EPTHuh Oh news flash =[
Adderall - Miracle Drug? - Page 8
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
Huh Oh news flash =[ | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On November 12 2008 06:02 HeadBangaa wrote: I think people can question whether ADD/ADHD are legit. They simply describe an amalgamation of "symptoms" and the medication does not "fix" anything. These symptoms are considered problematic because of the expectations imposed upon children. It could be rationally argued that the standards we hold children to, what we make them do, expecting them to sit still and focusing and being quiet, are abnormal. I've heard psychologists say that the public education system is designed to favor you girls over boys, who are naturally rambunctious and adventurous. This leaves male children prone to marginalization and medicalized as having a problem when compared to a skewed institutional norm. Imagine if we lived in a warrior society, and all the naturally-passive people received diagnoses of ADD: Aggression Deficit Disorder, to explain why they are pussed out and limp-wristed. The treatment of course being a steroidal regimen. This sounds about as reasonable as giving mind-wandering kids amphetamines to help them focus. Tell me if I'm missing something. It spikes your mental ability for a period of time, call that what you want. You're mincing my words. This is not a mystery, it's basically meth. Meth heads are pretty sharp, you ever played scrabble at 5:30am?? I agree with you in general... A big problem with diagnosing ADD and several other mental "disorders" is that the drugs don't really fix the problems... they just cover them up... Psychologists don't know whether the environment is causing the brain to build these chemicals, or if the brain is producing the chemicals which in turn causes the person to perceive the environment as such is described by said disorder. The old Catch-22 bullshit.... We don't know what comes first the chemical imbalance or the reality of the disorder... if that makes sense? I'm sure i could word it better... But then, What is the solid scientific argument for the everyone not being pumped full of drugs? A massive colony of sheep-ants might be beneficial to our society if we could just pump every full of prozac and adderall everyday... What is a slightly shorter lifespan in the eyes of increased cooperation and productivity among all people in said society? As for the school systems... The list of problems is so large that it even carries over into our culture(s).... As a left handed child, do you think I was provided left handed siccors? What about a computer with the mouse on the left? pfft, whatever, you can't please everyone. The best you can do is make the most generalized system you can that applies to as many as possible... and then you try to tackle problems for special situations as they arise... While there is a strong argument that the problem with children needing ADD medication just need more discipline and perhaps a better system which caters to their needs and there is no disorder.... We can't change the fact that for those children, the system does not work for them. We can change the system, or cover it up... As for ADD making you smarter, this depends on your definition of intelligence... If your definition is the speed at which you adapt to your surroundings... well then we should just call ADD kids stupid because their surroundings are a system that don't work for them... Adderall FTW... I do think ADD is a real disorder however and should be addressed, but is certainly over diagnosed, and this is all just bullshit. lmao. EDIT + Show Spoiler + On November 12 2008 08:01 Boonbag wrote: DRUgz r bad to teh brainz Huh Oh news flash =[ Thank you for your contribution to the thread, but..... Which drugs? Ibuprofen? Acetometaphin? Alprozolam? THC? WTF Are you talking about? Educate yourself and provide evidence, or troll less please? edit2: if you're trying to state that smoking meth is bad... well a car is bad for the atmosphere, and a chainsaw is bad for your arm. | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:19 aRod wrote: It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society. /agreed.... But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol... | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:24 Motiva wrote: /agreed.... But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol... This is a good question, I would need to see studies (which don't exist yet) on the long term impact of the regular use of amphetamines as ADHD meds. But if it helps these kids do well in school and become functional adults I would say yes. | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:28 aRod wrote: This is a good question, I would need to see studies (which don't exist yet) on the long term impact of the regular use of amphetamines as ADHD meds. But if it helps these kids do well in school and become functional adults I would say yes. I am inclined to agree, however the only real issue I have is the lack of education (on the drug and ect) and choice on the child's part. What if the child doesn't want to become a linear thinking focused student, but instead an abstract artist with whom opium would be a better creative outlet? (obviously the opium is a joke, but it's also used to illustrate a point) | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On November 12 2008 03:23 Hawk wrote: please explain how it's 'false' On November 12 2008 05:22 Frits wrote: If you think other aspects of it are false as well please enlighten me. The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this. There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect. Neuropsychology is starting to change that but that's only because of the "neuro" part, not the "psychology". I am not saying there is nothing to gain from psychology, that one can't further their understanding of others by taking a psych course. What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:24 Motiva wrote: /agreed.... But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol... I don't take adderall for society, I take it for me. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
