Yes, Yes.. there have been few threads on Adderall (through the search function). There are also the infamous threads such as the "Drunk Thread" and "High Thread" SOO.. besides the information of Adderall & it's side effects, I want to hear opinions and personal experiences (of people using it without being diagnosed with ADD unless they faked it) because if it's a drug that makes people more productive, and that tobacco is potentially as addictive.. why not? It makes you feel great also, with hours of optimism and potential in the next couple hours :D
People can post vidoes such as this to make the thread look stupid
because adderall IS a mixture of amphetamine salts
but lets hear how it changes YOUR views on everything and what you actually get done, etc. because I'm pretty sure it allowed me to study 5+ hours before my exam and I'm pretty sure, once again, that I did well gogogo discuss!
I take adderall every morning for concentration and memory issues. I don't know if it's cumulative or not, but I definatly have felt a big improvement since I started taking it regularly and not missing days. My short term memory has improved and I feel myself drifting off less and less.
The unfortunate part is that adderall is abused to no end. It CAN get very addictive and people will beg you to buy or have some.
The positive things I've experienced with adderall:
-Improved concentration -Improved moods at different times in the day -Better memory habits (writing things down or backtracking thoughts) -Increased alertness and energy -Good motivator for waking up
Negatives:
-Extremely addictive (don't mess with someone if they missed their dose) -Causes crashing periods throughout the day (for me, around 11:30am, 3pm, and 9pm.) -When moving up on dosage, can cause shaking or jitteryness (i had bad hand tremors when i went from 20-40) -People will want your adderall (moral issue really, whether or not you want to sell. If you are underage I highly advise against it, A. you can get in serious trouble and you will have difficulty getting medicines in the future if this happens and B. your parents are probably paying for the drugs, or at least some if you have insurance) -Taking more than your recommended dosage can really fuck up your day.
That's all really, if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me. I don't claim to be an expert but I've had my fair share of experience with it so I can hopefully answer any questions people may have~
I've used it a couple times for studying at midterm and final time. It's awesome. Though it does suck when youre hands are shaking at 5am and you cant sleep.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
Placebo drug eh, you really know how what ur talking about.
If adhd isnt real howcome people that "have it" get the oppsoite effects of people who dont have it? i.e if u have adhd and u take it will calm u down and make u focus if u dont have it and take it will act like a speed and actually get u high.
On November 10 2008 02:50 Hawk wrote: I've used it a couple times for studying at midterm and final time. It's awesome. Though it does suck when youre hands are shaking at 5am and you cant sleep.
On the other hand, it sometimes feels like you don't need to sleep at all. The best is when you look at the clock to start studying, and then you study, and then you realize that you've been looking effectively at the book for like 8 hours.
People who say "ADHD isn't real" typically have no knowledge of the nervous system, the drugs used to treat ADHD, or anything other than their belief people can make themselves concentrate. It's funny how dumb people are.
My brother, sister, and I have all been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD from a young age. My sister is the only one that takes adderall. She doesn't need it either, but she really doesn't care about school as much as we do and she says it helps her cram. I, for one, think its complete bullshit. I'm going to get a PHD without any drugs to help me focus, and I just don't buy how 30% of the kids on campus at LSU use adderall. It's bogus bullshit.
If somebody legitimately has a lot of trouble getting through school etc, and a doctor can certify this, then i think a prescription drug similar to this is okay if it works. However, there seems to be a fine line between being good enough to get along without drugs, and needing them.
When I was in high school I visited the school psychologist a couple of times because
a) He's awesome... I love talking to him b) Sleep deprivation... I was having trouble getting to bed and it was impacting my school day c) Few other reasons I can't remember
After we were chatting for a while he had made a comment that I was exhibiting signs of ADD. I was like O.o of course. He said he suspected I had a light to moderate case of the symptoms, but that I've just learned to deal with them on my own. I think the assumption that you necessarily need a drug to overcome ADD or college laziness/etc isn't true.
In fact, if there's something I need a drug in order to accomplish, I probably will no longer wish to accomplish it. I take pride in my accomplishments in school and elsewhere which were earned 100% by myself. (Don't get me wrong... if you have severe ADHD or something similar and need a prescribed drug to live a normal life, then I won't criticize you)
The one time that I abused Adderall was my senior year finals. It wasn't like I needed it or anything. What went down was that they were moving the school to a new building so they made everyone who had pill with the nurse pick them up the same day. What followed was ADD meds being handed out like candy. Here's how it went down:
Calculus: I focused so hardcore on that test that I didn't notice that everyone was passing my answers around. Epic cheat assist to loss of points
Orchestra: This one was a little more difficult because I normally have to focus on more than one thing at a time
Physics: I crashed here and had a panic attack at my desk. Chewed through a pencil.
In hindsight? not really a good idea. If you are going to be bad try it out in a situation that is safe for you so you don't fuck up your shit.
I think the side effects for people without adhd are potentially so harsh and unpredictable that you dont wanna dabble in adderal. it probably doesnt affect you permanently if you take it every now and then, prolly not until you've done it like 50 times, but you're either very lucky or kidding yourself if you take it that often and end up not being affected. I think for people with adhd, the long term side effects are not explored sufficiently, but the increased value they feel they get out of life is most likely worth it.
and adhd is obviously a real diagnosis, even if it is given too often, and adderal is obviously not a placebo drug. it's downright retarded to disagree with either of those statements.
I was obviously exaggerating. I just find it hard to buy all the morons who "claim" to have ADHD and need adderall just because everyone buys into that silly theory these days. It isn't that common, and doctors are over diagnosing and distributing potentially dangerous drugs.
I have an ex-friend who was diagnosed with ADHD when he was a kid probably took ritalin, by the time we were 15-16 he started doing meth and hasn't stopped as far as I know (25 now?). 98% of Tweakers are fucking shady people.
btw, is there a big difference between ritalin and adderal?
There is a run on diagnosis like ADHD. Nobody wants to be called stipid. So they are looking into other things that could be wrong with them to save face. Proffesionals go along with it because it is the politically correct thing to do. It is the everybody is special cultural trend.
BTW I'm not claiming ADHD is not real. I know 2 people who are diagnosed with it and they are different. Without Ritalin they are unbearable.
i've done it once studying for a final and it was basically like game genie for cramming. I studied for about 7 hours without losing focus but I wouldn't really do it again even given the choice.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
Placebo drug eh, you really know how what ur talking about.
If adhd isnt real howcome people that "have it" get the oppsoite effects of people who dont have it? i.e if u have adhd and u take it will calm u down and make u focus if u dont have it and take it will act like a speed and actually get u high.
maybe he just sucks at communication and meant to say that adhd is diagnosed for everything now. because he'd be right in that statement. but certianly, it aint a placebo.
and who cares if someone does or does not have adhd what matters is what the adderal does for them and how it effects their body and mind
some jealous people who can't identify with situations they are so judgemental of, yet the way they talk and act about it would make it seem like they went through it theirselves.
acting like you know what its like in someone else's shoes, it's pathetic
Drunk Thread and High Thread aside, I don't think we should be supporting the abuse of amphetamines. I'm sure it works wonders for those who are prescribed it correctly, but it is not to be used as a vessel to accomplish school work. Don't be pathetic.
can people give examples of adhd behaviour in real world setting (ie at your job amongst coworkers)
i have super hyperactive mind that makes pretty much everyone think i'm weird to some degree
(extremely open, spontaenious "unusual" ideas/observations that i constantly vocalise, intense need to talk to everyone about everything, often in totally inappropriate circumstance/to inappropriate people, if i see someone i "like" (just a coworker at work for instance) i might start running up to them and jumping up and down behind them saying their name repeatedly, will do stuff like draw over the veins on my hands just because it's interesting to me as one of a zillion examples, etc)
i'm very interested indeed in trying adderal (or a local similar since i don't think they sell it here) because i think if it works for travis it might work for me (altho i haven't really spoken to him about it or know him well, i just get the impression)
On November 10 2008 06:44 tika wrote: can people give examples of adhd behaviour in real world setting (ie at your job amongst coworkers)
I was unable to simply listen to people tell me how to do something. literally every 10 seconds i would space out for a little bit, or forget what they just told me. this is one example, there are many many more.
it didn't happen all the time though, just sometimes. sometimes my brain would be working better than other times.
