• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:16
CEST 13:16
KST 20:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202519Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder2EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced35BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update Serral wins EWC 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Which platform caters to men's fashion needs? Help: rep cant save Shield Battery Server New Patch [G] Progamer Settings
Tourneys
[BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Flash @ Namkraft Laddernet …
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 625 users

God makes people doctors for a reason, right?

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Normal
Gaetele
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Esper760 Posts
March 26 2008 18:31 GMT
#1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html

Summary: Girl, 11 years old, dies because her parents pray for healing instead of taking her to a doctor.
aka Ghostclaws
statix
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States1760 Posts
March 26 2008 18:36 GMT
#2
thats horrible
SCC-Caliban
PissedOffEmo
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada777 Posts
March 26 2008 18:38 GMT
#3
we should blame china
Shit happens and then you die
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
March 26 2008 18:38 GMT
#4
There it is.

There is no God.
vGl-CoW
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Belgium8305 Posts
March 26 2008 18:40 GMT
#5
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody
Moderatorfollow me on twitter if u think ur so tough @BooyaCow
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10541 Posts
March 26 2008 18:42 GMT
#6
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]
Im back, in pog form!
imDerek
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1944 Posts
March 26 2008 18:42 GMT
#7
poor girl
Least favorite progamers: Leta, Zero, Mind, Shine, free, really <-- newly added
Gaetele
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Esper760 Posts
March 26 2008 18:42 GMT
#8
This actually reminds me of a joke:

There was a major flood warning in the Parson's district, and his parishoners were quickly evacuating from the area. The parson stood pat. His parishoners noticed this and question him, "Reverend, aren't you leaving? A big flood is coming!" "No!" insisted the Parson. "God will deliver me!"

So, along come the rains, the water rises and floods the Parson's basement and first floor. He moves to his second floor and watches the storm rage, the waters rise from his bedroom window.

Along chugs a motorboat with rescuers. "Get in!" they exclaim. "C'mon, we got you!" "NO!" insisted the Parson. "God will deliver me!"

The waters rise more, and the Parson takes to his attic, then his roof while the storm rages and the waters rise. Up above him hovers a helicopter, lowering a rope and harness. "Go rescue another who needs it!" announced the Parson. "God will deliver me!" So, the helicopter flies off.

Soon thereafter, the waters rise further, and the Parson climbs his chimney while the waters rise to his waiste, his hosue completely submerged. Lo and behold a log bumps up to the chimney, but the Parson shoves it away and clutches his chimney, deep in prayer.

The Parson did not survive the storm; the waters rose above his chimney and the Parson drowns.

Standing before the Pearly Gates and greeted by his Lord, he looks to him with confusion and says, "Lord, I don't understand. I thought you promised you would deliver me from evil!"

Jesus shakes his head. "Parson," he said, "I sent you a warning, a motorboat, a helicopter and a log ... What more did you WANT?"
aka Ghostclaws
Polis
Profile Joined January 2005
Poland1292 Posts
March 26 2008 18:43 GMT
#9
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.
Duke
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1106 Posts
March 26 2008 18:43 GMT
#10
isn't this child abuse or neglect or something? -_-
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
March 26 2008 18:45 GMT
#11
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.


o.O
Enter a Uh
KaasZerg
Profile Joined November 2005
Netherlands927 Posts
March 26 2008 18:47 GMT
#12
Christian nuts make bad parents. This happened before and will happen again. Shrug.

This qualafies as neglect to me.

Poor girl, born in the wrong family.
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10541 Posts
March 26 2008 18:49 GMT
#13
On March 27 2008 03:43 DukE wrote:
isn't this child abuse or neglect or something? -_-


murder in the name of god has never been punished, more like praised
Im back, in pog form!
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
March 26 2008 18:49 GMT
#14
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
March 26 2008 18:53 GMT
#15
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
March 26 2008 18:53 GMT
#16
On March 27 2008 03:38 LaLuSh wrote:
There it is.

There is no God.


How can you say ? i mean when you judge death, something imensely controversy, only with the point of view of a guy living in this colossal prison we call earth, your sight is too limited to understand the nature of death.

Those fathers should have taken the kid to the doctor, maybe they are covering up for some kind of negligence

But if a sick kids death was enough to destroy the beliefs of every religion ....
Dont worry, they covered theyr asses by believing this is one of the sucky places where we spend most of our existance.

" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
MarklarMarklar
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Fiji1823 Posts
March 26 2008 18:55 GMT
#17
there is no god, what did they expect LOL!

sad world RIP GIRL with crazy parents
hello there
Gokey
Profile Joined November 2006
United States2722 Posts
March 26 2008 18:57 GMT
#18
religion is such a complicated subject... but i guess stupid people do stupid things regardless of the context
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
March 26 2008 18:57 GMT
#19
On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!


Yep, it's completely normal to gouge your own eye by shooting a scoped rifle.
I'll call Nada.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
March 26 2008 19:00 GMT
#20
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.

Too little faith is the least of those peoples problems
Enter a Uh
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
March 26 2008 19:13 GMT
#21
I actually think it's a reasonable philosophical position to refuse medical treatment for yourself or your children under all circumstances, just as it's a reasonable position to refuse to steal food rather than starve.

For most of the time humanity was around, about a quarter to a half of children died before reaching adulthood. Generally speaking, the ones who died were weaker than the ones who survived.

What happens to the genetics of a population when you go from filtering out the quarter or half weakest in every generation, to keeping 99+%?

After about five or ten generations, don't you end up with a population of people full of allergies, and attention disorders, and diabetes, and social dysfunction, and depression, and weak eyes needing glasses, and laziness, and stupidity, and fatness, and clumsiness, and other low-grade inferiorities?

What do the people look like after a hundred or a thousand generations?
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
March 26 2008 19:15 GMT
#22
On March 27 2008 03:57 lololol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!


Yep, it's completely normal to gouge your own eye by shooting a scoped rifle.

In the first place, she's obviously not shooting, just spotting.

In the second place, man... there is NOTHING wrong with THAT!
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
illmatic
Profile Joined January 2008
Canada53 Posts
March 26 2008 19:16 GMT
#23
What could a doctor do? Give her drugs...........
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
March 26 2008 19:19 GMT
#24
On March 27 2008 03:53 D10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:38 LaLuSh wrote:
There it is.

There is no God.


How can you say ? i mean when you judge death, something imensely controversy, only with the point of view of a guy living in this colossal prison we call earth, your sight is too limited to understand the nature of death.

Those fathers should have taken the kid to the doctor, maybe they are covering up for some kind of negligence

But if a sick kids death was enough to destroy the beliefs of every religion ....
Dont worry, they covered theyr asses by believing this is one of the sucky places where we spend most of our existance.



Not gonna make this into a long God vs. No God discussion. I have no problems with religion as long as it's not esoteric and seclusionary in the belief that MY religion is the ultimate road to salvation/whatever. For every religion claiming the aforementioned there stands a dim-witted homo sapiens turned prophet/saint/whatever grinning in the background, having achieved his or her goal in branching another one of these endless religions in another one of its endless branches/churches/whatever.

I'm aware the above means I must reject the majority of today's modern religions since they're all based on canonised staples of bullshit that throughout history has branched out into new piles of shit, as a never ending stream of homo sapiens wise men claim to have found the true interpretation of the "word"/whatever.

I'm actually okay with most buddhists and generally with people who believe in a personal God. They share a common trait you see; they mind their own business.

rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
March 26 2008 19:20 GMT
#25
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

So much for "eye relief."
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
March 26 2008 19:22 GMT
#26
I'm getting a lot of "eye relief" looking at that image.
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
Jyun
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States45 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 19:23:27
March 26 2008 19:22 GMT
#27
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 19:23 GMT
#28
So religion kills another one...wake up it's the year 2008.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 19:50:45
March 26 2008 19:50 GMT
#29
On March 27 2008 04:16 illmatic wrote:
What could a doctor do? Give her drugs...........


Hold on, are you serious?

MAYBE SAVE HER?
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 19:55 GMT
#30
The parents should be put in prison for this imo, same thing as if they would just have killed her.
Fumanchu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada669 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-12 19:38:57
March 26 2008 19:55 GMT
#31
Easy doesnt fit into grownup life.
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5094 Posts
March 26 2008 19:56 GMT
#32
owned

anyway this thread has awesome potential to turn into YET ANOTHER TEAMLIQUID RELIGION THREAD
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
March 26 2008 20:04 GMT
#33
GOD 1
GIRL 0
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
Polyphasic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States841 Posts
March 26 2008 20:07 GMT
#34
On March 27 2008 03:38 PissedOffEmo wrote:
we should blame china


I try to be tolerant, but comments like these piss me off to no end. I am a Chinese American living in the US, and where did you get that comment about China? Please do not say these things.
can't making a relationship last longer than 2 weeks, since 1984 :thumbs:
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 20:12:59
March 26 2008 20:11 GMT
#35
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
This is not the fault of God, nor the fault of the religion of Christianity. IMO this is more of the problem of not enough research. These parents should have read and studied the Bible in greater detail before coming to the decision that prayer was the only way to heal a child if you are Christian. The Bible does have countless stories of people who have been healed by prayer, but in most of these stories, you will find out that while these people were praying, they were doing everything physically possible to help the indivdual in need. A lot of Christians stand out in faith trying to declare their dedication and their love for Jesus, but unfortunately most of these people are not equipped with the knowledge to back up their declarementions.

