EPTI don't know how much traffic we're going to get as a hidden forum but I'm sure we would get a lot, possibly enough to warrant several sub-forums, if we were un-hidden but this is of course a SC first site, so I don't know.
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
I don't know how much traffic we're going to get as a hidden forum but I'm sure we would get a lot, possibly enough to warrant several sub-forums, if we were un-hidden but this is of course a SC first site, so I don't know. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
http://liquidlol.wikispaces.com/ | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On July 12 2011 10:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Ok, GO 1) The LoL General Discussion thread is used kind of like an IRC chatroom. As such, it is chock-full of posts with very little content in them. This is not necessarily a bad thing- it's just different, in the sense that you don't have an equivalent of that for BW or SC2. IMO, regardless of how you structure sub-forums and whatnot, the general discussion thread will always be a huge, sprawling thread. If anything, the problem here isn't that there's too many posts, it's that the more interesting and insightful posts and discussions (for instance, anything Moonbear posts) are buried under pages and pages of "IRC chatter", and users who aren't willing to read several pages of chatter a day miss out on those little gems that they would be interested in reading. Not sure how to fix this TBH. 2) Champion discussion threads are full of useful discussion typically, the problem is that ideally you also want an OP that gives you useful information for getting to know a champion in terms of playstyle, counterplay and how to build them- here's an example of a champion thread that doesn't have that. We already have enough champion threads with useless OPs that the only solutions I see to resolve that would be to either: a) Give some users moderation powers for the LoL subforum(s), so they can edit the OPs of inactive users into something useful; basically, if you want to keep the privilege of 'owning' the opening post of a champion discussion thread, you need to keep said post updated, otherwise a local 'mod' will take over (is it even possible to make someone a mod only for the LoL subforum?), or b) Create a "LoLiquipedia" where users other than the OP can edit in information to the main page about a champion (obviously). 3) More moderation = better, as long as the rules are clear about it- I'd keep moderation pretty lax in the General Discussion thread for instance, but more strict in the Patch Notes thread or Champion Discussion threads. However, to police bad advice you'd pretty much need users who understand LoL to act as the police officers. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
Champions thread should be threads with discution about how ppl play the champs. Right now, half of champions's ops are a mini guide by 1 guy, who will more or less actualize it regulary, the discution is more about the guide itself than the champion I think champions discution OPs should have: 1) brief description of the champion; 2) quotes of "mini-guides" or usefull tips that will be posted in the threads, possibly (hopefully) with a version/patch information. 3) Some sort of rating sistem (not sure how) or something to help new users decide witch guide they want to follow/is more accepted by the comunity/is less trollish. We can also have tournament sub-sub-forum or threads, not sure if it is worth the effort tho, having organising threads keeps the forum clean yes, but require a lot of work to keep up to date. There's also the case of the extremely random thread, the ESL thread or something, while it strated to organise and promote the TL LoL team, it ended with discutions about tournaments (live reporting sometimes) and other very random stuff. For the dreamhack, some1 made a very nice post for each days and it was very clean and helpfull, with alot of the TL vibe to it. Not sure if we can make more of those for various minor LoL tournaments, but keeping the live reporting/discution of those on various threads isn't good i think | ||
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Attakijing
United States693 Posts
On July 12 2011 11:51 ketchup wrote: 1.) I'm not much of a poster, but I can tell you that I enjoy GD thread, and hope you will not hurt the current style too much. As said by many above, the general discussion thread is by far the best. I read it during work(participate rarely if at all. Lurk mode ftw). I won't say it's always the best advice, but it IS entertaining at times. another lurker chiming in to agree with this post fully. if it ain't broke don't fix it. | ||
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JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
On July 12 2011 13:05 Zato-1 wrote: 2) Champion discussion threads are full of useful discussion typically, the problem is that ideally you also want an OP that gives you useful information for getting to know a champion in terms of playstyle, counterplay and how to build them- here's an example of a champion thread that doesn't have that. We already have enough champion threads with useless OPs that the only solutions I see to resolve that would be to either: a) Give some users moderation powers for the LoL subforum(s), so they can edit the OPs of inactive users into something useful; basically, if you want to keep the privilege of 'owning' the opening post of a champion discussion thread, you need to keep said post updated, otherwise a local 'mod' will take over (is it even possible to make someone a mod only for the LoL subforum?), or b) Create a "LoLiquipedia" where users other than the OP can edit in information to the main page about a champion (obviously). To add on to this point, I think that people who want to make updates to defunct threads can PM a mod with the changes and a mod can edit them into the OP. Preferably they will send in the changes with enough detail that the mod can just copy/paste them. Otherwise it will just be a hassle for the mod. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power. That is all. | ||
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Brambled
United States750 Posts
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LancerStarcraft
United States235 Posts
1) I love the general discussion thread, I've probably learned more about this game lurking that thread than any one thing short of actually playing the game. It's not real coherent but the level of posting on this forum in general is far and away the best I've encountered in any forum, ever. (And I've lurked ALOT of forums). Maybe you could just create a new GD thread every month, then archive each one as the new month hits so people can go back and look at them if they want. 2) Yeah some of the champ threads are ridiculously out-of-date and more helpful than hurtful. I personally kind of like the idea of having a wiki style champ thread system, where there's an OP of general info about the champ (Abilities, stats, scaling, ect.) with a way to create guides and submit them to the general community for approval, and if the community approves then the guide goes on the "wiki" page of that champ. 3) Personally I have no opinion on moderation so I'll defer to the real posters here for that, all I'll say is that I have yet to see a blatantly bannable post on these forums ever. I would also caution against the idea of moderating "bad" advice. I think that's a slippery slope that you should just avoid altogether. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
