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On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/
Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitter
My Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation".
I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country.
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The scale of abandoned armor somewhere in Izyum. 14 units in total in a single place. Could be something like a spot to repair, but still it's impressive how much was left behind :O
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On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". Show nested quote +I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country.
Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking!
What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community.
And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia.
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On September 11 2022 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country. Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking! What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community. And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia.
Can you fucking stop being so combative with everyone? How about this: Ardias was wrong/mistaken.
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On September 11 2022 18:20 Dav1oN wrote:The scale of abandoned armor somewhere in Izyum. 14 units in total in a single place. Could be something like a spot to repair, but still it's impressive how much was left behind :O https://twitter.com/tinso_ww/status/1568880258631221249
There's 40 million worth of lethal aid for UA in that one video alone. And there's so much more circling around.
The RU 'retreat' from Izyum will constitute one of the largest single donations of lethal aid by a foreign country to UA.
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Well, it's not like this interview is entirely accurate either. From Google Translate:
Therefore, when they started accusing us that we were preparing, not preparing... They started saying something there... I can say that if we hadn't prepared, Russian tanks would already be in Warsaw, Prague and Berlin. We are now actually fighting modern fascism, which is the Putin regime.
There is 0% chance of Russian tanks entering these cities with NATO on the horizon. It's speech to boost morale internally, but we're outsiders so some statements should be taken with a grain of salt regardless if they come from Russia or Ukraine.
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Russian Federation610 Posts
On September 11 2022 17:37 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. I have a feeling Kadyrov is so insignificant that from time to time he decides to say something just to stay relevant. I mean the guy was considering retirement, then he explained it was just a "popularity poll". He says his next goal is to break the record of the longest ruling governor of a region. :D Source: https://www.rferl.org/a/chechnya-kadyrov-backtracks-departure/32020829.html
I wish that was true, however I seems that his hardline position of the war, PR action on Chechen troops and efforts of Chechnya in it (there is troop training center in Gudermes, where a lot of Russian volunteers went through), and active promotion of islam could give him a lot of support in this circles within Russia. Not enough for him to run for presidency after Putin of course, but to secure more influence on the matters of war and more profits for him and his surroundings - definetly.
On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". Show nested quote +I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country.
Agree, my bad, the site I took the quote from seem to went for the hype headline in referencing the interview.
Danilov, however, left the question on the end goals of the war open (from the end of the interview):
"I.S.: Yes, but then where will the AFU stop: in Crimea, in Moscow?
O.D.: The AFU will stop where our interests end. And it will depend on many circumstances."
Also with quotes like this being the main source of information about Russia I now understand the perception of Russians as wild barbarians not even being able to afford a ticket to Poland or Hungary.
"I'm sorry, but 75% of the people there don't have warm toilets. If you can't take care of your country, why do you keep coming here?!"
If we would be pissing outside during each of our winters, I guarantee that reproduction rate in Russia would be 0% in regions north and east of Moscow.
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On September 11 2022 18:49 Artesimo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country. Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking! What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community. And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia. Can you fucking stop being so combative with everyone? How about this: Ardias was wrong/mistaken.
He also lied about the "massacre in Odessa"...
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On September 11 2022 19:44 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 18:49 Artesimo wrote:On September 11 2022 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country. Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking! What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community. And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia. Can you fucking stop being so combative with everyone? How about this: Ardias was wrong/mistaken. He also lied about the "massacre in Odessa"...
I only vaguely recall that instance, but he was probably wrong about that. Lying implies that you are knowingly promoting something that is wrong, I don't recall an instance where Ardias did not admit being wrong when presented with sufficient evidence. It really helps a conversation if you don't immediately assume the other side must be lying. If I am not mistaken, you have been wrong about stuff in here, same as our disagreeable estonian. And when I presented him with sources that contradict him, I never called him a liar because people make mistakes. I am pretty sure you are one of the "polish hardliners" that SC-Shield was alluding to when calling out the conduct of some in this thread, maybe you should reflect on that. You don't get to brand people as liars, just because they have been wrong.
Especially when people agree that russian propaganda is extremely strong within russia, how can you then also turn around and immediately accuse anyone who you disagree with as acting in bad faith? You don't get to claim that russian are brainwashed by propaganda and also that every russian online is actively lying because there is no way it could just be a mistake/them being caught up in some of the fake news...
To call a few posts back: If you want to do that with some 0 Posts new account that jumps in sure, but with people that have an established presence in here and have shown to be willing to properly discuss their opinions while trying to source what they are saying, while also remaining civil despite repeated animosity? Its times to reflect on your behaviour at that point.
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Russian Federation610 Posts
On September 11 2022 19:44 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 18:49 Artesimo wrote:On September 11 2022 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country. Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking! What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community. And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia. Can you fucking stop being so combative with everyone? How about this: Ardias was wrong/mistaken. He also lied about the "massacre in Odessa"...