As for why God did not save this girl, I can't say. I don't think we will ever know why God puts diseases in countries or allows for floods and hurricanes to destroy cities and wreck lives. However, I have personally seen the works of God firsthand and know that he is real and active in the world today. I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke. And what kind of a God would he be if everytime we asked for something he gave it to us? That's not a God, that's a genie. Although this girl's death is tragic and could have been avoided, we cannot comprehend the ripple effect that it will have on people. Quite possibly this death could lead to something far greater than we can forsee. God moves in mysterious ways, and although trusting Him even after something like this is difficult, it's never the wrong choice.


You have seen someone's chopped off arm grow back in front of your face..? I'm sorry, but I think that makes this entire post completely useless.

And also, that's complete bullshit. It's funny how when God performs miracles and amazing tasks, there never happens to be any evidence of it whatsoever.
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Hippopotamus
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
1914 Posts
March 26 2008 20:14 GMT
#36
I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke.


Win!
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
March 26 2008 20:15 GMT
#37
On March 27 2008 04:55 NotSupporting wrote:
The parents should be put in prison for this imo, same thing as if they would just have killed her.

Almost worse since they let her suffer for a prolonged time before she died. Thats like even more cold blooded evil than just killing her. Not that things like that really could be compared.
Cant really find words for this, just makes me sick.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
March 26 2008 20:19 GMT
#38
The parents should have taken the girl to a doctor even if they had believed God will save her. By their prayers, they are asking God for help, not miracles. God will help them if they will try to help themselves or in this case the girl.

Its like jumping in a fire and saying "God will save me because i have faith".

It is the parents to blame for believing God will help them if they refuse to try to help themselves.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
March 26 2008 20:20 GMT
#39
lol..
yeah God created doctors for a reason, you are right.
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
March 26 2008 20:21 GMT
#40
This could've been treated so easily too ><
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 20:23 GMT
#41
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 20:30:54
March 26 2008 20:30 GMT
#42
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
k0ziol
Profile Joined June 2007
Poland75 Posts
March 26 2008 20:34 GMT
#43
there was an southpark episode about this.. or atleast it was similar
kidd
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States2848 Posts
March 26 2008 20:38 GMT
#44
Obviously Religion has its issues, but even an intelligent althiest can agree that it also has its positives. This story is no reason for someone to start bashing on Christianity (or any other religion) just because there were some idiots that made a very bad decision. Like all stories there is two sides to everything.
Hi
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 20:47:24
March 26 2008 20:39 GMT
#45
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.
0z
Profile Joined August 2006
Luxembourg877 Posts
March 26 2008 20:42 GMT
#46
On March 27 2008 05:20 OneOther wrote:
lol..
yeah God created doctors for a reason, you are right.

yeah, credit to the op for the title
ieatkids5
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States4628 Posts
March 26 2008 20:45 GMT
#47
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke.

um what?
Koldblooded
Profile Joined July 2006
United States661 Posts
March 26 2008 20:45 GMT
#48
Those parents are complete dumbasses.
By.Flash fighting
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 20:48:56
March 26 2008 20:47 GMT
#49
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


I feel this is a common mistake people make. Religion does not kill. People do. The ones claim to do it for religion are the same atheïsts that kill for a thrill. They just claim to do it for God, which is obviously a false pretense. 'For God' is a reason often abused by people that do wrong to make it seem justified in hindsight. But then religion is never really the cause to begin with, the cause is much more something other than religion.

It would be different when we all believed in a religion that has clear rules that leave only one possibility for interpretation and that says abduct, rape and murder are values which we should hold in high regard. This is however not the case. The Bible in it's current form and the way it's being read in the Western-World by individuals is much more often a religion that preaches pacifism rather than killing.

And even if on occasion solely religion is to be blamed for a wrongful act then I am not sure how this outweighs the void in norms and morals atheism would leave in our lives and that could function as a feeding ground for fanatic lunatics out for a thrill or raping a little innocent girl. If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 20:50 GMT
#50
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 20:51 GMT
#51
On March 27 2008 05:38 kidd wrote:
Obviously Religion has its issues, but even an intelligent althiest can agree that it also has its positives.


The positives could be achieved without the negatives.

This story is no reason for someone to start bashing on Christianity (or any other religion) just because there were some idiots that made a very bad decision. Like all stories there is two sides to everything.


This story is a perfect reason for people to express their dislike of those who believe what those people do. I'm looking at you, Christian Scientists.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
March 26 2008 20:52 GMT
#52
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
This is not the fault of God, nor the fault of the religion of Christianity. IMO this is more of the problem of not enough research. These parents should have read and studied the Bible in greater detail before coming to the decision that prayer was the only way to heal a child if you are Christian. The Bible does have countless stories of people who have been healed by prayer, but in most of these stories, you will find out that while these people were praying, they were doing everything physically possible to help the indivdual in need. A lot of Christians stand out in faith trying to declare their dedication and their love for Jesus, but unfortunately most of these people are not equipped with the knowledge to back up their declarementions.

As for why God did not save this girl, I can't say. I don't think we will ever know why God puts diseases in countries or allows for floods and hurricanes to destroy cities and wreck lives. However, I have personally seen the works of God firsthand and know that he is real and active in the world today. I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke. And what kind of a God would he be if everytime we asked for something he gave it to us? That's not a God, that's a genie. Although this girl's death is tragic and could have been avoided, we cannot comprehend the ripple effect that it will have on people. Quite possibly this death could lead to something far greater than we can forsee. God moves in mysterious ways, and although trusting Him even after something like this is difficult, it's never the wrong choice.

wow what a sad post. Did you ever consider that diseases, floods and hurricanes are natural phenomena? Occasionally these things destroy cities and kill innocent children. It's not their fault and it just happens.

And then you dare suggest that it might actually be a good thing for them that their daughter died...that's fucked up beyond words
Enter a Uh
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
March 26 2008 20:52 GMT
#53
On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!


maybe this girl has sick left arm strength
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 20:53 GMT
#54
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".

Oh boy.

Antisemitism can be considered atheism, since it is the polar opposite of Jewish religion: hatred of Jewish religion.

I believe antisemitism caused 60 million deaths....
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 20:54 GMT
#55
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Unlike you, apparently, I don't need the threat of eternal damnation to keep me from murdering.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 20:58:38
March 26 2008 20:54 GMT
#56
On March 27 2008 05:53 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".

Oh boy.

Antisemitism can be considered atheism, since it is the polar opposite of Jewish religion: hatred of Jewish religion.

I believe antisemitism caused 60 million deaths....


Hitler believed in God. And NO, you are WRONG. Many anti-Semites have religions...

Just not Jewish obviously.

Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 20:54 GMT
#57
On March 27 2008 05:53 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".

Oh boy.

Antisemitism can be considered atheism, since it is the polar opposite of Jewish religion: hatred of Jewish religion.

I believe antisemitism caused 60 million deaths....


No.


That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 20:55:43
March 26 2008 20:55 GMT
#58
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke.


lil too much DBZ!

[image loading]


"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."

Throw that douchebag of a cop in the jail with them, wtf
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 20:57 GMT
#59
On March 27 2008 05:53 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".

Oh boy.

Antisemitism can be considered atheism, since it is the polar opposite of Jewish religion: hatred of Jewish religion.

I believe antisemitism caused 60 million deaths....


Antisemitism was never the cause for WW2 the Jews that lost their lifes during the war were merely a victim on the side. And I can tell you that most of those 60 million weren't Jews but anti-antisemitic Russians fighting Nazi Germans.
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
March 26 2008 20:57 GMT
#60
On March 27 2008 05:53 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".

Oh boy.

Antisemitism can be considered atheism, since it is the polar opposite of Jewish religion: hatred of Jewish religion.

I believe antisemitism caused 60 million deaths....


lol.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 20:58 GMT
#61
On March 27 2008 05:54 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Unlike you, apparently, I don't need the threat of eternal damnation to keep me from murdering.


Nor do I, but can you speak for billy bob chewing tobacco in his pickup truck while watching the girls leave junior high in their uniform?
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 21:00 GMT
#62
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
March 26 2008 21:01 GMT
#63
I have a couple things to add; first, this death cannot be attributed to god. This was the parents fault for being such idiots. Second, this does not make them evil. They wanted to do the right thing, their stupidity isn't their fault.

Also, please stop using this as an excuse to rail hate on the Christians. Yes, bad things have been done in gods name, but so have some good things. Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too. That doesn't make it wrong, it makes the individual wrong. Basically, {ToT}Strafe is right, don't judge the many by the actions of a few.

The last thing I have to say is that this guy is full of crap:

On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 21:01 GMT
#64
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 21:01 GMT
#65
On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.


No, therefore you SHOULD criticize it.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 21:03 GMT
#66
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
March 26 2008 21:04 GMT
#67
On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.


"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

would translate to

"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"
Enter a Uh
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:09:11
March 26 2008 21:06 GMT
#68
On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.


"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

would translate to

"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"

If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity?

On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 21:07 GMT
#69
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 21:11 GMT
#70
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:21:23
March 26 2008 21:13 GMT
#71
On March 27 2008 06:11 NotSupporting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".

Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.

Christians believe that God instills a sense of morality in every person. The "knowledge of good and evil." So, even in the eyes of Christians, you don't have to believe in God to have that moral compass.

On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) Assyrian Genocide
(3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
._.
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
1133 Posts
March 26 2008 21:19 GMT
#72
Anti-semitism as atheistic? Have you heard of Christians fucking with the Jews for a few hundred years, especially the church? Don't you ever hear the argument from those nutcases, "Jews killed Jesus! THEY HAVE BETRAYED OUR SAVIOR". Are you sure you know what an atheist is?

There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists — atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called "weak" or "implicit" atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.

There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called "strong" or "explicit" atheism.
With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point. Some atheists do this and others may do this with regards to certain specific gods but not with others. Thus, a person may lack belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god.