LoL is not a game like starcraft where bad advice is more obvious. Not that LoL is more complex in general but it has so many factors that come from both the very high number of game features (from champions to runes to strategies etc.) and playstiles. You can see that from the history of dota, where ppl would generally agree on stuff being viable/not viable and suddenly a team/player comes and proves everybody wrong in a tournament for example. In LoL this also happened many times so far. The reason for this is that is related to the misuse of the term "metagame". Moba players tend to describe the general consensus on the current playstile(s) as "metagame" which implies "his is how it's done. end of story". Also the dunning kruger effect has a way bigger impact on the LoL community and mobas in general because of two reasons: a) lol is a teamgame and it's easy to blame others and b) it is constantly evolving which makes it easy to blame imbalance. Pls consider these factors/problems when your planning on moderating "bad advice". EDIT: some random things that were considered viable/not viable and suddenly disproven: - roaming had a sudden introduction into LoL after being not even looked at for a long time - the ap-burst gragas build was popularised by Shushey in the last dreamhack tournament, after there was a general consensus that gragas is an at least less viable champion than most others. - the general team lineups and strategies have changed drastically over the last months - lee sin was considered bad for a longer time after his latest patch and only very slowly was picked/banned into competitive play (although still a "specialist" champion). - vladimir was not touched for a longer time and suddenly appeared again with more refined play/builds so he had to be nerfed. the list goes on. I suggest if you really want to moderate this then you have to pick up very good players. Even on the highest level there are different kinds of players that differ in their qualities alot. Some of them have very strong instincts and mechanics but are stubborn in their beliefs. Others are good leaders, others are strong at lanedominance etc. You see there are so many opinions and styles that it is not easy to differ from good and bad at all. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Champion threads need to be held to higher standards. If the Summoner Names list could somehow be automated/streamlined... KOPF does a great job but it would be nice if there were no job to do. How feasible this is, I do not know. Some sort of tournament thread would be nice as well. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
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Attakijing
United States693 Posts
Splitting up general discussion would really limit the discussion as well as directing it towards more pragmatic topics. If someone has something silly to say they will feel comfortable in the general discussion thread but might not feel comfortable saying it if they have to decide between strategy, discussion and tournaments. It could also split the "IRC chat" into three social groups, which could really decrease the feeling that this is a singular community. If moonbear makes a lot of informative posts that need to be highlighted, some guy from the community should feel comfortable making a thread titled "things you should know that i learned from moonbear" or whatever. Allowing senior members mod powers to edit these OPs would help in repurposing threads as well. Like I said I have read a lot of forums and this is one of the best. It's a rare gem of a community and we have already done the hard work of finding a group of smart people that will tell their friends about it. Now you just need to let them govern their domain. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On July 12 2011 15:05 Attakijing wrote: After making my earlier post I realized i actually have something to contribute. I have read a lot of forums and I believe that mod favoritism and election based on prestige alone, as locodoco jokingly suggested, is actually crucial to keeping the community alive. This is because it feeds the egos of the forum superstars as well as the other members, who enjoy their prestige vicariously. If the mods are completely impartial to seniority the only thing separating this from the LoL general forums is the current community, moderation and the ability for people to find this forum in the first place. Conflict between senior members and mods (as in this thread) can be alientating to the people we should be ennobling. Splitting up general discussion would really limit the discussion as well as directing it towards more pragmatic topics. If someone has something silly to say they will feel comfortable in the general discussion thread but might not feel comfortable saying it if they have to decide between strategy, discussion and tournaments. It could also split the "IRC chat" into three social groups, which could really decrease the feeling that this is a singular community. If moonbear makes a lot of informative posts that need to be highlighted, some guy from the community should feel comfortable making a thread titled "things you should know that i learned from moonbear" or whatever. Allowing senior members mod powers to edit these OPs would help in repurposing threads as well. Like I said I have read a lot of forums and this is one of the best. It's a rare gem of a community and we have already done the hard work of finding a group of smart people that will tell their friends about it. Now you just need to let them govern their domain. This man speaks truth. MOONBEAR FOR MOD | ||
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locodoco
Korea (South)1615 Posts
On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote: 1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it! 2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power. That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list | ||
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Xedat
Germany358 Posts
What I think would be a good idea is having a "simple question, simple answer" thread like in the sc2 section, so everyone that has something smart to say can do it and the more serious questions don't get drowned in chit chat. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
 Though i think we could lessen the post numbers at the GD forums if we had separate "current metagame" thread (we could keep our talk about how malz is suber strong laner, how unstoppable is solo top ww/udyr, etc. There's a lot of posts like that so the topic wouldn't die and at the same time moving posts related to this topic from GD wouldn't have killed the GD). 2) Yeaah, i hate it when people create posts before/soon after champ release, probably just because they want to have their name stated as the creator of topic. We should either set some time limit (no champ thread unless the champ has been out for 2-3 weeks) or restrict creating topics about new champs to "veterans". Or both (no champ thread for the first 2 weeks after champ's release unless some vet creates one) 3) This is the tricky part. I don't think we should "punish" bad advice in any way. Highlighting good posts is really good idea though and we really could use our "own" mini-mods (if only for the fact that some people don't update the topics that much, not to mention the fact that some posts are kind of "inside stuff" that isn't that easy to judge from the outside) | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat. Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821 | ||
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