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Russia to assist in evacuating Russian civilians out of Kherson.
Russia said Thursday it would help residents leave Kherson after the region's Kremlin-backed governor made a plea for assistance.
The southern region was annexed by Moscow last month in violation of international law.
"The government took the decision to organize assistance for the departure of residents of the (Kherson) region to other regions of the country," Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin said on state television.
"We will provide everyone with free accommodation and everything necessary," he said.
Earlier, Kherson's regional governor called for locals to evacuate — a sign that Ukrainian forces are continuing their advance in the region. On Wednesday, Kyiv said it had retaken five settlements in Kherson.
"We suggested to all people of the Kherson region to, if they wish, leave to other regions to protect themselves from missile hits," Governor Vladimir Saldo said on Telegram. "In addressing the leadership of the country (Russia), I ask you to help organize this work."
Saldo said an increasing amount of rockets were hitting the region, causing "serious damage."
Kherson was among the first regions to be captured by Russian forces after Moscow began its invasion of Ukraine on February 24.
Source
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On October 14 2022 03:09 Sermokala wrote:
The guy Putin just made in charge of the invasion is an Air force general known for carpet bombing Aleppo into dust. He started his tenure by having a massive series of missile strikes onto civilian infrastructure during busy communiting times for maximum terror. For as bad as we've seen from the Russians so far they've treated the war with baby gloves compared to how this new general treated Syria.
It is very likely that the newly appointed command didn't really have much to do with the current missile terror, due to the complexity of such operation. It takes some time to plan something like this out. It is more likely that russia had planned this before he took over, they have been attacking civilian infrastructure ever since the ukrainian counter offensive made big advancements. They have probably planned to escalate the terror against the civilian population for a while now and also must have already started preparations for it. The strikes are really is just more of the same from them. This is also important to keep in mind because russia is framing these attacks as retaliation for the attack on the kerch bridge, a ukrainain attack on russian civilian infrastructure as far as russia is concerned. They do so to justify it within russian sympathising circles. This is most likely wrong for the above mentioned reasons. The current increased attacks on civilian targets would need too much planning and setup time, at best the attack on the kerch bridge made them get this plan out sooner. This is not the work of the newly appointed head of command, or a real retaliation, its just russia continuing their escalation of the war and doing something they must have already intended to do in the future.
For what its worth, they can't treat ukraine like syria 2.0 because their airforce can't operate with impunity, even less so now that more capable AA systems are coming in. The new appointment is probably more of a PR move since he indeed has an image as a 'tough guy', and putins regime has increasingly shifted the blame to the russian MOD. I am confident that if russia had achieved air superiority, we would have already seen the mass bombing of cities via airplanes at this point, well before surovikin took over command. But it makes for a good story, so the news runs with it.
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On October 14 2022 06:19 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Russia to assist in evacuating Russian civilians out of Kherson. Show nested quote +Russia said Thursday it would help residents leave Kherson after the region's Kremlin-backed governor made a plea for assistance.
The southern region was annexed by Moscow last month in violation of international law.
"The government took the decision to organize assistance for the departure of residents of the (Kherson) region to other regions of the country," Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin said on state television.
"We will provide everyone with free accommodation and everything necessary," he said.
Earlier, Kherson's regional governor called for locals to evacuate — a sign that Ukrainian forces are continuing their advance in the region. On Wednesday, Kyiv said it had retaken five settlements in Kherson.
"We suggested to all people of the Kherson region to, if they wish, leave to other regions to protect themselves from missile hits," Governor Vladimir Saldo said on Telegram. "In addressing the leadership of the country (Russia), I ask you to help organize this work."
Saldo said an increasing amount of rockets were hitting the region, causing "serious damage."
Kherson was among the first regions to be captured by Russian forces after Moscow began its invasion of Ukraine on February 24. Source
Most likely to use them as human shield when evacuating their own troops or as hostages.
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On October 14 2022 03:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 01:49 Simberto wrote:
So suddenly everyone is sending air defense systems to Ukraine at once? Do they need all of those? The guy Putin just made in charge of the invasion is an Air force general known for carpet bombing Aleppo into dust. He started his tenure by having a massive series of missile strikes onto civilian infrastructure during busy communiting times for maximum terror. For as bad as we've seen from the Russians so far they've treated the war with baby gloves compared to how this new general treated Syria. .