But lest we forget, the greatest social developments in this country have been from secular reasoning and not religious. From democracy, to universal civil rights, it has been thanks to rationale and the work of the enlightenment, and not the mighty hand of God. I mean jeez, the south used to be Democratic up until the civil rights movement came along, and they've all been Republican since. Racist much?


But I see religion like a drug, too much of it, it'll cause hallucinations, irrational thinking, disturbing fantasies, and insensible behavior.But, Christianity in moderation is fine, its ok if you see everything with moderation, with metaphors and not into 100% context. Even though God may not exist, if it gives people security and a false sense of happiness in a bubble. Ignorance is a bliss ain't it?

By the way, I think using religion synonymous with evil is silly. It is true that religion has been used for many "evil" things, but religion is a reflection of human character and our ability to manipulate others, one way or another. Religion is a byproduct of one of our social developments, and even without it, we would still act accordingly the same, with another bullshit reason to kill someone. Ex: Man finds out wife is cheating on him. Is he gonna be like, "WOMAN HOW DARE YOU DEFILE THE HOLY SANCTITY OF OUR MARRIAGE IN THE EYES OF OUR ALMIGHTY LORD?" Nono, he's gonna be like, "Fuck you bitch, why you be cheating on me?" and promptly shoot her up with a .45.
:D
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:23:04
March 26 2008 21:20 GMT
#73
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:11 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".

Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre
(3) Assyrian Genocide
(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.



This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil off and live a free life? This is same with every religion (as I know).
SpiralArchitect
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2116 Posts
March 26 2008 21:21 GMT
#74
THis just proves that religion has always messed with peoples heads and always will. That doesnt make it right or wrong, its just thew way it is and it always will be. War, pestilence, famine, and a whole bunch of other shit can either be solved or explained by praying to some people.

Unfortunately this little girl had to be the thing that taught her parents that science and religion can co-exist.
TeamLiquids #1 illiterate writer, writin dem wordz is de hardz.
._.
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
1133 Posts
March 26 2008 21:22 GMT
#75
I find it fucking stupid when people clump up atheism as a singular "belief system."

Or when they claim, atheism has killed people, in its name.

:D
MoNKeYSpanKeR
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2869 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:26:00
March 26 2008 21:22 GMT
#76
On March 27 2008 04:56 pyrogenetix wrote:
owned

anyway this thread has awesome potential to turn into YET ANOTHER TEAMLIQUID RELIGION THREAD

Potential? It already has
<3's Mani and Seraphim, thx for the second chance. TSL Name: TSL-mSLeGenD
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 21:24 GMT
#77
On March 27 2008 06:20 NotSupporting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:11 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".

Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.

On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre
(3) Assyrian Genocide
(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.



This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil and live a free life?

Haven't you heard the countless stories of kids who ran away from home?
It's not like kids haven't tried to live a free life. Many have succeeded.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:30:37
March 26 2008 21:26 GMT
#78
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:


Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) Assyrian Genocide
(3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


(1) This is done is the name of COMMUNISM. Not Atheism. The Chinese government simply will not tolerate the fact their citizens believe in a higher power than themselves.

(2) Extremely questionable.

(3) Again, political motivation, not religious.

(4) I'm not familiar of this, I will research though.

EDIT: Researched #4. Nero was JEWISH. This is a false claim.
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
._.
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
1133 Posts
March 26 2008 21:29 GMT
#79
On March 27 2008 06:24 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:20 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:11 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".

Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.

On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre
(3) Assyrian Genocide
(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.



This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil and live a free life?

Haven't you heard the countless stories of kids who ran away from home?
It's not like kids haven't tried to live a free life. Many have succeeded.

Myth:
How many people in Communist Russia and China have been killed because of atheism and secularism?

None, probably.

How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic, right? So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — indeed, in the name of atheism and secularism?

No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons.
Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism.

But weren't a lot of people killed because they were Christian? Certainly — but not simply because they were Christian. Communists typically regarded religious organizations as a hinderance towards the creation of a worker's paradise. Some religious groups also opposed the communists. Once again, we are generally looking at political issues, not a question of atheism.

Even if some people were killed simply because they followed a religion, it does not follow that they were killed in the name of atheism. Why? Because atheism is not inherently opposed to religion: it is possible to be both an atheist and religious and some religions are themselves atheistic. Atheism also isn't a belief system or ideology which can, by itself, inspire people to do things — good or bad.

To understand this better, consider times in the past when religion has been involved with violence — the Inquisition would be good. How many people were killed during the Inquisition in the name of theism? None. Those doing the killing acted not because of theism, but rather because of Christian doctrines. The belief system is what inspired people to act (sometimes for good, sometimes for ill). The single belief of theism, however, did not.

Similarly, communism certainly inspired people to act and gave them motivations to do certain things, but atheism — which is the absence of a belief and not even a belief itself — did not. The assumption that people in Russia and China were killed merely on account of atheism is based upon two other myths: first, that atheism is itself some sort of philosophy or belief system which can motivate people, and second that atheism is somehow interchangeable with the actual belief system of communism. It also pretends that all the various elements of communist totalitarianism were irrelevant to what happened — which is utter nonsense.

The aforementioned parallel explains why this response is not one which religious theists can use to deny their religion's responsibility for violence in the past. Atheism and theism may not themselves be sufficient to justify violence and murder (or good behavior, for that matter), but belief systems which incorporate them are more than sufficient. Communism (or at least certain forms of it) can be blamed for communist violence; Christianity (or at least certain forms of it) can also be blamed for Christian violence. As a belief system with specific doctrines that were openly held up as justifying or sanctioning violence, religion must be held responsible for the violence committed in its name.

Whether theism can be slightly more culpable than atheism is a matter of dispute. Not being any belief at all, atheism can't motivate anyone in any direction to do anything. Theism is a belief, however, so at least the potential for some sort of motivation in some direction exists. It's been argued, for example, that monotheism is inherently more prone to violence because of the way it tends to be exclusivist — unlike polytheism, which tends to be more tolerant of cultural and religious differences.

It's difficult to say, though, how many of these problems are really inherent in the type of theism and how many are cultural products of the religious belief systems that incorporate them. Whatever culpability theism itself might have, it's likely small enough to dismiss, allowing us to treat it and atheism as functionally equal in this context.
:D
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 21:29 GMT
#80
On March 27 2008 06:24 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:20 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:11 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".

Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.

On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre
(3) Assyrian Genocide
(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.



This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil and live a free life?

Haven't you heard the countless stories of kids who ran away from home?
It's not like kids haven't tried to live a free life. Many have succeeded.


And you think that is absolutely normal? A kid has to run away from home because of "religion"?
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:31:43
March 26 2008 21:29 GMT
#81
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Skittled
Profile Joined July 2007
United States160 Posts
March 26 2008 21:30 GMT
#82
im an atheist and my doctor cured me of many more sicknesses than those nuts ever will.

really, that just sums it up right about. there is no god. would god let such firm followers die like that? wouldnt god send a doctor over for some reason?
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 21:31 GMT
#83
On March 27 2008 06:26 Romance_us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:


On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) Assyrian Genocide
(3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


(1) This is done is the name of COMMUNISM. Not Atheism. The Chinese government simply will not tolerate the fact their citizens believe in a higher power than themselves.

(2) Extremely questionable.

(3) Again, political motivation, not religious.

(4) I'm not familiar of this, I will research though.

Wait, I thought atheism was the unbelief of religion. The anti-religion.

Isn't it pretty anti-religion for a government to be anti-religion? Haha. Communism fits the bill. If a government wants to banish religion, doesn't it mean that the government is atheist? It certainly cannot mean that the government holds any religious belief, of course....
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:39:14
March 26 2008 21:35 GMT
#84
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

Show nested quote +
(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

Show nested quote +
(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

Show nested quote +
(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

Show nested quote +
(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How much clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Given: Atheist does not believe in any form of God or supernatural.
Prompt: If believers of God/supernatural are being killed, then what is the faith of the killers?
(A) Opposing religious believers (other churches/beliefs)
(B) Non believers. (AKA Atheists)
liosama
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Australia843 Posts
March 26 2008 21:36 GMT
#85

The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't tech to academy early enough," the police chief said.


Free Palestine
MTF
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States1739 Posts
March 26 2008 21:36 GMT
#86
On March 27 2008 06:31 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Wait, I thought atheism was the unbelief of religion. The anti-religion.

Isn't it pretty anti-religion for a government to be anti-religion? Haha. Communism fits the bill. If a government wants to banish religion, doesn't it mean that the government is atheist? It certainly cannot mean that the government holds any religious belief, of course....


You're trying to attribute the banishment of religion (not to mention through active violence) to atheism, though. Whether or not a government is atheist or not does not dictate whether they are trying to abolish religion.

It follows logic, of course, that such a government would have to be atheistic; implying that all atheist governments must attempt to abolish religion is, however, extremely ridiculous.
Think. :)
ClockworkBlues
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada74 Posts
March 26 2008 21:36 GMT
#87
The amount of Christianity-hating that goes on in these threads is getting somewhat ridiculous. People who only post to make remarks like "There is no god. Haha!" What's the point? You are not adding anything constructive, in fact your posts are just taking up space. Same goes for posts like "I believe in God, and he works in mysterious ways!" This usually has nothing to do with the topic being discussed at hand other then the fact that you are a Christian.

...Anywho, It's unfair to judge millions of people by the actions of two parents who obviously have some kind of delusional complex.
._.
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
1133 Posts
March 26 2008 21:38 GMT
#88
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?
:D
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
March 26 2008 21:39 GMT
#89
My money is on this being closed by hmm...... page 7!
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 21:39 GMT
#90
On March 27 2008 06:31 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:26 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:


On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) Assyrian Genocide
(3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


(1) This is done is the name of COMMUNISM. Not Atheism. The Chinese government simply will not tolerate the fact their citizens believe in a higher power than themselves.

