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On March 28 2016 03:31 Valiver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2016 03:19 Slydie wrote:
Should I get Lunara, Greymane or Diablo next? Each of those are pretty strong right now and aren't getting nerfed, so it really depends on your play style and what roles you lack if any. Lunara is great at being a pest and doing tons of backloaded, underestimated damage safely (doesn't have to fight to do damage at long range), Greymane chunks people hard and is good for erasing squishies (but commits to fights most of the time), and Diablo is a good CC gankbot frontliner. Unless you just don't have a tank or ranged character or a bruiser, you can't pick a wrong one with those choices.
I think I'd put Diablo a tier below the other because of the fact that he cannot combo off the charge anymore (thanks Obama!)
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On March 28 2016 07:29 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2016 03:31 Valiver wrote:On March 28 2016 03:19 Slydie wrote:
Should I get Lunara, Greymane or Diablo next? Each of those are pretty strong right now and aren't getting nerfed, so it really depends on your play style and what roles you lack if any. Lunara is great at being a pest and doing tons of backloaded, underestimated damage safely (doesn't have to fight to do damage at long range), Greymane chunks people hard and is good for erasing squishies (but commits to fights most of the time), and Diablo is a good CC gankbot frontliner. Unless you just don't have a tank or ranged character or a bruiser, you can't pick a wrong one with those choices. I think I'd put Diablo a tier below the other because of the fact that he cannot combo off the charge anymore (thanks Obama!)
I agree in general, but he's also cheaper than 10k which the other 2 are.
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I still don't see a world where Artanis isn't just the poor man's Sonya right now, my other thought is that these changes need to come with a bigger re-work. They seem objectively better than what is on 4 and 7 now. That would also give Artanis, intermittently though, the earliest form of relentless in the game right?
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On March 29 2016 01:42 ThomasjServo wrote:
I still don't see a world where Artanis isn't just the poor man's Sonya right now, my other thought is that these changes need to come with a bigger re-work. They seem objectively better than what is on 4 and 7 now. That would also give Artanis, intermittently though, the earliest form of relentless in the game right?
Tychus gains it at level 7 next Patch, and Sonya has one on 10. I think it'd be fine. Could be reworded to *for 4s after proccing* or whatever 
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On March 29 2016 01:42 ThomasjServo wrote:
I still don't see a world where Artanis isn't just the poor man's Sonya right now, my other thought is that these changes need to come with a bigger re-work. They seem objectively better than what is on 4 and 7 now. That would also give Artanis, intermittently though, the earliest form of relentless in the game right?
At level 10 Artanis gets an insane ultimate. Sonya gets the rest of her damage.
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I honestly think Blizzard is trying to shift Artanis from 'bruiser' to the premiere tank in sustained fights.
He can reset his shields for a very long time, making him able to stay in the frontline longer than most tanks, once he gets 2 proccs off. He can use his E as one of the best defensive peel abilities in the game, and his R gives an extreme advantage to and against sustain damage comps.
Essentially there is only one tank currently with a high amount of health and self-heal, which is Muradin. But he has to weave out of the fight to allows his trait to refuel him, whilst Artanis can keep whacking.
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On March 29 2016 02:08 SC2Toastie wrote:
I honestly think Blizzard is trying to shift Artanis from 'bruiser' to the premiere tank in sustained fights.
He can reset his shields for a very long time, making him able to stay in the frontline longer than most tanks, once he gets 2 proccs off. He can use his E as one of the best defensive peel abilities in the game, and his R gives an extreme advantage to and against sustain damage comps.
Essentially there is only one tank currently with a high amount of health and self-heal, which is Muradin. But he has to weave out of the fight to allows his trait to refuel him, whilst Artanis can keep whacking.
I dunno, feels to me and looks this way with Dehaka that blizzard is leaning away from full tanks. The last tank that is a popular/viable solo tank in the west was Johanna wasn't it?