Nothing to do with the new commander. This is how Russia wage war. They make sure that the civilians pay the price as well. The irony in this situation is that they are wasting the little ammunition they have left on civilian targets instead of military ones. So instead of improving the situation, they are making it worse.
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United States42694 Posts
On October 14 2022 06:40 Vinekh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 03:09 Sermokala wrote:On October 14 2022 01:49 Simberto wrote:
So suddenly everyone is sending air defense systems to Ukraine at once? Do they need all of those? The guy Putin just made in charge of the invasion is an Air force general known for carpet bombing Aleppo into dust. He started his tenure by having a massive series of missile strikes onto civilian infrastructure during busy communiting times for maximum terror. For as bad as we've seen from the Russians so far they've treated the war with baby gloves compared to how this new general treated Syria. . Nothing to do with the new commander. This is how Russia wage war. They make sure that the civilians pay the price as well. The irony in this situation is that they are wasting the little ammunition they have left on civilian targets instead of military ones. So instead of improving the situation, they are making it worse.
Third Reich speed run attempt.
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Russian Federation610 Posts
Power plants aren't completely civilian targets. Almost everything in the world runs on electricity. Army and everything they need from the rear included - food, water, medicine, medical treatment, repair and production, logistics, communication, navigation etc. etc. - all this stuff needs electric power to be made or to work. And that's not even including the civilian exhaustion and sacrifices from it, and hence desire for peace. US understood this perfectly, that's why they were whacking Serbia power grid for good during the Allied Force (plus the bridges).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade052599.htm
"Officials at the Pentagon and at NATO headquarters in Belgium said allied jets deliberately attacked the power grid, aiming to shut it down more completely and for longer periods than at any time previously in the two-month-old air campaign. U.S. officials estimated the attacks had shut off power to about 80 percent of Serbia."
Or Desert Storm:
https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/29/2001861964/-1/-1/0/T_GRIFFITH_STRATEGIC_ATTACK.PDF
"During Desert Storm attacks on electric power accounted for 215 sorties, or about 1 percent of the total US sorties flown. These attacks virtually eliminated any ability of the Iraqi national power system to generate or transfer power by reducing the generating capacity to less than 300 megawatts, and the transmission ability to one-quarter of the prewar capability."
Russia didn't even come close to this effect, the most they achieved were 20-25% on 24 Feb and 10 Oct and both of these shut downs lasted for a couple of days, after that power was rerouted, and damage probably repaired (at least 24 Feb one). Which makes me wonder what's the reason behind this restrain. Thousands of missiles were launched over the course of the war, but in only two separate cases they were used against energy infrastructure. If Putin really wanted to pound Ukraine to submission - that would be the easiest way possible.
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On October 14 2022 04:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The first casualties of the general mobilization are starting to come home to the most import regions of Russia.
The fact people from the recent mobilization are already dying on the frontlines says Putin/Russia is more desperate than I previously thought. I had assumed we wouldn't hear this kind of news 'till December at the earliest. These troops are getting next to no training before being thrown in front of bullets like they're part of a Brannigan Offensive.
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On October 14 2022 07:33 Ardias wrote:
Russia didn't even come close to this effect, the most they achieved were 20-25% on 24 Feb and 10 Oct and both of these shut downs lasted for a couple of days, after that power was rerouted, and damage probably repaired (at least 24 Feb one). Which makes me wonder what's the reason behind this restrain. Thousands of missiles were launched over the course of the war, but in only two separate cases they were used against energy infrastructure. If Putin really wanted to pound Ukraine to submission - that would be the easiest way possible.
No, you are right. Most of the missile strikes found their intended civilian targets.
Though to be fair: It is hard to hit anything but civilian infrastructure if you are using hardware with a CEP that is, in some cases, measured in hundreds of meters. Calling that restraint is more than questionable.
Lets not kid ourselves here. The Russian military is not showing restraint. They are not holding back. There are no gestures of goodwill. Short of nukes, this is the full extent of their military capabilities. They cannot achieve the same results as in Serbia or Iraq simply because they are unable to.