You've described over and over how you actually need it. It honestly doesn't bother you if someone whose brain functions normally uses it to gain an advantage?
On November 10 2008 06:49 Jibba wrote: It is for people with jobs
says who?
You've described over and over how you actually need it. It honestly doesn't bother you if someone whose brain functions normally uses it to gain an advantage?
you are definitely asking the wrong guy that question.
On November 10 2008 06:44 tika wrote: can people give examples of adhd behaviour in real world setting (ie at your job amongst coworkers)
I was unable to simply listen to people tell me how to do something. literally every 10 seconds i would space out for a little bit, or forget what they just told me. this is one example, there are many many more.
it didn't happen all the time though, just sometimes. sometimes my brain would be working better than other times.
hrm i don't think i experience that , people very often say "you don't listen!"/"did you hear me?" but i think i DO but don't show any obvious sign of response (i'm far more "subtle" than most "real world" people are used to when it comes to certain things). like if someone tells/asks me to do something i might just walk off to do it (but without a response). i think this is simply because i don't deem a response particularly necessary..
eh i realise this seems VERY contradictory to what i've previously written lol but maybe it is based on my current mood (sometimes eg i might be exclaiming "ok!!!!!" and literally running off to do the task). probably my behaviour seems very "confused" since i am often SEVERELY fatigued (from lack of sleep/terrible diet/alcohol combined with taxing job (12 hour shifts, very active and emotional job)
not entirely sure what that means (since i duno nything about add) but perhaps you could say i'm very well conditioned to life/perserverence/"rational thinking/controlling emotions gets me thru". maybe? i dunno maybe you could say i have extremely high self control "when required"? duno
I've never taken it. But I'm always jealous of people who do WHEN THEY STUDY. I haven't done anything this weekend. There's no way I will finish my work for tomorrow. But someone who takes it can sit down at 8:00 PM, study till two, and be done.
However, they always take it during tests, too. And that doesn't seem to work so well. Especially not for girls. If you've seen a girl cry during an exam, it's prob b/c adderall/ rit.
the questions like "are you easily angered" i can answer yes and no....when im not at work ie driving with a friend/brother/sister etc i can be extremely violently vocally aggressive about pretty much anything you can imagine. imagine the guy always shouting at the TV when he gets drunk with friends, pissing everyone off.
but when im at work i have insane patience/self control, it's like i switch to a humble side of my personality due to the nature of my job (you can get fired for swearing)
once you get to the lower questions of http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm i can answer .20 with "yes" or "yes but i've learnt to control it with very rational way of thinking that lets me filter if i want, so, no." 21. yes. 22. yes. 23. moderate (altho when im in bed, yes. infact its almost like a hobby, i just play thru senarios like "apocalypse where im one of the few survivors" or random fantasy stuff.
24. yes...sort of. about 2/3 weeks ago i practically had a full blown breakdown because of this sort of thing, but now i have been able to understand WHY my mind is going crazy and use that information to my betterment (ie some form "enlightenment")
so uh got music playing and very tired again, not sure really what im typing
On November 10 2008 07:04 travis wrote: do you think you have A.D.D?
why do you even want adderall?
im curious how it will affect me since i have very unusual behaviour compared to for example my friends and many many coworkers. i dont think i have ADD because i know practically nothing about it, plus my behaviour seems much more complex/difficult to judge (since i have a high level of self control in certain situations ie those that i deem warrant it), hence asking for real world examples
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
lol
Placebo my ass. Amphetamines are real. Trust me. Try some...
Adderall = govt engineered speed = 4 different Amphetamine salts combined to help you become synthetically motivated.
I enjoy the drug, I've abused it plenty over the years. I can't get too into it because I don't like a lot of the side effects, like not sleeping, eating, and a lot of my compulsive behavior becomes worse (Biting nails, Clenching jaw, I smoke all my weed up I've also experienced anxiety when I've taken it and then had nothing to do but watch tv/browse TL ect because I feel like i need to be doing something more productive. ) lmao....
It's fun for SC, +25APM ezwin.
Whether ADHD is real or not, i won't argue, but i'm inclined to agree that's it's not properly diagnosed and all that jazz.... Growing up and being responsible is off topic. lmao.
* increased alertness * increased motivation * increased talkativeness * positive mood shift, sense of well-being
NEUTRAL
* reduced appetite (anorexia) * dilated pupils * flushing * loss of coordination * restlessness
NEGATIVE
* increased aggressiveness * paranoia * dry mouth * headache * increased heart rate (tachycardia) * increased breathing rate * increased blood pressure * rise in body temperature * fever and sweating * diarrhea or constipation * blurred vision * impaired speech * dizziness * uncontrollable movements (twitching, jerking, tremors, etc...) * insomnia * numbness * irregular heartbeat (palpitations, arrhythmia) * impotence / inability to achieve erection in men (high dose or chronic use) * convulsions (high dose) * dry, itchy skin (chronic use) * acne, sores (chronic use) * pallor (high dose or chronic use) * psychotic episodes (rare except in overdoses or after chronic use)
edit: for the most part, most of the negative side effects are quite rare. I've experienced prolly the first 5-10 of them, after that all pretty rare. The worst ones being paranoia and increased aggressiveness/irritability.
On November 10 2008 05:45 CharlieMurphy wrote: I have an ex-friend who was diagnosed with ADHD when he was a kid probably took ritalin, by the time we were 15-16 he started doing meth and hasn't stopped as far as I know (25 now?). 98% of Tweakers are fucking shady people.
btw, is there a big difference between ritalin and adderal?
lmao 99.9% of tweakers are fucking shady people.
Ritalin -> Methylphenidate is a central nervous system stimulant widely prescribed to treat attention deficit disorder. It is also used in the treatment of narcolepsy, mild depression, and in combination with other drugs in the treatment of chronic pain.
Adderall -> Amphetamine is a strong physical and mental stimulant available widely in both prescription and street forms. It is the standard against which all other stimulants are measured.
Ritalin is classified as a Central Nervous System stimulant, while Adderall is you're standard speed...
All in all, Stay away from both of them unless you're an experienced abuser or it's a one time deal, both are highly addictive, while neither would really lead to any long term damage physically, the addiction can damage everything else in your life, as well as lead you into trying the harder speeds when you can't find them... and those will fuck with your brain chemistry a bit too much.
All in all, do research before taking anything, ever. and sorry for triple post...
Just curious, I know during certain activitives i definately calm down with alcohol and can seemingly focus more and my mind doesnt wander (golf, social situations)
I dont have ADD or ADHD (at least its not diagnosed and I havent sought diagnosis or anything) but I am just curious.
On November 10 2008 07:45 tika wrote: alcohol heightens your emotions, allowing you to become more readily engaged by things (like comedy)
well, I know i feel like my mind wanders most of the time, unless i am really involved (IE starcraft)where something is reactionary (sports, like say: basketball)
However I know when golfing, getting drunk to a certain extent helps me turn my mind *off* so I dont really think as much and time just sort of goes by.
Same thing in social situations, havent really been drunk during school or work to see how that would work out.
Im just curious if its complete lack of motivation ;D
On November 10 2008 07:41 Sadist wrote: for people with ADD or ADHD
Does alcohol tend to help?
Just curious, I know during certain activitives i definately calm down with alcohol and can seemingly focus more and my mind doesnt wander (golf, social situations)
I dont have ADD or ADHD (at least its not diagnosed and I havent sought diagnosis or anything) but I am just curious.
that is a funny question. it depends on what it is helping with. answering this is kind of complicated.
I see my "ADD" as having 2 primary causes.
1.) an actual physical cause
and
2.) a psychological cause
now, the psychological cause manifests in many ways. Some would be: insecurities, conditioning, mood.
insecurities are things like "I don't think I can do this because...", and so I don't give it my all, and this increases my lack of focus. or "I don't want to look stupid", which in itself is a distraction and increases my lack of focus. just 2 examples.
conditioning would be, that at a point I got so tired of struggling with focusing sometimes, that I became conditioned to expect myself not to be able to focus. and so, this conditioning furthers the lack of focus. if you understand what I am saying.
mood would be, "ahh my life is shitty what is the point in trying", so there is a lack of focus, and also distractions caused by my bad mood itself.
now, alcohol certainly doesn't help with the physical cause. it clouds my mind and judgement, and if I am on adderall I can tell that it hurts my focus.
but, if I am not on aderall, then alcohol can help my focus, because it helps with all 3 psychological causes I listed.
