EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 287
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justanothertownie
16342 Posts
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On October 14 2022 21:38 Mikau313 wrote: When you kill 1000 soldiers and 500 civilians, the civilians were likely to be collateral damage. When you kill 10k soldiers and 30k civilians it sounds like you were specifically targeting civilians. "Civilians died" doesn't always mean "civilians were targeted". "Civilian buildings were destroyed" doesn't always mean "civilian infrastructure was targeted". Per WP article at least Serbian power plants certainly were. Other stuff: Crimea bridge has fuel trains passing through it. https://t.me/infantmilitario/85279 Musk says he won't be paying for Starlink in Ukraine anymore, unless Pentagon cover the expenses https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html | ||
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Mikau313
Netherlands230 Posts
On October 14 2022 21:45 Ardias wrote: Per WP article at least Serbian power plants certainly were. Crimea bridge has fuel trains passing through it. https://t.me/infantmilitario/85279 Musk says he won't be paying for Starlink in Ukraine anymore, unless Pentagon cover the expenses https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html I'm not sure what either of those have to do with the conversation we were having, but you do you. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On October 14 2022 21:49 Mikau313 wrote: I'm not sure what either of those have to do with the conversation we were having, but you do you. I just replied to you and then posted some other news, is there a problem with that? Edited it out if it's not clear to someone. | ||
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Mikau313
Netherlands230 Posts
On October 14 2022 21:53 Ardias wrote: I just replied to you and then posted some other news, is there a problem with that? Not after your edit making it clear that it was unrelated to that conversation, no. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On October 14 2022 21:38 Mikau313 wrote: When you kill 1000 soldiers and 500 civilians, the civilians were likely to be collateral damage. When you kill 10k soldiers and 30k civilians it sounds like you were specifically targeting civilians. "Civilians died" doesn't always mean "civilians were targeted". "Civilian buildings were destroyed" doesn't always mean "civilian infrastructure was targeted". "Likely", "sound like", "doesn't always mean" tell me how to argue with that? At least we all agree an important point: NATO weapon are much more precise than Russia one or I'm missing something? Having the complete air domination you even bombed China embassy and killed some of them lol | ||
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Mikau313
Netherlands230 Posts
On October 14 2022 21:59 geod wrote: "Likely", "sound like", "doesn't always mean" tell me how to argue with that? At least we all agree an important point: NATO weapon are much more precise than Russia one or I'm missing something? Having the complete air domination you even bombed China embassy and killed some of them lol You made a disingenuous post, implying that NATO was intentionally targetting civilians and civilian infrastructure. I'm pointing out to you that showing that civilians died and that civilian infrastructure was hit doesn't prove that that's the case. You argue with that by, for once, actually backing up what you're saying with actual data, rather than supplying a bunch of half truths that don't actually prove what you're claiming. | ||
KwarK
United States44287 Posts
On October 14 2022 20:54 geod wrote: I'm arguing that KwarK's claim is dump and he failed to provide any evidence for it (up to now). Is that hard to understand? Posting massive questions is not a correct way to help him either unfortunately  I provided examples across a thousand miles and 400 years. You didn’t know your history. I did. I stated a historical fact. You disputed it because you don’t know European history (which isn’t necessarily your fault). I, knowing my history, was able to support my statement. It’s now time for you to say “oh, I didn’t know Russia had been doing this for 500 years”. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
- Partial mobilization is almost over, it will be completed in about two weeks; - The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation at the beginning of partial mobilization assumed a smaller figure, not 300 thousand people; - All mobilized must undergo mandatory training; - 222 thousand people out of the estimated 300 thousand have already been mobilized, 33 thousand mobilized are in units and 16 thousand are already performing combat missions; - The frontline is 1100 km, it is almost impossible to keep it with contract soldiers, mobilization was conducted for this reason. - There is no need for massive strikes on Ukraine, for now at least, other tasks are prioritized. He also urged NATO forces not to enter Ukraine directly. So for now it kinda seems he wants to freeze the conflict, maybe hoping that something will change after midterms in US (Tucker Carlson has already ranted on Zelensky for his demands for more weapons). It's certainly not escalation for totalkrieg, at the moment at least. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22577 Posts
And no amount of badly trained fodder for the meatgrinder with no equipment is going to allow Russia to freeze this conflict. The reason Russia isn't escalating further is because they are literally unable to do so, they already can't adequately equip and supply to forces currently fighting. Lets not pretend like Putin is letting Ukraine win. | ||
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KwarK
United States44287 Posts
