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Jankisa
Croatia1795 Posts
I haven't heard about anyone shooting back in months, except, predictably, staging terrorist attacks as a means of asymmetrical response outside of Gaza. It's so fucked, and with ground invasion anyone who couldn't leave is a target for them, it's fucking horrific. | ||
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Billyboy
2545 Posts
On September 16 2025 15:47 pmp10 wrote: Assault on remains of Gaza is now starting. It's still not clear if it will be quick or final but after Doha there is no one to negotiate with anyway. None of the negotiators were injured let alone killed in the Doha attack. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
Brussels to propose sanctions against Israel as Gaza war escalates. The European Commission will present sanctions against Israel on Wednesday, while the Israeli military presses ahead with a ground offensive in Gaza City. “Tomorrow, during the College meeting, commissioners will be adopting a package of measures on Israel,” Commission spokesperson Paula Pinho said Tuesday during a briefing. The plan includes suspending certain trade provisions under the EU-Israel Euro-Mediterranean Agreement and sanctioning extremist government ministers and violent settlers. https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-propose-sanction-israel-gaza-war/ | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:10 Billyboy wrote: None of the negotiators were injured let alone killed in the Doha attack. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. If Israel has shown they will attempt to kill you while you’re over in Qatar, are you liable to stick around as a negotiator? | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1795 Posts
Would you go to a meeting with other negotiators to devise a strategy after you were basically targeted at that same meeting while all AA assets in the 1000 km radius were stood down, by both the sponsor of negotiations and the host country? Even if Israel botched the assassination of these people, that doesn't mean that they didn't successfully thwart any attempt at future negotiations. These guys are now underground and they would be crazy to show up, especially in Qatar. No other country is offering to host them, no one is even mentioning hostages or negotiations anymore. | ||
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Billyboy
2545 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:19 WombaT wrote: If Israel has shown they will attempt to kill you while you’re over in Qatar, are you liable to stick around as a negotiator? I'm not sure there is a place that someone can go and feel safe after planning, organizing, and executing Oct 7th. Israel has a long history of going everywhere and anywhere to get those type of people, hell movies have been made about it. On September 17 2025 01:22 Jankisa wrote: Where will these negotiations take place, exactly? Would you go to a meeting with other negotiators to devise a strategy after you were basically targeted at that same meeting while all AA assets in the 1000 km radius were stood down, by both the sponsor of negotiations and the host country? Even if Israel botched the assassination of these people, that doesn't mean that they didn't successfully thwart any attempt at future negotiations. These guys are now underground and they would be crazy to show up, especially in Qatar. No other country is offering to host them, no one is even mentioning hostages or negotiations anymore. Who knows, Teams maybe? I do not think they much matter, Israel has made it clear they will not take deal that keeps Hamas in power teaching hate and planning future attacks. And Hamas has made it clear that they do not care if every Palestinian dies they are not giving up power. We also do not really know who was killed and what role they played. Both sides have not released a lot (that I've seen) we know that there was 5 "hamas leadership" people killed and one Qatar security guy. They were "under ground" before, it was meant to be a secret where they were. As it is with all the Iranian nuclear scientists and various generals that got crossed off. Why would anyone want them? Why should people host them? Maybe they can go hide in Iran like Assad is doing in Russia. Or use their millions to hide. But I'm sure Mossad is hunting. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
You started saying that well, the negotiators weren’t killed so what’s the big deal? Then when people pointed out that attempting to do so by itself is probably going to preclude attempts at negoation, it’s something else now? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 17 2025 01:22 Jankisa wrote: Where will these negotiations take place, exactly? Would you go to a meeting with other negotiators to devise a strategy after you were basically targeted at that same meeting while all AA assets in the 1000 km radius were stood down, by both the sponsor of negotiations and the host country? Even if Israel botched the assassination of these people, that doesn't mean that they didn't successfully thwart any attempt at future negotiations. These guys are now underground and they would be crazy to show up, especially in Qatar. No other country is offering to host them, no one is even mentioning hostages or negotiations anymore. I’m not personally a member Hamas, depending on how vindictive I currently feel when trying to put myself into that headspace, I’d just release the hostages, or kill them all. Pragmatically, they’re not any kind of leverage, the Israeli state has shown they don’t actually care about the actual hostages. They don’t have any power, Hamas miscalculated in thinking they would. Indiscriminate bombing, and discriminate bombing attempting to kill Hamas’ negotiating team tells its own tale. | ||
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Billyboy
2545 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:09 WombaT wrote: So what’s your point? You started saying that well, the negotiators weren’t killed so what’s the big deal? Then when people pointed out that attempting to do so by itself is probably going to preclude attempts at negoation, it’s something else now? My point was that he got something wrong and I corrected it. You then invented a point for me and am now confused by response. I don't even bother correcting a lot of the blatantly wrong information that is stated as fact here, but this was an easy and quick one. I think if people bothered to learn the actual information their presumptions would have a much better chance of being awful. Like you don't even know if they were attempting to kill the negotiators, or who these people even were within Hamas and yet conclusions are being made at rapid speeds over and over. Drone pointed it out in the other thread, but this rush to conclusions is so dangerous because we all have confirmation bias so when we do it, we all looks for reasons that we are right. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1795 Posts