On November 12 2008 05:38 MyLostTemple wrote: i'm a bit shocked there are people here who don't think adhd isn't real. having adhd isn't as black and white as having a working leg or a broken one but it should be pretty obvious that there are people with serious focus problems. this goes on the same level as saying people shouldn't take anti-depressants because everyone should just learn to be happy without a pill. people have massively different brains that function on different levels with unique strengths and weaknesses. it's obvious some people have problems focusing just like some people have problems with anxiety and some people get overly depressed for no apparent reason. it's just unrealistic to expect other people to deal with shit like that when a solution that can help their entire lives out is just one prescription away. addreall will definitely help you focus but it has it's bad sides. the comedown can be terrible and it's often very difficult to eat while you're on it, hence lots of people losing weight when on a prescription. i do think it's a great drug that can help a lot of people out as long as it's taken in moderation. Thats why you take at the same time you smoke weed. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
and I have smoked weed too much while on adderall, lol | ||
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KaasZerg
Netherlands927 Posts
I thought ADD is not ADHD. ADD is without the hyperactivity. AM I Rite? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Otherwise no new species would ever do anything new. | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:51 travis wrote: I don't take adderall for society, I take it for me. Yea, I don't have any problems with taking adderall, I think it's a fine drug. I'm talking about giving it to kids who don't know what they are doing, and only so they'll function properly according to the norms of our society (school standards ect.) On November 12 2008 08:59 travis wrote: The human species evolved to do whatever the human species does. Otherwise no new species would ever do anything new. Evolution takes like 20 generations for the most subtle changes? Not sure on that, correct me if I'm wrong... Luckily evolution will be mechanized right? It will be interesting to see the result our current and future standards of living will have in like 30 generations regardless... | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:57 KaasZerg wrote: The human species has not evolved to sit stil 8 hours a day 5 days a week. A large group can't keep up 10 years of their lives cramming useless trivia into their memmory. Language, math and a few other subjects excluded it comes down more to repitition and cramming. I am not suprised there are so many learning disorders according to our schooling systems. I thought ADD is not ADHD. ADD is without the hyperactivity. AM I Rite? Yeah, both terms are still used, but apparently ADD is no longer a diagnosis. I just found this out today as it conflicts with my previous post. ADHD now has two types, one with hyperactivity and one without hyperactivity. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:55 travis wrote: smoking weed too much while on adderall is terrible for your heart and I have smoked weed too much while on adderall, lol so is drinking soda | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On November 12 2008 08:47 travis wrote: The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this. There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect. Neuropsychology is starting to change that but that's only because of the "neuro" part, not the "psychology". I am not saying there is nothing to gain from psychology, that one can't further their understanding of others by taking a psych course. What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be. erm that's just not true One of the most important principles psychologists have is based on the fact that as a psychologist you have to conduct research that serves purpose and has value to mankind. (ie: applicable knowledge) This is on the list of ethics all psychologists have to work by. What you're talking about is structuralism, founded by Titchener before behaviorism was popularized and basically killed off structuralism in the US because it had no aim for practical knowledge. This happened at least 50 years ago. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On November 12 2008 09:16 Frits wrote: erm that's just not true One of the most important principles psychologists have is based on the fact that as a psychologist you have to conduct research that serves purpose and has value to mankind. (ie: applicable knowledge) This is on the list of ethics all psychologists have to work by. What you're talking about is structuralism, founded by Titchener before behaviorism was popularized and basically killed off structuralism in the US because it had no aim for practical knowledge. This happened at least 50 years ago. you're not addressing any of my points that you quoted. 1.) The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this. 2.) There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect. 3.) What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be. if you're gonna quote my post, address the points in the post | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
You can talk about behavioral psychology which is extremely analytical and extremely specific or you can start talking about someone having a Freudian anal retentive personality which frankly has no scientific value. But in reality fields like cognitive psychology, clinical psychology, and neuropsychology are based on scientific study, numbers/statistics, and observation. The suggestion that there are no laws or direct cause and effect in psychology is rediculous. With neuropsychology, they do deep brain stimulation to determine what brain areas are involved with what. Did you know that if they stimulate an area in your brain called the septum that you will innevitably burst out obsenities. A neuropsychologist would say people with hyperactive septums or septal abnormalities are prone to curse. Classical conditioning is another example of a law that is applicable to all animals of a certain species with certain cognitive abilities. Overall though, your right, psychology largely works in "tendencies," but psychologist gather data to support these tendencies. For instance a clinical psychologist might site a study that say, "individuals abused as children are 10 times more likely to sexually abuse their own children." | ||
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NastyMarine
United States1252 Posts
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