On March 27 2008 05:47 {ToT}Strafe wrote: If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Unlike you, apparently, I don't need the threat of eternal damnation to keep me from murdering.
Nor do I, but can you speak for billy bob chewing tobacco in his pickup truck while watching the girls leave junior high in their uniform?
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.
Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote: this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody
Yeah I guess you're right.
His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.
Wow, I hope not.
If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.
If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.
Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.
So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."
While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.
If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.
I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.
Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."
Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?
Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?
I have a couple things to add; first, this death cannot be attributed to god. This was the parents fault for being such idiots. Second, this does not make them evil. They wanted to do the right thing, their stupidity isn't their fault.
Also, please stop using this as an excuse to rail hate on the Christians. Yes, bad things have been done in gods name, but so have some good things. Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too. That doesn't make it wrong, it makes the individual wrong. Basically, {ToT}Strafe is right, don't judge the many by the actions of a few.
The last thing I have to say is that this guy is full of crap:
On March 27 2008 04:55 Fumanchu wrote: I have literally seen someones chopped off arm grow back right in front of my face. No joke.
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.
Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote: this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody
Yeah I guess you're right.
His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.
Wow, I hope not.
If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.
If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.
Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.
So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."
While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.
If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.
I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.
Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."
Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?
Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.
Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote: this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody
Yeah I guess you're right.
His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.
Wow, I hope not.
If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.
If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.
Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.
So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."
While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.
If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.
I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.
Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."
Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?
Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?
Think of what you're saying.
"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."
would translate to
"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"
Anyway if God would not want diseases, he would not create them.
Lol. Spoken like a true, ignorant bastard.
On March 27 2008 04:22 Jyun wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:53 LaLuSh wrote:
On March 27 2008 03:40 vGl-CoW wrote: this just proves that god is real and is able to dish out ownage harder than anybody
Yeah I guess you're right.
His way of saying screw you for confessing to the wrong religion; screw you for choosing one of the tens of thousands wrong interpretations every religion has branched into; and to end it screw you for choosing the wrong church out of millions.
Wow, I hope not.
If God does exist, I sincerely hope he's not completely evil to kill the child of a family just because they practiced the wrong faith. That's ridiculous and immoral. If a person killed the child for the same reason, everyone would condemn the person and call him/her evil.
If you believe in God, at least hold your God to the highest moral standards, and don't use God as an excuse for the evil, as these parents have done.
Since when have Christians been holding their God to a moral standard? Was it God's fault that the child died? Who made that assumption? I thought the child was ill and was destined to die anyways. Her parents failed to get her the proper medical attention she deserved.
So, is it, "You can only be my God if you uphold a certain level of morality. Otherwise, you don't really deserve to be my God."
While Christianity is a bit stupid itself, the people who criticize Christianity are no better.
If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally. So I am really not sure what you mean.
I'm actually a church-goer who has lost a considerable amount of faith in the past few years. I don't like the way Christians advertise faith because it's illogical.
Anyways, your statement is a crazy one. "If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."
Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, I cannot criticize smoking? Simply because it has a large influence around the globe?
Billions of people drink alcohol, even though it's generally unhealthy. But, because it has such a large radius of influence, criticizing alcohol and it's bad effects is stupid?
Think of what you're saying.
"If Christianity is indeed stupid, then criticizing it would certainly not be a stupid thing regarding the influential factor of Christianity globally."
would translate to
"Smoking cigarettes is a stupid and unhealthy habit. A sixth of the world's population smokes. Therefore, criticizing smoking is a good idea"
If you did not realize already, he is a blind follower of faith. Therefore, that statement was assumed to be sarcastic. Otherwise, why would he so strongly argue against anyone who criticizes Christianity?
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.
Christians believe that God instills a sense of morality in every person. The "knowledge of good and evil." So, even in the eyes of Christians, you don't have to believe in God to have that moral compass.
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote: Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.
Such as?
(1) Persecution of those with faith in China. (2) Assyrian Genocide (3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union (4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
Anti-semitism as atheistic? Have you heard of Christians fucking with the Jews for a few hundred years, especially the church? Don't you ever hear the argument from those nutcases, "Jews killed Jesus! THEY HAVE BETRAYED OUR SAVIOR". Are you sure you know what an atheist is?
