|
Valhalla18444 Posts
Hi jerks
so, let's say hypothetically we have a little more manpower around here and we can actually organize things better. TL LoL is pretty lively these days (general discussion thread has over 20k posts rofl), and after talking to some LoL players from the boards I've been thinking that the current setup is kinda restrictive for a number of reasons. I think this game is pretty badass, so I'm looking to make some changes that will create a tidier LoL section that has a little more freedom of discussion than one thread, as well as better access to better maintained resources.
Since this is TeamLiquid, we are going to discuss this to death both here and in the staff forum (not you guys though LOL), so the sooner we have a legitimate plan the sooner we will actually see changes.
If you have any suggestions, or things you'd like to see, please post them here. In the meantime here's some specific things I'd like some feedback on:
1) The general discussion thread. We started this subforum in the first place because the old LoL discussion thread was massive. This is evidently still a problem. How should we fix this? It's not a problem in the BW and SC2 sections because there are separate subforums for discussion, strategy, and tournaments. Do we need something like that here? Is there really enough traffic to warrant it?
2) Champion threads. These are intended to be a resource, but there are a few issues with how they're implemented right now. I think ideally we'd have specific people open specific champion threads and require those threads to be thorough and up-to-date, at least in terms of things like stats and ability changes in patches. How should we deal with champion threads that are posted before champion release? Maybe we need a new champ discussion/speculation thread.
3) Moderation. I've heard a lot of complaints that bad advice isn't policed around here. We can moderate more thoroughly, even recruit additional LoL playing people to moderate champion threads and police bad advice, but we justify doing so in the BW and SC2 strategy sections because there's a constant flow of contribution, and a structure that makes it readable. Basically I want to know how seriously you want TL to take this game.
Ok, GO
|
1) the general thread is still pretty massive because it mostly ends up being a random chat/news thread. relevant champion information usually trickles down to the appropriate threads when the time comes. I like being able to just read 1 thread and be like "oh thats a cool random thing i didnt know about"
2) I think there should be some kind of organization with champion threads, probably a restriction on who can start one would be a good idea ( maybe just moderators?)
a new champ thread would be a good idea to cut down on pre-release champion threads that contribute almost nothing.
3) yes please more moderation. I feel it would make it a lot easier to read good advice (maybe like the sc2 forums where some posts are highlighted because they have proven good contributions?)
I'm going out to drink but ill write more later
|
1) Its fine because this a much smaller community where you know almost every frequent poster so there obviously is a lot of rather casual chatting. I thing the general discussion thread is actually really good, it's never too offtopic or unproductive and almost always produces some interesting discussions
2) Yea, I think the person who makes a champ threads needs to give an updated and accurate OP or else someone else gets the thread or something. Or you just take some prominent forum members and let them make all the threads.
3) Tbh I think it's fine now, maybe 1-2 mods from this forum to restrict real bad or trolling adivce (unless its obvious sarcasm advice OFC)
tl;dr CHANGE - DO NOT WANT
But of course TL can pick up our LoL team anytime they want <3
|
|
|
General discussion is really nice currently. Its just usually filled with the simple Q&A, some tournament live reports and simple chit chat. Sc2 is able to handle that with live report threads for tournaments but LoL doesn't have very many and unless its a big event such as Dreamhack there isn't much discussion about it here.
Possible to add a monthly topic such as the sc2 one for theorycrafting and simple questions. Which would eliminate a bit of posts from the general discussion thread.
Updated champion guides would be really important as well. Since that would also eliminate a lot of questions. However finding people to maintain them might be challenging. Though I don't see it being a huge problem. I wouldn't have an issue writing up a few of them.
The moderation isn't much of a problem. However you are slacking on player interviews.
|
On another note, the thing with the SC boards is that they are fucking massive. And the bigger a forum gets, the larger the shit percentage gets. This is why it needs such strict moderation and rules. But this forum has a rather small posting community and thus a really good average posting quality when it comes to this game. Making this subforum bigger will inevitably decrease the average posting quality and harsher moderation will be needed. However with how the board is right the methods used for the SC boards really aren't necessary here.
|
United States47024 Posts
1) I can't see how a lot of the Gen. Discussion stuff could really move. Most of it is pretty general. I think there have been several attempts at item discussion threads, but most of them didn't really get off the ground. I suppose if people were ok with fast thread turnover, you could probably make short-term threads for LRing streams/small events (e.g. Go4LoLs).
2) I think the big thing with champ threads is that it's pretty hard the way TL is set up to really turn the thread over to someone else--the way this game works, you can't really guarantee that someone's going to be playing the same champ and be as knowledgeable as they can be about them 2-3 months down the road, particularly with hugely shifting champ viability every patch.
3) This one's a touchy issue. I feel overall there should be more moderation, but if you're trying to moderate "bad" advice, you sort of have to be careful drawing the line between what's "bad", and what might have a reasonable logic that's worth discussing, but still ultimately not that good.
|
Basically I want to know how seriously you want TL to take this game.
A real sponsored team imo?
But that's a different matter entirely. :D
Honestly as far as the subforums are concerned, I think they work pretty well. When it comes to detailed champion guides/discussion, I'm not sure how much greater they're going to be than what they currently are, since it is always much easier to go to a place like Solomid/League Wiki or *shudder* Mobafire/leaguecraft to get your detailed guides/vids with awesome graphics and pictures and stuff. The current TL guides are great for finding a whole bunch of info/discussion on your fave champ, and often some really good strats/guides, but I don't see them ever being much more than that, even if they are constantly updated, which many of them already are.
It's just the natural limitation of what TL forums are capable of.
|
1: General Discussion thread: Fine, it's perfect now except possibly reset the thread every few month if you don't like it being so cluttered.
2: Champion threads are hard to fix without dedicated people making them. There is some useful disucssion but a lot of it is outdated. Quick fix is to get people to fill in any patch note changes since the guide was released in a spoiler and the date the patch was out, that way people don't get utterly confused with posts because they know what patch they were in when they made the post.
3: I guess if somebody gives flat out bad advice usually they'll be someone to shoot it down, never noticed anything that needed moderated at least compared to the sc2 forum where its much, much easier to give bad advice. In LoL a lot of things are situationally good so it's hard to give bad advice for all situations.
|
1. I think it's fine. I actually like having a thread that's just random jumbles or whatever is on TL LoL players minds atm lol.
2. Yea, champ thread creators should definitely update. Or they could be like an open wiki thing? I remember barbsq (i think it was) had an idea about making a communal account to make champion threads, which would be accessible by notable members of the TL LoL community. I think that's a good idea.
3. Yea, more moderation to help weed out bad advice could be nice I guess. I dont think it needs to be the extent of the SC threads tho. There are always plenty of high elo players around here ready to pwn some nub's opinions.
|
1- I enjoy the GD thread. It ends up turning into long discussions were we can actually come to decent conclusions. The free flowing nature of this definitely helps, especially since lol has a lot of "little" topics rather than 3 main ones (zerg, toss, terran).
2- Champ threads need to be redone. I personally want to kill someone every time a new champ thread is opened either before the champ is even released, or by someone who complies basic information, then asks, "well, how do I play so and so." The gragas thread is a good example of this.