On November 10 2008 07:42 travis wrote: well I think adderall must have negative consequences physically, after using it for long enough, even if within prescribed doses
I would agree, it is releasing seratonin ect and that will cause changes, hence why it's "a bit too much" as opposed to just at all. However I do think that there is a very strong argument that even adderall/ritalin/any SSRI, Antidepressant or ect could have teh same sort of changes, and all of them could be "a bit too much" from some perspectives.
IMO, it's stupid to make the distinction between ADHD and non-ADHD use. ADHD isn't just a label for those nightmare classmates who are wildly hyperactive and can't count to ten. There now are two subtypes: inattentive and hyperactive/impulsive. One can be predominantly one or somewhere in between. Those in with more of the inattentive symptoms are mostly capable of fitting into modern society (and hyperactive/impulsive is just fine for the army). It's just that they have a much, much better time with some medication. So the worth of the medication is that it improves quality of life for some people and lets them achieve more than they would have been able to otherwise. That's exactly what it does for people without ADHD. So why the distinction? If the medications are ultimately harmful, they'll be just as harmful for the ADHD population. If it's a moral issue, then is coffee drinking wrong too?
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
GTFO please.
EDIT: List of symptoms fixed (for me)
On November 10 2008 07:27 Motiva wrote:
EFFECTS LIST # POSITIVE
* increased alertness * increased motivation * increased talkativeness * positive mood shift, sense of well-being + improved judgement, less compulsive decision-making
NEUTRAL
* reduced appetite (anorexia) * dilated pupils * flushing * loss of coordination * restlessness
NEGATIVE
+ decreased creativity * increased aggressiveness * paranoia * dry mouth * headache * increased heart rate (tachycardia) * increased breathing rate * increased blood pressure * rise in body temperature * fever and sweating * diarrhea or constipation * blurred vision * impaired speech * dizziness * uncontrollable movements (twitching, jerking, tremors, etc...) * insomnia * numbness * irregular heartbeat (palpitations, arrhythmia) * impotence / inability to achieve erection in men (high dose or chronic use) * convulsions (high dose) * dry, itchy skin (chronic use) * acne, sores (chronic use) * pallor (high dose or chronic use) * psychotic episodes (rare except in overdoses or after chronic use)
edit: for the most part, most of the negative side effects are quite rare. I've experienced prolly the first 5-10 of them, after that all pretty rare. The worst ones being paranoia and increased aggressiveness/irritability.
I added a couple that weren't on the list, though i suppose i don't qualify for this thread since i *actually* have ADHD (FzeroXx's comments aside.)
I'm supposed to take it but I don't like to take it every day. I've had ADD since I was in 1st grade basically... complete inability to focus/concentrate. Anyway, I always feel great when I take it, it really "evens me out" so to speak - I can focus, concentrate, I don't feel as negative. But It tends to make me feel strung out if I take it 3-4 days in a row, so I try to avoid taking it unless I feel I REALLY need it.
On another note, Vyvanase is a much better drug. It's a similar chemical to Adderall but has a better time release mechanism. It's expensive as fuck w/o insurance though T_T
I love how everyone is getting pissed at me for stating what they already know. Anyone with adderall sells that shit because fucking lazy frat girls will suck your dick for it. Been there, done that. My comments were aimed at you lazy motherfuckers who abuse the shit during finals and act like you have ADD. It's a drug.
I used adderall once for an electrical engineering final I wasn't prepared for, and it literally saved my grade. It made me feel quick witted, happy and just generally A+. In fact it's so good that it scared me into never using it again!
Ohhhh, Meth!
My fave antidrug commercial.
I tried cocaine once (well like 8 times in one night) and I thought the adderall was much better.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
No fuckin' kidding, I hate these people who make up shit like this as an excuse to be lazy. I do think some people have ADHD but it's not something that you can do a blood test for and it's just way over diagnosed in my opinion based on no actual data.
I don't like it because I don't' use it and I don't like the idea of other people getting an advantage that i'm not using.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
No fuckin' kidding, I hate these people who make up shit like this as an excuse to be lazy. I do think some people have ADHD but it's not something that you can do a blood test for and it's just way over diagnosed in my opinion based on no actual data.
I don't like it because I don't' use it and I don't like the idea of other people getting an advantage that i'm not using.
It may be overdiagnosed, but it's traced heavily to excessive time in front of the TV when you're a baby/toddler o_o which many of our generation had. The problem is - you and the other people talking the same shit are not fit to judge who is faking it and who isn't Talking that kind of shit just pisses off the people who actually do have those problems, especially those of us who have been told we're making it up or using it as an excuse.
I've never taken adderall, but when I was in high school some kids were on dextro-amphetamine for add/adhd. For $5 we would buy them and they were great. You would get an 8 hour high that was just super energetic. It was really to energetic, one time i way over exercised because I just didnt get tired. I cant imagine how that would make someone concentrate at school, but I guess it works differently on people with the actual problems. It really was like being on speed, because it was just a derivative of speed(amphetamine). I really dont think it is a good idea for kids to be on that shit everyday unless they have some serious condition. That stuff is prescribed way to much.
On November 10 2008 16:02 Mastermind wrote: I've never taken adderall, but when I was in high school some kids were on dextro-amphetamine for add/adhd. For $5 we would buy them and they were great. You would get an 8 hour high that was just super energetic. It was really to energetic, one time i way over exercised because I just didnt get tired. I cant imagine how that would make someone concentrate at school, but I guess it works differently on people with the actual problems. It really was like being on speed, because it was just a derivative of speed(amphetamine). I really dont think it is a good idea for kids to be on that shit everyday unless they have some serious condition. That stuff is prescribed way to much.
dextro-amphetamine is one of the 4 amphetamine salts in adderall. From what I hear it's the best one to abuse.... you got the good stuff lol....
Definitely over diagnosed, possibly not even a good solution to ADD, and definitely prescribed way too much.
On November 10 2008 06:49 Jibba wrote: It is for people with jobs
You've described over and over how you actually need it. It honestly doesn't bother you if someone whose brain functions normally uses it to gain an advantage?
On November 10 2008 06:49 Jibba wrote: It is for people with jobs
You've described over and over how you actually need it. It honestly doesn't bother you if someone whose brain functions normally uses it to gain an advantage?
why the hell would that bother you..
Seriously? It's an exploit used in competition with others. Tons of people take it or lie about other disabilities when taking LSAT/GRE and I love to see the side effects causing a crash.
I have ADHD, but not a common diagnosis. My experience is quite irresponsible - it is believed now, that I have had ADHD all my life and it was never diagnosed. The problem is that I 'slipped' through the cracks all throughout my time in school, including college. So I have been completely oblivious to a problem that I learned to suppress or deal with. So about three months ago my mother finally suggested that I may have it and I should go to the doctor. So I found out that I displayed many a symptoms of it and I was put on Adderall asap. I cant say that it helps me think. The only change I feel is how my body feels stimulated. I can't say it helps me concentrate as my mind still wanders very easily. I also take Wellbutron (anti-depressant) so it may hinder or help it as well. There is too many factors to have poll or wide discussion - especially from those who dont have first hand experience. I definitely think both increase good mood, but as far as concentration - i give it +5 out of 10 to the thought process. People that don't use it should keep their asses shut. Your breathing shit into the air fools.
On November 10 2008 07:04 travis wrote: do you think you have A.D.D?
why do you even want adderall?
i'd like to try it, but from what i can see its prescription only in canada, i could be wrong however. but frankly i have alot of things silimair to your stories so i think it would be worth trying. I jsut find myself zoning out constantly.
On November 10 2008 06:49 Jibba wrote: It is for people with jobs
You've described over and over how you actually need it. It honestly doesn't bother you if someone whose brain functions normally uses it to gain an advantage?
why the hell would that bother you..
Seriously? It's an exploit used in competition with others. Tons of people take it or lie about other disabilities when taking LSAT/GRE and I love to see the side effects causing a crash.
life isnt a competition with others, its about being as good as you can be. if the side effects are so bad that you shouldnt use it, (which I think they are, at least if you use it often) then don't, and consider yourself better off, if the side effects are less bad than the positive it brings, then use it yourself..
