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On March 27 2008 07:16 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 07:11 MTF wrote: True, but it does not follow that all atheists are antireligion.
This is like saying that all believers in God are probably Christian. Exactly, which is the point I was getting at. So, when Christians committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was a somewhat religious cause. When Muslims committed murders, they weren't speaking for all religions, but it was for a somewhat religious cause. When anti-religious people committed murders, they weren't speaking for all atheists, but for a somewhat atheistic cause.
No, this is seriously flawed logic.
Christians committing murder under Christian doctrine = Christians committing murder for their belief system. Not all religious causes, but for Christian causes.
Anti-religious people committing murder under anti-religious doctrines = Anti-religious people killing for anti-religious cause.
Atheists people committing murder under atheistic causes = Atheists committing murder for atheistic causes.
Anyone committing murder under personal issue = Murderous person, with no theistic/political intent.
Atheism =/= Anti-religion, no matter how you're trying to word it. Anti-religious people are atheistic by nature, but atheist principles cannot be inherently allied to anti-religion simply because they share the idea of no God. There is a decisive difference between the two; atheism does not entail anti-religionism. Thus, someone committing murder due to their anti-religionistic views is not by any means committing murder for their atheistic views.
It honestly just seems like you're trying overly hard to tie the two together.
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I think I know why Christianity is often bashed so hard on TL.net The spokesmen for Christianity are not only a minority, but also often up against better informed, better speakers and better thinkers in general. I mean that WhatisProtoss is representing the Christian side really doesn't do Christians any good. In fact reading his posts makes me want to hate Christianity.
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On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that!
she's about to get hit in the face with the recoil
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4492 Posts
My penis grew 5 inches right in front of my eyes. No joke.
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There is no connection. Atheism is simply the believe of there being no God. And it ends there. This certainly does not entail being anti religious. You can very well be an atheist and tolerant to every religion. You can even be an atheist and participate in religious rituals for whatever reason, since your atheistic mind perfectly allows it.
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On March 27 2008 07:36 Mynock wrote: My penis grew 5 inches right in front of my eyes. No joke. Edit: Tasteless
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On March 27 2008 07:35 bdams19 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 03:49 Funchucks wrote:On March 27 2008 03:42 baal wrote:Natural selection at its finest Man... there is NOTHING wrong with that! she's about to get hit in the face with the recoil I dont think he was talking about the position of the gun
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That's fucked up. I don't see how them being religious is stopping them from seeking help for their sick daughter. I'm not religious, but i'm actually going to defend Christianity for once here. This can't be blamed on religion, this is merely the stupidity of two parents. Afaik, people have sought for help with disease and sickness for hundreds of years, while being very religious, and by that I mean by professionals, not from god. They can pray for her to be well again, but why not pray while doing everything they can to help her?
On another note, religion vs atheism is a very dangerous subject to dive into if you don't have all the facts. I don't have all the facts, therefor I stay out of it, that way I won't have to make a complete ass of myself while constantly being proved wrong.
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Just so you guys know, this is the real history of doctors.
http://www.tbd.com/content/article/basic_article.article:::love_life_history_vibrators
+ Show Spoiler +The Astonishing History of Vibrators MichaelCastleman MichaelCastleman Staff
Posted: May 18, 07 9:56am More on TeeBeeDee: Join the Sex Talk Group
Asking for A New Erotic Move
Viagra-Vation: Relationships and Erection Medication
Androgen May Help Women's Libidos
Mention vibrators, and most people think of women's sexual pleasure. But that was the furthest thing from the minds of the male doctors who invented them more than a century ago. They were more interested in a labor-saving device to spare their own hands the fatigue caused by treating "female hysteria." This condition involved a number of vague, chronic complaints in adult women, including: anxiety, sleeplessness, irritability, nervousness, erotic fantasies, and moisture inside the vagina. Female hysteria was actually women's sexual frustration. The history of vibrators is a strange tale that provides insights into both the history of sex toys, and cultural notions about women's sexuality.
Until the 20th century, American and European men believed that women were incapable of sexual desire and pleasure. Women of that era basically concurred. They were socialized to believe that "ladies" had no sex drive, and were merely passive receptacles for men's unbridled lust, which they had to endure to hang on to their husbands and have children. Not surprisingly, these beliefs led to a great deal of sexual frustration on the part of women.