3- Just do a similar system to the SC2 strategy forum. Those of us who are semi intelligent have our posts bolded blue. We also need to compile the guides into a single place. Neo started, but it hasnt been updated in 6 months. That needs to change.
|
1) I really like general discussion, the only issue I have with it is that the old info in it is pretty much lost forever. I just flipped to page 317 expecting to find something that should be preserved for the ages... lo and behold, jungle heimer guide by brees. Nobody would have ever seen that jungle heimer guide again, think of what other delicate treasures are in there? We tried to solve this with the liquid lol wiki, didn't really work because it's too separated from the forums.
2) I don't think the OP for a champ thread should have anything special to contribute besides copy paste stats and text from a lol wiki, there's no correlation between somebody starting a thread and knowing the first thing about how to play a champion. If he wants to post a guide he should take the second post in the thread to do so.
3) no opinion on this
|
3. Please more moderation about bad advice or just more moderation in general. For the people that offer advice on these forums you have to take with a grain of salt unless you have played with them or know their ELO bracket. Blanket statements and trolling I think have started to arise more than when these forums opened and just makes sifting through the good and bad posts tedious.
Maybe make a new thread for each major patch that comes out? Doesn't really accomplish too much but takes posts out of the general thread and could potentially have more discussion.
|
Disagree usnip. I feel the champ threads should be used by a good player to lay out a champion. If someone wants info on a champ, they can get it in the lol wiki. A thread here should involve a guide and discussion based around someone who knows what they are doing with the champ.
|
Well, in theory, sure, but the reality is we need threads for the different champs and there is no guarantee we have, say, someone who knows nidalee really well, or a champ that just came out.
I also don't like that people will be incentivized to write a guide just so they can 'own' that champ on the forums or something.
The constant updating these guides would need is also enormously problematic. There are 79 champions, so we would need people who are skilled with and knowledgable about every one of those champs AND are willing to write a lengthy and readable guide and keep it updated. And then we would need one more of those people every two weeks. Otherwise, no discussion threads for those champs.
|
1) Yes, a General and a Strategy section would be nice, tournies would go under General.
2) The current threads are fine. A better template in the OP like solomid guides wouldn't hurt. Also should get more good players to start these threads and have them be updated. Lots of champion threads are outdated or still yet to be made.
3) I actually think LoL threads are too heavily moderated especially by mods who don't read this forum. I've not really seen anything ban worthy here.
|
On July 12 2011 11:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
1) Yes, a General and a Strategy section would be fine, tournies would go under General.
2) The current threads are fine. A better template in the OP like solomid guides wouldn't hurt. Also should get more good players to start these threads and have them be updated. Lots of champion threads are outdated or still yet to be made.
3) I actually think LoL threads are too heavily moderated especially by mods who don't read this forum. I've not really seen anything ban worthy here.
I think bly says pretty much what I would've said, only a hell of a lot better.
|
On July 12 2011 11:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
1) Yes, a General and a Strategy section would be fine, tournies would go under General.
2) The current threads are fine. A better template in the OP like solomid guides wouldn't hurt. Also should get more good players to start these threads and have them be updated. Lots of champion threads are outdated or still yet to be made.
3) I actually think LoL threads are too heavily moderated especially by mods who don't read this forum. I've not really seen anything ban worthy here.
I agree with the moderation. I feel like a lot of bans are taken out of context in this subforum.
|
1.) I'm not much of a poster, but I can tell you that I enjoy GD thread, and hope you will not hurt the current style too much. As said by many above, the general discussion thread is by far the best. I read it during work(participate rarely if at all. Lurk mode ftw). I won't say it's always the best advice, but it IS entertaining at times. The only idea I can think of is to try to create a new GD thread every time it goes over/around a certain limit. The older thread can be archived somewhere so people are able to see the history/ link relevant older discussion.
|
On July 12 2011 11:48 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
1) Yes, a General and a Strategy section would be fine, tournies would go under General.
2) The current threads are fine. A better template in the OP like solomid guides wouldn't hurt. Also should get more good players to start these threads and have them be updated. Lots of champion threads are outdated or still yet to be made.
3) I actually think LoL threads are too heavily moderated especially by mods who don't read this forum. I've not really seen anything ban worthy here. I agree with the moderation. I feel like a lot of bans are taken out of context in this subforum.
i agree with this as well
|
We definitely need sub-forums and more mods that are, I guess, LoL focused. I definitely have seen some... strange... advice to say the least and actually know people that are taking them lol
I don't know how much traffic we're going to get as a hidden forum but I'm sure we would get a lot, possibly enough to warrant several sub-forums, if we were un-hidden but this is of course a SC first site, so I don't know.
|
Thinking about the subject of champion topics and item ideas, how feasible an idea would it be to give TLoL a subsection on Liquipedia? Not having to rely on a single OP and shifting discussion more towards roles than champions might clear up some of the clutter we have here.
|
I could help out on a TLoL wiki probably
|
United States47024 Posts
|
On July 12 2011 10:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Ok, GO
1) The LoL General Discussion thread is used kind of like an IRC chatroom. As such, it is chock-full of posts with very little content in them. This is not necessarily a bad thing- it's just different, in the sense that you don't have an equivalent of that for BW or SC2. IMO, regardless of how you structure sub-forums and whatnot, the general discussion thread will always be a huge, sprawling thread. If anything, the problem here isn't that there's too many posts, it's that the more interesting and insightful posts and discussions (for instance, anything Moonbear posts) are buried under pages and pages of "IRC chatter", and users who aren't willing to read several pages of chatter a day miss out on those little gems that they would be interested in reading. Not sure how to fix this TBH.
2) Champion discussion threads are full of useful discussion typically, the problem is that ideally you also want an OP that gives you useful information for getting to know a champion in terms of playstyle, counterplay and how to build them- here's an example of a champion thread that doesn't have that. We already have enough champion threads with useless OPs that the only solutions I see to resolve that would be to either:
a) Give some users moderation powers for the LoL subforum(s), so they can edit the OPs of inactive users into something useful; basically, if you want to keep the privilege of 'owning' the opening post of a champion discussion thread, you need to keep said post updated, otherwise a local 'mod' will take over (is it even possible to make someone a mod only for the LoL subforum?), or
b) Create a "LoLiquipedia" where users other than the OP can edit in information to the main page about a champion (obviously).
3) More moderation = better, as long as the rules are clear about it- I'd keep moderation pretty lax in the General Discussion thread for instance, but more strict in the Patch Notes thread or Champion Discussion threads. However, to police bad advice you'd pretty much need users who understand LoL to act as the police officers.
|
General thread is great, lots of lulz and short random stuff that don't justify a thread in their own. Maybe add an index page to it with some informative/legendary posts?
Champions thread should be threads with discution about how ppl play the champs. Right now, half of champions's ops are a mini guide by 1 guy, who will more or less actualize it regulary, the discution is more about the guide itself than the champion
I think champions discution OPs should have: 1) brief description of the champion; 2) quotes of "mini-guides" or usefull tips that will be posted in the threads, possibly (hopefully) with a version/patch information. 3) Some sort of rating sistem (not sure how) or something to help new users decide witch guide they want to follow/is more accepted by the comunity/is less trollish.
We can also have tournament sub-sub-forum or threads, not sure if it is worth the effort tho, having organising threads keeps the forum clean yes, but require a lot of work to keep up to date.
