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On November 26 2025 11:33 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2025 11:29 Manit0u wrote:
There is no existential crisis for Europe here. There might be for Russia though if they continue doing what they're doing. EU Foreign Policy Chief: Kaja Kallas (at the time) stated, "Russia's war against Ukraine is an existential threat to Europe. We all want this war to end. But how it ends matters." European Commission Officials: Valdis Dombrovskis, Executive Vice President of the European Commission, characterized the invasion as an "existential crisis" for Europe. Baltic and Eastern European Leaders: Leaders from countries like Lithuania and Estonia—who feel the direct threat most acutely—have consistently used the term "existential threat" for both Ukraine and Europe. French President Emmanuel Macron has also hit back at Russian reactions to his own description of Moscow as an "existential threat to Europe," defending his statement by saying the Kremlin was piqued because the truth had been uncovered. A collective statement signed by foreign policy leaders from nations like France, Ireland, Poland, Spain, and the UK warned that the war—and the peace that follows—"will shape European security for generations and affect the existential interests of all Europeans." not only is the war is called existential threat, France said Moscow itself is an existential threat, and how the war ends is an existential threat. And look, EU gave a counter offer to the existential threat.
This is what they're saying to keep people supporting the war. If they kept saying it's no biggie and no problem people wouldn't care.
In any case, Zelensky agreed to the reviewed 19 point plan. Russia on the other hand doesn't want it so no peace will be reached because according to the leaks the Ukrainians didn't agree to anything that would go against their constitution (territorial integrity and joining NATO are in their constitution).
China has now hiked the prices of goods exported to Russia by 87% on average. It seems like Russia is losing friends everywhere now.
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On November 26 2025 11:55 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2025 11:33 ETisME wrote:On November 26 2025 11:29 Manit0u wrote:
There is no existential crisis for Europe here. There might be for Russia though if they continue doing what they're doing. EU Foreign Policy Chief: Kaja Kallas (at the time) stated, "Russia's war against Ukraine is an existential threat to Europe. We all want this war to end. But how it ends matters." European Commission Officials: Valdis Dombrovskis, Executive Vice President of the European Commission, characterized the invasion as an "existential crisis" for Europe. Baltic and Eastern European Leaders: Leaders from countries like Lithuania and Estonia—who feel the direct threat most acutely—have consistently used the term "existential threat" for both Ukraine and Europe. French President Emmanuel Macron has also hit back at Russian reactions to his own description of Moscow as an "existential threat to Europe," defending his statement by saying the Kremlin was piqued because the truth had been uncovered. A collective statement signed by foreign policy leaders from nations like France, Ireland, Poland, Spain, and the UK warned that the war—and the peace that follows—"will shape European security for generations and affect the existential interests of all Europeans." not only is the war is called existential threat, France said Moscow itself is an existential threat, and how the war ends is an existential threat. And look, EU gave a counter offer to the existential threat. This is what they're saying to keep people supporting the war. If they kept saying it's no biggie and no problem people wouldn't care. In any case, Zelensky agreed to the reviewed 19 point plan. Russia on the other hand doesn't want it so no peace will be reached because according to the leaks the Ukrainians didn't agree to anything that would go against their constitution (territorial integrity and joining NATO are in their constitution). China has now hiked the prices of goods exported to Russia by 87% on average. It seems like Russia is losing friends everywhere now.
That's precisely my point to kwark.
Russian PR speech, stirring nationalism. Lots of it is propaganda and sure it has some degree of truth.
Not unlike Europe calling it existential threat and also has degree of truth but ultimately they are all on negotiation table.
Yes I did read about the China hike pricing as well, 87% over 4 years.
In fact it's so high that the overall trade volume is lower but the hike makes the total trade value similarish though.
Hard to say what is going on with Russian economy.
Many Chinese articles mentioned Russia economy is very self reliant and resilient, something they recommend replicating in China more and more.
Also they are still facing payment difficulties after the SWIFT cut off, and apparently it's getting worse after couple of years stabilising
And I can reassure you Chinese web is actually quite against what russia is doing, calling it self sabotaging etc. Not sure if that's to deter more Chinese joining the war effort.
