NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On August 26 2025 17:19 Jankisa wrote: You guys are living in a post truth society.
You are living under a government who's been using the firehose of falsehood as their official government communication tool for decades.
I hate my government, so do most posters on these forums, hell, at this point I'm not even a big fan of Zelenskyy as a politician, but he's a hell of a war time leader and 100 x times the man and human compared to Putin, Vučić or Xi, and by extension you guys.
Well, you think that we are living in a government driven by propaganda and I understand this viewpoint from your perspective.
But why on the other hand you think that you are given full information about Zelenskiy and the regime? I've seen the nazi tatoos of the Azov batallion personnel when they were surrendering in Azovstal, a 2 minute video of swastikas and Hitler's portraits on their torsos. For some reason ALL of the media called that the "evacuation" operation, but nvm. There are countless videos of the so-called "busification" recruitment tactics, countless amounts of evidence that the ukranian and russian churches are closed, and priests are put in jail, imprisonments for speaking russian in public, persecution of journalists and political figures who are not mainstream and so on and so forth.
But I've never seen that in the official western media, and then Ze goes to nato summit in his green T-shirt and talks about saving the democracy. He's presented as a martyr but he actually is a dictator and a clown (his profession before being a president)
On August 26 2025 09:47 spets1 wrote: I don't need to go back 40 years. The same requests were formally repeated in 2008 and 2021 and completely rejected by the west. And because this point of not trusting Russia has been repeated so much I wanted to address it
Notice how you quoted the 40 years part of my post but not the part about how you won't be able to explain how it justifies invading Ukraine
As was already pointed out to you several times, before Russia invaded Ukraine had no intention to join NATO, no prospects of that happening (and certainly after Russia's initial invasion), and had an overwhelmingly positive view of Russia. You're peddling lies which are completely removed from reality.
putin is the worst, i agree with you guys that he is abusing russian people and running a mafia state basically. Yes he is 100 times worse than any of the western leaders, or the countries. Yet im not blind to what the west is doing either
On August 26 2025 09:47 spets1 wrote: I don't need to go back 40 years. The same requests were formally repeated in 2008 and 2021 and completely rejected by the west. And because this point of not trusting Russia has been repeated so much I wanted to address it
Notice how you quoted the 40 years part of my post but not the part about how you won't be able to explain how it justifies invading Ukraine
Just watch the video, dave smith - joe rogan, 20 minutes. Perfectly gives you information on the provocations of Russia since 1991. Both are American, no propaganda, part of the video is a clip from fking 2014.
The war is never justified in any shape or form, but I've never seen threads on US invasion in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, etc - why?
On August 26 2025 09:47 spets1 wrote: I don't need to go back 40 years. The same requests were formally repeated in 2008 and 2021 and completely rejected by the west. And because this point of not trusting Russia has been repeated so much I wanted to address it
Notice how you quoted the 40 years part of my post but not the part about how you won't be able to explain how it justifies invading Ukraine
Just watch the video, dave smith - joe rogan, 20 minutes. Perfectly gives you information on the provocations of Russia since 1991. Both are American, no propaganda, part of the video is a clip from fking 2014.
The war is never justified in any shape or form, but I've never seen threads on US invasion in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, etc - why?
I won't watch your video lol. You've never seen those threads because you never cared to look for them; but more importantly this isn't how logic works. You cannot use the fact that we allegedly aren't talking about a topic to complain about the fact that we are talking about another, because the issue in this scenario would be what we aren't talking about, not what we are talking about.
On August 26 2025 09:47 spets1 wrote: I don't need to go back 40 years. The same requests were formally repeated in 2008 and 2021 and completely rejected by the west. And because this point of not trusting Russia has been repeated so much I wanted to address it
Notice how you quoted the 40 years part of my post but not the part about how you won't be able to explain how it justifies invading Ukraine
Just watch the video, dave smith - joe rogan, 20 minutes. Perfectly gives you information on the provocations of Russia since 1991. Both are American, no propaganda, part of the video is a clip from fking 2014.
