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On August 26 2025 18:01 spets1 wrote: putin is the worst, i agree with you guys that he is abusing russian people and running a mafia state basically. Yes he is 100 times worse than any of the western leaders, or the countries. Yet im not blind to what the west is doing either
Yes you are. It’s just another layer of thought control they drill into you. Even the resistance in Russia is controlled towards “sure, X, but everyone X and the the west also Y”.
This one is actually Soviet era, it dates from when the people couldn’t be made to believe government lies anymore because it was so clear that the Soviet system wasn’t working. Instead of claiming that the Soviets had the best fridges and plumbing and work conditions they pushed that the west was also lying about the material conditions. That sure, the Soviet government lies, but everyone lies, and the Soviet opposition cynics are smarter because they know that the government is lying. They know the Soviet economic system isn’t working, they don’t fall for the propaganda, and they also “know” that the west is failing and they don’t “fall” for western claims of prosperity.
Let's put it another way. Do you really think that the Politburo (or Putin) would go "sure, we can control the opinions of people who believe everything in state newspapers and on state tv but I guess there's nothing we can do about cynics or free thinkers so let's just give up on controlling them". Is that even remotely plausible? Or would they perhaps have some of their best minds working out how to shape those people too? Surely they’d spend far more time and money and effort on the people who are “too smart” to believe the lies of the government and claim to hate it.
They came up with what is called the "reverse cargo cult".
You are fully reverse cargo culted. If you know what it is and how it works it's actually quite cool in a dark way to see someone like you out here in the wild. You didn't even know what they did to you.
On August 26 2025 21:52 spets1 wrote: Wait you're telling me there is no propaganda in the west? And none of you fall for it? Wow
This thread is the echo chamber. You fail to see evidence right in front of you
This is pure Kremlin post. It’s like watching someone’s science experiment. You can’t even engage the premise of what they did to you and self reflect, you can literally only project to the west.
Edit: I’m reminded of this exchange a few years ago.
I remarked that Russians have had the concept of an objective truth trained out of them and when challenged on a lie will always deflect and project that lie on the other party. A Russian got upset by that assertion. To refute it all he needed to do was say “this is false, I am able to conceptualize an idea of truth”. That would have been enough because by asserting it was false he would have shown that he understood the idea of false.
But for post after post he just changed the subject to the west, never addressing the claim that he was unable to address a claim. Like a very well trained dog.
On August 26 2025 21:52 spets1 wrote: Wait you're telling me there is no propaganda in the west? And none of you fall for it? Wow
This thread is the echo chamber. You fail to see evidence right in front of you
This is pure Kremlin post. It’s like watching someone’s science experiment. You can’t even engage the premise of what they did to you and self reflect, you can literally only project to the west.
Theres no point talking. The most sure people of themselves and their opinions are like religious fanatics. I hope it's the minority and there are actually smart people that able to question and self reflect
On August 26 2025 22:09 spets1 wrote: Theres no point talking. The most sure people of themselves and their opinions are like religious fanatics. I hope it's the minority and there are actually smart people that able to question and self reflect
Your issue is that we’ve seen you before. You’re trained by years of programming and a lot of people have no real interest in watching this particular repeat broadcast. We say Russia invaded Ukraine, you can’t evaluate that statement and so immediately respond “but Libya”. We say Budapest memorandum, you can’t evaluate whether Russia is in breach of their signed agreement to respect the borders of Ukraine and so immediately go “but agreement by NATO not to expand” (which, incidentally, didn’t exist).
You’re boring and more than a little sad.
The first few times we saw it it was interesting to see their science experiment. It was interesting to see how they got someone who claims to hate Putin to be so thoroughly pro Putin. How they turned a man into a dog. Not good, but interesting.
But we’ve had the first few times and now it’s just tiresome and sad. It makes me sad for what they did to you and millions like you. I don’t even hate Russians, I hate what they did to you.
Edit: I don’t put effort into debating Russians on facts for the same reason I wouldn’t try to teach a dog not to eat shit using a paper on germ theory. It’d be madness, a complete waste of time.
This post above and other posts shows that you're a one dimensional person unaware of themself and completely unable to see what's in front of them. By being so condescending and only throwing out insults you show your low class and bigotry
At least I'm able to see both sides of the conflict you on the other hand claim one side is completely clean when there's mountain of evidence staring you in the face. You're exactly the person, dog that you're desrcribing
On August 26 2025 21:52 spets1 wrote: Wait you're telling me there is no propaganda in the west? And none of you fall for it? Wow
This thread is the echo chamber. You fail to see evidence right in front of you
This is pure Kremlin post. It’s like watching someone’s science experiment. You can’t even engage the premise of what they did to you and self reflect, you can literally only project to the west.