On October 14 2022 22:53 Gorsameth wrote: The US is united in its support for Ukraine as can be seen by the votes each time more material is authorized to be send. The Midterms are not going to change that. And no amount of badly trained fodder for the meatgrinder with no equipment is going to allow Russia to freeze this conflict. The reason Russia isn't escalating further is because they are literally unable to do so, they already can't adequately equip and supply to forces currently fighting. Lets not pretend like Putin is letting Ukraine win. I think Ardias is reporting what Putin/Russian media is saying, not endorsing it. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On October 14 2022 23:04 KwarK wrote: I think Ardias is reporting what Putin/Russian media is saying, not endorsing it. More likely trying to understand Putin's perception and logic on the matter. I doubt he can operate in any other paradigma rather than shady and behind-the-doors deals and agreements, since he is former KGB who also rose to power in the 90-s, where both business and politics in Russia were generally conducted this way. So I believe he is actively seeking one now. As for my take on Russian military capabilites - I would disagree that Russia is completely uncapable to wage the long war in Ukraine, but I'll agree that it's resources were significantly and inefficiently depleted by poor military and political decisions, and with current incompetent military and half-assed political leadership chances for Russia to get some kind of upper hand in this war are closing to 0 at this point. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On October 14 2022 22:08 KwarK wrote: I provided examples across a thousand miles and 400 years. You didn’t know your history. I did. I stated a historical fact. You disputed it because you don’t know European history (which isn’t necessarily your fault). I, knowing my history, was able to support my statement. It’s now time for you to say “oh, I didn’t know Russia had been doing this for 500 years”. I'm not challenging you about historic facts, I'm challenging you about your claim. If it has a smallest probablity of truth then I'm sure there must be a massive English content talking about it. Just provide it. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On October 14 2022 22:33 JimmiC wrote: Do believe what he says given body bags are already coming back? I feel like I would almost think the opposite of what he said is true or to people try to guess what parts are true and what are not? I know Tucker often gets shown on your states news as if it is news from the US, it is not. His whole schtick is to be as shocking as possible often opposite of the actual news. He legally has one cases based on that you can not trust what he says because its according to legal opinion https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye It is true that many Americans treat him as factual but he knows he is not as does his employer and the legal system. The US changed the rules back when Reagan was president to allow entertainment to be called news so you get garbage like this confusing people. I guess his words are admission of the fact that, apparently. one ot the senior commanders of the Western Military District, Lieutenant-General Mikhailo Zusko, who is actually from Ukraine (!) and has relatives in AFU (!!) after the failures of WMD in Kharkov region decided to make up for it by plugging the gaps near Svatovo with reservists at his disposal, so he sent them without proper training and establishing a cohesion with anyone. The column came under fire during their move, with few dozens dead and wounded. Makes me think that either some people are unshakable from their posts despite all the failures they commit, or that political and military leadership doesn't care much about the war result or the cost of it. As for Tucker Carlson - I'm not too much into American politics, but AFAIK he is one of the talking heads for the Republicans, as is Fox News in general, are they not? On October 14 2022 23:30 StasisField wrote: I wonder what level of "mandatory training" these mobilized troops are getting if they're already being sent home in body bags. It can't be much more than "this is how you put on your uniform and this is how you shoot your gun" It differs from one training ground to another. Again I would say, don't try to percieve Russia as some kind of monolith system. If you percieve it more like feudal state or something, it would be easier to understand. A lot of officers and instructors are doing their job properly, inviting volunteers with combat experience from LDPR or Russian Forces, with UAV training, tactical practice, gunnery, etc. etc. There are a lot of enthusiastic people willing to train, sometimes they aren't even leaving the training ground for the night to practice more. And there are a lot of officers that simply do not care about the men at their command, when people are living outside without proper provisions or heating, leave alone any kind of training, while officers all went who-knows-where. Both these things co-exist in Russia. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 14 2022 23:30 geod wrote: I'm not challenging you about historic facts, I'm challenging you about your claim. If it has a smallest probablity of truth then I'm sure there must be a massive English content talking about it. Provide it. You are challenging him on historical facts. Russification is well documented, occurred in multiple lands and to multiple ethnic groups, and has occurred for hundreds of years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification There is also the Circassian Genocide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide And the De-Cossackization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Cossackization And other genocides committed by Russia listed by other posters on here (and probably more that other posters haven't listed). | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Media report from the Bakhmut front, no CC yet but they are being worked on it says. Interviews Ukrainian artillerymen. | ||
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