There's also the case of the extremely random thread, the ESL thread or something, while it strated to organise and promote the TL LoL team, it ended with discutions about tournaments (live reporting sometimes) and other very random stuff. For the dreamhack, some1 made a very nice post for each days and it was very clean and helpfull, with alot of the TL vibe to it. Not sure if we can make more of those for various minor LoL tournaments, but keeping the live reporting/discution of those on various threads isn't good i think
|
On July 12 2011 11:51 ketchup wrote:
1.) I'm not much of a poster, but I can tell you that I enjoy GD thread, and hope you will not hurt the current style too much. As said by many above, the general discussion thread is by far the best. I read it during work(participate rarely if at all. Lurk mode ftw). I won't say it's always the best advice, but it IS entertaining at times.
another lurker chiming in to agree with this post fully. if it ain't broke don't fix it.
|
Vancouver14381 Posts
On July 12 2011 13:05 Zato-1 wrote:2) Champion discussion threads are full of useful discussion typically, the problem is that ideally you also want an OP that gives you useful information for getting to know a champion in terms of playstyle, counterplay and how to build them- here's an example of a champion thread that doesn't have that. We already have enough champion threads with useless OPs that the only solutions I see to resolve that would be to either: a) Give some users moderation powers for the LoL subforum(s), so they can edit the OPs of inactive users into something useful; basically, if you want to keep the privilege of 'owning' the opening post of a champion discussion thread, you need to keep said post updated, otherwise a local 'mod' will take over (is it even possible to make someone a mod only for the LoL subforum?), or b) Create a "LoLiquipedia" where users other than the OP can edit in information to the main page about a champion (obviously).
To add on to this point, I think that people who want to make updates to defunct threads can PM a mod with the changes and a mod can edit them into the OP. Preferably they will send in the changes with enough detail that the mod can just copy/paste them. Otherwise it will just be a hassle for the mod.
|
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all.
|
My only input would be to allow some of our main posters to have some mod ability to edit posts.
|
I'm more of a lurker here, but considering I basically learned how to play LoL from these forums, I figured I'd put my input in.
1) I love the general discussion thread, I've probably learned more about this game lurking that thread than any one thing short of actually playing the game. It's not real coherent but the level of posting on this forum in general is far and away the best I've encountered in any forum, ever. (And I've lurked ALOT of forums). Maybe you could just create a new GD thread every month, then archive each one as the new month hits so people can go back and look at them if they want.
2) Yeah some of the champ threads are ridiculously out-of-date and more helpful than hurtful. I personally kind of like the idea of having a wiki style champ thread system, where there's an OP of general info about the champ (Abilities, stats, scaling, ect.) with a way to create guides and submit them to the general community for approval, and if the community approves then the guide goes on the "wiki" page of that champ.
3) Personally I have no opinion on moderation so I'll defer to the real posters here for that, all I'll say is that I have yet to see a blatantly bannable post on these forums ever. I would also caution against the idea of moderating "bad" advice. I think that's a slippery slope that you should just avoid altogether.
|
the moderation part will be HARD!
LoL is not a game like starcraft where bad advice is more obvious. Not that LoL is more complex in general but it has so many factors that come from both the very high number of game features (from champions to runes to strategies etc.) and playstiles.
You can see that from the history of dota, where ppl would generally agree on stuff being viable/not viable and suddenly a team/player comes and proves everybody wrong in a tournament for example. In LoL this also happened many times so far.
The reason for this is that is related to the misuse of the term "metagame". Moba players tend to describe the general consensus on the current playstile(s) as "metagame" which implies "his is how it's done. end of story".
Also the dunning kruger effect has a way bigger impact on the LoL community and mobas in general because of two reasons: a) lol is a teamgame and it's easy to blame others and b) it is constantly evolving which makes it easy to blame imbalance.
Pls consider these factors/problems when your planning on moderating "bad advice".
EDIT:
some random things that were considered viable/not viable and suddenly disproven:
- roaming had a sudden introduction into LoL after being not even looked at for a long time
- the ap-burst gragas build was popularised by Shushey in the last dreamhack tournament, after there was a general consensus that gragas is an at least less viable champion than most others.
- the general team lineups and strategies have changed drastically over the last months
- lee sin was considered bad for a longer time after his latest patch and only very slowly was picked/banned into competitive play (although still a "specialist" champion).
- vladimir was not touched for a longer time and suddenly appeared again with more refined play/builds so he had to be nerfed.
the list goes on. I suggest if you really want to moderate this then you have to pick up very good players. Even on the highest level there are different kinds of players that differ in their qualities alot. Some of them have very strong instincts and mechanics but are stubborn in their beliefs. Others are good leaders, others are strong at lanedominance etc. You see there are so many opinions and styles that it is not easy to differ from good and bad at all.
|
General Discussion is insane. In a good way. A General Strategy thread might work, it might not. Having all that information centralized in one location is pretty nice.
Champion threads need to be held to higher standards.
If the Summoner Names list could somehow be automated/streamlined... KOPF does a great job but it would be nice if there were no job to do. How feasible this is, I do not know.
Some sort of tournament thread would be nice as well.
|
If you get some more manpower I'd really like to see a general strategy forum as well and maybe someone editing the OP with all the helpful info that pops up.
|
After making my earlier post I realized i actually have something to contribute. I have read a lot of forums and I believe that mod favoritism and election based on prestige alone, as locodoco jokingly suggested, is actually crucial to keeping the community alive. This is because it feeds the egos of the forum superstars as well as the other members, who enjoy their prestige vicariously. If the mods are completely impartial to seniority the only thing separating this from the LoL general forums is the current community, moderation and the ability for people to find this forum in the first place. Conflict between senior members and mods (as in this thread) can be alientating to the people we should be ennobling.
Splitting up general discussion would really limit the discussion as well as directing it towards more pragmatic topics. If someone has something silly to say they will feel comfortable in the general discussion thread but might not feel comfortable saying it if they have to decide between strategy, discussion and tournaments. It could also split the "IRC chat" into three social groups, which could really decrease the feeling that this is a singular community.
If moonbear makes a lot of informative posts that need to be highlighted, some guy from the community should feel comfortable making a thread titled "things you should know that i learned from moonbear" or whatever. Allowing senior members mod powers to edit these OPs would help in repurposing threads as well.
Like I said I have read a lot of forums and this is one of the best. It's a rare gem of a community and we have already done the hard work of finding a group of smart people that will tell their friends about it. Now you just need to let them govern their domain.
|
On July 12 2011 15:05 Attakijing wrote:After making my earlier post I realized i actually have something to contribute. I have read a lot of forums and I believe that mod favoritism and election based on prestige alone, as locodoco jokingly suggested, is actually crucial to keeping the community alive. This is because it feeds the egos of the forum superstars as well as the other members, who enjoy their prestige vicariously. If the mods are completely impartial to seniority the only thing separating this from the LoL general forums is the current community, moderation and the ability for people to find this forum in the first place. Conflict between senior members and mods (as in this thread) can be alientating to the people we should be ennobling. Splitting up general discussion would really limit the discussion as well as directing it towards more pragmatic topics. If someone has something silly to say they will feel comfortable in the general discussion thread but might not feel comfortable saying it if they have to decide between strategy, discussion and tournaments. It could also split the "IRC chat" into three social groups, which could really decrease the feeling that this is a singular community. If moonbear makes a lot of informative posts that need to be highlighted, some guy from the community should feel comfortable making a thread titled "things you should know that i learned from moonbear" or whatever. Allowing senior members mod powers to edit these OPs would help in repurposing threads as well. Like I said I have read a lot of forums and this is one of the best. It's a rare gem of a community and we have already done the hard work of finding a group of smart people that will tell their friends about it. Now you just need to let them govern their domain.