Edit: I’m reminded of this exchange a few years ago.
I remarked that Russians have had the concept of an objective truth trained out of them and when challenged on a lie will always deflect and project that lie on the other party. A Russian got upset by that assertion. To refute it all he needed to do was say “this is false, I am able to conceptualize an idea of truth”. That would have been enough because by asserting it was false he would have shown that he understood the idea of false.
But for post after post he just changed the subject to the west, never addressing the claim that he was unable to address a claim. Like a very well trained dog.
The other part that is sad is Russia is so fucking needy. So desperate for attention and love and what they believe to be respect and they don’t understand that everyone who sees them acting out just pities them even harder.
They’re like a scrawny wannabe gangster kid playing rap on their phone loudly on a crowded train. They think everyone is somehow intimidated by this and that nobody is calling them out on it because of how manly their tracksuit makes them look. The reality is that everyone sees a scared needy child who was so deprived of any kind of love or attention growing up that they’re craving attention, even negative attention, which manifests in antisocial ways. They don’t call out the kid because it’s just not worth it, what the kid desperately wants is someone to see him as a person worthy of attention, even if that attention is a demand that he turn off that shitty music. What the kid needs is therapy.
When Medvedev goes on drunken rants about nuking London nobody in Britain is afraid, just like nobody is afraid of the kid on the train. The louder and needier Russia acts the more the world laughs at them. You can’t cry and beg and whine your way into respect, you have to fix yourself, and the pathetic need for external validation Russia has ain’t it.
On August 26 2025 22:37 spets1 wrote: This post above and other posts shows that you're a one dimensional person unaware of themself and completely unable to see what's in front of them. By being so condescending and only throwing out insults you show your low class and bigotry
At least I'm able to see both sides of the conflict you on the other hand claim one side is completely clean when there's mountain of evidence staring you in the face. You're exactly the person, dog that you're desrcribing
This post seems one-dimensional, please inject some post-truth into your description of how we view the conflict I feel too threatened
On August 26 2025 21:23 KwarK wrote: The resistance in Russia is controlled towards “sure, X, but everyone X and the the west also Y”. It’s just another layer of thought control they drill into you. Russians can't evaluate, they can only deflect.
On August 26 2025 21:52 spets1 wrote: Wait you're telling me there is no propaganda in the west?
On August 26 2025 21:23 KwarK wrote: The dog barks every time you say the word "bell".
On August 26 2025 22:37 spets1 wrote: This post above and other posts shows that you're a one dimensional person unaware of themself and completely unable to see what's in front of them. By being so condescending and only throwing out insults you show your low class and bigotry
At least I'm able to see both sides of the conflict you on the other hand claim one side is completely clean when there's mountain of evidence staring you in the face. You're exactly the person, dog that you're desrcribing
What mountains of evidence? You have provided none. When challenged on the specifics of your claim, you declined saying
"I don't want to get into these arguments because i don't want to waste my time about specifics"
So all we've gotten is assertion after unsupported assertion of the same exact narrative we've heard a hundred times. You've said nothing new that Putin supporting Russians and Putin stans in the West have repeated ad naseum.
You are incapable of understanding that we do, in fact, understand both perspectives. We are perfectly capable of understanding that Germany opened a new front because of lebensraum and at the same time say there was no reason to invade the east, that lebensraum is a crummy perspective. And furthermore, because German leadership adopted lebensraum into their belief system, it sufficiently explains the cause of the wars in the east without 'both siding' Poland and USSR as needing to be equally culpable for the invasion that happened to them.
On August 26 2025 22:37 spets1 wrote: This post above and other posts shows that you're a one dimensional person unaware of themself and completely unable to see what's in front of them. By being so condescending and only throwing out insults you show your low class and bigotry
At least I'm able to see both sides of the conflict you on the other hand claim one side is completely clean when there's mountain of evidence staring you in the face. You're exactly the person, dog that you're desrcribing
What mountains of evidence? You have provided none. When challenged on the specifics of your claim, you declined saying
"I don't want to get into these arguments because i don't want to waste my time about specifics"
So all we've gotten is assertion after unsupported assertion of the same exact narrative we've heard a hundred times. You've said nothing new that Putin supporting Russians and Putin stans in the West have repeated ad naseum.
You are incapable of understanding that we do, in fact, understand both perspectives. We are perfectly capable of understanding that Germany opened a new front because of lebensraum and at the same time say there was no reason to invade the east, that lebensraum is a crummy perspective. And furthermore, because German leadership adopted lebensraum into their belief system, it sufficiently explains the cause of the wars in the east without 'both siding' Poland and USSR as needing to be equally culpable for the invasion that happened to them.