Ok, well you and travis can train for Ninja Warrior together, but the rest of us that sort of like capitalism can concern ourselves with fair competition.
On November 11 2008 02:13 Jibba wrote: Ok, well you and travis can train for Ninja Warrior together, but the rest of us that sort of like capitalism can concern ourselves with fair competition.
If anyone can do it then it what way is it not fair?
On November 11 2008 01:45 NastyMarine wrote: I have ADHD, but not a common diagnosis. My experience is quite irresponsible - it is believed now, that I have had ADHD all my life and it was never diagnosed. The problem is that I 'slipped' through the cracks all throughout my time in school, including college. So I have been completely oblivious to a problem that I learned to suppress or deal with. So about three months ago my mother finally suggested that I may have it and I should go to the doctor. So I found out that I displayed many a symptoms of it and I was put on Adderall asap. I cant say that it helps me think. The only change I feel is how my body feels stimulated. I can't say it helps me concentrate as my mind still wanders very easily. I also take Wellbutron (anti-depressant) so it may hinder or help it as well. There is too many factors to have poll or wide discussion - especially from those who dont have first hand experience. I definitely think both increase good mood, but as far as concentration - i give it +5 out of 10 to the thought process. People that don't use it should keep their asses shut. Your breathing shit into the air fools.
so er ...what were/are your symtoms thruout ur life please
Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
ok I can understand that you do not like people faking a disability to get an advantage when it comes to tests. what I do not understand is, disliking people using adderall to get an advantage _while studying_. this strikes me as no different than drinking coffee to stay up longer.. if you think it gives them a genuine advantage, use it yourself, if you feel the side effects are too severe, then the ones who "cheat" are going to feel the backlash anyway. if you dont want to use it because it is illegal to use without having adhd/add, but you would use it if it were legal, be angry at whatever causes the illegality rather than those who "break the law"..
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
Yah but taking a test in a certain period of time doesn't mean you will know everything. It's not like Adderall makes you smarter.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
ADHD isn't really what it's made out to be by the APA and others. But Adderall being a dextroamphetamine is a psychoactive drug far from being a placebo, while it is not as effective as pure dextro or metamphetamine but it sure does it's job.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
So you believe that distribution of adderall is a good idea, as well as the diagnoses of ADD and ADHD?
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
So you believe that distribution of adderall is a good idea, as well as the diagnoses of ADD and ADHD?
I speak for myself. And in my case, yes, definitely.
Do you think all people have the same neurology? That all people think and feel the same way?
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
So you believe that distribution of adderall is a good idea, as well as the diagnoses of ADD and ADHD?
I speak for myself. And in my case, yes, definitely.
Do you think all people have the same neurology? That all people think and feel the same way?
No and if you think that's justification enough to say that people don't pay attention then perhaps we can just drop the case here. There's more at work here than neurological differences. I agree that people don't think and feel the same way, but this is something that you develop in your adolescence (which I stated), but I guess I'm just baiting you in an attempt to troll cuz that's what I like to do here evidently.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
So you believe that distribution of adderall is a good idea, as well as the diagnoses of ADD and ADHD?
I speak for myself. And in my case, yes, definitely.
Do you think all people have the same neurology? That all people think and feel the same way?
this is something that you develop in your adolescence
well,
1.) how would you possibly know if that is the case (even though I do think it largely is, but not wholly).
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
So you believe that distribution of adderall is a good idea, as well as the diagnoses of ADD and ADHD?
I speak for myself. And in my case, yes, definitely.
Do you think all people have the same neurology? That all people think and feel the same way?
this is something that you develop in your adolescence
well,
1.) how would you possibly know if that is the case (even though I do think it largely is, but not wholly).
2.) what is your point?
1) reading? Idunno I took 2 minutes to google the disease and tried to understand the disease a bit better. Not enough time to thoroughly look at every cause and reason for ADHD since I'm at work but that's the conclusion I would draw. It seems to be more sociological, at least to me.
2) My point is that ADHD is manufactured and the drug is inhibiting a disease that's uncertain. Who know's what adderall really can do long-term. It was foolish for me to just quote the 'placebo' response. I'm just saying adderall is just a manufactured drug that people believe is a cure-all for their attention-related issues. I don't pay attention sometimes, and I lose track of things, but do I have ADHD? Some would suggest yes (on a minor degree); however I would suggest no. I would never use a pill like adderall to make me focus. <--- I guess this is my point
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
This is what I came to post.
You have no knowledge of neurology, the drug, how it works. Thank you for expressing you belief people have the power to control their attention though, because that's all your contributed
You're right, and I still don't care either way. I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test. ADD and ADHD is just made up disease and the pill is just as bad. If parents actually spent the time being parents maybe there wouldn't be children who relied on pills to perform simple tasks that develop during your adolescence.
this is impressively ignorant like ignorant enough to make it plausible you are just baiting people
So you believe that distribution of adderall is a good idea, as well as the diagnoses of ADD and ADHD?
I speak for myself. And in my case, yes, definitely.
Do you think all people have the same neurology? That all people think and feel the same way?
this is something that you develop in your adolescence
well,
1.) how would you possibly know if that is the case (even though I do think it largely is, but not wholly).
2.) what is your point?
1) reading? Idunno I took 2 minutes to google the disease and tried to understand the disease a bit better. Not enough time to thoroughly look at every cause and reason for ADHD since I'm at work but that's the conclusion I would draw. It seems to be more sociological, at least to me.
2) My point is that ADHD is manufactured and the drug is inhibiting a disease that's uncertain. Who know's what adderall really can do long-term. It was foolish for me to just quote the 'placebo' response. I'm just saying adderall is just a manufactured drug that people believe is a cure-all for their attention-related issues. I don't pay attention sometimes, and I lose track of things, but do I have ADHD? Some would suggest yes (on a minor degree); however I would suggest no. I would never use a pill like adderall to make me focus. <--- I guess this is my point
ADHD is a term used to describe behavior. If you've studient neurology, you would know humans have an arousal system thats responsible for regulating waking, sleeping, and focusing on specific stimuli. In patients with ADHD, they actually have a deficiency in this system that inhibits their ability to focus for prolonged periods of time. I don't feel like going into all the neurology/biochemsitry, but I will briefly say ADHD drugs upregulate the functions of norepinephrine or serotonin which help keep us alert.
Not everyone has problems focusing. Some people can sit down and plow through hours of material. Others litterally don't have the attention to do so. There are neurological differences accountable for these factors and ADHD meds help with the consequences.
You may believe in free will or the power of effort to induce attention and focusing. Reality doesn't always match everyones beliefs, expecially yours.
I should also note that psych meds like Adderol are considered the most overprescribed and innappropriately prescribed drugs in recent history. But that doesn't detract from the existance of ADHD or its neurological/biochemical reality.
Just curious travis, doesn't your belief in the practice of neurology for your ADHD conflict with some of your spiritual beliefs? Or was that Inky that was against neuroscience.
On November 11 2008 07:03 Jibba wrote: Just curious travis, doesn't your belief in the practice of neurology for your ADHD conflict with some of your spiritual beliefs? Or was that Inky that was against neuroscience.
it conflicts at a point but I am not at that point yet
and it's not neurology or neuroscience that conflicts, it's the taking of any substance to change my mental state (which may have been what you meant in the first place)
first: add and adhd are the same. rather, adhd is the new name for add.
next: to those who have said "adhd isnt real" you are, quite simply, wrong. there are two types, and then a "combined" version of both types. both of these types have PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS; underdevelopment of various parts of the brain (most notably prefrontal cortex) that contribute to "normal" people's abilities to concentrate and control impulses both mental and physical.
yes, in all likelihood, it is over diagnosed. yes, adderall, wellbutrin, concerta, dexedrine, dextrostat,cylert, stratera, catapres, norpramin, tofranil, and ritalin, among others are abused. then again thats kind of the point. a definitive 'test' for adhd (that isnt used for the obvious controversy it would entail) is that when a "normal" person takes one of these medicines they will feel stimulated and intensely alert, whereas one with adhd is actually calmed by the medicines.
also, amber[light], saying: "I've never needed it and I will always look down upon people who 'rely' on this miracle pill to succeed in things that are so easy like studying for a test." is actually one of the most arrogant, ignorant things ive seen in a while. considering that humans cognitive abilities are relative, to say doing anything really is "easy" is subjective, and by objectively putting slander to it makes you sound like an ass.
