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NOW there we went offtopic, gg no re.
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On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:disagree
Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated
Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.
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On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:45 Hawk wrote:
Uh-oh, better watch out! The inner elitist in WIP is coming out! You can't compete with MIT!
Haha, but isn't it ridiculous how some random kid demands that you should have read his posts? I mean, I'm having quite the busy time with other people who are exchanging with me... Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:46 ._. wrote:On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too. Such as? (1) Persecution of those with faith in China. Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves. (2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though. (3) Assyrian Genocide Again, no atheists involved. (4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case. (5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire. Nero was an atheist? You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?  It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer? Are you kidding me. Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition? My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not? No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts? Prove to me that your not some stubborn Christian with a terrible and misinterpreted definition of Atheism? Why not read my posts before you continue on with your ignorance? Why not listen to criticism of others every so often? Even if I am unknown, why not take the effort into opening your mind? Wait, why should I prove anything to you? I'm certainly not ignorant. And as you can see, I have been criticizing both sides of the playing field, atheists and Christians alike. So, the fact that you're bitching at my "ignorance" and failure to read your posts makes me LESS motivated to skim through several pages of forum just to find them.
I guess your style of debating differs from mine. Generally, I don't give my arguement, then stick my fingers in my ears and go LA LALALALALALAL
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On March 27 2008 06:36 liosama wrote:Show nested quote +The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't tech to academy early enough," the police chief said.
LMFAO!!! XD
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God is dead - Friedrich Nietzsche
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On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant. disagree Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.
That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.
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God, why does every TL.net thread digress into a pseudo-philosophical argument?
On the other hand, pity that the girl died.
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On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:45 Hawk wrote:
Uh-oh, better watch out! The inner elitist in WIP is coming out! You can't compete with MIT!
Haha, but isn't it ridiculous how some random kid demands that you should have read his posts? I mean, I'm having quite the busy time with other people who are exchanging with me... Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:46 ._. wrote:On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too. Such as? (1) Persecution of those with faith in China. Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves. (2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though. (3) Assyrian Genocide Again, no atheists involved. (4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case. (5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire. Nero was an atheist? You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist? It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer? Are you kidding me. Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition? My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not? No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts? Prove to me that your not some stubborn Christian with a terrible and misinterpreted definition of Atheism? Why not read my posts before you continue on with your ignorance? Why not listen to criticism of others every so often? Even if I am unknown, why not take the effort into opening your mind? Wait, why should I prove anything to you? I'm certainly not ignorant. And as you can see, I have been criticizing both sides of the playing field, atheists and Christians alike. So, the fact that you're bitching at my "ignorance" and failure to read your posts makes me LESS motivated to skim through several pages of forum just to find them.
"why should I do this for you?" Why should I do this because your bitching about your own ignorance?"
Ego much? You assumed I didn't read about your tidbit that Christianity can be retarded, but then again, why would I respond to you if I did not read your posts? So its a matter of presentation and not a matter of factuality? Should I get myself a suit and tie, get a tophat, grab out Richard Dawkins by the ears out from the hat? Should I have written my sentences and cited sources in MLA format, should I have left out offensive vulgar words and replaced them with sensible mannerisms?
By the way, I'm smiling as I wrote those words, I ain't bitching or getting a constipation, just slightly entertained.
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On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant. disagree Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.
...
All four of your reasons for atheism motivated crime were incorrect..
Yes, you are ignorant..
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On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant. disagree Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant. That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.
You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.
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People like this piss me of so much. If I was that 16 year old I be getting the hell out there as soon as possible. Jesus fucking Christ.