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On October 14 2022 07:33 Ardias wrote:Power plants aren't completely civilian targets. Almost everything in the world runs on electricity. Army and everything they need from the rear included - food, water, medicine, medical treatment, repair and production, logistics, communication, navigation etc. etc. - all this stuff needs electric power to be made or to work. And that's not even including the civilian exhaustion and sacrifices from it, and hence desire for peace. US understood this perfectly, that's why they were whacking Serbia power grid for good during the Allied Force (plus the bridges). https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade052599.htm"Officials at the Pentagon and at NATO headquarters in Belgium said allied jets deliberately attacked the power grid, aiming to shut it down more completely and for longer periods than at any time previously in the two-month-old air campaign. U.S. officials estimated the attacks had shut off power to about 80 percent of Serbia." Or Desert Storm: https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/29/2001861964/-1/-1/0/T_GRIFFITH_STRATEGIC_ATTACK.PDF"During Desert Storm attacks on electric power accounted for 215 sorties, or about 1 percent of the total US sorties flown. These attacks virtually eliminated any ability of the Iraqi national power system to generate or transfer power by reducing the generating capacity to less than 300 megawatts, and the transmission ability to one-quarter of the prewar capability." Russia didn't even come close to this effect, the most they achieved were 20-25% on 24 Feb and 10 Oct and both of these shut downs lasted for a couple of days, after that power was rerouted, and damage probably repaired (at least 24 Feb one). Which makes me wonder what's the reason behind this restrain. Thousands of missiles were launched over the course of the war, but in only two separate cases they were used against energy infrastructure. If Putin really wanted to pound Ukraine to submission - that would be the easiest way possible.
Well like I said, if russia was able to use their airforce with impunity I am sure we would see more of something of that calibre, but they don't, so its hard to achieve the same effect while also being economically with your resources.
It is also true that power grids are not entirely civilian targets, but these attacks happen far from the frontline and some of the things that make electrical infrastructure a valid target are not present / relevant in ukraine. Like ukraine relies on western support as well as what they can buy from other countries for the most part. They do not have an effective war production at the moment, which is something you usually aim to disrupt with such attacks. Suppressing of air defence also seems less of a factor since those strikes don't seem to be accompanied by large scale air operations. And there are at least some attacks where there really doesn't seem any military goal - like the the hit on the (vacant) german consulate building, or the missile that hit near the klitschko pedestrian-bicycle bridge in kiev, which you right fully pointed out as probably aimed at the EUAM building.
I don't want to end up getting mixed in with the posters that are a bit quicker on the draw when it comes to accusing russia of bad things, but there is both historic precedence as well as plenty indications that at least some of the targets in the recent missile attacks are purely intended to demoralise the civilian population. And it is a strategy that has been a staple both in russias recent military operations as well as the soviet union. There also have repeatedly been strikes on apartment complexes and civilian areas. I am sure many of these can be explained due to buildings having been used to house/train troops or bad intel, but certainly not all of them.
So in short, I agree. Attacking electrical infrastructure is not automatically an attack on civilian targets. I do think the public reaction to russias current attacks is justified though as they seem to follow a trend of escalation aimed at the general population.
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On October 14 2022 08:20 JimmiC wrote:
I'm just surprised that they are actually sending the evidence back to Russia. Given the outcry I predict they will send back less going forward, to be clear I do not mean that less will be sent to the front line or less will die.
I'm surprised they're sending conscripts to the front lines at all. Common sense would be send the newly mobilized to secondary fronts (finland, central asia, far east), freeing up the regular troops there for ukraine.
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One event at a specific time and specific location is enough for you to shit-talk their whole history of thousand years? Very well played indeed!
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On October 14 2022 00:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2022 23:25 geod wrote:On October 13 2022 19:16 KwarK wrote:On October 13 2022 18:56 pmh wrote:On October 13 2022 18:49 KwarK wrote:On October 13 2022 18:34 pmh wrote:
Split the whole country alone ethnic lines. Or have the conflict going on forever.
This is the choice there is.
70-80% Ukraine 20-30% Russia
Now the thing is that all the resources are in the eastern part of Ukraine and the territorial waters. Which would make this a very bad deal for Ukraine.
So we split those resources as well with the same ratio. 70-80% Ukraine. 20%-30% Russia. And we then also agree that exploration of those resources will have to be done in a joint venture between Ukraine and Russia,again with these ratios.
Its wrong,it is bad,but this is the reality. The ethnic Russian population of Ukraine does want to be part of Russia. We can ignore this reality but it wont make this reality go away.
So we either make a deal like this or have the conflict go on forever.
Personally i would rather not have this conflict go on forever. It leads to a pointless and immense suffering where in the end neither side will gain anything.
The 3rd option,which is probably the most likely option.