Who is posting and what wrong information? What is the point of what Israel is doing in Gaza now? Are you supportive of them knocking down high rises and displacing another million of people again? We don't know if they were attempting the negotiators? Jesus, man, how obtuse can you be, they were targeting a meeting where they met to discuss the latest proposal, this was confirmed by the statements from Israeli leadership, why are you trying to gaslight here? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:22 Billyboy wrote: My point was that he got something wrong and I corrected it. You then invented a point for me and am now confused by response. I don't even bother correcting a lot of the blatantly wrong information that is stated as fact here, but this was an easy and quick one. I think if people bothered to learn the actual information their presumptions would have a much better chance of being awful. Like you don't even know if they were attempting to kill the negotiators, or who these people even were within Hamas and yet conclusions are being made at rapid speeds over and over. Drone pointed it out in the other thread, but this rush to conclusions is so dangerous because we all have confirmation bias so when we do it, we all looks for reasons that we are right. Ok so Israel struck Qatar, but weren’t trying to hit the Hamas head honchos involved in negotiations? You really believe that? And no, you didn’t correct Jankisa at all. Your ‘correction’ was that if negotiators haven’t been killed then that’s all fine and dandy. His, and my contention is the attempt to kill them precludes negotiations. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1795 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On September 17 2025 07:03 Jankisa wrote: I believe he meant he was correcting pmp10 on "there's no one to negotiate with". I stand corrected on that | ||
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Billyboy
2545 Posts
All your ridiculous strawman whenever someone does not hate Israel hard enough, I did not even remotely say anything good (or bad) about them. Stop getting mad over nothing than making rage posts that are dumb as dirt. Like seriously from this post., the one I actually made not whatever fucked up shit you made up in your head, did you logically walk to "this guy is supportive of Israel destroying high rises". Please walk me through it. On September 16 2025 22:10 Billyboy wrote: None of the negotiators were injured let alone killed in the Doha attack. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia1795 Posts
PM Netanyahu and DM Katz said the decision to attack the Hamas leadership in Qatar was made after the terror attack in Jerusalem that left six people dead. This is from the Jerusalem Post link I posted earlier. According to reports, the intended targets included several senior Hamas figures: Khalil al-Hayya, Zaher Jabarin, Muhammad Ismail Darwish, and Khaled Mashal.[11][12][5] Those targeted were involved in negotiations for a ceasefire to the Gaza war and an Israeli-Palestinian prisoner-hostage exchange. This is from wikipedia. You can, as you often do, insult people who disagree with you, but you are throwing shit out there that makes no sense in order to, again, gaslight and play defense for a very fucked up regime. I think you are, deep down, aware of how fucked up it is that you are doing this so this makes you incoherent and aggressive in your rhetoric, it's pretty sad. | ||
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pmp10
3400 Posts
On September 17 2025 03:50 Billyboy wrote: I'm not sure there is a place that someone can go and feel safe after planning, organizing, and executing Oct 7th. Israel has a long history of going everywhere and anywhere to get those type of people, hell movies have been made about it. Sure there is, but moving negotiations to Istanbul takes time. If the assault on Gaza is serious then it will be over long before you can start talks about moving the talks. And while on the subject of Doha: The great Arab outrage results in little action. Another boundary successfully tested and overcome. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1795 Posts
On September 17 2025 20:32 pmp10 wrote: Sure there is, but moving negotiations to Istanbul takes time. If the assault on Gaza is serious then it will be over long before you can start talks about moving the talks. And while on the subject of Doha: The great Arab outrage results in little action. Another boundary successfully tested and overcome. If Türkiye decides to host these Hamas guys and hold negotiations there, they will be 100 % safe. Nethyanahu is a horrible warmongering monster, but he's not stupid. He's not going to bomb a NATO member, and even if they weren't in NATO, their army is serious, well equipped and already has a motivation to make moves. I mean, I'd wager that most of what Nethyanahu is doing in Syria is more aimed at Türkiye then Syria itself. He's a bully, he likes attacking people who can't (or won't because of the USA) fight back, Erdogan would absolutely jump at the opportunity to have even a cold war with Israel, he desperately needs external enemies. | ||
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Billyboy
2545 Posts
On September 17 2025 17:21 Jankisa wrote: All of this info is out, you are just deliberately and intentionally obtuse and continuing to try to gaslight this thread. This is from the Jerusalem Post link I posted earlier. This is from wikipedia. You can, as you often do, insult people who disagree with you, but you are throwing shit out there that makes no sense in order to, again, gaslight and play defense for a very fucked up regime. I think you are, deep down, aware of how fucked up it is that you are doing this so this makes you incoherent and aggressive in your rhetoric, it's pretty sad. So, what I have been saying is that no negotiators have died, but that 5 members of "Hamas Leadership" and one member of Qatar security service have died. That is what your sources confirm. So maybe go re read what I've posted, without the made up angry shit in your head and get back to me. On September 17 2025 20:32 pmp10 wrote: Sure there is, but moving negotiations to Istanbul takes time. If the assault on Gaza is serious then it will be over long before you can start talks about moving the talks. And while on the subject of Doha: The great Arab outrage results in little action. Another boundary successfully tested and overcome. Talks have been pointless for a long time and the main players know it. This is why we have multiple agreements made by negotiators only to have nothing actually happen. Israel's position is that Hamas can not remain in power in Gaza, no matter the cost to the Gazan civilians or their infrastructure. Hamas's position is that they give no fucks about the Gazan civilians or their infrastructure and they are not giving up power or even willing to pretend that they are not solely focused the destruction of Israel and death of all its people, Jews, Christians, wrong think Muslims, atheists whoever. And well this thread has been focused on how Israel bombing some Hamas members in Qatar is a obvious sign that they don't want peace with Hamas, some how it was completely missed that Hamas organizing and executing a terror attack in Jerusalem against only civilian targets is an obvious sign that they do not want peace. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
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