(2) Extremely questionable.

(3) Again, political motivation, not religious.

(4) I'm not familiar of this, I will research though.

Wait, I thought atheism was the unbelief of religion. The anti-religion.

Isn't it pretty anti-religion for a government to be anti-religion? Haha. Communism fits the bill. If a government wants to banish religion, doesn't it mean that the government is atheist? It certainly cannot mean that the government holds any religious belief, of course....


a- 1 or an-
pref. Without; not

the·ism
–noun
1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism).

Atheism is not the same thing as antireligion. Indeed, some religions, like Theravada Buddhism, are atheistic.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
OctoPuSs
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Canada5279 Posts
March 26 2008 21:40 GMT
#91
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

It's not like people haven't killed others for praying to a different invisible man than their own. Remove your blinders.
Depression is just a sarcastic state of mind. Liquid`HerO Fighting!
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 21:41 GMT
#92
On March 27 2008 06:36 ClockworkBlues wrote:
...Anywho, It's unfair to judge millions of people by the actions of two parents who obviously have some kind of delusional complex.


We are not.
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 21:41 GMT
#93
On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?

No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts?
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 21:41 GMT
#94
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How much clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Given: Atheist does not believe in any form of God or supernatural.
Prompt: If believers of God/supernatural are being killed, then what is the faith of the killers?
(A) Opposing religious believers (other churches/beliefs)
(B) Non believers. (AKA Atheists)


1. Three of the events you posted involved no atheists at all.

2. That atheists have done bad things has never been contested. That people have done bad things in the name of atheism has. There is a difference.


That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
March 26 2008 21:45 GMT
#95
On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?

No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts?


Uh-oh, better watch out! The inner elitist in WIP is coming out! You can't compete with MIT!
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 21:45 GMT
#96
On March 27 2008 06:41 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How much clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Given: Atheist does not believe in any form of God or supernatural.
Prompt: If believers of God/supernatural are being killed, then what is the faith of the killers?
(A) Opposing religious believers (other churches/beliefs)
(B) Non believers. (AKA Atheists)


1. Three of the events you posted involved no atheists at all.

2. That atheists have done bad things has never been contested. That people have done bad things in the name of atheism has. There is a difference.



Ah, okay. You win then.

Yes, many deaths have been caused by Christians and in the name of Christianity.
Yes, many deaths have been caused by Atheists, but not necessarily in the name of Atheism.

Okay, I can live with that.
._.
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
1133 Posts
March 26 2008 21:46 GMT
#97
On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?

No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts?

Prove to me that your not some stubborn Christian with a terrible and misinterpreted definition of Atheism?

Why not read my posts before you continue on with your ignorance? Why not listen to criticism of others every so often? Even if I am unknown, why not take the effort into opening your mind?
:D
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
March 26 2008 21:47 GMT
#98
The whole idea of comparing crimes comitted by religious vs atheist is not really helpful.
Religion has specific dogmas which in some cases can be reasons for atrocities.
Nothing can really be done in the name of atheism since atheism describes the lack of belief in a specific dogma and nothing else.

This doesn't mean all atheists are good people, since they can hold other dogmatic values, like those of nazism, communism, racism, antisemitism etc, but religious people might hold these values too.

It's like comparing crimes done by racists with those committed by non-racists, it makes no sense.
Enter a Uh
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:50:57
March 26 2008 21:50 GMT
#99
On March 27 2008 06:45 Hawk wrote:
Uh-oh, better watch out! The inner elitist in WIP is coming out! You can't compete with MIT!

Haha, but isn't it ridiculous how some random kid demands that you should have read his posts? I mean, I'm having quite the busy time with other people who are exchanging with me...

On March 27 2008 06:46 ._. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?

No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts?

Prove to me that your not some stubborn Christian with a terrible and misinterpreted definition of Atheism?

Why not read my posts before you continue on with your ignorance? Why not listen to criticism of others every so often? Even if I am unknown, why not take the effort into opening your mind?

Wait, why should I prove anything to you? I'm certainly not ignorant. And as you can see, I have been criticizing both sides of the playing field, atheists and Christians alike. So, the fact that you're bitching at my "ignorance" and failure to read your posts makes me LESS motivated to skim through several pages of forum just to find them.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 21:51 GMT
#100
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
March 26 2008 21:53 GMT
#101
.
.
.
.
--------------------------------
NOW there we went offtopic, gg no re.
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 21:54 GMT
#102
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
March 26 2008 21:54 GMT
#103
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:45 Hawk wrote:
Uh-oh, better watch out! The inner elitist in WIP is coming out! You can't compete with MIT!

Haha, but isn't it ridiculous how some random kid demands that you should have read his posts? I mean, I'm having quite the busy time with other people who are exchanging with me...

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:46 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?

No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts?

Prove to me that your not some stubborn Christian with a terrible and misinterpreted definition of Atheism?

Why not read my posts before you continue on with your ignorance? Why not listen to criticism of others every so often? Even if I am unknown, why not take the effort into opening your mind?

Wait, why should I prove anything to you? I'm certainly not ignorant. And as you can see, I have been criticizing both sides of the playing field, atheists and Christians alike. So, the fact that you're bitching at my "ignorance" and failure to read your posts makes me LESS motivated to skim through several pages of forum just to find them.


I guess your style of debating differs from mine. Generally, I don't give my arguement, then stick my fingers in my ears and go LA LALALALALALAL
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
March 26 2008 21:56 GMT
#104
On March 27 2008 06:36 liosama wrote:

Show nested quote +
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't tech to academy early enough," the police chief said.



LMFAO!!! XD
Scorpion
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States1974 Posts
March 26 2008 21:57 GMT
#105
God is dead - Friedrich Nietzsche
Mango @ U.S.East!
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 21:59:57
March 26 2008 21:59 GMT
#106
On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.


That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Proposal
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1310 Posts
March 26 2008 22:01 GMT
#107
God, why does every TL.net thread digress into a pseudo-philosophical argument?

On the other hand, pity that the girl died.
._.
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
1133 Posts
March 26 2008 22:01 GMT
#108
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:45 Hawk wrote:
Uh-oh, better watch out! The inner elitist in WIP is coming out! You can't compete with MIT!

Haha, but isn't it ridiculous how some random kid demands that you should have read his posts? I mean, I'm having quite the busy time with other people who are exchanging with me...

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:46 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:41 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:38 ._. wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:35 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:29 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.


Atheism wasn't the motivator. Many of those persecuted in China are Theravada Buddhists... most of whom are atheists themselves.

(2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre


Uh, that involved Catholics and Huguenots. Nice try though.

(3) Assyrian Genocide


Again, no atheists involved.

(4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union


Atheism wasn't the motivator there. Subordinance to the state was the motivator. If you look at how the USSR treated the various religious groups within its borders over its history, you'll find that to be the case.

(5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


Nero was an atheist?

You're trying to distinguish whether the persecutors have explicitly stated that they are atheist?

It was the persecution of religious belief. How clearer can it get? Isn't it strong evidence that the persecutor is an atheist, if he kills any religious believer?

Are you kidding me.
Have you not heard of the Spanish Inquisition?

My mind is numb, do you even read my well-intentioned posts or not?

No, who are you? And why should I have read your posts?

Prove to me that your not some stubborn Christian with a terrible and misinterpreted definition of Atheism?

Why not read my posts before you continue on with your ignorance? Why not listen to criticism of others every so often? Even if I am unknown, why not take the effort into opening your mind?

Wait, why should I prove anything to you? I'm certainly not ignorant. And as you can see, I have been criticizing both sides of the playing field, atheists and Christians alike. So, the fact that you're bitching at my "ignorance" and failure to read your posts makes me LESS motivated to skim through several pages of forum just to find them.


"why should I do this for you?" Why should I do this because your bitching about your own ignorance?"

Ego much? You assumed I didn't read about your tidbit that Christianity can be retarded, but then again, why would I respond to you if I did not read your posts? So its a matter of presentation and not a matter of factuality? Should I get myself a suit and tie, get a tophat, grab out Richard Dawkins by the ears out from the hat? Should I have written my sentences and cited sources in MLA format, should I have left out offensive vulgar words and replaced them with sensible mannerisms?

By the way, I'm smiling as I wrote those words, I ain't bitching or getting a constipation, just slightly entertained.
:D
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
March 26 2008 22:02 GMT
#109
On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.


...

All four of your reasons for atheism motivated crime were incorrect..

Yes, you are ignorant..
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 22:05 GMT
#110
On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.


That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.

You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 26 2008 22:06 GMT
#111
People like this piss me of so much. If I was that 16 year old I be getting the hell out there as soon as possible. Jesus fucking Christ.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 22:09:57
March 26 2008 22:06 GMT
#112
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.


"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

would translate to

"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"

If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity?

If you didn't realize already I am not a blind follower of faith. In fact I'm not a Christian, but I'm Jewish. Although not a practicing one , because I believe the whole idea of a God is although very explaining and comforting still a far fetched story. Not saying there isn't one though, so that would make me agnostic I guess. So that argument was no where near sarcastic. But thanks for not being able to read properly and then calling me an idiot for your own mistake. Happens more often though. No hard feelings.

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


Nobody is born with a sense of morality. Society or environment instills morality in a person. I highly doubt anyone is born with a sense of good and right. The morality of a person today is the product of a life long shaping process. If I were to be raised among Muslims from day one who commonly believe it is good to kill men who are physically attracted to other men then this I would believe. If I were to be raised in a family of atheist and only know and interact with other atheist who all share the idea that you should rape muslims for some reason, then this I would feel is right as well. Weird as it may seem, but you are the product of the interaction with your environment.