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United States44191 Posts
It’s not meaningless rhetoric. Russia explicitly refuses to negotiate with Ukraine for the reasons explained. Zelenskyy offers frequently but Russia always backs out of talks if he’ll be there. Instead they take turns because Russia will only negotiate with what they view as the powers behind the fake Ukrainian regime.
Russia’s long standing, repeatedly tested, continually demonstrated policy of refusing to talk to Ukraine is going to be a roadblock to your theory that they’ll talk this out.
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According to a recent leak, it is apparent that the supposed US envoy to Russia is acting as a Russian agent.
https://archive.is/utUkc
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
something something Trump admin full of the Best People™.
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On November 26 2025 16:31 Doublemint wrote:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
something something Trump admin full of the Best People™.
However, as the Trump admin shows, it is really easy to be stupid and evil at the same time.
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On November 26 2025 11:33 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2025 11:29 Manit0u wrote:
There is no existential crisis for Europe here. There might be for Russia though if they continue doing what they're doing. EU Foreign Policy Chief: Kaja Kallas (at the time) stated, "Russia's war against Ukraine is an existential threat to Europe. We all want this war to end. But how it ends matters." European Commission Officials: Valdis Dombrovskis, Executive Vice President of the European Commission, characterized the invasion as an "existential crisis" for Europe. Baltic and Eastern European Leaders: Leaders from countries like Lithuania and Estonia—who feel the direct threat most acutely—have consistently used the term "existential threat" for both Ukraine and Europe. French President Emmanuel Macron has also hit back at Russian reactions to his own description of Moscow as an "existential threat to Europe," defending his statement by saying the Kremlin was piqued because the truth had been uncovered. A collective statement signed by foreign policy leaders from nations like France, Ireland, Poland, Spain, and the UK warned that the war—and the peace that follows—"will shape European security for generations and affect the existential interests of all Europeans." not only is the war is called existential threat, France said Moscow itself is an existential threat, and how the war ends is an existential threat. And look, EU gave a counter offer to the existential threat.
Don't know where you copied this, but you do realize that they ahve used AI to write that?
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On November 26 2025 16:43 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2025 16:31 Doublemint wrote:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
something something Trump admin full of the Best People™. However, as the Trump admin shows, it is really easy to be stupid and evil at the same time.
for us they appear clearly that way. I doubt that they, by and large, think about themselves as evil.
are they then? 
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Russian Federation193 Posts
The war will end soon
the only existential threat for europe will be explaining why taxpayers should still support ukraine
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I don't think they are stupid. I think they believe they are entitled to do whatever they want. Thus, they do things "stupidly," as it does not matter how they do it. Doing things properly would mean they agree that they are not entitled. Not respecting the right to do whatever is far worse than breaking the protocol on how things are supposed to be done. The standard for behaviour is whatever they currently think it should be. This is the same as racism. Racism is not because they believe in wrong measurements, stats, behaviour, and facts. Those are just rationalisations done afterwards. Racists believe that one group is fundamentally better than another group. No amount of contradictions will change their mind about that.
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On November 26 2025 17:55 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
The war will end soon
the only existential threat for europe will be explaining why taxpayers should still support ukraine
Worry about your own taxpayers, thank you very much 
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On November 26 2025 15:41 KwarK wrote:
It’s not meaningless rhetoric. Russia explicitly refuses to negotiate with Ukraine for the reasons explained. Zelenskyy offers frequently but Russia always backs out of talks if he’ll bs there. Instead they take turns because Russia will only negotiate with what they view as the powers behind the fake Ukrainian regime.
Russia’s long standing, repeatedly tested, continually demonstrated policy of refusing to talk to Ukraine is going to be a roadblock to your theory that they’ll talk this out.
This is a pretty important but often overlooked point. Putin refuses to be in the same room as Zelenskyy. Not just out of security concerns or anything like that, but because Putin is incapable of seeing Zelenskyy as an equal leader of another country. It's a psychological issue where Putin is the übermench while Zelenskyy simply isn't worthy of being in his presence. It's a matter of pride for him at this point.
