On May 23 2009 21:11 Mah Buckit! wrote: If I was fighting against US army and knew stuff like that being done to my comrads, I would shoot americans like dogs :/ Except I do kinda like dogs...
yeah, but you forget that your supposed "comrads" prefer beheadings
edit:
This guy willingly got waterboarded for 20+ minutes. Also has some nice interviews.
On May 23 2009 21:11 Mah Buckit! wrote: If I was fighting against US army and knew stuff like that being done to my comrads, I would shoot americans like dogs :/ Except I do kinda like dogs...
Yes, you know since 2001 it's only been used on 3, yes 3 people.
I highly doubt we are incurring the Nazi v Soviet hatred of no POW. That truly was a kill or be killed scenario with no other options.
Imagine how the Americans feel when Al'Qaeda uses beheadings instead of this.
On May 23 2009 10:24 HeadBangaa wrote: It's a damn good thing nobody offered me $1000 per second to be waterboarded. I would certainly die.
Hey is anybody else surprised neither of these guys could last longer than 3 seconds? I mean, even if their air supply were completely eliminated, I don't understand how they only lasted that long.
It does make me want to try. I promise to record and post it if I do, but only if you bastards promise to rate it 5/5. =D
With adequate proof that it is you, I will literally pay you $100 for every second above 5 seconds you are waterboarded
I'll do it.
Its about a state of mind more than anything else. The intention when you are waterboarded is not to kill you. It is to extract information. Once you know this you can last as long as your will is there. Most of us in the military have epicly fucking huge wills.
How much is in your bank account?
Most people in the military also lack any degree beyond a high school diploma. You may be an exception. I dont know, but I highly doubt your state of mind can immediately overpower years of evolutionary adaptation aimed at avoiding drowning. With your hands and feet and body bound, do you really believe you'll remain calm. With practice who knows what anyone can accomplish. Surely your self assured faith in your "epically fucking huge will" can help you here.
oh now dont bother trying to convince Aegraen through referring to evolution
I think what he meant to say was 'fight or flight response'...no no...'instincts'...possibly...oh rubbish, everyone knows the things people will do for money.
I'm a pretty calm demeanored guy, so yeah there would be no reason for my heart rate to increase. It takes quite a bit to get me anxious, nervous, scared, etc.
I'm also acutely aware of the 'fear of drowning' since you know, I am part of a Sea going service.
So Aegraen, when did you graduate highschool and what religion were you brainwashed with?
On May 23 2009 10:24 HeadBangaa wrote: It's a damn good thing nobody offered me $1000 per second to be waterboarded. I would certainly die.
Hey is anybody else surprised neither of these guys could last longer than 3 seconds? I mean, even if their air supply were completely eliminated, I don't understand how they only lasted that long.
It does make me want to try. I promise to record and post it if I do, but only if you bastards promise to rate it 5/5. =D
With adequate proof that it is you, I will literally pay you $100 for every second above 5 seconds you are waterboarded
I'll do it.
Its about a state of mind more than anything else. The intention when you are waterboarded is not to kill you. It is to extract information. Once you know this you can last as long as your will is there. Most of us in the military have epicly fucking huge wills.
How much is in your bank account?
Most people in the military also lack any degree beyond a high school diploma. You may be an exception. I dont know, but I highly doubt your state of mind can immediately overpower years of evolutionary adaptation aimed at avoiding drowning. With your hands and feet and body bound, do you really believe you'll remain calm. With practice who knows what anyone can accomplish. Surely your self assured faith in your "epically fucking huge will" can help you here.
oh now dont bother trying to convince Aegraen through referring to evolution
I think what he meant to say was 'fight or flight response'...no no...'instincts'...possibly...oh rubbish, everyone knows the things people will do for money.
I'm a pretty calm demeanored guy, so yeah there would be no reason for my heart rate to increase. It takes quite a bit to get me anxious, nervous, scared, etc.
I'm also acutely aware of the 'fear of drowning' since you know, I am part of a Sea going service.
So Aegraen, when did you graduate highschool and what religion were you brainwashed with?
You might want to elaborate on your thoughts here. What were you brainwashed with?
You guys are all obviously neo-liberals. This technique has saved hundreds of America lives and none of you seem to care about that? Why do you guys care what's being done to terrorists leaders in Guantanamo Bay? This technique is not used on all prisoners.
Terrorist being waterboarded is a lot better than a skyscraper falling down because some liberals couldn't see a TERRORISTS being waterboarded.
On May 23 2009 21:11 Mah Buckit! wrote: If I was fighting against US army and knew stuff like that being done to my comrads, I would shoot americans like dogs :/ Except I do kinda like dogs...
Yes, you know since 2001 it's only been used on 3, yes 3 people.
I highly doubt we are incurring the Nazi v Soviet hatred of no POW. That truly was a kill or be killed scenario with no other options.
Imagine how the Americans feel when Al'Qaeda uses beheadings instead of this.
I don't understand. Is the argument because it's been used only 3 times, it's not so bad?
Only 2 americans were beheaded in iraq, 6 foreigners total, yet I think that's pretty bad.
Legal and moral justification isn't based on numbers. There's an excess of obfuscation of two simple questions: 1) is waterboarding torture 2) is torture legally justifiable
The volunteers in the demonstrations I've seen so far are of the opinion it is torture. (And I am curious what would happen if a rogue police officer tried it on a domestic suspect. Technically shouldn't that be legal?)
Whether torture is justifiable is a separate issue
On May 23 2009 21:11 Mah Buckit! wrote: If I was fighting against US army and knew stuff like that being done to my comrads, I would shoot americans like dogs :/ Except I do kinda like dogs...