This man speaks truth.
MOONBEAR FOR MOD
|
On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all.
ur the first on my to-ban list
|
I also like the general discussion thread, the problem is that it has a high volume of posts every day.
What I think would be a good idea is having a "simple question, simple answer" thread like in the sc2 section, so everyone that has something smart to say can do it and the more serious questions don't get drowned in chit chat.
|
1) While it's the fact that GD topic has so much more posts than other topics on this subforum i don't think we could do much. The discussions there are much like in the real life - it's just a flow of posts and topics change naturally, it's not like someone comes in and says "hey, let's talk about this", topics change according to previous posts 
Though i think we could lessen the post numbers at the GD forums if we had separate "current metagame" thread (we could keep our talk about how malz is suber strong laner, how unstoppable is solo top ww/udyr, etc. There's a lot of posts like that so the topic wouldn't die and at the same time moving posts related to this topic from GD wouldn't have killed the GD).
2) Yeaah, i hate it when people create posts before/soon after champ release, probably just because they want to have their name stated as the creator of topic. We should either set some time limit (no champ thread unless the champ has been out for 2-3 weeks) or restrict creating topics about new champs to "veterans". Or both (no champ thread for the first 2 weeks after champ's release unless some vet creates one)
3) This is the tricky part. I don't think we should "punish" bad advice in any way. Highlighting good posts is really good idea though and we really could use our "own" mini-mods (if only for the fact that some people don't update the topics that much, not to mention the fact that some posts are kind of "inside stuff" that isn't that easy to judge from the outside)
|
is awesome32274 Posts
On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list
Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat.
Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821
|
is awesome32274 Posts
On July 12 2011 15:48 Kaniol wrote:
Though i think we could lessen the post numbers at the GD forums if we had separate "current metagame" thread (we could keep our talk about how malz is suber strong laner, how unstoppable is solo top ww/udyr, etc. There's a lot of posts like that so the topic wouldn't die and at the same time moving posts related to this topic from GD wouldn't have killed the GD).
I agree with this. We should have a "Current FOTM" thread. LoL is evolving a lot, and knowing what's good currently and how to counter it is a big key to success.
I think we lack a "rune buying guide". Everyone who's new has this question. What runes to buy, what tier, etc.
Same with champions probably. Maybe a "If you want to be competitive, this is a must have champion list".
We could make a thread for masteries discussion as well. I remember there was one for gold item efficiency, etc.
We need a "proper warding" thread as well with pictures!
While the amount of people that post here is not enormous, there's a lot of people who lurk and specially lots of guys maybe scared to try the game, or that want to learn. We can definitely do better in that aspect!
|
After reading everyone else's posts, I really feel that the General Discussion thread should just stay the way it is. It's pretty fun and interesting to see what people say. It's pretty much a IRC chat thread, but it's nice in that unlike an actual IRC, you can just drop a line, go do something, and come back at leisure.
|
I feel like the strings of coherent content in General Discussion are too short to be worth a seperate thread in the majority of cases. There are like 10, maybe 20 posts about one topic and then that's it. By turning that into threads not only do you create many tiny threads, you also push other threads off the main page. Currently you can look at the first 20 threads and you will have patch notes, general discussion, around 10 champion threads and a couple of other threads. Those champ threads are very likely to be about a champ that is rather popular at the moment. It works out pretty nicely.
Now a suggestion that goes beyond the usual forum structure:
It would be great if we had a wiki-like (sub-)subforum. Integrated into TL. It would cover all the champs and other recurring topics like those ITW mentioned. The "main" forum would then cover general discussion etc.
Afaik TL doesn't have this functionality though; it just links a normal wiki. I don't know how much you can do to customize wikis, but if you can create a frontpage that always lists all the champs in one column and the other stuff in another one then that might be good.
The wiki link would have to be displayed similar to a sticky thread.
A way to search on BOTH TL and that wiki from within TL would be epic. (same goes for the SC/SC2 wikis btw)
|
Why not just have a new general thread every week or month or something?
|
I think the champion thread is god awful to be honest, most threads are not updated properly or are just way off and old.
If someone makes a champ thread they should be responsible for keeping it up to date or it will be closed. If the creator goes inactive the new mods can go in and edit the post for more accurate information.
These mods obviously have to be respected and knowledgeable players.
And like Lafali says, A general thread per month just like SC2 section has would be a much better idea than one massive thread.
|
United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2011 10:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Hi jerks
so, let's say hypothetically we have a little more manpower around here and we can actually organize things better. TL LoL is pretty lively these days (general discussion thread has over 20k posts rofl), and after talking to some LoL players from the boards I've been thinking that the current setup is kinda restrictive for a number of reasons. I think this game is pretty badass, so I'm looking to make some changes that will create a tidier LoL section that has a little more freedom of discussion than one thread, as well as better access to better maintained resources.
Since this is TeamLiquid, we are going to discuss this to death both here and in the staff forum (not you guys though LOL), so the sooner we have a legitimate plan the sooner we will actually see changes.
If you have any suggestions, or things you'd like to see, please post them here. In the meantime here's some specific things I'd like some feedback on:
1) The general discussion thread. We started this subforum in the first place because the old LoL discussion thread was massive. This is evidently still a problem. How should we fix this? It's not a problem in the BW and SC2 sections because there are separate subforums for discussion, strategy, and tournaments. Do we need something like that here? Is there really enough traffic to warrant it?
Is a large GD thread actually a problem? Only down side I see is that if you don't check it daily, it explodes into double digit pages to read when you eventually do come back.
If, for whatever reason, high post GD thread is not what TL wants, then we need more separate threads for discussions. Livestream thread, tourney thread, patch thread (in existence but keep talk in there from now on), metagame thread, and obviously more champion threads.
As much as I love LoL, I don't think we need/deserve subforums. Our unique posters in this section barely hits 100 imo.
2) Champion threads. These are intended to be a resource, but there are a few issues with how they're implemented right now. I think ideally we'd have specific people open specific champion threads and require those threads to be thorough and up-to-date, at least in terms of things like stats and ability changes in patches. How should we deal with champion threads that are posted before champion release? Maybe we need a new champ discussion/speculation thread.
1. New champion discussion should be limited to the Patch Discussion thread when new information is initially released. New champion threads shouldn't be created until...
2. Champion threads should be opened by mods only. Reasons are twofold: first, mods are probably very active in this section, so they'll read their own threads diligently. Second, they'll update the OP more regularly due to their activity. One of the main reasons why the champion threads don't work so well (and why it's mostly cluttering up the General Discussion thread) is because champion threads are so poorly maintained.
3. These threads need to be updated per champion patch change. e.g. Annie thread probably won't have any updates in the foreseeable future. Udyr thread should have been updated last week since his changes allowed for the resurgence of Jungle Phoenix Udyr and Lanedyr.
3) Moderation. I've heard a lot of complaints that bad advice isn't policed around here. We can moderate more thoroughly, even recruit additional LoL playing people to moderate champion threads and police bad advice, but we justify doing so in the BW and SC2 strategy sections because there's a constant flow of contribution, and a structure that makes it readable. Basically I want to know how seriously you want TL to take this game.
Ok, GO
I am all for moderators in this section. I'll go into greater detail is needed but this section could be a lot better than it currently is.
|
Wow.. It seems I'm the only one that would like GD thread switch into sth like GD subforum.