There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists — atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.
The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called "weak" or "implicit" atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.
There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called "strong" or "explicit" atheism. With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point. Some atheists do this and others may do this with regards to certain specific gods but not with others. Thus, a person may lack belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god.
But lest we forget, the greatest social developments in this country have been from secular reasoning and not religious. From democracy, to universal civil rights, it has been thanks to rationale and the work of the enlightenment, and not the mighty hand of God. I mean jeez, the south used to be Democratic up until the civil rights movement came along, and they've all been Republican since. Racist much?
But I see religion like a drug, too much of it, it'll cause hallucinations, irrational thinking, disturbing fantasies, and insensible behavior.But, Christianity in moderation is fine, its ok if you see everything with moderation, with metaphors and not into 100% context. Even though God may not exist, if it gives people security and a false sense of happiness in a bubble. Ignorance is a bliss ain't it?
By the way, I think using religion synonymous with evil is silly. It is true that religion has been used for many "evil" things, but religion is a reflection of human character and our ability to manipulate others, one way or another. Religion is a byproduct of one of our social developments, and even without it, we would still act accordingly the same, with another bullshit reason to kill someone. Ex: Man finds out wife is cheating on him. Is he gonna be like, "WOMAN HOW DARE YOU DEFILE THE HOLY SANCTITY OF OUR MARRIAGE IN THE EYES OF OUR ALMIGHTY LORD?" Nono, he's gonna be like, "Fuck you bitch, why you be cheating on me?" and promptly shoot her up with a .45.
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote: Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.
Such as?
(1) Persecution of those with faith in China. (2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre (3) Assyrian Genocide (4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union (5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil off and live a free life? This is same with every religion (as I know).
THis just proves that religion has always messed with peoples heads and always will. That doesnt make it right or wrong, its just thew way it is and it always will be. War, pestilence, famine, and a whole bunch of other shit can either be solved or explained by praying to some people.
Unfortunately this little girl had to be the thing that taught her parents that science and religion can co-exist.
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote: Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.
Such as?
(1) Persecution of those with faith in China. (2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre (3) Assyrian Genocide (4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union (5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil and live a free life?
Haven't you heard the countless stories of kids who ran away from home? It's not like kids haven't tried to live a free life. Many have succeeded.
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote: Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.
Such as?
(1) Persecution of those with faith in China. (2) Assyrian Genocide (3) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union (4) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
(1) This is done is the name of COMMUNISM. Not Atheism. The Chinese government simply will not tolerate the fact their citizens believe in a higher power than themselves.
(2) Extremely questionable.
(3) Again, political motivation, not religious.
(4) I'm not familiar of this, I will research though.
EDIT: Researched #4. Nero was JEWISH. This is a false claim.
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote: Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.
Such as?
(1) Persecution of those with faith in China. (2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre (3) Assyrian Genocide (4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union (5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil and live a free life?
Haven't you heard the countless stories of kids who ran away from home? It's not like kids haven't tried to live a free life. Many have succeeded.
Myth: How many people in Communist Russia and China have been killed because of atheism and secularism?
None, probably.
How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic, right? So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — indeed, in the name of atheism and secularism?
No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.
People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism.
But weren't a lot of people killed because they were Christian? Certainly — but not simply because they were Christian. Communists typically regarded religious organizations as a hinderance towards the creation of a worker's paradise. Some religious groups also opposed the communists. Once again, we are generally looking at political issues, not a question of atheism.
Even if some people were killed simply because they followed a religion, it does not follow that they were killed in the name of atheism. Why? Because atheism is not inherently opposed to religion: it is possible to be both an atheist and religious and some religions are themselves atheistic. Atheism also isn't a belief system or ideology which can, by itself, inspire people to do things — good or bad.
To understand this better, consider times in the past when religion has been involved with violence — the Inquisition would be good. How many people were killed during the Inquisition in the name of theism? None. Those doing the killing acted not because of theism, but rather because of Christian doctrines. The belief system is what inspired people to act (sometimes for good, sometimes for ill). The single belief of theism, however, did not.