The war is never justified in any shape or form, but I've never seen threads on US invasion in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, etc - why?
Probably because you are blind. Or because that happened long before you entered this forum. Or, in the case of Yugoslavia, before this forum even existed.
On August 26 2025 09:47 spets1 wrote: I don't need to go back 40 years. The same requests were formally repeated in 2008 and 2021 and completely rejected by the west. And because this point of not trusting Russia has been repeated so much I wanted to address it
Notice how you quoted the 40 years part of my post but not the part about how you won't be able to explain how it justifies invading Ukraine
Just watch the video, dave smith - joe rogan, 20 minutes. Perfectly gives you information on the provocations of Russia since 1991. Both are American, no propaganda, part of the video is a clip from fking 2014.
The war is never justified in any shape or form, but I've never seen threads on US invasion in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, etc - why?
Probably because you are blind. Or because that happened long before you entered this forum. Or, in the case of Yugoslavia, before this forum even existed.
On August 26 2025 09:47 spets1 wrote: I don't need to go back 40 years. The same requests were formally repeated in 2008 and 2021 and completely rejected by the west. And because this point of not trusting Russia has been repeated so much I wanted to address it
Notice how you quoted the 40 years part of my post but not the part about how you won't be able to explain how it justifies invading Ukraine
Just watch the video, dave smith - joe rogan, 20 minutes. Perfectly gives you information on the provocations of Russia since 1991. Both are American, no propaganda, part of the video is a clip from fking 2014.
The war is never justified in any shape or form, but I've never seen threads on US invasion in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, etc - why?
I won't watch your video lol. You've never seen those threads because you never cared to look for them; but more importantly this isn't how logic works. You cannot use the fact that we allegedly aren't talking about a topic to complain about the fact that we are talking about another, because the issue in this scenario would be what we aren't talking about, not what we are talking about.
I just don't have time to explain the reasons for this war, too much text is time consuming. At least I am reading the sources that are given to me, to have a ground for an argument
On August 26 2025 18:38 blomsterjohn wrote: If the starting point is that Russia didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 what is the point And yes, lets start using Joe Rogan's podcast as a source lol
IT. JUST. EXPLAINS.
To have a fair argument you should observe the reality from different perspective
On August 26 2025 18:38 blomsterjohn wrote: If the starting point is that Russia didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 what is the point And yes, lets start using Joe Rogan's podcast as a source lol
IT. JUST. EXPLAINS.
To have a fair argument you should observe the reality from different perspective
We know the Russia perspective, we've had people spouting Kremlin propaganda in here since Crimea.
On August 26 2025 18:38 blomsterjohn wrote: If the starting point is that Russia didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 what is the point And yes, lets start using Joe Rogan's podcast as a source lol
IT. JUST. EXPLAINS.
To have a fair argument you should observe the reality from different perspective
2 "comedians" discussing current events and what lead up to them is not something I'd take at face value, ever, no matter how accurate what they're saying might be. There's just talking about it, like friends might do. The analyis is off the cuff and unnuanced at best.
Nope, they're just extremely uneducated. Reading wikis and listening to podcasts doesn't make Dave Smith an expert on anything. It's beliefs like yours that make it possible for Trump to put Pete Hegseth and Krist Noem and RFK jr in his cabinet. Total breakdown of academic order. Anyone can be an expert after all. Craft your own narrative and put your fingers in your ears and shout lalala. No one will stop you because everyone's become too meek or is part of the echo chamber to drag you off your soap box.
On August 26 2025 19:20 EEk1TwEEk wrote: It's telling of your age to paint everything in white and black
Not everything is black and white, but not everything is shades of grey either. This is one of the situations where it is. Since you like videos, i got one here for you that might help you view things from another perspective. Also by comedians.
On August 26 2025 18:38 blomsterjohn wrote: If the starting point is that Russia didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 what is the point And yes, lets start using Joe Rogan's podcast as a source lol
IT. JUST. EXPLAINS.
