even think they are (depending on the support - obviously a support that doesn't autoattack much doesn't get anything out of those).

On January 01 2012 20:25 Craton wrote:
A.) Supports can get armor reds because they get little out of mpen/apen/ad
B.) Supports can forgo mp5 or armor yellows because they 1.) build regen as their core, 2.) are trading damage less than the AD carries, and 3.) have armor reds.
C.) Supports get no farm, which means delayed gp10 items set your overall build exponentially (logarithmically?) further back.

All of this pretty much assumes that the support plays passive and doesn't do anything in lane. Which is just bad for anyone but Soraka (and only one style of Soraka) in most cases.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
January 01 2012 11:35 GMT
#555
That's not what happens in my games with 1800-2300 players.
twitch.tv/cratonz
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
January 01 2012 11:36 GMT
#556
On January 01 2012 20:32 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2012 20:22 JackDino wrote:
I'm sure that having 13more armour will let you do so many more things in a teamfight as a support.
I just think it's funny people say you shouldn't ever be in a position to get hit on a support, you don't need to open hp pots on soraka because you don't need it etc, yet gp10 yellows are bad because you need shit like armour seals or whatever.

The reason you don't run gp10 yellows on range AD's(although you really could) is because you are actually farming, and you will be taking hits. While we're at it, could you tell me why ad/arp quints are so much better on ranged AD's than on a support?
As a support you have no gold income and you are supposed to buy things, gp10seals make that easier.

Soraka is a special case as she can be played purely defensive, and I've always treated her as a special case.
Janna, Sona, Alistar, Taric, whatever, are all offensive to some extent. Your AD should take less damage in lane than your support: The AD farms, the support does the harrassing. If your support is just sitting behind the AD he is bad.

Oh and I was thinking about gold/10 items there, should have said it. Gold/10 seals are bad anyways, and AD over gold/10 quints on the AD is obvious once you realize that AD quints actually improve your lasthitting no matter how good you are.

I'm not gonna tell you why AD/Apen quints are better on ranged ADs than on supports, because I don't even think they are (depending on the support - obviously a support that doesn't autoattack much doesn't get anything out of those).

So you don't think that AD/Apen quints on ranged ads, who autoattack ALL GAME LONG are not better than running AD/ARP quints on a support who out attacks only in the laning phase? K, great to know.
I never mentioned gold/10 quints on an AD, no clue why you're bringing that up.
You think gp10 is bad, that's fine. Don't tell other people that gp10 is bad just because you think so, having some kind of gold income when you have no other gold income is never bad.
I can think of 1 reason why gp10 is bad tho, because X says so.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
January 01 2012 11:38 GMT
#557
I dunno why he's perpetually on a crusade against gp10 even though everyone uses them with great success.
twitch.tv/cratonz
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
January 01 2012 11:54 GMT
#558
If gold/10 items are so good, why are you not getting them on ranged AD or AP mid? Much earlier than a support would, too, which should be even better.

User was warned for this post
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 11:56:58
January 01 2012 11:56 GMT
#559
Why do you keep asking that when it was already explained. You're being obstinate for the sake of being annoying.
twitch.tv/cratonz
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-01 12:17:57
January 01 2012 11:57 GMT
#560
I'm not even getting any gp10 on supports other than philo lol, and if you really want to have this argument then stop asking retarded troll questions. I haven't even mentioned gp10 items, all I mentioned were gp10 seals, nothing else.
WoTa is an incredible item, why aren't you getting it on your ad carries? Why aren't you getting Aegis, oracle or starks on your ads if it's so good?
Why don't you open dblade on your support?
See I can ask retarded stuff that might look smart aswell, doesn't make it a solid argument though.
To answer your question, I'll use your own answer.
AD over GP10 items on the AD is obvious once you realize that AD items actually improve your lasthitting no matter how good you are.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
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