I dunno, its a hard thing to talk about though because you get into those semantics of tank/offtank like I love Chen, and KR will play with a solo chen or tyrael but you would never see that just about any other server.
On March 29 2016 02:04 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 01:42 ThomasjServo wrote:
I still don't see a world where Artanis isn't just the poor man's Sonya right now, my other thought is that these changes need to come with a bigger re-work. They seem objectively better than what is on 4 and 7 now. That would also give Artanis, intermittently though, the earliest form of relentless in the game right? At level 10 Artanis gets an insane ultimate. Sonya gets the rest of her damage.
Hahaha, can't argue that, WotB is one of the most underwhelming ults in terms of how it looks in game in the whole game imo.
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The two things I don't really get with Artanis, but that could just be me:
1. How is he supposed to stick to a target before Zealot Charge? The prism is nice but it swaps, so Artanis still has to walk over to the target. More of a team/gank setup ability than a gap closer.
2. His damage isn't that high. All his damage comes from Twin Blades and the triple blade talent adds a second to the cooldown. So even if he manages to properly stick to a target, his damage isn't that scary or bursty. He also has no way other than Zealot Charge to chase after a hero that used their escape ability.
I like the idea of Artanis where you have a dive-hard hero that survives by whacking his enemies but I still struggle to see how it is supposed to work. One stun and he's dead. One blind and he's dead. Anything that slows him or speeds up his target and he can't stick to the target unless he has Zealot Charge. He seems so super easy to counter and his damage isn't that spectacular. Is Purifier Beam (or Suppression Pulse if you're up against Illidan) really that good?
Also, out of all the recently added heroes over the past months, Artanis is the only one I have never seen in a serious pro game yet. At all. This includes games played on the most recent patch.
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I've seen Artanis once verse a comp that included Lunara, Greymane OR Kharazim and Falstad IIRC. He lost.
Blizzard hasn't really released a lot of warriors capable of solo tanking in a long while, that's true. Both Leo and JoJo can do it. However, what warriors have been released since then? Cho(Gall), who is in a class of his own, and Rexxar, who probably was never supposed to solo tank in the first place. Last there is Artanis, who was shoved in somewhat of a lategame bruiser role, but competed with Sonya who is more effective before lv 16.
Dehaka is next in line, and people think he can do it solo with proper support.
I think Artanis is ment to be able to solo tank, but only in certain situations. He's strong against auto attackers, he'll be able to specc into damage (TS/ZC) or shields. He needs help with engaging, which is where his team comes in. Heroes like Lunara or Jaina can provide slows, for example.
Artanis appears to be in an awkward spot where Blizzard wants him played differently than the players do. A couple of small changes can put him in a perfect spot, that's for sure.
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But shouldn't a solo tank be the one to engage and initiate? Isn't that the job of the tank?
At best he can swap someone making them somewhat vulnerable (the range isn't that long) and likely putting Artanis in the middle of the enemy team. He feels much squishier since everything about him surviving revolves around his shield.
If you stun Johanna or Muradin, their tankiness isn't really affected unless they are completely bursted down during the stun.
Artanis stunned will have a much harder team getting his shield off enough for him to survive.
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Yep, he has issues forcing the engage. However, teammates can potentially do that. He will not be as flexible as Mura/JoJo, but he should have his place with proper support. Bruisers like Thrall, or assassins like Valla and Jaina can slow, allowing the team to get in the fight. His E is better saved for defensive peels, IMO.
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Care sharing the result and impact of Artanis in a spoiler  ?