Yes, you know since 2001 it's only been used on 3, yes 3 people.
I highly doubt we are incurring the Nazi v Soviet hatred of no POW. That truly was a kill or be killed scenario with no other options.
Imagine how the Americans feel when Al'Qaeda uses beheadings instead of this.
3 people, hundreds of times.
i am an american, i don't need to imagine how i feel or how everyone i knows feel. i am a new yorker, i saw the world trade centers on fire.
On May 23 2009 22:14 ingvarb1 wrote: You guys are all obviously neo-liberals. This technique has saved hundreds of America lives and none of you seem to care about that? Why do you guys care what's being done to terrorists leaders in Guantanamo Bay? This technique is not used on all prisoners.
Terrorist being waterboarded is a lot better than a skyscraper falling down because some liberals couldn't see a TERRORISTS being waterboarded.
you have no idea what neo-liberal means and it is painfully apparent in several ways.
On May 23 2009 21:11 Mah Buckit! wrote: If I was fighting against US army and knew stuff like that being done to my comrads, I would shoot americans like dogs :/ Except I do kinda like dogs...
Yes, you know since 2001 it's only been used on 3, yes 3 people.
I highly doubt we are incurring the Nazi v Soviet hatred of no POW. That truly was a kill or be killed scenario with no other options.
Imagine how the Americans feel when Al'Qaeda uses beheadings instead of this.
I don't understand. Is the argument because it's been used only 3 times, it's not so bad?
Only 2 americans were beheaded in iraq, 6 foreigners total, yet I think that's pretty bad.
Legal and moral justification isn't based on numbers. There's an excess of obfuscation of two simple questions: 1) is waterboarding torture 2) is torture legally justifiable
The volunteers in the demonstrations I've seen so far are of the opinion it is torture. (And I am curious what would happen if a rogue police officer tried it on a domestic suspect. Technically shouldn't that be legal?)
Whether torture is justifiable is a separate issue
The military is not law enforcement. Comparing the two is futile. As libs do, as libs do, they always make every 'war' into some lawyer-esque 'law enforcement confrontation' non-sense.
Islamo-fascism is alive and deadly. Techniques that aren't horrendously abhorrable should be used to extract information that could possibly save many lives, at the very least if not civilian militarily.
Should we prosecute the soldiers on the beaches of Normandy who 'executed' german soldiers who were surrendering?
how can you justify current behaviour with what happened during world war 2? seriously? seeing as you seemingly have no moral objections to torture, and that you think any legal objections are irrelevant, how about this
torture has been proven to be a horrible and absolutely unreliable way of extracting information because people in fact tend to say whatever the torturer wants to hear rather than what actually is the truth.
On May 23 2009 22:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: how can you justify current behaviour with what happened during world war 2? seriously? seeing as you seemingly have no moral objections to torture, and that you think any legal objections are irrelevant, how about this
torture has been proven to be a horrible and absolutely unreliable way of extracting information because people in fact tend to say whatever the torturer wants to hear rather than what actually is the truth.
Who said anything about 'justifying' etc. I want to see if he'll stay consistent.
Waterboarding works. You honestly believe that the CIA just goes around and waterboards anyone, not knowing if they even have any actionable intelligence they can gleam. Naivate. Everyone who is waterboarded is verified beforehand that they do know information that is actionable.
I'll say this again. Waterboarding isn't torture. Yeah, yeah semantics, right? Well I certainly do not place waterboarding in the same definition as for example, what happened to John McCain in captivity. Do you?
On May 23 2009 22:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: torture has been proven to be a horrible and absolutely unreliable way of extracting information because people in fact tend to say whatever the torturer wants to hear rather than what actually is the truth.
He already said earlier that since the awesome infallible american intelligence can check false claims in no time. He thinks the it's more than worth the risk, the rights of some random innocent guy aren't worth as close as much as the huge threat that nonexistent weapons of mass destruction might pose to himself.
Basically you're saying that torture is (or should be) legally justifiable in a wartime setting. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion.
Of course the legally part is important, because we have a civilian government, and the military has to follow whatever restrictions the law sets for it.
I'm curious why you found it necessary to use the horrendously abhorrable classification. People like you usually don't care, since they value security far greater than individual rights.
On May 23 2009 22:45 Liquid`Drone wrote: how can you justify current behaviour with what happened during world war 2? seriously? seeing as you seemingly have no moral objections to torture, and that you think any legal objections are irrelevant, how about this
torture has been proven to be a horrible and absolutely unreliable way of extracting information because people in fact tend to say whatever the torturer wants to hear rather than what actually is the truth.
Who said anything about 'justifying' etc. I want to see if he'll stay consistent.
Waterboarding works. You honestly believe that the CIA just goes around and waterboards anyone, not knowing if they even have any actionable intelligence they can gleam. Naivate. Everyone who is waterboarded is verified beforehand that they do know information that is actionable.
I'll say this again. Waterboarding isn't torture. Yeah, yeah semantics, right? Well I certainly do not place waterboarding in the same definition as for example, what happened to John McCain in captivity. Do you?
The John McCain scale of torture: If you weren't tortured as much as this one dude 40 years ago it does not count as torture.
I wonder if William Wallace would call what happened to John McCain torture. Hell why not go back to throwing spears and skinning eachother alive, since relativation is a valid tool for justifying horrible acts, fuck human progress.
The drowning paradox. Holding your head in a bucket til the point of drowning then bringing you back up, giving you one breath then back under = torture. Doing it without the bucket = not torture.
EPT