I got your position that time, 50 people burned themselves alive. After that we seemed to close the discussion and I said that I won't be discussing events prior to 2022 and information regarding war crimes and who commited them or when/where/why they were commited.
You have any particular reason to bring that up again?
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What's a "warm toilet"? A bathroom with access to hot water?
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Russian Federation610 Posts
On September 11 2022 08:41 Sermokala wrote:
So by silk gloves you are referring to the amount of troops committed to the fight. Is there a belief that the Russian economy can sustain mobilization with how isolated it is now from the global economy?
Are the Russian side of the info war being told that civilian infrastructure civilian buildings and the civilian population has been treated lightly and with minimal damage so far?
The nuclear power plants are already not providing power to Europe. We've seen air strikes and cruse missile strikes so im wondering what the next step proposed would be.
They aren't trying to rationalize nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction please tell me.
"Silk gloves" may refer to few things:
1) Overall attitute towards the war within our society. While there are news and TV shows regarding Ukraine and some banners in the cities (with weird slogans "For the Cause/This is a Cause" (Za delo/Eto Delo)), it's not like it's pouring at you from every corner. Kremlin officials seem to be unconcerned in public speeches and press-releases, Peskov (Putin's press secretary) delegates all questions about the war to MoD, MoD with monotonous Konashenkov's (Head of the Information Department) voice gives some weird (to the general consumer) numbers and places each day, Putin is opening big Ferris Wheel while front in Kharkov collapses etc. etc. No "Arise, the mighty land of ours, arise for mortal war" or anything like that, Kremlin tries to convince population that everything is under control, no ramping up everyone for the years of continious warfare.
2) Mobilization efforts. I was saying it in March, that friend of mine was denied entry when he tried. Somewhere by the May-June, when it became clear that the war will be long, MoD/Kremlin started to promote service more actively, but for some reason they started to form these weird regional battalions of different size and structure. Instead of simply sending new recruits for training to the permanent bases of existing brigades (conscripts and their commanders are stationed there), and then sending trained recruits to reinforce the BTGs of that or some other brigade on the front.
No partial mobilization as well, neither by region, nor by the readiness cathegory. Increase of the army size is scheduled on 01/01/2023, and even then conscription will begin only in April.
3) Conducting the war. I was mentioning that earlier as well, both sides seem to not cross some red lines (though AFU are becoming bolder in that regard). For UA it was not attacking the Russian territory directly (at least not more than occasional strikes on some border checkpoints of villages), for RU - not attacking UA government and major infrastructure elements. Reasons for that are speculated widely, so each can draw it's own conclusions.
What Russia could have done instead:
1. Government. When US invaded Iraq in 2003, they tried to bomb Saddam himself first. I understand that Russia may did not want that at the start - if you want to put your own President, why bomb his residence? - but after it became clear that Ukraine won't be surrendering, why no attack on Parliament or President offices? Though making Zelensky a martyr for the West and Ukraine and completely cutting off the slightest perspective of negotiation with the West clearly may be unwise - but then you shouldn't have promised "strikes on the decision-making centers" if you could not deliver. That's why this phrase became a local meme.
2. Energy. Of course, since more than half of the UA power being nuclear it's not good to hit the plants directly - but as far as I understand, you don't have to. Hitting transformation and energy supply infrastructure may be enough to shut down the plant, because (again, it was my understanding from the discussion around ZAPP) if you don't deliver energy produced in the reactor somewhere, you have to shut it down so it doesn't go wild. Imagine what would happen if all (or at least part) of Western Ukraine would go black, even for a few days.
3. Rails. IIRC more than half of the UA train fleet is electric. It can't run if traction substations for the rail are destroyed. There were few hits at them in May, but then this practice stopped for some reason, but it would hinder AFU transportation capabilities, forcing them to rely only on fueled trains.
4. Bridges. Ukraine is cut by Dniepr in half. There are, IIRC, 17 major bridges through it. AFRF showed that it is capable of hitting them (Zatoka bridge in Odessa, one of the bridges in Zhaporozhie and one in Dnipro, I believe). AFRF could easily send 10-15 missiles per bridge, and even if only half of them would have hit, it still would be very troublesome (if not outright impossible) for any vehicle, military of civilian, to use it. But nothing similar to what AFU did with Kherson and Kahovka was done.
5. Oil and fuel. The only part where AFRF were conducting repeated strikes, but according to the sattelite imagery of the aftermath - not nearly enough missiles were used for that.
On September 11 2022 20:30 Sent. wrote:
What's a "warm toilet"? A bathroom with access to hot water?