Over the centuries, doctors prescribed various remedies for hysteria (named for the Greek for "uterus"). In the 13th century, physicians advised women to use dildos. In the 16th century, they told married hysterics to encourage the lust of their husbands. Unfortunately, that probably didn't help too many wives, because modern sexuality research clearly shows that most women rarely experience orgasm from intercourse, but need direct clitoral stimulation. For hysteria unrelieved by husbandly lust, and for widows, and single and unhappily married women, doctors advised horseback riding, which, in some cases, provided enough clitoral stimulation to trigger orgasm.
But many women found little relief from horseback riding, and by the 17th century, dildos were less of an option because the arbiters of decency had succeeded in demonizing masturbation as "self-abuse." Fortunately, an acceptable, reliable treatment emerged: having a doctor or midwife "massage the genitalia with one finger inside, using oil of lilies or crocus" as a lubricant. With enough genital massage, hysterical women could experience sudden, dramatic relief through "paroxysm," which virtually no medical authority called orgasm, because, of course, everyone knew that women did not have sexual feelings, so they could not possibly experience sexual climax.
By the 19th century, physician-assisted paroxysm was firmly entrenched in Europe and the U.S. It was a godsend for many doctors. At that time, the public viewed physicians with tremendous distrust. Most doctors had little or no scientific training, and they had few treatments that worked. But thanks to genital massage, hysteria was a condition doctors could treat with great success. This produced large numbers of grateful women, who returned faithfully and regularly, eager to pay for additional treatment.
But treating hysteria also had a downside for doctors? tired fingers from all that massage. Nineteenth-century medical journals lamented that many hysterics taxed their doctors' stamina. Physicians complained of having trouble maintaining therapeutic massage long enough to produce the desired result. (For a look at 19th century treatment of female hysteria, see the film, The Road to Wellville.)
Necessity being the mother of invention, physicians began experimenting with mechanical substitutes for their hands. They tried a number of genital massage contraptions, among them water-driven devices (the forerunners of today's shower massagers), and steam-driven pumping dildos. But these machines were cumbersome, messy, often unreliable, and sometimes dangerous.
In the late 19th century, electricity became available for home use and the first electric appliances were invented: the sewing machine, the electric fan, and the toaster. These were followed soon after, around 1880, by the electromechanical vibrator, patented by an enterprising British physician, Dr. Joseph Mortimer Granville. The electric vibrator was invented more than a decade before the vacuum cleaner and the electric iron.
Electric vibrators were an immediate hit. They produced paroxysm quickly, safely, reliably, and inexpensively?and as often as women might desire it. By the dawn of the 20th century, doctors had lost their monopoly on vibrators and hysteria treatment as women began buying the devices themselves. Advertisements appearing in such magazines as "Women's Home Companion," "Needlecraft," and the Amazon.com of that era, the "Sears & Roebuck Catalogue" ("...such a delightful companion....all the pleasures of youth...will throb within you....").
Electricity gave women vibrators, but ironically, within a few decades, electricity almost took the devices away from them. With the invention of motion pictures, vibrators started turning up in pornography and gained an unsavory reputation. By the 1920s, they had become socially unacceptable. Vibrator ads disappeared from the consumer media. From the late 1920s and well into the 1970s, they were difficult to find.
But some inventions are so useful that they survive despite attempts at suppression. Today, an estimated 25 percent of women own vibrators, and 10 percent of American couples use them in partner sex. Just think, we owe the world's most popular sex toy to physicians' fatigued fingers.
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Strafe, you are right for the most part. People who often hardcore defend Christianity and other religions are often those who are the most into their religion and such. They also tend to be the least informed group and often come off as pushy and stupid. Most people of faith are just regular people and can be smart and well informed (I consider myself part of this group). The problem is the people of faith who have the greatest voice (because they like to voice their opinion A LOT) are the ones who give us a bad rap. I myself come from a highly relgious family (I have three Lutheran ministers in my family). However I am studying Biological Anthropology which is a field that studies the human physical and biological past, often from an evolutionary standpoint. I have several close friends who are aithiets and we have no problems, I mean yea my belief system inherently says he is going to hell and that does sadden me but im not going to try to force that on him because that just turns people off to it even more. If he wants to become religious I will let him discover it on his own.