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MVP_BLack vs TNL Game 1 Spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +MVP_Black won, its hard to say they won because of Artanis, or just because they are so good they could win with anything. The broadcast is in Korean and didn't show stats often so it's hard to get a statistical performance guide. But regardless it is a Pro game with Artanis and a tourney finals game at that with lots of money at stake, so not complete troll pick. He was also regularly hatted by Abathur. MVP_Black is just a beast of a team and will be clear favorites to win Spring World's this weekend. Teams were: TNL - Li-Ming
- Reghar
- Sonya
- Leoric
- Falstad
MVP - Greymane
- Uther
- Abathur
- Thrall
- Artanis
Map was Battlefield of Eternity and Sign's build was - Amateur Opponent (presumably for DPSing immortal)
- Chronosurge
- Follow Through
- Purifier Beam
- Graviton Vortex
- Zealot Charge
- Game ended before 20
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On March 29 2016 03:40 karazax wrote:MVP_BLack vs TNL Game 1 Spoiler: + Show Spoiler +MVP_Black won, its hard to say they won because of Artanis, or just because they are so good they could win with anything. The broadcast is in Korean and didn't show stats often so it's hard to get a statistical performance guide. But regardless it is a Pro game with Artanis and a tourney finals game at that with lots of money at stake, so not complete troll pick. MVP_Black is just a beast of a team and will be clear favorites to win Spring World's this weekend.
Thanks
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On March 29 2016 02:43 SC2Toastie wrote:
Artanis appears to be in an awkward spot where Blizzard wants him played differently than the players do. A couple of small changes can put him in a perfect spot, that's for sure.
I am not sure that bliz changing him so he matches player's expectations is necessarily a good thing. I've been thinking a lot lately about how my expectations for roles is being challenged again and again by new bliz releases, and overall I think that more role diversity is a good thing. If two heroes fit the same exact sub-role too closely, balance ends up being a major problem--- and if they are balanced, the difference between them might be a bit too nuanced.
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On March 29 2016 03:40 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 03:40 karazax wrote:MVP_BLack vs TNL Game 1 Spoiler: + Show Spoiler +MVP_Black won, its hard to say they won because of Artanis, or just because they are so good they could win with anything. The broadcast is in Korean and didn't show stats often so it's hard to get a statistical performance guide. But regardless it is a Pro game with Artanis and a tourney finals game at that with lots of money at stake, so not complete troll pick. He was also regularly hatted by Abathur. MVP_Black is just a beast of a team and will be clear favorites to win Spring World's this weekend. Teams were: TNL - Li-Ming
- Reghar
- Sonya
- Leoric
- Falstad
MVP - Greymane
- Uther
- Abathur
- Thrall
- Artanis
Map was Battlefield of Eternity and Sign's build was - Amateur Opponent (presumably for DPSing immortal)
- Chronosurge
- Follow Through
- Purifier Beam
- Graviton Vortex
- Zealot Charge
- Game ended before 20
Thanks
No problem, I added few more details to the spoiler including Sign's build, the map they played and the heroes for both teams.
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On March 29 2016 03:55 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2016 03:40 SC2Toastie wrote:On March 29 2016 03:40 karazax wrote:MVP_BLack vs TNL Game 1 Spoiler: + Show Spoiler +MVP_Black won, its hard to say they won because of Artanis, or just because they are so good they could win with anything. The broadcast is in Korean and didn't show stats often so it's hard to get a statistical performance guide. But regardless it is a Pro game with Artanis and a tourney finals game at that with lots of money at stake, so not complete troll pick. He was also regularly hatted by Abathur. MVP_Black is just a beast of a team and will be clear favorites to win Spring World's this weekend. Teams were: TNL - Li-Ming
- Reghar
- Sonya
- Leoric
- Falstad
MVP - Greymane
- Uther
- Abathur
- Thrall
- Artanis
Map was Battlefield of Eternity and Sign's build was - Amateur Opponent (presumably for DPSing immortal)
- Chronosurge
- Follow Through
- Purifier Beam
- Graviton Vortex
- Zealot Charge
- Game ended before 20
Thanks No problem, I added few more details to the spoiler including Sign's build, the map they played and the heroes for both teams.
+ Show Spoiler +Black definitely won because they are Black, they actually struggled a ton in early game
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In hotslogs, why do Cho and Gall have a different number of games played?
I just don't see how that can be. It's odd that they also have different winrates.
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EPT