On November 11 2008 10:02 bluemanrocks wrote: first: add and adhd are the same. rather, adhd is the new name for add.
I agree with everything else in your post but are you sure about this? Cuz in high school I had serious focus problems but I definitely did not have hyperactivity problems. I may have conditioned my brain to slow the fuck down, though.
On November 11 2008 10:02 bluemanrocks wrote: first: add and adhd are the same. rather, adhd is the new name for add.
I agree with everything else in your post but are you sure about this? Cuz in high school I had serious focus problems but I definitely did not have hyperactivity problems. I may have conditioned my brain to slow the fuck down, though.
ADD and ADHD aren't the same, but they appear similar and most people have no idea how to distinguish between the two. People with ADD are more often emotionally sensitive, overly dramatic, prone to daydreaming, and worriers. People with ADHD, on the other had, are more easily distracted, compulsive, tend to lie, and are rather self senstive. Both are hyperactive, but for different reasons. They appear somewhat similar but are remarkably different. The difference between ADD and ADHD are the brain centers involved. With ADD the problem is thought to be inadequate NE and H-5T flow to the parietal lobe while with ADHD the problem is thought to be frontal cortex.
i am fairly certain that though distinctions were clear in the past, add and adhd have now been accepted as the same thing. i could be wrong, and you could be spot on, but i thought i remembered reading that add was just another name for adhd, and vice versa. however, im sure even if that is the case there is still a lot of confusion. i also thought what you were describing was the two types of adhd (inattentive vs. hyperactive) rather than add vs adhd. anyways, glad to see not everyones a dope who thinks something doesnt exist because they havent seen it in action or maybe just havent paid attention.
For me I was just up for 2 days with unlimited energy (a gift from buying some acquaintance some pizza he stupidly left his cash elsewhere). I have to say running 1/8th mile to the convince store while listening to speedcore was quite an experience.
i'm definitely adhd. I was considering trying adderall a couple years back, but really I'm sort of glad I didn't. It's just not something i'd want to be on for the long run, and god knows I would be. very addictive personality.
On November 11 2008 01:45 NastyMarine wrote: I have ADHD, but not a common diagnosis. My experience is quite irresponsible - it is believed now, that I have had ADHD all my life and it was never diagnosed. The problem is that I 'slipped' through the cracks all throughout my time in school, including college. So I have been completely oblivious to a problem that I learned to suppress or deal with. So about three months ago my mother finally suggested that I may have it and I should go to the doctor. So I found out that I displayed many a symptoms of it and I was put on Adderall asap. I cant say that it helps me think. The only change I feel is how my body feels stimulated. I can't say it helps me concentrate as my mind still wanders very easily. I also take Wellbutron (anti-depressant) so it may hinder or help it as well. There is too many factors to have poll or wide discussion - especially from those who dont have first hand experience. I definitely think both increase good mood, but as far as concentration - i give it +5 out of 10 to the thought process. People that don't use it should keep their asses shut. Your breathing shit into the air fools.
so er ...what were/are your symtoms thruout ur life please
A lack of short term concentration. To say it generally. I mean I remember names, and faces quiet easily. Conversations, lectures, or simple instructions dont always sink in, even when I am fully paying attention. Also a very wide variety of thought contributes to ADHD type symptoms (ie mind is wandering and does not take in all external communication as normal) - this could be, sometimes, a misdiagnoses where some experience this symptom but do not experience anything hindering them with instructions etc.
On November 11 2008 07:40 travis wrote: well I think that much of it is misleading, but I don't think that it's false and I think that it does uncover bit by bit how the brain functions.
now psychology, that is something that I believe is largely false(though starting to get better).
But I do think that the monist view of consciousness that neuroscientists have is false and misleading.
so there is a chance it was me that gave you that impression
By false psychology I guess you're talking about Freud and his psychoanalysis and other stuff like analysing ink dots. Though that might be true this is a thing of the past and most psychology that is taught nowadays is based on cognitive psychology which is definately scientific. And you have to remember that these older beliefs still helped pave the way for psychology today.
If you think other aspects of it are false as well please enlighten me.
Also psychology is HUGE, you can't just say 'it's largely false', what aspects are false? Which approaches? What beliefs in psychology are false? You're saying the scientific study of mental processes and behavior in general is largely false, why?
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
Yah but taking a test in a certain period of time doesn't mean you will know everything. It's not like Adderall makes you smarter.
Adderall makes you recall shit quicker and think faster, yes it makes you temporarily "smarter". It's kinda scary, like I said.
i'm a bit shocked there are people here who don't think adhd isn't real. having adhd isn't as black and white as having a working leg or a broken one but it should be pretty obvious that there are people with serious focus problems. this goes on the same level as saying people shouldn't take anti-depressants because everyone should just learn to be happy without a pill. people have massively different brains that function on different levels with unique strengths and weaknesses. it's obvious some people have problems focusing just like some people have problems with anxiety and some people get overly depressed for no apparent reason. it's just unrealistic to expect other people to deal with shit like that when a solution that can help their entire lives out is just one prescription away.
addreall will definitely help you focus but it has it's bad sides. the comedown can be terrible and it's often very difficult to eat while you're on it, hence lots of people losing weight when on a prescription. i do think it's a great drug that can help a lot of people out as long as it's taken in moderation.
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
Yah but taking a test in a certain period of time doesn't mean you will know everything. It's not like Adderall makes you smarter.
Adderall makes you recall shit quicker and think faster, yes it makes you temporarily "smarter". It's kinda scary, like I said.
it makes you focus more. it doesn't make you smarter. recalling stuff quickly is a matter of focus.
I think people can question whether ADD/ADHD are legit. They simply describe an amalgamation of "symptoms" and the medication does not "fix" anything. These symptoms are considered problematic because of the expectations imposed upon children. It could be rationally argued that the standards we hold children to, what we make them do, expecting them to sit still and focusing and being quiet, are abnormal. I've heard psychologists say that the public education system is designed to favor you girls over boys, who are naturally rambunctious and adventurous. This leaves male children prone to marginalization and medicalized as having a problem when compared to a skewed institutional norm.
Imagine if we lived in a warrior society, and all the naturally-passive people received diagnoses of ADD: Aggression Deficit Disorder, to explain why they are pussed out and limp-wristed. The treatment of course being a steroidal regimen.
This sounds about as reasonable as giving mind-wandering kids amphetamines to help them focus. Tell me if I'm missing something.
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
Yah but taking a test in a certain period of time doesn't mean you will know everything. It's not like Adderall makes you smarter.
Adderall makes you recall shit quicker and think faster, yes it makes you temporarily "smarter". It's kinda scary, like I said.
it makes you focus more. it doesn't make you smarter. recalling stuff quickly is a matter of focus.
It spikes your mental ability for a period of time, call that what you want. You're mincing my words. This is not a mystery, it's basically meth. Meth heads are pretty sharp, you ever played scrabble at 5:30am??
no i think you're right headbangaa, there is definitely a social construct that forces some categories of people to be at risk of slipping thru the cracks. someone who hardly ever needed to sleep might do well well living in the woods 1500 years ago because he or she was less prone to getting robbed or attacked. yet in modern day society that person might not be able to get set to a schedule of working a 9 to 5 job and it may ultimately affect them negatively.
there's nothing inherently wrong about people who can't focus, but it's always better if we can help them in their lives, especially lives where they are expected to be on the ball for most of the day.
See with me, I was always a calm child in school, so HeadBangaa, you are wrong here. ADD or maybe ADHD rather, does not only define soley on whether they are radically energetic compared to other students. In my case I was not though now my doctor made it clear that I had solid symptons at my current age (21)
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
Yah but taking a test in a certain period of time doesn't mean you will know everything. It's not like Adderall makes you smarter.