In fairness the USSR was equally culpable. The USSR supported a policy of imperialist land grabs and dividing Eastern Europe up through military force. The USSR allied with Nazi Germany, supplied Nazi Germany, armed Nazi Germany, invaded the enemies of Nazi Germany. More Soviet troops fought on the Nazi side in WW2 than Italian troops. Operation Barbarossa was fully aligned with the Soviet Union's idea of legitimate and reasonable foreign policy for a nation to have, they had no ideological problem with it and had they been in Germany's position they'd have done the same.
The USSR is a rapist, they like the idea of rape, they like rape, they hang out with other rapists like Nazi Germany, they hold down the victims of rapists like Poland, they join in, and then they murder their victim in the Katyn forest.
Then, after they were done burying the body of Poland together, Germany turns on the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Union cries to Britain for help as Germany rapes them using the weapons and fuel that the Soviet Union provided Germany for the express purpose of committing more rapes.
On August 26 2025 11:31 EEk1TwEEk wrote: For those who say that the war is unprovoked, here's a 2-year old video of Joe Rogan interviewing Dave Smith - 2 americans, no russian propaganda.
I watched the video.
I don't want to engage with specific points since it would take too long, but I took notes on what was said and am gonna post them below. Hopefully you and others can pick each claim and provide evidence / counter-arguments instead of just vaguely talking past each other.
Note for those that didn't watch the video, this is Dave Smith's recounting of the circumstances that led to the war. The notes are also written in the shorten format without proper grammar and punctuation, but hopefully you get the gist of what was being said. Also sorry if the statements here seem disjointed, I tried to leave out the unimportant bits, but they are in the order in which they were said in the video.
deal worked out but boris johnson made zelensky not to agree to it; in the deal putin agreed to pull out of ukraine if donbas region got the autonomy and ukraine never joined NATO, which might not be the best deal, but is better than what we got now
official west narrative is that putin is a madman trying to restore old soviet union and this is the real threat, but also he's losing in ukraine and getting humiliated by the poorest country in europe; and even though the narrative says he's a madman, no one thinks he will actually use the nuclear weapons
the west narrative also says the war is *unprovoked*, but don't listen to what putin is saying; dave smith thinks putin is wrong for invading ukraine and says he's the most anti-war person there is, but to say putin was unprovoked is insane
roger waters is right (alluding to some cnn interview)
after soviet union collapsed in 1991 there was a promise, both verbally *and* put in writing that said nato will not expand 1 inch to the east from the current line (west germany)
and every single president since then has moved nato east, to the point that nato is now on russia's border
putin complained about putting dual-use launchers in poland that could launch nukes into russia in a matter of minutes
then in 2014 there was a coup in ukraine, *completely* led by the west (tape of gideon rose proves it - they play the tape of him on stephen colbert show)
all the george soros ngos were funding the millitias on the ground that were overthrowing the government (tape of victoria nuland saying who will be the new goverment in ukraine proves it)
ukraine goverment was kinda siding more with russia, then we overthrew that government and installed pro-america one; and this was the huge red line for putin
analogy made to what would america do if russia was coming and overthrowing the government in montreal and installing a pro-russia government there - would you call that an unprovoked attack
there are 2 things involving ukraine that happened very recently in america history that are very relevant: 1. our (americas) last president was impeached over a thing with ukraine 2. current president's son was getting paid millions of dollars from a company burisma in ukraine
basically what happened after 2014, company burisma was in bed with old ukraine government that was aligned with russia, and so when that government was overthrown they were very worried. so instead of bribing the new government, they went straight to the source and bribed the son of the sitting vice-president
then trump wanted to investigate everything involving joe and hunter biden and ukraine, but got to an area where it was not okay what he was doing (by saying i will not send you these weapons unless you give us what we need for the investigation)
but ultimately trump caved and sent the weapons to ukraine
not only obama overthrew the regime, joe biden was the point man running ukraine policy, then trump sends a bunch of new weapons to this new government that even obama wouldn't send in because he feared it would provoke russia, and then joe biden is the next president who was the last guy who was the point man on ukraine who was there when the coup happened - this is all the context that led to putin to invade ukraine
the donbas region is majority ethnically russian and they got really pissed off when the new government came in 2014 and they were basically warring with western parts of the country and they had a referendum in 2015 voting overwhelmingly that they want to be a part of the russia, but putin didn't take them
concern for all us should just be that there's no nuclear conflict between america and russia, which seems like we're dangerously close to
EPT