It doesn't mean that it would lose this all beloved free chat feel it has.
But it would become rather more informative and easier to track for those who don't have time to read everything cluttering in there.
I like amount and diversification of information packed there but with little time I have it's sometimes frustrating to be forced to read everything.
I'd love to be able to skip some topics just by reading first post.
|
If we were to get rid of some of those defunct champion threads, I could certaintly keep one or a few up to date if they are champions I'm interested in. I like that kind of stuff, I used to it on other forums a lot.
I like ITW's suggestion about the chatter too. I think most, if not all, of it should stay in GD since, I mean, I think that's what it's partially for anyway. It actually does not bother me much but it would make the place a lot cleaner this way.
|
The only issue I see with asking people to moderate this forum, is that it feels like the average age and maturity of an LoL player is about 5 years behind that of Starcraft fans. A large majority of posts in this forum are nonsensical babble about qq, ^^, lololol, huehuehuehue, etc.
While we are a microcosm of the entire LoL community, the maturity level can't help but bleed into our little corner of the world even if TeamLiquid is officially the parent of this subforum.
|
On July 12 2011 21:13 Psyqo wrote:
The only issue I see with asking people to moderate this forum, is that it feels like the average age and maturity of an LoL player is about 5 years behind that of Starcraft fans. A large majority of posts in this forum are nonsensical babble about qq, ^^, lololol, huehuehuehue, etc.
While we are a microcosm of the entire LoL community, the maturity level can't help but bleed into our little corner of the world even if TeamLiquid is officially the parent of this subforum.
lolllll that's not true at all. The only reason you might see less retards posting on TL is because the moderating has gotten' sharp as fuck. SC2 brought in an innumerable amount of these lololol posters. Not that it's directly SC2's fault but that's just how popular it was.
|
I also think that we do need to have a few mods specific to the lol forum. Although we are part of TL, the posting culture here is a lot different from the rest of the site, and that does tend to create bans and warnings from mods that really arent worthy. A different game requires different types of discussion, and different types of moderation as well. Most of us know each other in some form or another, so there should be a bit more leeway when posting IMO.
|
I'll have a rune buying guide out later today that's a good idea ITW =)
|
let me moderate the forum please i guarantee 100% satisfaction or your money back
|
On July 12 2011 16:18 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat.Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821
Are you sure it's annoying to everyone and not just you? Like i said if you want to create a community here you will have to feed the egos of prestigious players. If you want to make an impartial subforum where anyone can talk about league of legends in with wiki-style editing and segmented discussion, that's a different goal, and one that might not sit well with the established community as it is more about recruiting new players and educating them on a central canon of information. Which do you want, a university or a community? And also, is it your place to decide? (That's not hypothetical--I don't know what TL standard practice is)
|
1. As others have said, not sure there's anything to do with the GDT. In fact I sort of prefer it being there, although I'd be fine with cleaning up some of the useless posts.
2. This is a tough nut, to be honest, because by nature threads require someone to actually keep track of it, whether it's the OP or a Mod, neither of whom are necessarily going to stay forever. This game can be frustrating, and time-consuming, and it's not out of the ordinary to have someone step away for a while to recharge, and we might see an exodus of some players in the future when DotA2 hits the shelves. In a way it may simply be better to go back to a wiki system for champions, as it'd provide a much more fluid system of keeping info in place, while having champion threads remain what they are now - a place to ask questions and discuss champions as they're affected by patches. That said I come from a Japanese background and you know us, we love dem wikis.
3. This is a bit tougher than it seems, I think. To an extent I personally prefer to have some pride in the TL LoL subforum being a great place to get knowledge. But moreso than BW/SC2 it's harder to tell when a good player is wrong, and if some bizarre idea by a not-good player happens to be a diamond in the rough. It's also worth noting that the game differs SO MUCH at different play levels, and even then the play differs drastically between solo and team, that what may be good advice for some people may be dreadful advice for others. Even if it's coming from a so-called good player. There's a lot of hero-specific advice from top-end players that I wouldn't recommend to people-not-that-person (ie. Brees' GB Udyr), but does that mean it's a bad strategy, or that it wouldn't work, or whatnot? It doesn't. And so where does the line get drawn? If a 1300 player has wild success using a strategy that 1700s consider silly, does that constitute bad advice, or is it reasonable to simply view it as a 1300s strategy?
|
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
1) I think we don't need Subforums in a subforum the same way SC2 and BW have. Not yet at least. However, it would be nice if thread titles all had markers the same way the champion threads do so they are easier to find. There should also be a directory sticky thread where it lists all the champions threads so there's no need to search. This is because some champions threads have misspellings (on purpose sometimes) which means some people might not find the thread they want by searching.
2) There needs to be a way to update the OP of a thread if the creator is not around to update it. PM-ing a Mod does not seem to be an optimal solution since I don't know who to PM. Perhaps we could have our own banlings in this subforum who could do things like this?
3) I think more moderation is good. It means cleaner forums and also OPs of threads could stay updated like I mentioned above. But they would need to come from this subforum. Too many things here could be taken out of context by random mods/admins.
As for myself, I will try to keep the Tech Thread I created updated and reply often. If there's anything else you feel I could do, I can see if I can do it.
|
On July 13 2011 01:40 MoonBear wrote:
1) I think we don't need Subforums in a subforum the same way SC2 and BW have. Not yet at least. However, it would be nice if thread titles all had markers the same way the champion threads do so they are easier to find. There should also be a directory sticky thread where it lists all the champions threads so there's no need to search. This is because some champions threads have misspellings (on purpose sometimes) which means some people might not find the thread they want by searching.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166096
:D
|
Fakesteve is a dirty sakura player however because i'm such a nice person I've decided to contribute.
INDEPTH RUNE GUIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that i didn't write
http://runeterra.com/forums/index.php?topic=1137.0
There is an underlying assumption here that you only care about the most cost effective runes. This being said if you go with all the "S Tier runes" you are essentially limited to an AD champion. (Which makes sense because AD champions take the longest to farm.
|
1) The general discussion thread.
It's cool as it is. Maybe some event-specific threads for LR/comments, but that's about it.
2) Champion threads.
What I don't like right now is that there are quite some OPs that aren't up to date at all. Usually what I do when I want info on a certain champ is google "champname+teamliquid" which leads me to his appropriate thread. Some OPs are pure info on skills, some are huge in-depth guides, some have the tl;dr sections. In my opinion it should have to be enough to read OP and last 1-2 pages to have a solid knowledge how this champ can and should be played in the current environment.
What I miss is some way to get high quality posts in champ threads more attention. Sometimes you have the high elos here throw in great posts which get kinda not seen in a 10 page thread as much as they should be. No idea though how to implement it besides mods updating the OP with quotes at the end.
Champ threads that are posted before release (as much as I love speculating in there, too) should be reset once the champ IS released. e.g. "[Speculation] Orianna" will just run out of posts and someone who's confident in writing a guide to her will open "[Champion] Orianna" once he feels ready for it.
We could think about 2 threads for each champ, one being pure discussion/Q&A etc. and the other only and I mean only for guides. I'd love that kind of splitting, but it might get confusing. Just some food for thought there.
3) Moderation.
Treat it seriously in my opinion. Bad advice should be moderated, questionable advice should be tolerated. Usually the bad stuff get's flamed down within a few pages (I remember that high elo Irelia dude in general), stuff like that shouldn't be in champ threads at all. Personally I feel as if this sub-community moderates itself pretty well by having a high enough "solid-to-newb-ratio".