In old Soviet (and pre-Soviet) wooden houses with furnaces as the heat source toilets were generally placed a bit further from it, since furnace was placed on concrete/brick foundation, and toilet was placed above cesspool, so cesspool wouldn't be exactly under the house. Hence it wasn't warmed much by the furnace, hence it was "cold toilet" (as opposed to "warm toilet", which is heated). Been in those, not exactly a pleasant experience when it's -30 C outside.
Thing is, Russia is almost 75% urbanized.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/urban-population#:~:text=Russia urban population for 2021,a 0.16% increase from 2018.
And thanks to commies, vast majority of urban population lives in brick/concrete houses with centralized heating. Where toilet is, in contrast, placed completely within the apartment, so no part of it is being outside wall, and toilet, per our sanitary regualtions, is supposed to be the warmest place in the house.
As for the rural areas - people who build new houses there, are doing it in western style, with frame, timber and
aerated concrete being the most popular technologies, and they, of course, use water/electrical heating batteries, so toilet is warm as well. Plus there are also brick/concrete buildings here, and some wooden houses (multi-apartment) also have centralized heating. Though of course we still have people, elderly mostly, who live in those "cold toilet" houses (though if it's private property, many insulate them from outside).
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On September 11 2022 20:53 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 08:41 Sermokala wrote:
So by silk gloves you are referring to the amount of troops committed to the fight. Is there a belief that the Russian economy can sustain mobilization with how isolated it is now from the global economy?
Are the Russian side of the info war being told that civilian infrastructure civilian buildings and the civilian population has been treated lightly and with minimal damage so far?
The nuclear power plants are already not providing power to Europe. We've seen air strikes and cruse missile strikes so im wondering what the next step proposed would be.
They aren't trying to rationalize nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction please tell me. 3. Rails. IIRC more than half of the UA train fleet is electric. It can't run if traction substations for the rail are destroyed. There were few hits at them in May, but then this practice stopped for some reason, but it would hinder AFU transportation capabilities, forcing them to rely only on fueled trains. 4. Bridges. Ukraine is cut by Dniepr in half. There are, IIRC, 17 major bridges through it. AFRF showed that it is capable of hitting them (Zatoka bridge in Odessa, one of the bridges in Zhaporozhie and one in Dniepr, I believe). AFRF could easily send 10-15 missiles per bridge, and even if only half of them would have hit, it still would be very troublesome (if not outright impossible) for any vehicle, military of civilian, to use it. But nothing similar to what AFU did with Kherson and Kahovka was done.
I think 4. is fairly easy to explain, russia needs those bridges to advance, if they destroyed them it would increase ukrainian defence significantly and they were probably hoping to be able to seize some of those bridges in case of a ukrainian retreat before they can get blown up. 3 Might go into the same direction, infrastructure being in place makes advancements easier once territory is captures. Though that doesn't really apply to the west of ukraine where capture was not realistic anytime soon.
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Russian Federation610 Posts
On September 11 2022 21:14 Artesimo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 20:53 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 08:41 Sermokala wrote:
So by silk gloves you are referring to the amount of troops committed to the fight. Is there a belief that the Russian economy can sustain mobilization with how isolated it is now from the global economy?
Are the Russian side of the info war being told that civilian infrastructure civilian buildings and the civilian population has been treated lightly and with minimal damage so far?
The nuclear power plants are already not providing power to Europe. We've seen air strikes and cruse missile strikes so im wondering what the next step proposed would be.
They aren't trying to rationalize nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction please tell me. 3. Rails. IIRC more than half of the UA train fleet is electric. It can't run if traction substations for the rail are destroyed. There were few hits at them in May, but then this practice stopped for some reason, but it would hinder AFU transportation capabilities, forcing them to rely only on fueled trains. 4. Bridges. Ukraine is cut by Dniepr in half. There are, IIRC, 17 major bridges through it. AFRF showed that it is capable of hitting them (Zatoka bridge in Odessa, one of the bridges in Zhaporozhie and one in Dniepr, I believe). AFRF could easily send 10-15 missiles per bridge, and even if only half of them would have hit, it still would be very troublesome (if not outright impossible) for any vehicle, military of civilian, to use it. But nothing similar to what AFU did with Kherson and Kahovka was done. I think 4. is fairly easy to explain, russia needs those bridges to advance, if they destroyed them it would increase ukrainian defence significantly and they were probably hoping to be able to seize some of those bridges in case of a ukrainian retreat before they can get blown up. 3 Might go into the same direction, infrastructure being in place makes advancements easier once territory is captures. Though that doesn't really apply to the west of ukraine where capture was not realistic anytime soon.
That was an argument, but it was less and less satisfactory the longer the war dragged on, since it was apparent that RU won't reach those bridges any time soon, it had trouble advancing few hundred kilometers away from them. We also had Kherson area secured exactly for that, to provide a bridgehead for further offensive without the need to cross the Dniepr. AFU are doing exactly that, destroying Khreson and Kahovka bridges, knowing that they still could advance on the ground from Zaporozhie area.