To have a fair argument you should observe the reality from different perspective
You are thinking about this in the wrong way. If you are debating against someone that holds dogmatic beliefs there are no 'fair arguments'. Would you send a religious person a 20min video and say 'there, just watch the video and you won't believe in God anymore'. Of course you wouldn't.
Besides that, you cannot convert a demagogue that is arguing with you, that is an exercise in futility. If you are in a public forum, correcting the record and educating the public with factually and logically sound arguments is the way to go. Liars and manipulators will always vehemently oppose the public having any kind of information not given to the public by themselves, and they do this by resorting to a myriad of fallacies like ad hominem, straw man and poisoning the well.
It always takes less time to make a false assertion than the time it takes to explain why it is false, they know this and try to flood the thread with disinformation, misinformation, presenting falsehoods as fact ect. and this can only be combated by advocating for the whole and entire objective truth. People are completely fed up with their dogmatic shit and they need to know their bubble cannot last forever.
On August 26 2025 19:30 Uldridge wrote: Nope, they're just extremely uneducated. Reading wikis and listening to podcasts doesn't make Dave Smith an expert on anything. It's beliefs like yours that make it possible for Trump to put Pete Hegseth and Krist Noem and RFK jr in his cabinet. Total breakdown of academic order. Anyone can be an expert after all. Craft your own narrative and put your fingers in your ears and shout lalala. No one will stop you because everyone's become too meek or is part of the echo chamber to drag you off your soap box.
Bold of you to assume Dave Smith reads Wikipedia or anything at all for that matter.
On August 26 2025 18:38 blomsterjohn wrote: If the starting point is that Russia didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 what is the point And yes, lets start using Joe Rogan's podcast as a source lol
IT. JUST. EXPLAINS.
To have a fair argument you should observe the reality from different perspective
If the "diffrent perspective" is as well founded as Joe Rogan you might also just read the shit I flushed down the Toilet 10 minutes ago. Just in the name of "objectivity" obviously.
On August 26 2025 19:20 EEk1TwEEk wrote: It's telling of your age to paint everything in white and black
In my experience most people who talk like this go on to explain that black is white and white is black, as opposed to explaining how everything is gray
On August 26 2025 17:19 Jankisa wrote: You guys are living in a post truth society.
You are living under a government who's been using the firehose of falsehood as their official government communication tool for decades.
I hate my government, so do most posters on these forums, hell, at this point I'm not even a big fan of Zelenskyy as a politician, but he's a hell of a war time leader and 100 x times the man and human compared to Putin, Vučić or Xi, and by extension you guys.
Well, you think that we are living in a government driven by propaganda and I understand this viewpoint from your perspective.
But why on the other hand you think that you are given full information about Zelenskiy and the regime? I've seen the nazi tatoos of the Azov batallion personnel when they were surrendering in Azovstal, a 2 minute video of swastikas and Hitler's portraits on their torsos. For some reason ALL of the media called that the "evacuation" operation, but nvm. There are countless videos of the so-called "busification" recruitment tactics, countless amounts of evidence that the ukranian and russian churches are closed, and priests are put in jail, imprisonments for speaking russian in public, persecution of journalists and political figures who are not mainstream and so on and so forth.
But I've never seen that in the official western media, and then Ze goes to nato summit in his green T-shirt and talks about saving the democracy. He's presented as a martyr but he actually is a dictator and a clown (his profession before being a president)
Here are a few mainstream media articles documenting this:
There's plenty of sources to mainstream western media going into details over Azov and their origins within the far right and neo nazi circles.
No one is running away from this. Their existence, however, doesn't make Ukraine a Nazi country or justifies any invasions, that is insane. It's like saying we should invade Russia because Wagner group existed and their top guys had Nazi tattoos.
Please feel free to share evidence and articles going into this prosecution of Russians. I am genuinely curious. I, as a Croat, spent plenty of time hearing from Serbs how there was an Ethnic cleansing of them and how they were prosecuted even as their army bombed our cities, so I might be a bit more sensitive to one sided "truths" then an average person, but I'd be happy to review any of this evidence that must be overwhelming since you saw so much of it.
EPT