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On March 27 2008 07:16 WhatisProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2008 07:13 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 07:05 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:59 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:54 WhatisProtoss wrote:On March 27 2008 06:51 Mindcrime wrote:On March 27 2008 06:50 WhatisProtoss wrote: I'm certainly not ignorant. disagree Ignorance = the condition of being uninformed or uneducated Maybe biased, yes. Stubborn, yes. Argumentative, yes. Not ignorant. That you defined atheism as being equivalent to antireligion tells me that you are ignorant. You realize that almost all people who are antireligion are atheist? It's like saying, probably all Christians are believers in God. You're not doing yourself any favors here. I had thought that you were merely ignorant. I am now certain that you are stupid. An atheist is not necessarily an antireligionist just as a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Got that? Christians, on the other hand, believe in some sort of god by definition. Actually, Christians believe in God. Not some sort of god.
Different sects interpret the Bible and the God depicted in it quite differently. Gnostics who self-identified as Christians had a very different definition of God than anyone alive today. I said what I said so as to be inclusive.
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i dont know whether or not to blame religion on this one.. I mean I've seen AMISH folks at the hospital before.. They're all about old school living and stuff
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I think the main point here is that this girl died of something that could be treated by giving her insulin. This is a hormone of the body made in our pancreas naturally. She could have been saved rather easily, but her parents made the decision to try and pray to save her. I just feel sorry for her to be honest. Her parents are obviously pretty ignorant. My guess is a lack of education, or they are just crazy. There is a reason the life expectancy of the average person was only about 60 till the 1960s. All a person has to do is realize sometimes we need more than prayer. Its just rather unfortunate. I also think this should not be a reflection upon Christianity being bad. There are stupid people everywhere including atheists and religious practitioners. It usually depends upon the individual. This is coming from an atheist.
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This story is sad. There is nothing in the bible that says "don't go to the doctor" =\ this isn't the time of Christ and the apostales where miracles were preformed so just go to the fucking doctor. I hate people like that, those people and that stupid group of 400 fruitcakes that celebrate the death of soldiers AT THEIR FUNERALS Gah...
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On March 27 2008 08:48 zachmorris wrote: I think the main point here is that this girl died of something that could be treated by giving her insulin. This is a hormone of the body made in our pancreas naturally. She could have been saved rather easily, but her parents made the decision to try and pray to save her. I just feel sorry for her to be honest. Her parents are obviously pretty ignorant. My guess is a lack of education, or they are just crazy. There is a reason the life expectancy of the average person was only about 60 till the 1960s. All a person has to do is realize sometimes we need more than prayer. Its just rather unfortunate. I also think this should not be a reflection upon Christianity being bad. There are stupid people everywhere including atheists and religious practitioners. It usually depends upon the individual. This is coming from an atheist. agreed im a christian and i think what the parents did is pretty stupid -,.-
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Did anyone notice one of the advertising links from the news page?
LifeGem
"The LifeGem creation process begins by capturing carbon from the existing remains of any standard cremation...."
Anyone else finds this disturbing ?
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If people want to be fanatically faithful, they should make sure it only can damage themselves. Punishing someone else for your retarded over-the-top beliefs that defy modern advancements should be punishable with prison.
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lol topic.
*cue MC Hammer*
That's why we pray! praaaaaaay! praaaaaaay!
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This is extremely sad. Under our law, the parents would be charged with neglect (failure to provide medical treatment) and put in jail. The other children would be taken away and put into foster homes. I do hope this does happen to this family, because they are soley responsible for that child's death and should be punished for it.
On March 27 2008 04:16 illmatic wrote: What could a doctor do? Give her drugs........... A shot of insulin (Something millions of diabetics around the world self administer multiple times a day) would have saved this girls life. A test that would have taken mere seconds could have been used to accurately diagnose her. As far as this goes medically, this is a very simple problem. Which is why it annoys me soo much.
See people turn to religion when they do not understand something. Back thousands of years ago, people created gods because they did not understand how bolts of electricity could come down from the sky. This is a similar situation, the parents did not understand why their daughter was sick, and stupidly did the religious thing to do. Prayed to god.
What I find extremely annoying, is that had that girl severed an artery and started bleeding. I can garrentee you without a doubt in my mind that they would have taken her to the hospital instead of praying, while she bled to death. Medically, a severed artery is much harder to fix than diabetes, but because the parents for some fucking retarded reason didnt know that sickness is caused by biological abnormalities and not god, an innocent person died.
Now I have no problems with people that believe in a relgion. It has many helpful uses in peoples lives. However religion should step the fuck back and not get in the way of science.
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