Also I doubt that these bridges could be of use even if AFRF reached Zaporozhie and Dnipro, since these bridges are in the middile of the cities. To advance through them with resistance on the other bank would be suicidal.
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On September 11 2022 19:58 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 19:44 maybenexttime wrote:On September 11 2022 18:49 Artesimo wrote:On September 11 2022 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country. Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking! What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community. And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia. Can you fucking stop being so combative with everyone? How about this: Ardias was wrong/mistaken. He also lied about the "massacre in Odessa"... I got your position that time, 50 people burned themselves alive. After that we seemed to close the discussion and I said that I won't be discussing events prior to 2022 and information regarding war crimes and who commited them or when/where/why they were commited. You have any particular reason to bring that up again?
After that you stuck to the bullshit Kremlin story despite the evidence it was nonsense.
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If true then this would mean Ukraine was about to get trained/supplied with extremely dangerous Tanks. Or at the very least it was being discussed. I believe they are already being supplied APC's though via Spain, and Netherlands(?)...
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There is like 0.00001% chance of Ukraine going beyond the national border. Nobody wants that and they will earn nothing from it. Hell, I don't really think that they can enter Crimea, either.
Ukraine's end game is gaining a position that will give them enough leverage to negotiate positive outcome for them - regaining all territories in the state of 2013.
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History was made. Ukraine has successfully executed the biggest counter offensive by territorial gains since WW2. Just like that with most people abroad including myself not being really confident.
Kudos to the people of Ukraine again, that's an amazing success so far and helps a lot with the coming propaganda battles.
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Russian Federation610 Posts
On September 11 2022 23:42 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2022 19:58 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 19:44 maybenexttime wrote:On September 11 2022 18:49 Artesimo wrote:On September 11 2022 18:23 Ghanburighan wrote:On September 11 2022 18:08 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:35 Ardias wrote:On September 11 2022 17:22 Vinekh wrote:On September 11 2022 17:10 Ardias wrote:
1) “Ukraine will no longer be satisfied with Russia’s “surrender” of Crimea and Donbas, or reparations for the “invasion.” Kyiv, together with Western allies, will seek "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation" - Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Oleksiy Danilov
Well, I guess this war will be long. UA seem to be very eager after their success in Kharkov region.
2) Meanwhile Kadyrov published a speech in his tg channel. It's long, but I'll pick the main point:
"If today or tomorrow changes are not made in the conduct of a special military operation, I will be forced to contact the country's leadership in order to explain to them the situation on earth. She is very interesting, “awesome” I would say. "
Other parts of the speech included promises to return the lost territories, to talk with military correspondents so they would be less critical of the MoD and government, assurances that AFRF would move up to Odessa etc.
So overall it seems that he is trying to take even more leading role in the war and get points for himself out of this defeat.
3) Reports are coming that last working reactor on ZAPP is being shut down. Source on the first one? Don't care about Kadyrov's nonsense. https://www.unian.net/war/nashe-zadanie-lishit-rossiyu-zhelaniya-napadat-na-svoih-sosedey-sekretar-snbo-11974419.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=unian_channelI do, last thing I want to see is Kadyrov's rise to power in Russia. And you probably won't like this as well. His popularity grew tenfold since the start of the war/ Here is the full interview posted on Danilov's twitterMy Ukranian is not the best, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't say "complete surrender and demilitarization of the Russian Federation". I.S.: How do you see the end of this war? And does the fact that, according to the latest polls, the level of support for the war by the Russians is decreasing, helps Ukraine.
O.D.: The end of the war is the liberation of all our territories. But we must understand that if Russia remains as it is, it is only a matter of time before it can start another war. Therefore, our task is to make Russia so that it does not even have the desire to think that it can attack its neighbors, especially in the way it has done in relation to our country. Ardias lied to make Ukraine look worse, shocking! What's said here is probably just referring to isolation and sanctions on RU until it returns to the fold of the law abiding international community. And that's an option, just see how quickly Germany was accepted and integrated post ww2. But it requires real change inside Russia. Can you fucking stop being so combative with everyone? How about this: Ardias was wrong/mistaken. He also lied about the "massacre in Odessa"... I got your position that time, 50 people burned themselves alive. After that we seemed to close the discussion and I said that I won't be discussing events prior to 2022 and information regarding war crimes and who commited them or when/where/why they were commited. You have any particular reason to bring that up again? After that you stuck to the bullshit Kremlin story despite the evidence it was nonsense.
I hope you are aware of a definition "agree to disagree". I respected your and others opinion on the matter and, as I said, refrained from discussing matters about massacres, atrocities, rapes etc. as well as events prior to 2022, no matter what views I had on the subject.
So I'll repeat: what's your reason for digging up the axe that was buried half a year ago? We seemed to have reasonable discussions on different subjects after that.
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EPT