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On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them. Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard. On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody Yeah I guess you're right. His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions. Wow, I hope not. If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil. If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done. Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved. So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better. If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean. I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical. Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally." Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe? Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid? Think of what you're saying. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally." would translate to "Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea" If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity? If you didn't realize already I am not a blind follower of faith. In fact I'm not a Christian, but I'm Jewish. Although not a practicing one , because I believe the whole idea of a God is although very explaining and comforting still a far fetched story. Not saying there isn't one though, so that would make me agnostic I guess. So that argument was no where near sarcastic. But thanks for not being able to read properly and then calling me an idiot for your own mistake. Happens more often though. No hard feelings.Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to. But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will". If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings. Omg, this is seriously messed up. There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die. Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote. Dimwit. Listen closely. Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity. Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
Nobody is born with a sense of morality. Society or environment instills morality in a person. I highly doubt anyone is born with a sense of good and right. The morality of a person today is the product of a life long shaping process. If I were to be raised among Muslims from day one who commonly believe it is good to kill men who are physically attracted to other men then this I would believe. If I were to be raised in a family of atheist and only know and interact with other atheist who all share the idea that you should rape muslims for some reason, then this I would feel is right as well. Weird as it may seem, but you are the product of the interaction with your environment.
I don't think you can disagree with me that you are born carteblanche. So choosing to back up morality with Christianity is absolutely ridiculous. If anything religion brings along values from whereon you choose to follow them. You don't pick the religion merely to back up the morality you were born with. This is absurd.
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On March 27 2008 07:06 {ToT}Strafe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them. Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard. On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody Yeah I guess you're right. His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions. Wow, I hope not. If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil. If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done. Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved. So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better. If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean. I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical. Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally." Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe? Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid? Think of what you're saying. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally." would translate to "Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea" If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity? On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to. But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will". If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings. Omg, this is seriously messed up. There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die. Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote. Dimwit. Listen closely. Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity. Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist. Nobody is born with a sense of morality. Society or environment instills morality in a person. I highly doubt anyone is born with a sense of good and right. The morality of a person today is the product of a life long shaping process. If I were to be raised among Muslims from day one who commonly believe it is good to kill men who are physically attracted to other men then this I would believe. If I were to be raised in a family of atheist and only know and interact with other atheist who all share the idea that you should rape muslims for some reason, then this I would feel is right as well. Weird as it may seem, but you are the product of the interaction with your environment. I don't think you can disagree with me that you are born carteblanche. So choosing to back up morality with Christianity is absolutely ridiculous. If anything religion brings along values from whereon you choose to follow them. You don't pick the religion merely to back up the morality you were born with. This is absurd.
When you kill that man, you will hear him screaming. When you draw blood, you will clearly see that you are causing him pain. And, you would want others to treat you well too, right? You wouldn't want people coming around and stabbing you for no reason.
Therefore, it's like a series of logic.
(A) You are told that killing is good.
(B) You don't like being in pain.
(C) You see that you are causing pain to others when you are about to kill them.
(D) You don't want that kind of treatment on yourself.
(E) You realize that killing others is not such a good thing.
We judge actions based on how we ourselves would like to be treated.
"What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." (Epictetus)
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On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant. You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist? It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.
True, but it does not follow that all atheists are antireligion.
This is like saying that all believers in God are probably Christian.
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On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant. disagree Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant. That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant. You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist? It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.
You're not doing yourself any favors here. I had thought that you were merely ignorant. I am now certain that you are stupid.
An atheist is not necessarily an antireligionist just as a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Got that? Christians, on the other hand, believe in some sort of god by definition.
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On March 27 2008 07:13 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant. disagree Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant. That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant. You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist? It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God. You're not doing yourself any favors here. I had thought that you were merely ignorant. I am now certain that you are stupid. An atheist is not necessarily an antireligionist just as a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Got that? Christians, on the other hand, believe in some sort of god by definition.
Actually, Christians believe in God. Not some sort of god.
On March 27 2008 07:11 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant. You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist? It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God. True, but it does not follow that all atheists are antireligion. This is like saying that all believers in God are probably Christian.
Exactly, which is the point I was getting at.
So, when Christians committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was a somewhat religious cause.
When Muslims committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was for a somewhat religious cause.
When antireligious people committed murders, they weren't speaking for all atheists, but it was for a somewhat atheistic cause.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
Religion is a dangerous thing when combined with fucking lunatics.
If these people aren't put in jail it will be pretty screwed up.
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On March 27 2008 07:21 Snet wrote:
Religion is a dangerous thing when combined with fucking lunatics.