I don't think you can disagree with me that you are born carteblanche. So choosing to back up morality with Christianity is absolutely ridiculous. If anything religion brings along values from whereon you choose to follow them. You don't pick the religion merely to back up the morality you were born with. This is absurd.
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
March 26 2008 22:10 GMT
#113
On March 27 2008 07:06 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.


"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

would translate to

"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"

If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity?

On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


Nobody is born with a sense of morality. Society or environment instills morality in a person. I highly doubt anyone is born with a sense of good and right. The morality of a person today is the product of a life long shaping process. If I were to be raised among Muslims from day one who commonly believe it is good to kill men who are physically attracted to other men then this I would believe. If I were to be raised in a family of atheist and only know and interact with other atheist who all share the idea that you should rape muslims for some reason, then this I would feel is right as well. Weird as it may seem, but you are the product of the interaction with your environment.

I don't think you can disagree with me that you are born carteblanche. So choosing to back up morality with Christianity is absolutely ridiculous. If anything religion brings along values from whereon you choose to follow them. You don't pick the religion merely to back up the morality you were born with. This is absurd.

When you kill that man, you will hear him screaming. When you draw blood, you will clearly see that you are causing him pain. And, you would want others to treat you well too, right? You wouldn't want people coming around and stabbing you for no reason.

Therefore, it's like a series of logic.

(A) You are told that killing is good.
(B) You don't like being in pain.
(C) You see that you are causing pain to others when you are about to kill them.
(D) You don't want that kind of treatment on yourself.
(E) You realize that killing others is not such a good thing.

We judge actions based on how we ourselves would like to be treated.
"What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." (Epictetus)
MTF
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States1739 Posts
March 26 2008 22:11 GMT
#114
On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.


You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.


True, but it does not follow that all atheists are antireligion.

This is like saying that all believers in God are probably Christian.
Think. :)
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 22:13 GMT
#115
On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.


That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.

You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.


You're not doing yourself any favors here. I had thought that you were merely ignorant. I am now certain that you are stupid.

An atheist is not necessarily an antireligionist just as a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Got that? Christians, on the other hand, believe in some sort of god by definition.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 22:20:02
March 26 2008 22:16 GMT
#116
On March 27 2008 07:13 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.


That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.

You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.


You're not doing yourself any favors here. I had thought that you were merely ignorant. I am now certain that you are stupid.

An atheist is not necessarily an antireligionist just as a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Got that? Christians, on the other hand, believe in some sort of god by definition.

Actually, Christians believe in God. Not some sort of god.

On March 27 2008 07:11 MTF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.


You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.


True, but it does not follow that all atheists are antireligion.

This is like saying that all believers in God are probably Christian.

Exactly, which is the point I was getting at.

So, when Christians committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was a somewhat religious cause.
When Muslims committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was for a somewhat religious cause.

When antireligious people committed murders, they weren't speaking for all atheists, but it was for a somewhat atheistic cause.
Snet *
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States3573 Posts
March 26 2008 22:21 GMT
#117
Religion is a dangerous thing when combined with fucking lunatics.

If these people aren't put in jail it will be pretty screwed up.
WhatisProtoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Korea (South)2325 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 22:28:32
March 26 2008 22:23 GMT
#118
On March 27 2008 07:21 Snet wrote:
Religion is a dangerous thing when combined with fucking lunatics.

If these people aren't put in jail it will be pretty screwed up.

Yep, very true. Evidence of the many historical wars and homicides.

Actually, lunatics in general are dangerous combined with anything.

But, I don't think they will be put into jail. They didn't do anything wrong. They just didn't do anything right.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 22:31:14
March 26 2008 22:28 GMT
#119
On March 27 2008 07:10 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 07:06 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:06 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:04 jtan wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:00 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:50 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:39 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:43 Polis wrote:
No says God.

Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.

Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote:
this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody


Yeah I guess you're right.

His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.


Wow, I hope not.

If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.

If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.

Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.

So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."

While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.


If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.

I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.

Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?

Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?

Think of what you're saying.


"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."

would translate to

"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"

If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity?

On March 27 2008 06:03 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 NotSupporting wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:30 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.


But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".


If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.


Omg, this is seriously messed up.

There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.


Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.

Dimwit. Listen closely.

Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.

Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.


Nobody is born with a sense of morality. Society or environment instills morality in a person. I highly doubt anyone is born with a sense of good and right. The morality of a person today is the product of a life long shaping process. If I were to be raised among Muslims from day one who commonly believe it is good to kill men who are physically attracted to other men then this I would believe. If I were to be raised in a family of atheist and only know and interact with other atheist who all share the idea that you should rape muslims for some reason, then this I would feel is right as well. Weird as it may seem, but you are the product of the interaction with your environment.

I don't think you can disagree with me that you are born carteblanche. So choosing to back up morality with Christianity is absolutely ridiculous. If anything religion brings along values from whereon you choose to follow them. You don't pick the religion merely to back up the morality you were born with. This is absurd.

When you kill that man, you will hear him screaming. When you draw blood, you will clearly see that you are causing him pain. And, you would want others to treat you well too, right? You wouldn't want people coming around and stabbing you for no reason.

Therefore, it's like a series of logic.

(A) You are told that killing is good.
(B) You don't like being in pain.
(C) You see that you are causing pain to others when you are about to kill them.
(D) You don't want that kind of treatment on yourself.
(E) You realize that killing others is not such a good thing.

We judge actions based on how we ourselves would like to be treated.
"What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." (Epictetus)


Very untrue. Among all societies which have been studied by anthropologists or ethnographers there were only few universal values. Murder is universally considered wrong. However about almost anything else peoples have different values at times. The reason murder is seen as wrong, is almost certainly because no society could function when people murder each other. So practically in this world it leaves no room for any society not to condemn murder. But since I have talk in a more simplistic way to you and apparently I have to explain every single thing to you I must add that the things I said were hypothetical.

So now, you are raised among savages who are a tight group of people consisting of maybe 5 nuclear families all with mother father and maybe three or four children. Now these people only eat flesh of humans. All their lives as they know it they raid villages and eat the flesh of the ones they kill. This seems absurd, but these people would certainly not share your value that killing other people would be wrong. And because you will reply to this saying it is not possible. Indeed it is not that's why its hypothetical and far fetched, but the point is to illustrate another point. Confusing I know.

Ask any man in Holland with two dutch parents who were socially active during the 70's and 80's how he feels about homosexuality and he will give you a typical tolerant answer, that they are just like you and me. Ask any man who was raised in Iran with parents active during the Revolution led by Khomeini and he will tell you that homosexuals deserve to die. This illustrates that values are instilled in a person by society.

I really don't get how you can think you are born with morals. That sounds so ignorant to me. Yes I choose ignorant, because I know you don't mind to be called a lot of things, but ignorant you are.

One of the most influential writers in early modern Europe Thomas Hobbes believed when there was no order all men would be savages and only be led by one thing namely self interest. The result would be murder,pillage and a whole lot of other gruesome things. Therefore he believed absolutism should be with the king in order to create order. And with order a livable society. Hobbes influence stretches far beyond the crappy fag you quoted.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 22:30 GMT
#120
On March 27 2008 07:23 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 07:21 Snet wrote:
Religion is a dangerous thing when combined with fucking lunatics.

If these people aren't put in jail it will be pretty screwed up.

Yep, very true. Evidence of the many historical wars and homicides.

Actually, lunatics in general are dangerous combined with anything.

But, I don't think they will be put into jail. They didn't do anything wrong. They just didn't do anything right.


If you believe letting your daughter die willfully isn't anything wrong then I wouldn't mind you being locked up with them.
MTF
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States1739 Posts
March 26 2008 22:31 GMT
#121
On March 27 2008 07:16 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 07:11 MTF wrote:
True, but it does not follow that all atheists are antireligion.

This is like saying that all believers in God are probably Christian.

Exactly, which is the point I was getting at.

So, when Christians committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was a somewhat religious cause.
When Muslims committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was for a somewhat religious cause.

When anti-religious people committed murders, they weren't speaking for all atheists, but for a somewhat atheistic cause.


No, this is seriously flawed logic.

Christians committing murder under Christian doctrine = Christians committing murder for their belief system. Not all religious causes, but for Christian causes.

Anti-religious people committing murder under anti-religious doctrines = Anti-religious people killing for anti-religious cause.

Atheists people committing murder under atheistic causes = Atheists committing murder for atheistic causes.

Anyone committing murder under personal issue = Murderous person, with no theistic/political intent.

Atheism =/= Anti-religion, no matter how you're trying to word it. Anti-religious people are atheistic by nature, but atheist principles cannot be inherently allied to anti-religion simply because they share the idea of no God. There is a decisive difference between the two; atheism does not entail anti-religionism. Thus, someone committing murder due to their anti-religionistic views is not by any means committing murder for their atheistic views.

It honestly just seems like you're trying overly hard to tie the two together.
Think. :)
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 22:33 GMT
#122
I think I know why Christianity is often bashed so hard on TL.net The spokesmen for Christianity are not only a minority, but also often up against better informed, better speakers and better thinkers in general. I mean that WhatisProtoss is representing the Christian side really doesn't do Christians any good. In fact reading his posts makes me want to hate Christianity.

bdams19
Profile Joined January 2005
United States1316 Posts
March 26 2008 22:35 GMT
#123
On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!


she's about to get hit in the face with the recoil
Mynock
Profile Joined September 2002
4492 Posts
March 26 2008 22:36 GMT
#124
My penis grew 5 inches right in front of my eyes. No joke.
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
March 26 2008 22:36 GMT
#125
There is no connection. Atheism is simply the believe of there being no God. And it ends there. This certainly does not entail being anti religious. You can very well be an atheist and tolerant to every religion. You can even be an atheist and participate in religious rituals for whatever reason, since your atheistic mind perfectly allows it.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 22:53:20
March 26 2008 22:52 GMT
#126
On March 27 2008 07:36 Mynock wrote:
My penis grew 5 inches right in front of my eyes. No joke.