Some structure as to "How should a guide look like?" / "What to ask where?" / "If you claim things that are different, please state as to why we should believe you." (similar to "Post fucking replays in strategy discussions" in the SC part) would be nice. Guess a decent "Welcome to this subforum"-thread would the trick.
I actually think LoL threads are too heavily moderated especially by mods who don't read this forum. I've not really seen anything ban worthy here.
^---100% agree here.
Edit: If stuff like "Guide on warding" "general jungle guide" "rune-buying guide" is appreciated, just give it a short shout. I'm bored for an hour or two from time to time and it would be no problem for me to make some of those.
|
On July 12 2011 16:18 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat. Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821
oh c'mon is this a classical music forum?
I can understand thread derailment, but posts that brings shits and giggles for 2 seconds does not merit some type of warning.
|
On July 13 2011 03:26 broz0rs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 16:18 IntoTheWow wrote:On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat. Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821 oh c'mon is this a classical music forum? I can understand thread derailment, but posts that brings shits and giggles for 2 seconds does not merit some type of warning.
I make a point send troll messages to any streamers on my flist, but not everyone streams and because the LoL subforum is such an inviting some individuals feel that need to share the camaraderie and good natured jabs.
|
is awesome32274 Posts
On July 13 2011 03:26 broz0rs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 16:18 IntoTheWow wrote:On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat. Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821 oh c'mon is this a classical music forum? I can understand thread derailment, but posts that brings shits and giggles for 2 seconds does not merit some type of warning.
???????
I'm not saying it merits a warning or not. I'm saying it's frustrating looking for some help and getting your thread derailed. If you read my post carefully you would have seen I said I'm not against jokes, I'm just saying we could keep the lax conversations in the GD topic.
|
Agreed.
Also we have champion specific threads which tend to get a lot of traffic during the first few weeks then dies off until the champion gets a nerf/buff and we end up with outdated irrelevant information
|
IMO best way to solve that is to have a sticky with every champ and a link to the most recent good build available. That thread can then have requests for updates which will be taken care off in the specific champ thread, updated op, ect.
|
i think everything is fine tbh except for one thing
we have champ and strategy-specific guides, and they arent' hard to find
yet every time someone comes in and posts a new topic like "can u help me play fiddle?" instead of just ignoring it, or having a mod close it, there's always 7 people that come in and say "we have champ guides in this forum, do a search for fiddle, but while i'm here, here's how to play fiddle"
it's just a pet peeve of mine imo
|
1) I agree with keeping the GD thread the same as it is currently. I'd rather have a single messy thread than a sub-sub forum full of random threads. I prefer a clean forum to read where I know exactly what I'm getting myself into when I click on a thread.
2) I think the "Guides and Builds" thread needs to be updated more regularly as well as the "Read First" thread. Perhaps in the title it should have the last update date so people will know when it's getting outdated.
3) I think the current mods (FS and ITW as well as occasional other TL mods dropping in once in a while) are fine in terms of quality control (as in keeping the garbage posts to a minimum). If we were to "hire" more mods for providing better advice, I would prefer people like Neo or Mogwai to become the sub-fourm mods (basically respected senior members who have previous mod experience and genuinely are nice about giving good advice when they want to). Mods need to be held up to a higher standard than average posters.
|
my 2 cents
1) GD thread is fine as is. as someone said earlier, its like a chatroom. contributes a lot to the general liveliness and spirit of this place.
2) I think the one thread per champ idea is... not so great. I think a better way of sorting champ guides would be to have people start a new thread for every new guide, and if its a quality guide, put it into a subforum for vetted guides. that would also help with sorting the bad advice from the good. it also keeps the discussion open but relevant to that particular guide. forget which dota site worked this way, but it seemed to work well.
|
is awesome32274 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:29 Kaneh wrote:
my 2 cents
1) GD thread is fine as is. as someone said earlier, its like a chatroom. contributes a lot to the general liveliness and spirit of this place.
2) I think the one thread per champ idea is... not so great. I think a better way of sorting champ guides would be to have people start a new thread for every new guide, and if its a quality guide, put it into a subforum for vetted guides. that would also help with sorting the bad advice from the good. it also keeps the discussion open but relevant to that particular guide. forget which dota site worked this way, but it seemed to work well.
That's would be DotA all stars site.
|
On July 12 2011 11:51 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:48 HazMat wrote:On July 12 2011 11:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
1) Yes, a General and a Strategy section would be fine, tournies would go under General.
2) The current threads are fine. A better template in the OP like solomid guides wouldn't hurt. Also should get more good players to start these threads and have them be updated. Lots of champion threads are outdated or still yet to be made.
3) I actually think LoL threads are too heavily moderated especially by mods who don't read this forum. I've not really seen anything ban worthy here. I agree with the moderation. I feel like a lot of bans are taken out of context in this subforum. i agree with this as well
LoL should still be held to the standards of Team Liquid, we still represent them, as such any situation where a mod who 'isnt part of the LoL subforum' should still be able to legitimately exercise moderation powers wherever he/she sees fit.
General discussion - dont change it imo, as far as excess flooding, if we get some proper sub-sub-forums (cue inception horn l0l0l) then we can filter out such things as simple question simple answers, tournament stuff and new champ discussions in other threads. I really like the irc feeling and it makes me feel all gushy inside
Mods - meh, mybe having some LoL specific mods might be nice, but i dont really have a problem with how things are right now. I do like the idea of a specific tag for quality posters like the blue for the sc forums. I'd nominate neo, uta, smash and moonbear for the honor, and there are others who deserve it as well, tho i think my list would get rather long, (and turkey for the Hextech tag huehuehue)
Champ threads really need to be cleaned up. I like the idea of 1 champ 1 discussion thread, and having guides in the op is fine as long as the OP is willing to stay updated for the foreseeable future. LoL specific mods who can continue updating would be good here. A wiki kind of idea might be fine, but its damn hard work, and the last one i feel like didnt have enough traffic to warrant as much work as i was putting into it, tho i might be wrong. Basically as long as we figure something out for cleaning them up ill roll with it, kus its unacceptable for the time being.
|
Baa?21242 Posts
On July 13 2011 03:26 broz0rs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 16:18 IntoTheWow wrote:On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat. Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821 oh c'mon is this a classical music forum? I can understand thread derailment, but posts that brings shits and giggles for 2 seconds does not merit some type of warning.
Total aside, but classical music forums tend to have a very small active userbase and the threads tend to be filled with a lot of users who know each other jabbing at one another LOL xD
Bad example to use :D
|
On July 12 2011 16:18 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 15:45 locodoco wrote:On July 12 2011 13:44 Chrispy wrote:
1. Never give Locodoco moderator powers here. Ever. For the love of all that is holy, just don't do it!
2. Keep the General Discussion thread as that is the heart of our power.
That is all. ur the first on my to-ban list Not to pick on locodoco or Chrispy here, but I think these kind of off-topic jab/sdiscussions needs to go, at least from any thread but the "general / off-topic thread". It's really annoying when reading a champion thread (or basically in any thread searching for information) to have it invaded by off-topic chat between friends. You know each other on LoL, you have each other on your friend list. Poke yourselves there or in the off-topic chat. Here's a quick example I found: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242821
Actually I agree... we should stop banning people in general discussion for references everyone in liquidparty understands, but tighten things up in the rest of the forums. That seems to play to the structure we have right now a lot better than the current setup where GD is a little more loose than the rest of TL, but sometimes randomly not, and the rest of the forum is TL standard, but sometimes randomly things get a pass.
|
I want the GD thread to stay. Maybe just call it an Off-Topic LoL thread or something so that people can understand it's a bit more lax and not very focused. I like lurking and I like asking for advice there because I don't want to make new threads for my nooby advice. Plus sometimes I can get fun replies. A sub-forum for general discussion for tournaments, patches, and other stuff would be nice. As well as having a strategy sub-forum for champ threads and general strategy threads.