Adderall makes you recall shit quicker and think faster, yes it makes you temporarily "smarter". It's kinda scary, like I said.
it makes you focus more. it doesn't make you smarter. recalling stuff quickly is a matter of focus.
i reduced my alcohol and weed for a few weeks (after being alcoholic) and started reading engaging things. my memory and CONFIDENCE in my memory increased SUBSTANCIALLY. if you are a lazy alcho fun loving bitch like i am/was , but want to improve vital aspects of yourself, then quit drinking, smoking, and start to read engaging things. IT WORKS PEOPLE ITS NOT JUST SOME SPECULATION. YOU DO GET SATISFACTION FROM THIS TO THE POINT OF NOT WANTING TO DRINK EVER AGAIN...SO LONG AS YOU MAINTAIN IT (by continueing to keep yourself extremely engaged by other things)
On November 12 2008 01:12 Hawk wrote: wow, a lot of stupid shit in this thread.
adhd isnt real? psychology is mostly false?
HEY I CANT SEE GRAVITY, CLEARLY FALSE
science isnt pick and fucking choose people
do you even know how psychology works?
please explain how it's 'false'
they dont do research? they dont conduct experienments? what in gods name would make it a farce
hmmm I think you are right, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. But not really that bad...
I am a Psychology major and I feel that Psychology could by some perspectives considered largely false. This depends on your criteria, because since Neuroscience, Brian Scanning, Ect the list goes on are all not really very developed as a science, this leads a lot of the information in psychology to be very strong correlations. Correlations aren't necessarily true.
Psychology is a correlation between what we observe and what we can prove in my eyes.
Research + Experiments != that which cannot be proven in an experiment such as... motive, perceptions, the human mind.... which psychology is a study of, yes?
and ADD/ADHD do exist, why is this an argument? Yes they are obviously over diagnosed....
Drugs aren't bad unless they cause long-term damage or a very strong addiction... but that's because addictions can destroy lives, not necessarily the drugs... Adderall is fine, even if you don't need it... It's just a matter of self control on all counts if you ask me...
On November 12 2008 06:02 HeadBangaa wrote: I think people can question whether ADD/ADHD are legit. They simply describe an amalgamation of "symptoms" and the medication does not "fix" anything. These symptoms are considered problematic because of the expectations imposed upon children. It could be rationally argued that the standards we hold children to, what we make them do, expecting them to sit still and focusing and being quiet, are abnormal. I've heard psychologists say that the public education system is designed to favor you girls over boys, who are naturally rambunctious and adventurous. This leaves male children prone to marginalization and medicalized as having a problem when compared to a skewed institutional norm.
Imagine if we lived in a warrior society, and all the naturally-passive people received diagnoses of ADD: Aggression Deficit Disorder, to explain why they are pussed out and limp-wristed. The treatment of course being a steroidal regimen.
This sounds about as reasonable as giving mind-wandering kids amphetamines to help them focus. Tell me if I'm missing something.
On November 11 2008 03:24 HeadBangaa wrote: Jibba, what do you think about cigarettes? That's a mental stimulant.
I've never thought of telling my coworker that he's being unfair AND stinky (hate working with smokers; always taking free breaks and smelling shitty).
Cigarettes/caffeine aren't even close to the same level, especially once your body adjusts and your performance decreases without having them. If something offers enough of an advantage, it almost becomes a minimum requirement for everyone to stay par, like we saw with steroids in baseball.
I'm not even just talking about using it to study. Tons of people take it because they wouldn't be able to finish the test in time without it. The intention is really no different than faking the disability to have the time limit removed. Then it's no longer a judge of people's ability because they're certainly not using it any other time.
Yah but taking a test in a certain period of time doesn't mean you will know everything. It's not like Adderall makes you smarter.
Adderall makes you recall shit quicker and think faster, yes it makes you temporarily "smarter". It's kinda scary, like I said.
it makes you focus more. it doesn't make you smarter. recalling stuff quickly is a matter of focus.
It spikes your mental ability for a period of time, call that what you want. You're mincing my words. This is not a mystery, it's basically meth. Meth heads are pretty sharp, you ever played scrabble at 5:30am??
I agree with you in general...
A big problem with diagnosing ADD and several other mental "disorders" is that the drugs don't really fix the problems... they just cover them up... Psychologists don't know whether the environment is causing the brain to build these chemicals, or if the brain is producing the chemicals which in turn causes the person to perceive the environment as such is described by said disorder. The old Catch-22 bullshit.... We don't know what comes first the chemical imbalance or the reality of the disorder... if that makes sense? I'm sure i could word it better...
But then, What is the solid scientific argument for the everyone not being pumped full of drugs? A massive colony of sheep-ants might be beneficial to our society if we could just pump every full of prozac and adderall everyday... What is a slightly shorter lifespan in the eyes of increased cooperation and productivity among all people in said society?
As for the school systems... The list of problems is so large that it even carries over into our culture(s).... As a left handed child, do you think I was provided left handed siccors? What about a computer with the mouse on the left? pfft, whatever, you can't please everyone. The best you can do is make the most generalized system you can that applies to as many as possible... and then you try to tackle problems for special situations as they arise... While there is a strong argument that the problem with children needing ADD medication just need more discipline and perhaps a better system which caters to their needs and there is no disorder.... We can't change the fact that for those children, the system does not work for them. We can change the system, or cover it up...
As for ADD making you smarter, this depends on your definition of intelligence... If your definition is the speed at which you adapt to your surroundings... well then we should just call ADD kids stupid because their surroundings are a system that don't work for them... Adderall FTW...
I do think ADD is a real disorder however and should be addressed, but is certainly over diagnosed, and this is all just bullshit. lmao.
On November 12 2008 08:01 Boonbag wrote: DRUgz r bad to teh brainz
Huh Oh news flash =[
Thank you for your contribution to the thread, but..... Which drugs? Ibuprofen? Acetometaphin? Alprozolam? THC? WTF Are you talking about? Educate yourself and provide evidence, or troll less please?
edit2: if you're trying to state that smoking meth is bad... well a car is bad for the atmosphere, and a chainsaw is bad for your arm.
It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society.
On November 12 2008 08:19 aRod wrote: It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society.
/agreed....
But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol...
On November 12 2008 08:19 aRod wrote: It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society.
/agreed....
But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol...
This is a good question, I would need to see studies (which don't exist yet) on the long term impact of the regular use of amphetamines as ADHD meds. But if it helps these kids do well in school and become functional adults I would say yes.
On November 12 2008 08:19 aRod wrote: It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society.
/agreed....
But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol...
This is a good question, I would need to see studies (which don't exist yet) on the long term impact of the regular use of amphetamines as ADHD meds. But if it helps these kids do well in school and become functional adults I would say yes.
I am inclined to agree, however the only real issue I have is the lack of education (on the drug and ect) and choice on the child's part. What if the child doesn't want to become a linear thinking focused student, but instead an abstract artist with whom opium would be a better creative outlet? (obviously the opium is a joke, but it's also used to illustrate a point)
On November 12 2008 05:22 Frits wrote: If you think other aspects of it are false as well please enlighten me.
The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this.
There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect.
Neuropsychology is starting to change that but that's only because of the "neuro" part, not the "psychology".
I am not saying there is nothing to gain from psychology, that one can't further their understanding of others by taking a psych course.
What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be.
On November 12 2008 08:19 aRod wrote: It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society.
/agreed....
But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol...
I don't take adderall for society, I take it for me.
On November 12 2008 05:38 MyLostTemple wrote: i'm a bit shocked there are people here who don't think adhd isn't real. having adhd isn't as black and white as having a working leg or a broken one but it should be pretty obvious that there are people with serious focus problems. this goes on the same level as saying people shouldn't take anti-depressants because everyone should just learn to be happy without a pill. people have massively different brains that function on different levels with unique strengths and weaknesses. it's obvious some people have problems focusing just like some people have problems with anxiety and some people get overly depressed for no apparent reason. it's just unrealistic to expect other people to deal with shit like that when a solution that can help their entire lives out is just one prescription away.
addreall will definitely help you focus but it has it's bad sides. the comedown can be terrible and it's often very difficult to eat while you're on it, hence lots of people losing weight when on a prescription. i do think it's a great drug that can help a lot of people out as long as it's taken in moderation.
Thats why you take at the same time you smoke weed.
The human species has not evolved to sit stil 8 hours a day 5 days a week. A large group can't keep up 10 years of their lives cramming useless trivia into their memmory. Language, math and a few other subjects excluded it comes down more to repitition and cramming. I am not suprised there are so many learning disorders according to our schooling systems.