Edit: Tasteless
Liquid | SKT
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
March 26 2008 22:52 GMT
#127
On March 27 2008 07:35 bdams19 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]

Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!


she's about to get hit in the face with the recoil

I dont think he was talking about the position of the gun
Liquid | SKT
merz
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Sweden2760 Posts
March 26 2008 22:55 GMT
#128
That's fucked up. I don't see how them being religious is stopping them from seeking help for their sick daughter. I'm not religious, but i'm actually going to defend Christianity for once here. This can't be blamed on religion, this is merely the stupidity of two parents. Afaik, people have sought for help with disease and sickness for hundreds of years, while being very religious, and by that I mean by professionals, not from god. They can pray for her to be well again, but why not pray while doing everything they can to help her?


On another note, religion vs atheism is a very dangerous subject to dive into if you don't have all the facts. I don't have all the facts, therefor I stay out of it, that way I won't have to make a complete ass of myself while constantly being proved wrong.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 23:16:39
March 26 2008 23:09 GMT
#129
Just so you guys know, this is the real history of doctors.

http://www.tbd.com/content/article/basic_article.article:::love_life_history_vibrators

+ Show Spoiler +
The Astonishing History of Vibrators
MichaelCastleman
MichaelCastleman
Staff

Posted: May 18, 07 9:56am

More on TeeBeeDee:
Join the Sex Talk Group

Asking for A New Erotic Move

Viagra-Vation: Relationships and Erection Medication

Androgen May Help Women's Libidos

Mention vibrators, and most people think of women's sexual pleasure. But that was the furthest thing from the minds of the male doctors who invented them more than a century ago. They were more interested in a labor-saving device to spare their own hands the fatigue caused by treating "female hysteria." This condition involved a number of vague, chronic complaints in adult women, including: anxiety, sleeplessness, irritability, nervousness, erotic fantasies, and moisture inside the vagina. Female hysteria was actually women's sexual frustration. The history of vibrators is a strange tale that provides insights into both the history of sex toys, and cultural notions about women's sexuality.

Until the 20th century, American and European men believed that women were incapable of sexual desire and pleasure. Women of that era basically concurred. They were socialized to believe that "ladies" had no sex drive, and were merely passive receptacles for men's unbridled lust, which they had to endure to hang on to their husbands and have children. Not surprisingly, these beliefs led to a great deal of sexual frustration on the part of women.

Over the centuries, doctors prescribed various remedies for hysteria (named for the Greek for "uterus"). In the 13th century, physicians advised women to use dildos. In the 16th century, they told married hysterics to encourage the lust of their husbands. Unfortunately, that probably didn't help too many wives, because modern sexuality research clearly shows that most women rarely experience orgasm from intercourse, but need direct clitoral stimulation. For hysteria unrelieved by husbandly lust, and for widows, and single and unhappily married women, doctors advised horseback riding, which, in some cases, provided enough clitoral stimulation to trigger orgasm.

But many women found little relief from horseback riding, and by the 17th century, dildos were less of an option because the arbiters of decency had succeeded in demonizing masturbation as "self-abuse." Fortunately, an acceptable, reliable treatment emerged: having a doctor or midwife "massage the genitalia with one finger inside, using oil of lilies or crocus" as a lubricant. With enough genital massage, hysterical women could experience sudden, dramatic relief through "paroxysm," which virtually no medical authority called orgasm, because, of course, everyone knew that women did not have sexual feelings, so they could not possibly experience sexual climax.

By the 19th century, physician-assisted paroxysm was firmly entrenched in Europe and the U.S. It was a godsend for many doctors. At that time, the public viewed physicians with tremendous distrust. Most doctors had little or no scientific training, and they had few treatments that worked. But thanks to genital massage, hysteria was a condition doctors could treat with great success. This produced large numbers of grateful women, who returned faithfully and regularly, eager to pay for additional treatment.

But treating hysteria also had a downside for doctors? tired fingers from all that massage. Nineteenth-century medical journals lamented that many hysterics taxed their doctors' stamina. Physicians complained of having trouble maintaining therapeutic massage long enough to produce the desired result. (For a look at 19th century treatment of female hysteria, see the film, The Road to Wellville.)

Necessity being the mother of invention, physicians began experimenting with mechanical substitutes for their hands. They tried a number of genital massage contraptions, among them water-driven devices (the forerunners of today's shower massagers), and steam-driven pumping dildos. But these machines were cumbersome, messy, often unreliable, and sometimes dangerous.

In the late 19th century, electricity became available for home use and the first electric appliances were invented: the sewing machine, the electric fan, and the toaster. These were followed soon after, around 1880, by the electromechanical vibrator, patented by an enterprising British physician, Dr. Joseph Mortimer Granville. The electric vibrator was invented more than a decade before the vacuum cleaner and the electric iron.

Electric vibrators were an immediate hit. They produced paroxysm quickly, safely, reliably, and inexpensively?and as often as women might desire it. By the dawn of the 20th century, doctors had lost their monopoly on vibrators and hysteria treatment as women began buying the devices themselves. Advertisements appearing in such magazines as "Women's Home Companion," "Needlecraft," and the Amazon.com of that era, the "Sears & Roebuck Catalogue" ("...such a delightful companion....all the pleasures of youth...will throb within you....").

Electricity gave women vibrators, but ironically, within a few decades, electricity almost took the devices away from them. With the invention of motion pictures, vibrators started turning up in pornography and gained an unsavory reputation. By the 1920s, they had become socially unacceptable. Vibrator ads disappeared from the consumer media. From the late 1920s and well into the 1970s, they were difficult to find.

But some inventions are so useful that they survive despite attempts at suppression. Today, an estimated 25 percent of women own vibrators, and 10 percent of American couples use them in partner sex. Just think, we owe the world's most popular sex toy to physicians' fatigued fingers.
Do you really want chat rooms?
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
March 26 2008 23:36 GMT
#130
Strafe, you are right for the most part. People who often hardcore defend Christianity and other religions are often those who are the most into their religion and such. They also tend to be the least informed group and often come off as pushy and stupid. Most people of faith are just regular people and can be smart and well informed (I consider myself part of this group). The problem is the people of faith who have the greatest voice (because they like to voice their opinion A LOT) are the ones who give us a bad rap. I myself come from a highly relgious family (I have three Lutheran ministers in my family). However I am studying Biological Anthropology which is a field that studies the human physical and biological past, often from an evolutionary standpoint. I have several close friends who are aithiets and we have no problems, I mean yea my belief system inherently says he is going to hell and that does sadden me but im not going to try to force that on him because that just turns people off to it even more. If he wants to become religious I will let him discover it on his own.
Never Knows Best.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 26 2008 23:44 GMT
#131
On March 27 2008 07:16 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 07:13 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote:
I'm certainly not ignorant.


disagree

Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated

Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant.


That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant.

You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist?
It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God.


You're not doing yourself any favors here. I had thought that you were merely ignorant. I am now certain that you are stupid.

An atheist is not necessarily an antireligionist just as a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Got that? Christians, on the other hand, believe in some sort of god by definition.

Actually, Christians believe in God. Not some sort of god.


Different sects interpret the Bible and the God depicted in it quite differently. Gnostics who self-identified as Christians had a very different definition of God than anyone alive today. I said what I said so as to be inclusive.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
AdviCe
Profile Joined March 2006
United States123 Posts
March 26 2008 23:46 GMT
#132
i dont know whether or not to blame religion on this one.. I mean I've seen AMISH folks at the hospital before.. They're all about old school living and stuff
I quit BW, but I wouldve stomped you back when being good counted.
zachmorris
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States106 Posts
March 26 2008 23:48 GMT
#133
I think the main point here is that this girl died of something that could be treated by giving her insulin.
This is a hormone of the body made in our pancreas naturally. She could have been saved rather easily, but her parents made the decision to try and pray to save her. I just feel sorry for her to be honest. Her parents are obviously pretty ignorant. My guess is a lack of education, or they are just crazy. There is a reason the life expectancy of the average person was only about 60 till the 1960s. All a person has to do is realize sometimes we need more than prayer. Its just rather unfortunate. I also think this should not be a reflection upon Christianity being bad. There are stupid people everywhere including atheists and religious practitioners. It usually depends upon the individual. This is coming from an atheist.
I hate zach morris
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
March 26 2008 23:54 GMT
#134
This story is sad. There is nothing in the bible that says "don't go to the doctor" =\ this isn't the time of Christ and the apostales where miracles were preformed so just go to the fucking doctor. I hate people like that, those people and that stupid group of 400 fruitcakes that celebrate the death of soldiers AT THEIR FUNERALS Gah...
Never Knows Best.
ilj.psa
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Peru3081 Posts
March 26 2008 23:54 GMT
#135
On March 27 2008 08:48 zachmorris wrote:
I think the main point here is that this girl died of something that could be treated by giving her insulin.
This is a hormone of the body made in our pancreas naturally. She could have been saved rather easily, but her parents made the decision to try and pray to save her. I just feel sorry for her to be honest. Her parents are obviously pretty ignorant. My guess is a lack of education, or they are just crazy. There is a reason the life expectancy of the average person was only about 60 till the 1960s. All a person has to do is realize sometimes we need more than prayer. Its just rather unfortunate. I also think this should not be a reflection upon Christianity being bad. There are stupid people everywhere including atheists and religious practitioners. It usually depends upon the individual. This is coming from an atheist.

agreed im a christian and i think what the parents did is pretty stupid -,.-
Apathy
Profile Joined June 2003
United States141 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-26 23:59:37
March 26 2008 23:58 GMT
#136
Did anyone notice one of the advertising links from the news page?