Similarly, communism certainly inspired people to act and gave them motivations to do certain things, but atheism — which is the absence of a belief and not even a belief itself — did not. The assumption that people in Russia and China were killed merely on account of atheism is based upon two other myths: first, that atheism is itself some sort of philosophy or belief system which can motivate people, and second that atheism is somehow interchangeable with the actual belief system of communism. It also pretends that all the various elements of communist totalitarianism were irrelevant to what happened — which is utter nonsense.
The aforementioned parallel explains why this response is not one which religious theists can use to deny their religion's responsibility for violence in the past. Atheism and theism may not themselves be sufficient to justify violence and murder (or good behavior, for that matter), but belief systems which incorporate them are more than sufficient. Communism (or at least certain forms of it) can be blamed for communist violence; Christianity (or at least certain forms of it) can also be blamed for Christian violence. As a belief system with specific doctrines that were openly held up as justifying or sanctioning violence, religion must be held responsible for the violence committed in its name.
Whether theism can be slightly more culpable than atheism is a matter of dispute. Not being any belief at all, atheism can't motivate anyone in any direction to do anything. Theism is a belief, however, so at least the potential for some sort of motivation in some direction exists. It's been argued, for example, that monotheism is inherently more prone to violence because of the way it tends to be exclusivist — unlike polytheism, which tends to be more tolerant of cultural and religious differences.
It's difficult to say, though, how many of these problems are really inherent in the type of theism and how many are cultural products of the religious belief systems that incorporate them. Whatever culpability theism itself might have, it's likely small enough to dismiss, allowing us to treat it and atheism as functionally equal in this context.
On March 27 2008 05:23 {ToT}Strafe wrote: You guys are such haters. If I want to believe in God that is my choice and you shouldn't pound on me like this. Reading this thread I really feel as if I am under attack on my personal believes, without even posting. Every time you guys blame religion for death I can retort by giving an example of an atheist abducting, raping, murdering and so on. Almost all of you seem to forget that religion is something personal and that the actions of these parents aren't made by religion, but by themselves. I as a Christian wouldn't ever put my children through this, nor would any other sensible Christian I know. Stop taking a retarded person as an example to burn religion you can't relate to.
But you see, the difference is that religion CAUSES abducting, raping, murdering, and so on. Atheism does not. You cannot do any of these things in the name of atheism, but countless deaths have been created due to "God's will".
If you are a pure atheist I don't see any restraints from killing the person next to you other than your own feelings.
Omg, this is seriously messed up.
There is nothing good with religion but keeping pepole under fear to controll them, find reasons for bad things happening and do sick actions. I will always fight against religion until the day I die.
Fine. 'Fight' it for your own believe. You are no better than which you pretend to fight. In fact you fight yourself if you truly do which you just wrote.
Dimwit. Listen closely.
Every single person is born with a sense of morality. Some people have chosen to back up their sense of morality with Christianity, giving themselves a punishment for not acting morally good. Others have strengthened their morality alone without the aid of Christianity.
Whether or not Christianity exists, morality will always exist.
The thing is just that young kids are not choosing Christianity, it's there parents who choose to brainwash there kids to "belive".
Their kids will have lives of their own. They can make decisions for themselves. And usually, the kids who are forced to go to church have less faith than the kids who find it on their own.
On March 27 2008 06:07 Mindcrime wrote:
On March 27 2008 06:01 CDRdude wrote: Bad things have been done in the name of atheism too.
Such as?
(1) Persecution of those with faith in China. (2) St Bartholomew's Day Massacre (3) Assyrian Genocide (4) Persecution of Christians in Soviet Union (5) Execution of any Christian during Nero's rule of the Roman Empire.
This is not true at all. Do you really think that a little girl in a deep beliving Islamic family could just go against thier religion? Just take of thier veil and live a free life?
Haven't you heard the countless stories of kids who ran away from home? It's not like kids haven't tried to live a free life. Many have succeeded.
And you think that is absolutely normal? A kid has to run away from home because of "religion"?
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