If these people aren't put in jail it will be pretty screwed up.
Yep, very true. Evidence of the many historical wars and homicides.
Actually, lunatics in general are dangerous combined with anything.
But, I don't think they will be put into jail. They didn't do anything wrong. They just didn't do anything right.
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On March 27 2008 07:10 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 07:06 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them. Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard. On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody Yeah I guess you're right. His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions. Wow, I hope not. If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil. If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done. Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved. So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better. If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean. I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical. Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally." Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe? Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid? Think of what you're saying. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally." would translate to "Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea" If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity? On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to. But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will". If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings. Omg, this is seriously messed up. There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die. Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote. Dimwit. Listen closely. Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity. Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist. Nobody is born with a sense of morality. Society or environment instills morality in a person. I highly doubt anyone is born with a sense of good and right. The morality of a person today is the product of a life long shaping process. If I were to be raised among Muslims from day one who commonly believe it is good to kill men who are physically attracted to other men then this I would believe. If I were to be raised in a family of atheist and only know and interact with other atheist who all share the idea that you should rape muslims for some reason, then this I would feel is right as well. Weird as it may seem, but you are the product of the interaction with your environment. I don't think you can disagree with me that you are born carteblanche. So choosing to back up morality with Christianity is absolutely ridiculous. If anything religion brings along values from whereon you choose to follow them. You don't pick the religion merely to back up the morality you were born with. This is absurd. When you kill that man, you will hear him screaming. When you draw blood, you will clearly see that you are causing him pain. And, you would want others to treat you well too, right? You wouldn't want people coming around and stabbing you for no reason. Therefore, it's like a series of logic. (A) You are told that killing is good. (B) You don't like being in pain. (C) You see that you are causing pain to others when you are about to kill them. (D) You don't want that kind of treatment on yourself. (E) You realize that killing others is not such a good thing. We judge actions based on how we ourselves would like to be treated. "What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." (Epictetus)
Very untrue. Among all societies which have been studied by anthropologists or ethnographers there were only few universal values. Murder is universally considered wrong. However about almost anything else peoples have different values at times. The reason murder is seen as wrong, is almost certainly because no society could function when people murder each other. So practically in this world it leaves no room for any society not to condemn murder. But since I have talk in a more simplistic way to you and apparently I have to explain every single thing to you I must add that the things I said were hypothetical.
So now, you are raised among savages who are a tight group of people consisting of maybe 5 nuclear families all with mother father and maybe three or four children. Now these people only eat flesh of humans. All their lives as they know it they raid villages and eat the flesh of the ones they kill. This seems absurd, but these people would certainly not share your value that killing other people would be wrong. And because you will reply to this saying it is not possible. Indeed it is not that's why its hypothetical and far fetched, but the point is to illustrate another point. Confusing I know.
Ask any man in Holland with two dutch parents who were socially active during the 70's and 80's how he feels about homosexuality and he will give you a typical tolerant answer, that they are just like you and me. Ask any man who was raised in Iran with parents active during the Revolution led by Khomeini and he will tell you that homosexuals deserve to die. This illustrates that values are instilled in a person by society.
I really don't get how you can think you are born with morals. That sounds so ignorant to me. Yes I choose ignorant, because I know you don't mind to be called a lot of things, but ignorant you are.
One of the most influential writers in early modern Europe Thomas Hobbes believed when there was no order all men would be savages and only be led by one thing namely self interest. The result would be murder,pillage and a whole lot of other gruesome things. Therefore he believed absolutism should be with the king in order to create order. And with order a livable society. Hobbes influence stretches far beyond the crappy fag you quoted. 
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On March 27 2008 07:23 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 07:21 Snet wrote:
Religion is a dangerous thing when combined with fucking lunatics.
If these people aren't put in jail it will be pretty screwed up. Yep, very true. Evidence of the many historical wars and homicides. Actually, lunatics in general are dangerous combined with anything. But, I don't think they will be put into jail. They didn't do anything wrong. They just didn't do anything right.
If you believe letting your daughter die willfully isn't anything wrong then I wouldn't mind you being locked up with them.
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EPT