A ceasefire without any agreement. Not all that beneficial for Ukraine because this would de facto put the resources under Russian control. But they can have hope for a better and more permanent solution years or decades later.
We have to get away from beeing stuck in an ideological position where only the very best outcome is acceptable. We have to move towards a more pragmatic position where we accept certain realitys.
And just to be clear:i do not support Russia. And i do think the situation should return to what is was before the war. But the reality is that this will not happen This assertion that “the reality is that the ethnic Russian population of Ukraine wants to be part of Russia” is unsupported by any evidence. People extrapolate far beyond their votes arguing that because they voted for one Ukrainian party over another they must desire the border to be changed. That’s not how any of this works. Right now we are seeing in real time that millions of ethnic Russians within Russia don’t want to live under autocratic Russian rule. The idea that Russians outside of Russia desperately crave it needs a significant amount of evidence. Ok this is a decent point. And i agree my assumption about this is not well founded and maybe even wrong. But i do think,that after everything that has happened,it would be better to split the population along ethnic lines. I cant imagine Russians beeing in a good position under a Ukraine government after all that has happend. And i cant imagine Ukrainians beeing in a good position under a Russian government after all that has happend either. The option to peacefully coexist i think is no longer there. It wasnt even there before the war because there was the seperatist movement in the east. So going by the reality (again my asumption,feel free to challenge this) that peacefull coexistence in wich both ethnic groups are equally treated and have equall opportunitys is no longer possible. A split along ethnic lines would be the pragmatic solution. I dont think this is a great solution,on the contrary. I think that in general this is a very bad solution that should be avoided (i would prefer peacefull co-existance). But i do think such a solution is better then having this conflict go on for many years to come. The conflict won’t go on forever. Putin is speedrunning the third Reich and we’re already at a point comparable to 1944. We’ve done Czechoslovakia and land for peace. We’ve done demands for lands occupied by Russian speakers to be transferred. We’ve done a sudden and unprovoked invasion. We’ve done an attempted blitzkrieg. We’ve done the country of Ukraine being designated as not real, it’s people reclassed as stateless. We’ve done the collapse of a rush that went past it’s supply lines. We’ve done a blitz. We’ve done a high water mark as the army ran out of resources. We’ve done the blaming and rotating of generals. We’ve done the dictator taking personal command and micromanaging units that exist only on paper. We’ve done the no retreat order. We’ve done the execution squads, the mass deportation of minorities into camps, the land grants to ethnic Russians to settle the lands taken. We’ve done US lend lease. Kherson will be the new Stalingrad, an occupied city that becomes encircled due to the Fuhrer’s refusal to acknowledge military reality. We’ll probably have a battle of the bulge at some point where Russia expends the last of its energy in a futile attempt to achieve something. We’re getting wunderwaffen claims on a continual basis, every day there’s a new Russian weapon that’ll definitely bring victory. We’re getting the American economy kicking into war production. The thing about speed running the fall of the third Reich is that it doesn’t take forever. You don’t end up with an unending conflict. You end up with a dictator dead in a bunker, and it’s surprisingly little time to get there. Regarding Russians and Ukrainians coexisting, Russia has been actively genociding minority populations for centuries. Mass deportations and relocations are how we get these large numbers of Russians in other people’s countries. The deliberate destruction of ethnic blocs was both Tsarist and Soviet policy. There is no historical basis for coexistence. Where are evidences for your dump claim? In the case of Crimea it's well documented. The tsars did it immediately after the Crimean war. The sovjets continued the process. I guess you'll probably object to wikipedia as a source, but I don't really care. The wikipedia pages are well sourced, so you can just click through yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Tatarization_of_Crimeahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
"Regarding Russians and Ukrainians coexisting, Russia has been actively genociding minority populations for centuries. Mass deportations and relocations are how we get these large numbers of Russians in other people’s countries. The deliberate destruction of ethnic blocs was both Tsarist and Soviet policy. There is no historical basis for coexistence."
This KwarK guy talked about a consistent policy of Tsarist and Soviet all over the territory through-out the times. I asked evidence for that claim, not for the Tatars-Crimea incident.