LifeGem

"The LifeGem creation process begins by capturing carbon from the existing remains of any standard cremation...."

Anyone else finds this disturbing ?
draeger
Profile Joined July 2003
United States3256 Posts
March 27 2008 00:04 GMT
#137
If people want to be fanatically faithful, they should make sure it only can damage themselves. Punishing someone else for your retarded over-the-top beliefs that defy modern advancements should be punishable with prison.
t.t
zizou21
Profile Joined September 2006
United States3683 Posts
March 27 2008 00:05 GMT
#138
face, meet palm
its me, tasteless,s roomate LOL!
wurm
Profile Joined October 2007
Philippines2296 Posts
March 27 2008 01:55 GMT
#139
lol topic.

*cue MC Hammer*

That's why we pray!
praaaaaaay!
praaaaaaay!
I know where my towel is.
Fen
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Australia1848 Posts
March 27 2008 07:20 GMT
#140
This is extremely sad. Under our law, the parents would be charged with neglect (failure to provide medical treatment) and put in jail. The other children would be taken away and put into foster homes. I do hope this does happen to this family, because they are soley responsible for that child's death and should be punished for it.

On March 27 2008 04:16 illmatic wrote:
What could a doctor do? Give her drugs...........

A shot of insulin (Something millions of diabetics around the world self administer multiple times a day) would have saved this girls life. A test that would have taken mere seconds could have been used to accurately diagnose her. As far as this goes medically, this is a very simple problem. Which is why it annoys me soo much.

See people turn to religion when they do not understand something. Back thousands of years ago, people created gods because they did not understand how bolts of electricity could come down from the sky. This is a similar situation, the parents did not understand why their daughter was sick, and stupidly did the religious thing to do. Prayed to god.

What I find extremely annoying, is that had that girl severed an artery and started bleeding. I can garrentee you without a doubt in my mind that they would have taken her to the hospital instead of praying, while she bled to death. Medically, a severed artery is much harder to fix than diabetes, but because the parents for some fucking retarded reason didnt know that sickness is caused by biological abnormalities and not god, an innocent person died.

Now I have no problems with people that believe in a relgion. It has many helpful uses in peoples lives. However religion should step the fuck back and not get in the way of science.

zizou21
Profile Joined September 2006
United States3683 Posts
March 27 2008 07:39 GMT
#141
On March 27 2008 16:20 Fen wrote:
This is extremely sad. Under our law, the parents would be charged with neglect (failure to provide medical treatment) and put in jail. The other children would be taken away and put into foster homes. I do hope this does happen to this family, because they are soley responsible for that child's death and should be punished for it.

Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 04:16 illmatic wrote:
What could a doctor do? Give her drugs...........

A shot of insulin (Something millions of diabetics around the world self administer multiple times a day) would have saved this girls life. A test that would have taken mere seconds could have been used to accurately diagnose her. As far as this goes medically, this is a very simple problem. Which is why it annoys me soo much.

See people turn to religion when they do not understand something. Back thousands of years ago, people created gods because they did not understand how bolts of electricity could come down from the sky. This is a similar situation, the parents did not understand why their daughter was sick, and stupidly did the religious thing to do. Prayed to god.

What I find extremely annoying, is that had that girl severed an artery and started bleeding. I can garrentee you without a doubt in my mind that they would have taken her to the hospital instead of praying, while she bled to death. Medically, a severed artery is much harder to fix than diabetes, but because the parents for some fucking retarded reason didnt know that sickness is caused by biological abnormalities and not god, an innocent person died.

Now I have no problems with people that believe in a relgion. It has many helpful uses in peoples lives. However religion should step the fuck back and not get in the way of science.



[image loading]
its me, tasteless,s roomate LOL!
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
March 27 2008 12:41 GMT
#142
I still can't believe that the police aren't charging the parents, or at the very least, removing the other kids from the home.

And I was wrong on my prediction ._.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
L!MP
Profile Joined March 2003
Australia2067 Posts
March 27 2008 12:44 GMT
#143
and they say religion isn't bad, the followers are. somehow, i think it's a little of both.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-27 12:56:52
March 27 2008 12:56 GMT
#144
God is overrated but Human stupidity isnt.

+ Show Spoiler +
Seriously i feel really sad for this poor girl ... . Life is so unfair...
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-27 14:36:02
March 27 2008 14:35 GMT
#145
i'm just glad that little girl wont grow up to be fucked up like her parents. here's hoping they don't have another!



just kidding, sad story. fuck fox news.
good vibes only
Rev0lution
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1805 Posts
March 27 2008 14:43 GMT
#146
On March 27 2008 04:13 Funchucks wrote:
I actually think it's a reasonable philosophical position to refuse medical treatment for yourself or your children under all circumstances, just as it's a reasonable position to refuse to steal food rather than starve.

For most of the time humanity was around, about a quarter to a half of children died before reaching adulthood. Generally speaking, the ones who died were weaker than the ones who survived.

What happens to the genetics of a population when you go from filtering out the quarter or half weakest in every generation, to keeping 99+%?

After about five or ten generations, don't you end up with a population of people full of allergies, and attention disorders, and diabetes, and social dysfunction, and depression, and weak eyes needing glasses, and laziness, and stupidity, and fatness, and clumsiness, and other low-grade inferiorities?

What do the people look like after a hundred or a thousand generations?


how is depression, laziness, fatness and clumsiness hereditary?

My dealer is my best friend, and we don't even chill.
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5094 Posts
March 27 2008 14:47 GMT
#147
its so easy to jump on the religion bandwagon but this case is more of a "stupid parents" thing than "stupid religion" thing. granted if you've been fooled into thinking there's an invisible man in the sky you're already lacking a large chunk in the intelligence sector but this is just stupidity.

im just really sorry for the girl.
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Rev0lution
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1805 Posts
March 27 2008 14:47 GMT
#148
at least we can agree that if god exists (and im sure he doesn't) then he was too GOD DAMN busy to cure that poor little girl.
My dealer is my best friend, and we don't even chill.
Freakz19
Profile Joined October 2007
United States54 Posts
March 27 2008 23:09 GMT
#149
I personally believe that if you're doing something like this which can only "prove" God's existance, then you are questioning his existance yourself, which means you're not truly a believer.
Sometimes we run into the dark so that we may be found.
Skew
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States1019 Posts
March 27 2008 23:24 GMT
#150
On March 27 2008 23:47 Rev0lution wrote:
at least we can agree that if god exists (and im sure he doesn't) then he was too GOD DAMN busy to cure that poor little girl.


lmao. If god existed, we wouldn't.

"we didn't have enough faith I guess"... that's almost better than the museum video (hopefully I'm not the only one who saw that).
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4685 Posts
March 27 2008 23:54 GMT
#151
some people are just sooo dumb >__>
troi oi thang map nai!!!
MoRe_mInErAls
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Canada1210 Posts
March 28 2008 00:21 GMT
#152
On March 27 2008 06:57 Scorpion wrote:
God is dead - Friedrich Nietzsche


Friedrich Nietzsche is dead - MoRe_mInErAls
MrOwMrOw
Profile Joined March 2008
New Zealand48 Posts
March 28 2008 00:48 GMT
#153
he died a psycho...not a good example lol...

but anyway...that's just plain horrible...religious EXTREMISTS caused this...not god...lol...
~*^(S)aint^*~
BaDayOri
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)469 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-28 00:51:03
March 28 2008 00:49 GMT
#154
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
This is not the fault of God, nor the fault of the religion of Christianity. IMO this is more of the problem of not enough research. These parents should have read and studied the Bible in greater detail before coming to the decision that prayer was the only way to heal a child if you are Christian. The Bible does have countless stories of people who have been healed by prayer, but in most of these stories, you will find out that while these people were praying, they were doing everything physically possible to help the indivdual in need. A lot of Christians stand out in faith trying to declare their dedication and their love for Jesus, but unfortunately most of these people are not equipped with the knowledge to back up their declarementions.

As for why God did not save this girl, I can't say. I don't think we will ever know why God puts diseases in countries or allows for floods and hurricanes to destroy cities and wreck lives. However, I have personally seen the works of God firsthand and know that he is real and active in the world today. I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke. And what kind of a God would he be if everytime we asked for something he gave it to us? That's not a God, that's a genie. Although this girl's death is tragic and could have been avoided, we cannot comprehend the ripple effect that it will have on people. Quite possibly this death could lead to something far greater than we can forsee. God moves in mysterious ways, and although trusting Him even after something like this is difficult, it's never the wrong choice.

i see where your coming from.. but wouldnt christians, with me coming from a christian family and background, believe that if people had 100% true faith, they wouldn't need to do anything except pray? just simply allow god to do his work? If they took the daughter to the hospital it seems like they aren't completely trusting only on god.. im completely neutral just trying to look at both sides
and no homo but you better show your boy respect, before the heck blow your head off like oral sex -CASSIDY
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
March 28 2008 00:57 GMT
#155
Looks like the parents better start praying for their coffee shop, cuz it's about to go out of business.