This means Putin can not meet Zelenskyy to discuss peace plans, and they can not meet to accept peace plans. This might seem like just silly hindrance, but are two crucial points for actually getting anything resembling lasting peace passed. So all of these peace plans that are laid out, which already have overlapping red lines that neither can't accept, will never be fleshed out into anything acceptable by both parties before Putin is willing to be in the same room as Zelenskyy.
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On November 26 2025 17:55 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
The war will end soon
the only existential threat for europe will be explaining why taxpayers should still support ukraine
How's your bank account doing these days? Living month to month like the rest of your country? What's the price of TVs in your country at the moment? Starting to feel the strain yet?
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On November 26 2025 18:15 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2025 17:55 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
The war will end soon
the only existential threat for europe will be explaining why taxpayers should still support ukraine How's your bank account doing these days? Living month to month like the rest of your country? What's the price of TVs in your country at the moment? Starting to feel the strain yet?
I'd assume that critical propaganda personnel is usually paid well enough, no matter their competency.
On November 26 2025 17:51 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2025 16:43 Simberto wrote:On November 26 2025 16:31 Doublemint wrote:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
something something Trump admin full of the Best People™. However, as the Trump admin shows, it is really easy to be stupid and evil at the same time. for us they appear clearly that way. I doubt that they, by and large, think about themselves as evil. are they then?
No one views themself as evil. Doesn't change that some people are evil. The Nazis by and large also thought of themselves as people doing what is necessary for the greater good.
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Holy shit, so basically the leak confirms a few things:
1. Everyone has a playbook on Trump, the two crucial things when manipulating him are to butter him up with compliments and congratulations and more importantly, talk to him before he talks to someone else
2. They were arranging this meeting so he can make sure Zelensky doesn't have the upper hand + they threw him a "historic meeting" he can boast about, Trump is just a child, with nuclear weapons, great
3. Witkoff is not working for a peace, he's not working for United States, he is actively giving advice on how to manipulate the US president to a political adversary
In any normal regime, Witkoff would end up in a black site, but Trump is going to either pretend like this never happened or say this is normal.
Disgusting either way.
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On November 26 2025 20:58 Jankisa wrote:
Holy shit, so basically the leak confirms a few things:
1. Everyone has a playbook on Trump, the two crucial things when manipulating him are to butter him up with compliments and congratulations and more importantly, talk to him before he talks to someone else
2. They were arranging this meeting so he can make sure Zelensky doesn't have the upper hand + they threw him a "historic meeting" he can boast about, Trump is just a child, with nuclear weapons, great
3. Witkoff is not working for a peace, he's not working for United States, he is actively giving advice on how to manipulate the US president to a political adversary
In any normal regime, Witkoff would end up in a black site, but Trump is going to either pretend like this never happened or say this is normal.
Disgusting either way.
He did the latter. Trump is normalizing the treason, claiming it's because Witkoff is a dealmaker
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That's what you get for electing someone with the mentality of a 12 year old. And not a smart 12 year old at that.
Pat him on his back, tell him how great he is and that you'll give him a gift if he's a good boy and he'll basically do anything you want.
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On November 26 2025 17:55 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
The war will end soon
the only existential threat for europe will be explaining why taxpayers should still support ukraine
Its called a defence budget, Ukraine is willing to fight the existential threat to them for them for money. I don't know how poor you imagine russia to be vs the west but the aid to Ukraine can and should be so much higher, a trillion a year spread across NATO wouldn't kill them.
compare US Aid to Ukraine vs the amount spent over the cold war to fight russia, best deal the west has ever gotten.
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So far, by estimates, Ukraine has spent around $ 500 billion which includes all the arms transfers to them as well as everything they made and bought internally.
Just in 2025, NATO Members are projected to spend about $ 1,5 trillion, so 3 times as much as Ukraine spent over almost 4 years to defend against Russia.
Out of the Ukrainian spending, about half is coming from NATO members, so that's a bit more then $ 50 billion a year from the whole alliance, to basically not only cripple Russian offensive capabilities but also completely fuck their ability to export to their other adversaries and generally make itself much weaker by moving troops and anti air defenses to Ukraine.
That is an amazing investment, you can't beat that, and the only person who can't do this math, probably because of Russian kompromat is Trump.
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EPT