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On October 14 2022 01:16 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2022 23:49 geod wrote:On October 13 2022 22:27 a_ch wrote:On October 13 2022 19:59 Simberto wrote:On October 13 2022 19:44 a_ch wrote:On October 13 2022 17:51 Simberto wrote:On October 13 2022 16:50 a_ch wrote:On October 13 2022 16:25 Slydie wrote:On October 13 2022 09:08 a_ch wrote:On October 13 2022 08:39 StasisField wrote:
[quote]
1. Kwark isn't from the US, he merely lives here.
2. Kwark wasn't being racist. Reading comprehension is hard though, I know.
3. Even if he was, Sermokala didn't put their stamp of approval on what Kwark said so don't be all uppity when they call you out like they're being a hypocrite or contradicting themself.
4. People who follow fascist ideology are fascists, just as people who follow communist ideology are communists. Not a difficult concept to grasp. 1. -ok, didn't know. 2. It was. Claims like "russians have no concept of truth" or "Stalin broke the culture" (meaning it is some kind of a persistent effect) are 146% racist gems worthy of Hitler himself. 3. in my offensive post I wrote that this is not how I truly think of Americans, just an example of a racist bs. Its interesting though, how you and Sermokala reacted. Did you even read the post till the end? 4. To follow a fascist ideology you have at least to be a nazi and to follow a rule of a dictator. At least the first quality is not met in the case of Russian society. And seeing how eager you are at blaming Russians in all sins, you're much closer to that title. It is very easy to argue that Putin is in fact a dictator, for example as there is no way to remove him in free and fair elections. But then again, Russia has never had a leader who was removed by an election afaik, so some version of dictatorship is the norm. Fascism is a very problematic word to define, but "at least to be a nazi" is a wrong place to start. The very word as a political term originated in Italy, not in Germany. Both "fascism" and "nazism" get thrown around at anything people don't like or fear. Russians eagerly uses "nazism" that way, not the least about Ukrainians. If you are not far right yourself, "fascism" tends to include any "authoritarian, anti democratic, right-wing movement", which can certainly include the January 6th congress storming. As such, it will look different in each country and each era, If you don't want to be called a fascist, you can choose a narrower definition and to point how you differ from the original fascists, Mussolini and Franco. -yes, one definition (in lines with U.Eco) is vague and could be applied too indiscriminately; the other definition ("dictatorship of nationalists") is due to a Soviet writer Boris Strugatskiy - and he argues that this is the necessary and sufficient condition to have all the other usual features of fascism. So, by nazi I meant not the orginal NSDAP ones, but all sorts of nationalists; sorry if that was misleading Use the word nationalist instead of nazi then, those two are not the same. And it sounds to me as if current Russia fits that definition. It is a dictatorship, since Putin is in power, and there is no way to remove Putin from power. And it is definitively nationalist. And which nation is hated in Russia in this case? Let me guess, the Ukrainians - 1.5 million (UN data) of whom has fled to Russia after the start of the war? Those should be true masochists, to intentionally come to the place where'd they'll be hated Nationalism does not require hate. According to Oxford dictionary, a nationalist is: a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. Nothing about hate in there. Just Russia, Russia above everything else. And this is definitively the case, as can be seen by basically all of the rhetoric around this. Nevertheless, the obvious nation that Russia hates is the US/Nato? It seems as if the US is at fault for everything according to Kremlin propaganda. Especially the insidious evil act of allowing other nations to collectively defend against Russia is absolutely horrific, evil and aggressive. -Never met in my life a nationalist who'd not into (secretely) hating some other nations. Or maybe I wouldn't even notice him being a nationalist in this case.. Russia above what? My university best friend is from Vinnitsa, Western Ukraine; recently I've become a godfather of his son (bad irony, as he asked me exactly on 23th of Feb). One of the groups where I teach math consists of students from former USSR countries - and I don't even know which exact one, as those guys speek Russian well - so I visually cannot distinguish them from Russians. With regards to Ukrainians wanting to have their own state - only an imperic-driven idiot in Russia would like to deny it. I even endorsed for the 2014 Maidan revolt in the first place - before the new government has started to stir hatred in the fragile country. With regards to the USA - I think that for a very long time it has been a true world leader in most of the sciences - so why'd I hate it, if it has given the world and my profession so much? >>Especially the insidious evil act of allowing other nations to collectively defend against Russia is absolutely horrific, evil and aggressive I cannot understand, whether my writing is so bad (probably), or you guys read what you want, not what is actually written. The problem is not with helping Ukraine to defend, but being slow, indecisive and malicious. Even covering the sky in the spring would likely suffice to stop the war, but your governments failed it (btw, compare to Russia moving troops to Serbia in 1999 to stop NATO bombings). 15bn of military aid in more than half-year is like boiling a live frog in water, and the cost is higher on Ukrainians, as they trade what they have comparative advantage in - the soldiers. But after NATO has failed to intervene, you have no courage to push to stop the war; and instead promoting continuation, perhaps hoping for a possible public uprising of Russians uncomfortable with the war. There certainly is some, but if you think that we differ a lot in this sense from Ukrainians, who've already withstood four waves of mobilization and even preparing to start mobilizing women (initially planned at October 1st, but was postponed\cancelled in September) - youre dead wrong. Western guys like to act dump and wear the moral mask if it fits their interest. In the meantime the EU politicians acts as if they didn't know it before hand: https://saharareporters.com/2022/10/11/ukraine-war-us-taking-advantage-energy-crisis-exploit-eu-selling-gas-four-times-priceEU economy especially industry is destined for continuing the downfall road with the new energy price standard. Don't worry though this is just a short-term issues because the EU capitalists will move their invesment and operation elsewhere very fast. Biden has been welcoming them. US companies are fleecing us at least as hard as their national customers, yes. Capitalism unfortunately. But Germanys economy will still grow this year and is projected to head into a slight recession of 0.4% gdp in 2023. The energy price will regulate itself, unless the Saudis/OPEC+ want total energy war.