I thought ADD is not ADHD. ADD is without the hyperactivity. AM I Rite?
On November 12 2008 08:19 aRod wrote: It may well be the case that ADHD traits were selected for long ago during our tribal/warrior days. However, it's important to realise why ADHD is considered a "disorder" and not a disease. A disorder is used medically as a functional abnormality or disturbance. Why it may not be functionally abnormal for kids to be hyperactive, have short attention spands, and be unable to focus, it is certainly a functional disturbance in our society.
/agreed....
But is it morally just to have kids take speed to justify our social norms? lol...
I don't take adderall for society, I take it for me.
Yea, I don't have any problems with taking adderall, I think it's a fine drug. I'm talking about giving it to kids who don't know what they are doing, and only so they'll function properly according to the norms of our society (school standards ect.)
On November 12 2008 08:59 travis wrote: The human species evolved to do whatever the human species does.
Otherwise no new species would ever do anything new.
Evolution takes like 20 generations for the most subtle changes? Not sure on that, correct me if I'm wrong... Luckily evolution will be mechanized right?
It will be interesting to see the result our current and future standards of living will have in like 30 generations regardless...
On November 12 2008 08:57 KaasZerg wrote: The human species has not evolved to sit stil 8 hours a day 5 days a week. A large group can't keep up 10 years of their lives cramming useless trivia into their memmory. Language, math and a few other subjects excluded it comes down more to repitition and cramming. I am not suprised there are so many learning disorders according to our schooling systems.
I thought ADD is not ADHD. ADD is without the hyperactivity. AM I Rite?
Yeah, both terms are still used, but apparently ADD is no longer a diagnosis. I just found this out today as it conflicts with my previous post. ADHD now has two types, one with hyperactivity and one without hyperactivity.
On November 12 2008 05:22 Frits wrote: If you think other aspects of it are false as well please enlighten me.
The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this.
There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect.
Neuropsychology is starting to change that but that's only because of the "neuro" part, not the "psychology".
I am not saying there is nothing to gain from psychology, that one can't further their understanding of others by taking a psych course.
What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be.
erm that's just not true
One of the most important principles psychologists have is based on the fact that as a psychologist you have to conduct research that serves purpose and has value to mankind. (ie: applicable knowledge) This is on the list of ethics all psychologists have to work by.
What you're talking about is structuralism, founded by Titchener before behaviorism was popularized and basically killed off structuralism in the US because it had no aim for practical knowledge. This happened at least 50 years ago.
On November 12 2008 05:22 Frits wrote: If you think other aspects of it are false as well please enlighten me.
The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this.
There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect.
Neuropsychology is starting to change that but that's only because of the "neuro" part, not the "psychology".
I am not saying there is nothing to gain from psychology, that one can't further their understanding of others by taking a psych course.
What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be.
erm that's just not true
One of the most important principles psychologists have is based on the fact that as a psychologist you have to conduct research that serves purpose and has value to mankind. (ie: applicable knowledge) This is on the list of ethics all psychologists have to work by.
What you're talking about is structuralism, founded by Titchener before behaviorism was popularized and basically killed off structuralism in the US because it had no aim for practical knowledge. This happened at least 50 years ago.
you're not addressing any of my points that you quoted.
1.)
The problem with psychology is that psychology works in tendencies. It's the only science that does this.
2.)
There are no laws in psychology. There is no direct cause and effect.
3.)
What I am saying is that what you learn in a psych course will not always be applicable for the given situation, whereas what you learn in physics, biology, chemistry, etc will be.
if you're gonna quote my post, address the points in the post
Travis, psychology is so broad a topic it's hard to talk about it unless you dive into specifics. There are how many branches of psychology now? I have no idea, but it's at least 30.
You can talk about behavioral psychology which is extremely analytical and extremely specific or you can start talking about someone having a Freudian anal retentive personality which frankly has no scientific value. But in reality fields like cognitive psychology, clinical psychology, and neuropsychology are based on scientific study, numbers/statistics, and observation.
The suggestion that there are no laws or direct cause and effect in psychology is rediculous. With neuropsychology, they do deep brain stimulation to determine what brain areas are involved with what. Did you know that if they stimulate an area in your brain called the septum that you will innevitably burst out obsenities. A neuropsychologist would say people with hyperactive septums or septal abnormalities are prone to curse. Classical conditioning is another example of a law that is applicable to all animals of a certain species with certain cognitive abilities.
Overall though, your right, psychology largely works in "tendencies," but psychologist gather data to support these tendencies. For instance a clinical psychologist might site a study that say, "individuals abused as children are 10 times more likely to sexually abuse their own children."
its mainly for adhd (extremely hyper) and no, not ADD.
its basically legal meth and in fact it isn't good for you. Many people think its harmless because of the fact that it is legal. Not true.
to a normal person it has the same effects as meth and makes you happy / feeling good / alert etc...
to a person with adhd, it has a somewhat reverse effect and instead of speeding things up for them, it slows them down / calms them / still makes them feel good / helps them focus.
I wouldn't fake ADHD to get this, its irresponsible / stupid.
All of this is what my doctor / friend have both told me.
On November 12 2008 10:07 aRod wrote: The suggestion that there are no laws or direct cause and effect in psychology is rediculous. With neuropsychology, they do deep brain stimulation to determine what brain areas are involved with what.
as I said,
"Neuropsychology is starting to change that but that's only because of the "neuro" part, not the "psychology"."
Did you know that if they stimulate an area in your brain called the septum that you will innevitably burst out obsenities.
This is exactly what I am talking about. This is tendency. This is what "generally" happens. I wager everything I have that if you take a serious buddhist monk and test this on him and the results will be different.
Classical conditioning is another example of a law that is applicable to all animals of a certain species with certain cognitive abilities.
no, it is not a law. and it not always applicable(though obviously, behavior of animals becomes more and more predictable as you go down the evolutionary chain
but this is certainly not a law. it is as much a law as "pine needles on trees will be green in the spring".
On November 12 2008 10:10 NastyMarine wrote: There is most definitely cause and effect models that can be applicable in all situations. For instance the S->R model.
care to enlighten me on what you are talking about? because I have no clue
Travis you're critisizing psychology on not being an exact science. That's so incredibly rediculous.
If you had any idea about the amount of things that attribute to behavior you wouldn't make such rediculous statements. Ofcourse you have to generalize behavior, it's mostly based on positional factors which makes behavior incredibly hard to predict.
You can't make an exact theory on something that is influenced by positional factors because the possibilities of situations are endless, which makes it impossible to predict behavior 100%. So we study things that are generally true in certain situations that results in practical knowledge.
On November 10 2008 02:42 FzeroXx wrote: Placebo drug. Grow up and be responsible. ADHD isn't real.
ADHD is all too real. But it's misdiagnosed quite often.
You can't just tell someone to "grow up and be responsible" and expect it to just happen. I understand you were intending to be blunt, but you're also wrong.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD. I know it's real and I consider myself to be a severe case.
As a young child, probably about 3 or 4, my signs were very apparent. When my pre-school teacher would instruct the children in my class to report to recess or the next activity, she would repeatedly have to instruct me to do so because I was not paying attention.
Did I choose to not pay attention?
Was I disobedient?
Was I lazy?
Of course not! At that age one is not able to make the conscious decision to blow things off. I just did not have the attention span or ability to concentrate of a normal child.
In first grade I had an evil teacher (she had a nervous breakdown at the end of the year followed by a hiatus) who would make fun of me every time one of my belongings was brought to class because I left it somewhere. As one can imagine, this occurred almost every day...
People say "everyone has ADD." Yes, like I said before, it's often misdiagnosed because people want an excuse to take drugs or use the label as a crutch.
My signs when I was young however, are not common. In fact, the only reason I know about my pre-school experience is because the teacher pulled my mother aside to tell her of my unusual behavior because it concerned her.
Today I still have great trouble remembering things and paying attention. I've probably lost 8 or 9 jackets over the course of high school. I also can't keep still.
Like a previous poster said, Adderall has the opposite effect on those with ADHD. I assume this is true considering in some posts people complain of "jitters" and "bouncing off the walls." When I took Adderall I had none of that. It calmed me down a lot and helped me focus.
However, when I'd come off it it would make me seriously depressed and I couldn't live well taking it regularly. Helped me get a 2050 on the SAT though.