Poor girl
KaasZerg
Profile Joined November 2005
Netherlands927 Posts
March 28 2008 00:58 GMT
#156
If god is going to heal the girl. Why doesn't he: fill in your taxrefund, pay the bills, mow the lawn, fix the roof. Bring you food. Make you chew. You see the work of the omnipotent never stops. He has drawn the line and does nothing.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 01 2008 06:22 GMT
#157
Parents indicted in faith-healing death


They are being charged. Also what kind of church teaches against medical care? Weird.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
April 01 2008 06:40 GMT
#158
On March 28 2008 09:49 BaDayOri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote:
This is not the fault of God, nor the fault of the religion of Christianity. IMO this is more of the problem of not enough research. These parents should have read and studied the Bible in greater detail before coming to the decision that prayer was the only way to heal a child if you are Christian. The Bible does have countless stories of people who have been healed by prayer, but in most of these stories, you will find out that while these people were praying, they were doing everything physically possible to help the indivdual in need. A lot of Christians stand out in faith trying to declare their dedication and their love for Jesus, but unfortunately most of these people are not equipped with the knowledge to back up their declarementions.

As for why God did not save this girl, I can't say. I don't think we will ever know why God puts diseases in countries or allows for floods and hurricanes to destroy cities and wreck lives. However, I have personally seen the works of God firsthand and know that he is real and active in the world today. I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke. And what kind of a God would he be if everytime we asked for something he gave it to us? That's not a God, that's a genie. Although this girl's death is tragic and could have been avoided, we cannot comprehend the ripple effect that it will have on people. Quite possibly this death could lead to something far greater than we can forsee. God moves in mysterious ways, and although trusting Him even after something like this is difficult, it's never the wrong choice.

i see where your coming from.. but wouldnt christians, with me coming from a christian family and background, believe that if people had 100% true faith, they wouldn't need to do anything except pray? just simply allow god to do his work? If they took the daughter to the hospital it seems like they aren't completely trusting only on god.. im completely neutral just trying to look at both sides


You dont come to earth so god can pull a david copperfield every now and then, you should have faith, while doing everything in your power to accomplish the healing, drugs are there for a reason, and it isnt to prove god doesnt exist because people get better using it.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
MyLostTemple *
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2921 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-04-01 11:44:11
April 01 2008 11:33 GMT
#159
On March 28 2008 09:48 MrOwMrOw wrote:
he died a psycho...not a good example lol...

but anyway...that's just plain horrible...religious EXTREMISTS caused this...not god...lol...


Fredrick Nietzsche died because cyphilus infected his brain driving him into an awful mental state.

not a good critisizm.
Follow me on twitter: CallMeTasteless
Unforgiven_ve
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Venezuela1232 Posts
April 02 2008 18:17 GMT
#160
obvious april fools joke from god..."pray and i'll save her!!......NOT" *laughs*
:)
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
April 02 2008 18:18 GMT
#161
On April 03 2008 03:17 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
obvious april fools joke from god..."pray and i'll save her!!......NOT" *laughs*

The OP was well before April 1st.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
MeriaDoKk
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Chile1726 Posts
April 02 2008 18:23 GMT
#162
this is not god's fault LOL, stupid parents
Fumanchu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada669 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-12 19:39:22
April 02 2008 18:34 GMT
#163
Easy doesnt fit into grownup life.
[X]Ken_D
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
United States4650 Posts
April 02 2008 18:59 GMT
#164
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]


Yeah. She'll mate a lot that's for sure
[X]Domain - I just do the website. Nothing more.
Quesadilla
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1814 Posts
April 02 2008 19:04 GMT
#165
That's hyper-religious thinking at it's worst. I agree, it's not a God issue it's a parental crap-judgment issue. God calls people to use wisdom, that was not wise.
Make a lot of friends. Wear good clothes. Drink good beer. Love a nice girl.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
April 02 2008 19:08 GMT
#166
ah oregon...
MyLostTemple *
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2921 Posts
April 02 2008 22:03 GMT
#167
On April 03 2008 03:18 CDRdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2008 03:17 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
obvious april fools joke from god..."pray and i'll save her!!......NOT" *laughs*

The OP was well before April 1st.


Romanian?
Follow me on twitter: CallMeTasteless
toopham
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States551 Posts
April 02 2008 22:24 GMT
#168
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]


i've never shoot from a gun or even hold a gun before... but.. from what I see..
wouldnt that gun just go straight back and poke her eye out?
DIE!!!
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
April 02 2008 22:28 GMT
#169
On April 03 2008 07:24 toopham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]


i've never shoot from a gun or even hold a gun before... but.. from what I see..
wouldnt that gun just go straight back and poke her eye out?


We have a winner, someone give him a medal!
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Future_sc
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States783 Posts
April 02 2008 22:47 GMT
#170
yikes...gotta love the extremists...
Twitter @Future_sc Twitch.tv/Future_sc
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
April 02 2008 23:38 GMT
#171
On March 27 2008 21:41 Hawk wrote:
I still can't believe that the police aren't charging the parents, or at the very least, removing the other kids from the home.

Personally, I don't believe in protecting children from their parents.

In the first place, a government bureaucracy isn't qualified to decide what is and isn't abuse. The stiff way bureaucracies work, it will always tend to evolve toward zero-tolerance policies on things which might be involved in abuse, but which do not constitute abuse in and of themselves.

Right now, for example, we have a whole generation of spoiled brats because people are terrified to spank their kids, or show any sign of depriving them. Parents have become like slaves to their children, and people are reluctant to even have children, because it is now considered normal for third parties to judge and interfere with their decisions.

Do I want to have kids someday? Certainly. Do I want to raise children in an environment where I'm under constant scrutiny and suspicion, with an expectation that my life should revolve around their care, and my wife is given the power to take them away and have me pay to raise them however she wants, regardless of my wishes? Hell no. That is no bargain.

The way the average parent raised their kid a hundred years ago would today at least get their children taken away, and most likely also land them in jail.

In fact, if everything the average parent today did with their kids was made public, they would probably be subject to some kind of government interference.

A few cases of serious child abuse are being stopped. Some children's lives are being saved. But what is happening to our overall society?

In the second place, what about genetic considerations? In the span of decades, we are a society of individuals, but in the span of centuries we are an ecology of bloodlines.

If idiots can't destroy their children, then selection won't act on the relevant genetic factors.

This is also a problem with charity and welfare. You don't need much more than a brainstem and a functioning reproductive system to fuck constantly and produce children at an alarming rate. Simple darwinian principles tell you that if society dedicates itself to protecting and raising all of the children, no matter how their parents are behaving, a subpopulation that is genetically programmed to breed at the maximum biologically possible rate without regard for the demands of caring for its own offspring, and genetically incapable of understanding or caring why it should not do so, is going to expand exponentially until it displaces all others.

Now, you can say, "But people can be educated!" and so forth, but genetic differences can make education futile. Intelligence can be lowered. Suspicion of authority can be increased. Sex drive can be increased. Direct desire to have children can be increased.

Aside from that, there will be other optimizations. Twins. Triplets. Litters. Total male indiscriminacy.

Whatever causes people to reduce their rate of reproduction will be bred out, while whatever causes people to increase their rate of reproduction will be bred in. This pressure has always existed, but it has always been counterbalanced by a pressure to ensure children are properly raised, so they can survive in the harsh world to successfully reproduce themselves.

With no harsh world, there is no counterpressure. Right now, we're seeing mass extinction of responsibility and ambition in the developed world. If we keep this "every child is precious" mentality, we're going to breed right down to subhumanity before the inability to maintain our automated industry allows the world to become a selective pressure again.
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
xmShake
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1100 Posts
April 02 2008 23:43 GMT
#172
On April 03 2008 07:24 toopham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:
Natural selection at its finest

[image loading]


i've never shoot from a gun or even hold a gun before... but.. from what I see..
wouldnt that gun just go straight back and poke her eye out?

..haha
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
April 02 2008 23:48 GMT
#173
On March 27 2008 06:31 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 06:26 Romance_us wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:13 WhatisProtoss wrote:


On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote:
Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.


Such as?

(1) Persecution of those with faith in China.
(2) Assyrian Genocide
(3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union
(4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.


(1) This is done is the name of COMMUNISM. Not Atheism. The Chinese government simply will not tolerate the fact their citizens believe in a higher power than themselves.

(2) Extremely questionable.

(3) Again, political motivation, not religious.

(4) I'm not familiar of this, I will research though.

Wait, I thought atheism was the unbelief of religion. The anti-religion.

Isn't it pretty anti-religion for a government to be anti-religion? Haha. Communism fits the bill. If a government wants to banish religion, doesn't it mean that the government is atheist? It certainly cannot mean that the government holds any religious belief, of course....


china's government does a lot of fucked up things that nobody else would do, however similar they are
good vibes only
Danger_Duck
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Burkina Faso571 Posts
April 19 2008 07:05 GMT
#174
From the article:

The family does not attend an organized church or participate in an organized religion, Vergin said. "They have a little Bible study of a few people."

TBA
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 348
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27708
Horang2 4614
Flash 1205
Barracks 824
Jaedong 662
Hyun 574
Bisu 479
Killer 372
Larva 327
actioN 316
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 290
Mini 263
Leta 167
Last 146
GuemChi 127
ZerO 124
Soulkey 118
ToSsGirL 101
Rush 99
Snow 99
JYJ97
Zeus 80
Backho 46
sorry 33
yabsab 32
zelot 31
Sharp 26
Sacsri 26
sSak 23
sas.Sziky 22
Hm[arnc] 18
Noble 16
Movie 16
Shinee 14
Icarus 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Aegong 5
Dota 2
Gorgc483
BananaSlamJamma312
Fuzer 301
XcaliburYe280
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2056
x6flipin477
edward149
Other Games
singsing1811
B2W.Neo331
DeMusliM239
Happy205
SortOf84
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1034
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 27
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 61
• davetesta57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2484
League of Legends
• Jankos484
Other Games
• WagamamaTV235
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 15m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4h 45m
The PondCast
22h 45m
Online Event
1d 4h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
Online Event
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs TBD
[ Show More ]
OSC
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.