I don't care how champ threads are handled so long as I can still go to a thread to read about or theorycraft about a champ. Though it'd be nice if the OPs would be more organized. Is there a way to give some of the higher ELO people who know what they're doing some kind of moderation powers in just that sub-forum? It'd be nice to see well maintained OPs for the champ threads, if TL had something like that it'd probably be the place that I link my noob friends to for "how to play this champ" guides.
|
i think a "1.x.x Patch Discussion" thread for each new patch would be nice, since each patch affects a few champs and possibly a metagame. that might lower the number of posts in GD, but that could be seen as a good thing or bad thing, good because youll see more organized posting and bad because its less posts and discussion in GD.
and i would love a "CLG stream discussion" or "TSM stream discussion" threads too. i loved watching GSL and TSL and other tourneys while posting with other TLers and there are just so many funny or goofy moments not to share
and would it be possible to set a character requirement for champion guides? its easy to copy and paste a champs ability and say thats a guide, when so much more depth could be contributed
edit: additionally, i think threads should be started moderators or LoL moderators. an "LoL comic collection" would be p nice
|
Could we get a sub, sub forum? One that would be just champion threads.
I find many of the champion threads are quite old (and don't appear by default), so you have to extend the recent post date to 30(+) days, so mudding through all the threads ever made is difficult. Conversely, many of those threads are uselessly out of date, so I'm not sure if this is really an issue.
I do want to see champion threads become more restrictive. A lot of them are either troll builds, are out of date, or contain minimal amounts of information. Some basic things every champion thread should include are skill descriptions with the ranges and ratios of each.
|
On July 15 2011 08:16 Craton wrote:
Some basic things every champion thread should include are skill descriptions with the ranges and ratios of each.
why?
totally disagree. that's just filler shit. you can look that up on the lol wiki or the lol official website or just play the champion once. seeing "annie's Q has a range of XXX" isn't going to give you a feel for the champion.
IMO the champ guides should be written for people who have tried out the champ and want to get better at them or see a new perspective of them, not for people who want to try them out for the first time
|
|
|
all I know is I followed gtrsrs recommended build for vayne and 50% of the time people notice and call me names.
|
United States37500 Posts
On July 15 2011 12:30 Tadzio wrote:
all I know is I followed gtrsrs recommended build for vayne and 50% of the time people notice and call me names.
That's because E > W 
|
On July 15 2011 12:30 Tadzio wrote:
all I know is I followed gtrsrs recommended build for vayne and 50% of the time people notice and call me names.
those names are probably all things like "creative" "entrepreneur" and "savant" right?
|
On July 15 2011 12:30 Tadzio wrote:
all I know is I followed gtrsrs recommended build for vayne and 50% of the time people notice and call me names.
generally following gtr's builds are a good way to get people to make fun of you
Anyway I don't really think more moderation is necessary atm. Post quality is generally good, and I find myself coming here a lot to learn about champions. The ONE thing that needs to change is OP quality. Waaaaaay too often when a new champ comes out some asshole just takes it upon himself to make a thread, list their skills, make up an item build and then never touch the thing again.
If possible, threads such as these need to be deleted before they become *the* thread for that champ, or only certain people should be allowed to start (and maintain!) champ threads.
|
I think most champion builds are fine. but if you're not solid your build should be edited. gtrsrs, tbh is okay if you're destroying, but as soon as you stuggle at all, it's kinda sad. And I don't like hurting my team on purpose
|
well on vayne's release, that was 100% the best way to play her. i haven't played her much since her second round of nerfs, but i'll get back into her and re-edit that OP soon
|
Well, on the topic of champion threads, sometimes it's just difficult for the OP to keep it up to date.
For example I created the Kassadin thread (although originally someone else did, lol). At the time I was probably the best Kass player here, and one of the best around (huah, humility). Then I took a hiatus due to school + work overwhelming me. But even before I took a hiatus I was tiring of Kass due to matchups (primarily MF). By the time I came back new heroes like Jarv and the shifting metagame axed his viability by a huge chunk, so that I stopped playing him. Now people still play him, but they don't do what my guide does, and I don't really know how to play him anymore because I just don't play him, at all.
And in a situation like that, I can more-or-less apologize for not keeping up to date with the hero, but... at what point are you alleviated of responsibility regarding that hero, and at what point is it simply time to turn the page and say "this guy has changed/the play environment has changed so much that stuff is now obsolete, can we just make a new guide"?
|
I mean, I suppose in that case it could just be a case of lock the old thread, make a new thread, and link to the old thread in the new OP. I think if the new-thread-maker talks to a mod beforehand it'd all happen rather naturally.
|
On July 15 2011 15:37 Southlight wrote:
Well, on the topic of champion threads, sometimes it's just difficult for the OP to keep it up to date.
For example I created the Kassadin thread (although originally someone else did, lol). At the time I was probably the best Kass player here, and one of the best around (huah, humility). Then I took a hiatus due to school + work overwhelming me. But even before I took a hiatus I was tiring of Kass due to matchups (primarily MF). By the time I came back new heroes like Jarv and the shifting metagame axed his viability by a huge chunk, so that I stopped playing him. Now people still play him, but they don't do what my guide does, and I don't really know how to play him anymore because I just don't play him, at all.
And in a situation like that, I can more-or-less apologize for not keeping up to date with the hero, but... at what point are you alleviated of responsibility regarding that hero, and at what point is it simply time to turn the page and say "this guy has changed/the play environment has changed so much that stuff is now obsolete, can we just make a new guide"?
Just let high ELO people who are active on this forums edit the OPs. If there's a champion sub-forum made for all the champ threads it should be easy to divide the work load among a few of the people who are well known here for not being awful. I'm not trying to volunteer those people for this kind of thing, but I think something like that would be 10x better than it being the responsibility of whoever just happens to make the thread first.
Not to mention it'd be a lot better than having to have champ threads be locked and forgotten about when the OP gets tired of that champ or goes afk for a few months.
Just throwing that idea out there though. I'm not good at this game so I'm sure as hell not volunteering for that kind of job but maybe some of the higher ELO people who frequent this forum would be interested?
|
I think the LoL section needs it's own Wiki for us TL'ers. It would be a nice way to organize Champs, Runes, etc. but I guess people can just go to solomid for something like that. (I think they have a wiki?)
I like the GD how it is.
A sub forum for tournaments, and a sub-forum for champs would be great. (That could link to the wiki!)
|
We had this
http://liquidlol.wikispaces.com/
for a while.
And my point was that high ELO people don't necessarily stick to one champ, or even continue to remain familiar with a champ, and certainly aren't guaranteed to even stick with the game (life happens). A year later there's no guarantee Smash still mains Jarv, and who knows how obsolete that guide might end up being?
|
On July 15 2011 16:37 Southlight wrote:We had this http://liquidlol.wikispaces.com/for a while. And my point was that high ELO people don't necessarily stick to one champ, or even continue to remain familiar with a champ, and certainly aren't guaranteed to even stick with the game (life happens). A year later there's no guarantee Smash still mains Jarv, and who knows how obsolete that guide might end up being?