ADHD should not be taken lightly. It's serious considering those who REALLY have it are blamed for all their problems their whole life which leads to a lack of confidence, motivation, and self-respect.
So... When someone says, "ADHD is a made up disease," or "ADHD is just an excuse," it gets me really angry because I know what I and others like me have been through.
On November 12 2008 10:37 Frits wrote: Travis you're critisizing psychology on not being an exact science. That's so incredibly rediculous.
Criticizing? When was I criticizing? If I call a cloud water am I criticizing the cloud?
And what is so bad about criticizing, anyways?
If you had any idea about the amount of things that attribute to behavior you wouldn't make such rediculous statements.
what?
Of course you have to generalize behavior, it's mostly based on positional factors which makes behavior incredibly hard to predict.
well that would go hand in hand with my point now wouldn't it.
You can't make an exact theory on something that is influenced by positional factors because the possibilities of situations are endless, which makes it impossible to predict behavior 100%. So we study things that are generally true in certain situations that results in practical knowledge.
yes I completely agree. how does this negate anything I said?
It's rediculous to claim it's not a real disorder because there are clearly underdeveloped parts of the brain and faulty neurotransmitters in people who have ADHD. What we should do with people who suffer from it is open for debate like HeadBangaa made clear but you can't argue against it being a real disorder.
On November 12 2008 10:43 aRod wrote: Since you refuse to label classical conditioning as a law, we will call it "the thing that works every time in capable animals."
I will humor you and say okay, a given type of conditioning works with a given animal 100% of the time.
So I ask you - are the results the exact same every time? Does it always take the same amount of time to work? Does it always result in precisely the same behavior?
I'd be willing to take that bet with you on the Buddhist monk. Whatever words he finds obsene, he will utter them when his septum is stimulated.
You can't make an exact theory on something that is influenced by positional factors because the possibilities of situations are endless, which makes it impossible to predict behavior 100%. So we study things that are generally true in certain situations that results in practical knowledge.
yes I completely agree. how does this negate anything I said?
- You said psychology was largely false, that's unconstructive criticism.
- With what point? It certainly doesn't make a point for psychological knowledge being false. It makes clear that psychology is very complicated, not that it's false.
-You said that psychological knowledge doesn't lead to practical knowledge in every situation. Ofcourse it doesn't you have to generalize situations for it to be an accurate but how does that make psychology largely false?
What I got from your arguments is that you think lots of things in psychology are false (which they aren't there are just other things that influence behavior that would lead you to believe a certain law isn't a law all of a sudden) because there isn't an accurate law for it that predicts it. I'm trying to make clear that that would be nearly impossible but that that doesn't have to mean psychology is largely false.
On November 12 2008 10:16 G5 wrote: to a person with adhd, it has a somewhat reverse effect and instead of speeding things up for them, it slows them down / calms them / still makes them feel good / helps them focus.
People keep saying this, but I don't know of any scientific evidence to support this claim. The strongest evidence (still non-scientific though, since that is inherent with something like ADD) I've seen is against. People who do not really have ADD have said, in this thread even, what you described above is true of them...
On November 12 2008 10:37 Frits wrote: Travis you're critisizing psychology on not being an exact science. That's so incredibly rediculous.
Criticizing? When was I criticizing? If I call a cloud water am I criticizing the cloud?
And what is so bad about criticizing, anyways?
If you had any idea about the amount of things that attribute to behavior you wouldn't make such rediculous statements.
what?
Of course you have to generalize behavior, it's mostly based on positional factors which makes behavior incredibly hard to predict.
well that would go hand in hand with my point now wouldn't it.
You can't make an exact theory on something that is influenced by positional factors because the possibilities of situations are endless, which makes it impossible to predict behavior 100%. So we study things that are generally true in certain situations that results in practical knowledge.
yes I completely agree. how does this negate anything I said?
- You said psychology was largely false, that's unconstructive criticism.
The only thing I said regarding psychology's merits is that it can be useful. If you construe my post as criticism, that is fine. I was unaware "psychology" was going to be reading my posts so I really had no intention of criticizing it.
- With what point? It certainly doesn't make a point for psychological knowledge being false. It makes clear that psychology is very complicated, not that it's false.
false isn't really the word I would have used had I known there would be a big discussion about it. a better term would be "inaccurate".
not to say there isn't psychology which is taught and is false. but there is less and less of that, these days.
-You said that psychological knowledge doesn't lead to practical knowledge in every situation. Ofcourse it doesn't you have to generalize situations for it to be an accurate but how does that make psychology largely false?
I did not say that it does.
What I got from your arguments is that you think lots of things in psychology are false (which they aren't there are just other things that influence behavior that would lead you to believe a certain law isn't a law all of a sudden) because there isn't an accurate law for it that predicts it. I'm trying to make clear that that would be nearly impossible but that that doesn't have to mean psychology is largely false.
We have been agreeing for a while here now.
If you want me to change my statement to "psychology is largely conditionally false", then fine.
There are fine reasons to question the validity of some psychology as a science... Even so, a lot of it is real science, and a lot can be learned from the majority of all of it when applied to the correct perspectives......
Copied and Pasted from wikipedia on the validity of psychology as a science: + Show Spoiler +
A common criticism of psychology concerns its fuzziness as a science. Philosopher Thomas Kuhn's 1962 critique implied psychology overall was in a pre-paradigm state, lacking the agreement on overarching theory found in mature sciences such as chemistry and physics. Because some areas of psychology rely on research methods such as surveys and questionnaires, critics have claimed that psychology is not as scientific as many assume. Other phenomena that psychologists are interested in such as personality, thinking and emotion cannot be directly measured and are often inferred from subjective self-reports, which may be of limited use to an objectifying science.
The validity of probability testing as a research tool has been called into question. There is concern that this statistical method may promote trivial findings as meaningful, especially when large samples are used.[33] Some psychologists have responded with an increased use of effect size statistics, rather than sole reliance on the traditional p<.05 decision rule in statistical hypothesis testing.
In recent years, and particularly in the U.S., there has been increasing debate about the nature of therapeutic effectiveness and about the relevance of empirically examining psychotherapeutic strategies.[34] One argument states that some therapies are based on discredited theories and are unsupported by empirical evidence. The other side points to recent research suggesting that all mainstream therapies are of about equal effectiveness, while also arguing that controlled studies often do not take into consideration real-world conditions (e.g. the high co-morbidity rate or the experience of clinicians); that research is heavily biased towards the methods of the cognitive behavioral therapies (CBT); and that it typically under-represents minority groups.
On November 12 2008 10:44 JadeFist wrote: So... When someone says, "ADHD is a made up disease," or "ADHD is just an excuse," it gets me really angry because I know what I and others like me have been through.
There are at least enough verified cases of people using it as an excuse for it to be common. Not sure why it should be believed that it is often very different without any evidence to support it... (besides testimonies that people with ADD really have unique problems that you cannot imagine (yet somehow they can imagine what a "normal" person is like, and that they are different...)).
Things like losing jackets and performing badly in class are obviously unspecific to ADD, so could people please stop trying to use that as evidence, let alone proof?
Question: is there such a thing as someone who is just bad in school and forgetful without having a disease to blame?????? It seems like there isn't.
On November 12 2008 22:25 Servolisk wrote: Things like losing jackets and performing badly in class are obviously unspecific to ADD, so could people please stop trying to use that as evidence, let alone proof?
I don't think anyone tried to use it as evidence or proof, they were just elaborating on what it was like to be in their shoes. Why in god's name would any of us seek to provide evidence or proof of whether or not we have A.D.D.? who give a flying fuck?
I dont have any personal experiances with the drug. But i have with the people using this. I think it makes people very dull people. It smoothens the depth of a person. As any drug wil imho.
I'll just live my life as it is. No need for drugs.. (mkay?)
On November 13 2008 02:19 wo0py wrote: I dont have any personal experiances with the drug. But i have with the people using this. I think it makes people very dull people. It smoothens the depth of a person. As any drug wil imho.
I'll just live my life as it is. No need for drugs.. (mkay?)
are you sure they weren't taking horse tranquilizers? unless they really had ADHD (which the drug is meant for), it usually makes you very talkative and social.. any drug will smooth the depth of a person? really? haha. funny stuff guy.