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Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 479

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
PremoBeats
Profile Joined March 2024
495 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-09-12 19:38:34
3 hours ago
#9561
Of course you don't care if I answer your questions or are interested in answering mine. It is clear that you are not here to actually engage but are simply trying to set traps and "show my true colors".

But you didn’t actually “show” anything except that you’re committed to an absolutist framing as well as wording (evil) that I’ve rejected from the start and never used. When I listed positive Palestinian traits, that wasn’t me “admitting” anything - it was me answering in good faith from my framework, where cultures are judged on a spectrum of traits rather than flipped wholesale into “evil” or “not evil.”
The way you then dismissed those positives as irrelevant only proves my point: your argument only works by smuggling in the assumption that any evil trait cancels out all good ones. That’s the fallacy of composition I’ve been calling out from the start.
I believe cultures have multiple traits, some humane, some inhumane, and we evaluate them comparatively. That’s different from your absolutist approach - and that’s where our disagreement actually lies and where you try to set a trap.

Plus, it seems like it is actually you who doesn't think too highly of Palestinian culture yourself, the way you speak about it in these past posts. Who would've guessed, huh?
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12256 Posts
3 hours ago
#9562
On September 13 2025 04:37 PremoBeats wrote:
Of course you don't care if I answer your questions or are interested in answering mine. It is clear that you are not here to actually engage but are simply trying to set traps and "show my true colors".


Yeah, I know. I'm glad it worked.
No will to live, no wish to die
Ze'ev
Profile Joined May 2025
63 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-09-12 19:45:12
3 hours ago
#9563
On September 12 2025 08:38 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2025 08:27 Nebuchad wrote:
On September 12 2025 07:29 KwarK wrote:
On September 12 2025 03:42 Nebuchad wrote:
On September 12 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:
On September 12 2025 03:16 Nebuchad wrote:
On September 12 2025 03:05 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't. The post you quoted portrays my view. And I think it is correct, otherwise I wouldn't type it out.
On top - as a separate issue-, you misrepresented/paraphrased my view (which I hold and think is correct) as me saying that Palestinians are evil people with evil values (which I don't think). I don't hold that view, that you project onto me, hence I reject it.


Explain the difference between saying the West is morally superior to Palestine and saying Palestinians are evil.

Not the person you asked but surely the difference is evident based on the meanings of the words used. They're different words with different meanings and so the difference between their meanings is the difference between their meanings.


I can't imagine that I found your posting attractive when you had good politics, that's one of my biggest regrets.

Assume a person imagines Palestine to be good and the West to be even gooder. They would imagine the West as superior without Palestine being evil.

Superior is a relative judgement, it places A above B in a subjective ranking. Evil is a categorical judgement. It places B in a box, absent any need for A.

The difference between the two is that they're different words which describe different kinds of judgements. They're just different. They’re simply not synonyms. The difference between them is evident from the different meanings.

Is there perhaps another meaning to your question that I'm not understanding? It feels like you're asking someone to explain the difference between 2pm and "later". One is categorical, one is relative.


As a person with (presumably) the capacity to assert the probability of different propositions, do you reckon that it's likely that someone who is talking about the level of morality of Palestinians, in the context of defending Israel's actions in Palestine, is trying to say that Palestinians are good people, but not as good as people in the West?

It depends on the individual and their outlook and level of misanthropy. I think most people think most people are fundamentally good, or at least capable of being good. It’s quite unusual to go full Gregory House hating people. Palestinians deserve an awful lot of grace given what has been done to them.
I mean: in an accurate rendition of history, Palestinians are analogous to white people. They were part of a larger group which created an imperialistic and supremacist project and abused the minorities around them viciously for centuries. Later on, one of these minority groups was able to establish a state and all of the local white nations attempted to exterminate them, used religious ideology to cast themselves as superior and their enemies as devils/subhuman, and refused to ever countenance any realistic proposals for peace. Or barely ever. Yeah, I can understand why the people are crazy by virtue of their conflict with Israel, the problem with that line of reasoning though is that its bullshit. The Arab world has been religiously, racially, culturally intolerant for centuries while advocating for Empire and conquest for centuries.

That doesnt justify war crimes or dehumanization against them (fuck, im white, im clearly not for slaughtering people due to their crazy history and deeply flawed society), but to absolve them of their belief system 'because of what happened to them' is both condescending and historically illiterate. Lets treat Arab societies like they are fucking adults and hold them accountable for what they've done and who they are. Palestinians are a big part of the reason why Palestinians are in the mess that they are.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42930 Posts
2 hours ago
#9564
On September 13 2025 04:45 Ze'ev wrote:
That doesnt justify war crimes or dehumanization against them (fuck, im white, im clearly not for slaughtering people due to their crazy history and deeply flawed society), but to absolve them of their belief system 'because of what happened to them' is both condescending and historically illiterate. Lets treat Arab societies like they are fucking adults and hold them accountable for what they've done and who they are. Palestinians are a big part of the reason why Palestinians are in the mess that they are.

Nah, that's a dumb take.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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