I'm not talking about a short-term consequence as you guys have the mass money printing capability so number doesn't mean much.
Opec oil production has returned back to pre-Covid time level so high energy price doesn't have anything to do with them.
Don't menace about war because you are not at the position to do it. Even the US only asked Opec+ to delay the cut until their mid-term election finished.
The EU-Russia enery cooperation divorce will raise the energy price up to a much higher level in the mid term and many impotant EU industry sections won't be competitive anymore. Low tech ones will move to Asia and high tech ones will move to US slowly but surely.
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United States42694 Posts
On October 14 2022 10:47 geod wrote:One event at a specific time and specific location is enough for you to shit-talk their whole history of thousand years? Very well played indeed!
500 years ago Ivan IV embarked on a specific policy of “Russofication” to wipe out the Tatar culture of the defeated Khanate of Kazan. 200 years ago Cossacks were displaced and their lands were given to Russian settlers to break them up as a unified bloc. 150 years ago Crimean Tatars were ethnically cleansed as part of Alexander IIs state policy of Russofication.
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On October 14 2022 11:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 10:47 geod wrote:One event at a specific time and specific location is enough for you to shit-talk their whole history of thousand years? Very well played indeed! 500 years ago Ivan IV embarked on a specific policy of “Russofication” to wipe out the Tatar culture of the defeated Khanate of Kazan. 200 years ago Cossacks were displaced and their lands were given to Russian settlers to break them up as a unified bloc. 150 years ago Crimean Tatars were ethnically cleansed as part of Alexander IIs state policy of Russofication.
Where are evidences for other minority groups?
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Canada11350 Posts
Before that, do you acknowledge that as evidence of an example of ethnic cleansing of a minority over the course of multiple periods of time? Or this the endless goal shift? Because if another group is brought up are you just going to ask for a third? And if a third is brought up, will you just ask for a fourth?
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On October 14 2022 12:39 geod wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 11:51 KwarK wrote:On October 14 2022 10:47 geod wrote:One event at a specific time and specific location is enough for you to shit-talk their whole history of thousand years? Very well played indeed! 500 years ago Ivan IV embarked on a specific policy of “Russofication” to wipe out the Tatar culture of the defeated Khanate of Kazan. 200 years ago Cossacks were displaced and their lands were given to Russian settlers to break them up as a unified bloc. 150 years ago Crimean Tatars were ethnically cleansed as part of Alexander IIs state policy of Russofication. Where are evidences for other minority groups?
I mean if you want to go through the history of Russian attempts to destroy the culture of the miniority populations under it you can just check out the Wikipedia page on it.
The finns went through two periods of it near the end of the Russian empire and declared independence at the end of the first World War.
It's much harder to find an example of a minority group Russia hasn't tried to genocide when it could.
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On October 14 2022 13:50 Falling wrote:
Before that, do you acknowledge that as evidence of an example of ethnic cleansing of a minority over the course of multiple periods of time? Or this the endless goal shift? Because if another group is brought up are you just going to ask for a third? And if a third is brought up, will you just ask for a fourth?
You should reread KwarK's generelized claim and you the common sense conclusion for yourself.
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EPT