Yeah, I can get that. I just don't want there to be an endless cycle of closing threads as they become obsolete and making new ones. This games meta, and thus what champs are viable, changes pretty frequently.
|
Instead of creating massive amounts of guides you could try thinking what works instead of looking for whats the "right" way to do it.
I've not looked in a guide since i was lvl 18~ and I've been pretty succesfull in the ladder. Stop spending so much time theorycrafting and play instead (Which I know is hard because the servers are down so much, but still.)
Thats just my opinion though, I've always thought that gamesense was more important then knowing how much base damage orianna has, for cleaning up the forum I think that there should be links in 1 thread to propper guides that have been confirmed(?) by decent players from other sites. The thread already exists but it could be cleaned up quite a bit like this. The players that want to post guides could post them on another site and then reply in that thread and ask for people to look through it and review/grade it.
The OP will have to put some effort in though, but I'm quite sure there will be someone willing to do such a thing. This way obsolete guides can just be removed from the list and another person could write the guide to replace it.
As for the bit about bad advice, instead of seeing who wrote it, think about what he wrote for a second and judge for yourself if it sounds decent or just rediculous, the chances of getting multiple opinions in here are quite good so it shouldn't be to hard to make a choice.
If your wondering why I'm not playing but writing, I'm at work. (small joke because my post is so serious.)
Theres a first time for everything.
|
I read guides just to see what other people are thinking. Given that most people aren't aware of and/or don't state a lot of the assumptions that formed their opinions, it's a good exercise to try and understand why people make the choices they do. Most of the time the answer is "because they don't know any better", but I run into situations where there's something interest often enough for the effort to be worthwhile.
|
My quick thoughts since its been awhile since I poked my head in here,
1) I like the large GD thread and its banter. However, there are tons of great champion (item, warding, rune buying) posts (discussions/guides) in that thread that get buried pages back within hours. Its a shame because then they get lost in the banter and are never seen again. It would be great if many of these posts made it into their respective topic threads where they could be given more exposure.
2) I have cringed at the latest trend of posting champion guides before the champions are even released. While I realize TL will not have an "expert" for every champion, I think there needs to be bit of buffer time from when champions are released to when a thread can be created. The thread should contain more than wiki stats and spell descriptions (I can use wiki for that) and should discuss viable ways to build and play a champion. Obviously none of this can occur if you haven't even played the champion yet.
3) I would like to see moderation outside the GD thread and less inside of it. While it would be hard to moderate bad advice, highlighting quality/skilled posters like in the SC2 strat section could help filter the advice given.
|
Did Neo just get made a banling?
|
is awesome32274 Posts
|
So Sinbad (ie. Lulzahar) has a terrible OP that hasn't been updated because it still says a Meki Pendant opening by presumably a 1300 player and the latest, most concrete nugget of information is my 2-line build order back in May.
On May 11 2011 04:12 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 04:07 0123456789 wrote:
Since sinbad is free this week, how does every1 play him, or is the OP still gud 0/9/21 sapph 2 pots, skillbuild same (i do q e e w e r) cata -> deathcap -> MOAR AP MOAR
I'd like to give lulzahar some lovin' esp with the first two replies calling him the worst AP hero in the game. How're we dealing with this sort of situ?
Edit:
Oh I guess Smash had this nugget too
On May 11 2011 04:12 Mogwai wrote:
sapphire -> cata -> boots -> revolver -> generic caster shit. Base damages are crazy so you can forego AP for early banshee's if you like or you can use your good scaling and just rush deathcap or w/e.
ps. I don't even use that skillbuild anymore.
pss. plz give taric new skin <-- someone kill turkey for me.
|
Ya there's also a pretty /bad/ (It's well written and all but it has a lot of flaws) Lee Sin guide. I want to write out a LS guide but most people will just go to the front page of the OP instead of checking each page for a guide that actually makes sense.
|
I agree that the champion guides might need some ratification, and I can see why people probably wont read the whole thread to find the good guide which makes me kinda sad tbh. If I have been looking for guides earlier (which has been once or twice Ill admit that) I have not come to TL I have gone solomid or even leagucraft pre solomids extensive guide section. most of the time how ever I have been more interested in understanding the way the champions works and how to use them properly in different situations. and then I have come to TL and most of the time I end up reading the entire thread on the champion and the whole discussion around them that is why I personally would prefer the current champ discussions over a real champion guide
|
Why not have each champion post be a collection of guides rather than just one and then having to browse through the thread pages to find the actually good guide.
|
can i make a suggestion:
copy the General Discussion thread to the Sports and Games section. make it show as League of Legends over there. update OP with a bunch of useful links, and most importantly include a link and a disclaimer stating that there is a LoL subforum. its kinda hidden/obscure right now imoimoimo
|
As someone who doesn't read the LoL forum regularly I have to say that the big threads like the General Discussion thread are not optimal because as an "outsider" you never know what the people talked about in the last 20 pages and what they are referring to. It would help a lot to create some subforums, like "Champions" where the Champions and their build can be discussed. "Strategy" where things like picks/bans, jungling routes, controlling the map, and so on can be discussed. And then one section "General" where live report threads, QQ threads and the like can be posted.
This would help make the LoL forums more organized and make it easier for people who aren't reading the forum frequently to participate in the discussions. I also think it would attract more attention this way because if people visit the LoL forum at the moment they see ~4-8 active threads the most active of them being the General Discussions thread where you never really know what everyone is talking about and some champion threads.
Another point about the champion threads. It's just an idea and I don't know if it's possible to implement something like that but I would prefer these threads to be kind of a brainstorming about champions, where good players discuss how they would play the champion currently, how they would Lane vs. X and so on. The problem is this should all be in one post or in consecutive posts and it should be clear how old the posts are. Maybe this could be done externally and then be linked to this forum so that the other (not so good) players could comment in the forums expressing their opinion. But as I said this is only a mere suggestion and I know something like that would be very hard to implement.
|
Something I just realized, should we make it a general rule that people who show up with like 50 posts and just appeared for the first time in this area have to post the elo range & server they're talking about?
Like, for most regulars here you get a feel for the quality of their posts and simply have some respect for them over time, however if someone new shows up and brings up something I don't agree with I'm never sure if he's some 1200 scrub that makes no sense or some sekrit 2k elo who has actual strong points in his thoughtprocess that I fail to recognize.
Any idea how we could implement something like that?
|
United States37500 Posts
On July 20 2011 21:20 r.Evo wrote:
Something I just realized, should we make it a general rule that people who show up with like 50 posts and just appeared for the first time in this area have to post the elo range & server they're talking about?
Like, for most regulars here you get a feel for the quality of their posts and simply have some respect for them over time, however if someone new shows up and brings up something I don't agree with I'm never sure if he's some 1200 scrub that makes no sense or some sekrit 2k elo who has actual strong points in his thoughtprocess that I fail to recognize.
Any idea how we could implement something like that?
Sounds very useful but it would probably be rather difficult to implement directly into the forum. Only reliable way really is to take everything said on this forum with a pinch of salt unless it's from a verifiable source.
Can't tell if serious...
then find out who that person is in game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
