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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.
It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.
Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.
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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On November 28 2021 03:31 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2021 03:18 teeel141 wrote:On November 28 2021 03:11 ChristianS wrote:
Do you know how they were testing whether you had asymptomatic infection last year? They tested whether you have antibodies against the virus. Because you still develop antibodies to the virus, because you still develop immunity. There’s arguments about whether that immunity is as robust or w/e, but someone with asymptomatic infection will still do better against repeat infection than someone with no immunity at all.
I’m not actually sure what the moderation threshold for misinformation in the covid thread is, but “asymptomatic people don’t develop immunity” might be approaching it? Yes there are some short term antibodies but no long term immunity and no memory. I think those antibodies are gone after 6 weeks. Took two seconds of googling (from Nature):Show nested quote + There is evidence for significantly higher levels of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein-specific antibodies in samples from individuals with symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with samples from individuals who had asymptomatic infections7, as well as a more sustained antibody titre that was still detectable at 7 months after infection51; from a lower starting titre, individuals with asymptomatic infections were more likely to have reverted to being seronegative. We conducted a long-term study of a cohort of health-care workers through a programme of regular PCR testing, which allowed us to map comparative immunity in individuals with symptomatic and asymptomatic presentation. In that study, we found that titres of neutralizing antibodies were sustained at a similarly high, protective level at 4 months after infection, irrespective of symptomatic or asymptomatic disease Note that seronegative doesn’t mean not immune, it just means the neutralizing antibodies are gone. You don’t keep those around for every immunity forever, your body remembers how to make them and builds them again when needed. TL;DR: asymptomatic infection might produce less robust immunity but those individuals are still protected against future infection, which is what immunity is. More fundamentally: immunity is a good thing and you should want more people to have it.
Healthcare workers might just be getting constantly exposed to the virus so thats why their antibodies would remain for a long time? I might be wrong so il try to look into it.
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Also the study is from October 2021 and doesn't mention if the healthcare workers are vaccinated or unvaccinated.
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On November 28 2021 03:24 maybenexttime wrote:Teeel141, you keep making all those false claims. Don't you get tired? Another one you've made was that asymptomatic infections make up the majority of cases. That's blatantly not true. We've known that for over a year now...
Also the "no memory" statement is no true. The immune system is not absolute, but there is a "memory" function which makes antibody production quicker next time there is a similar infection, and it can last upto a lifetime.
Check out the "Kurtzgezagt" video series on YouTube. The immune system is absolutely amazing. I was blown away by how we are actually able to create antibodies for anything, including ourselves.
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On November 28 2021 03:55 teeel141 wrote:
Also the study is from October 2021 and doesn't mention if the healthcare workers are vaccinated or unvaccinated.
If you clicked through to the Nature article, it’s a meta-analysis of a variety of studies on the subject. Maybe the quote I should have pulled is this:
Taken together, data from serological studies show that all individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 can mount a good but heterogenous antibody response, irrespective of whether they are symptomatic or asymptomatic. However, we still lack consensus as to whether symptomatic disease is associated with a more sustained level of neutralizing antibodies.
Again, the more fundamental problem with your premise is that if asymptomatic infections didn’t confer immunity, that would be a bad thing! Immunity is good! I know people who got Covid after getting vaccinated and they might not be alive if they weren’t vaccinated!
On November 28 2021 03:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2021 03:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 28 2021 03:11 ChristianS wrote:
Do you know how they were testing whether you had asymptomatic infection last year? They tested whether you have antibodies against the virus. Because you still develop antibodies to the virus, because you still develop immunity. There’s arguments about whether that immunity is as robust or w/e, but someone with asymptomatic infection will still do better against repeat infection than someone with no immunity at all.
I’m not actually sure what the moderation threshold for misinformation in the covid thread is, but “asymptomatic people don’t develop immunity” might be approaching it? I'm just the husband of a microbiologist, but even I can see that is over the misinformation threshold. That is downright false info and should be deleted. I think Christians refutations are much better than deleting the statements in terms of 'hindering the spread of misinformation'.
Happy to do it, but I raised the question because the thread has had somewhat more rigorous requirements on sourcing than are being met here, no? I read that claim and I was 50/50 on whether it was reportable.
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On November 26 2021 10:26 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2021 06:31 Artisreal wrote:
I think every variant can be caught more than once. Delta is so prevalent, that it surpasses every other variant most places. Just ask JimmyC, maybe he knows which strains his brother (?) has caught already? Was it three times he's gotten the virus? The mohdoo and I think maybe a cousin?
my bad!
On November 26 2021 14:45 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2021 14:21 BlackJack wrote:On November 26 2021 09:22 maybenexttime wrote:On November 26 2021 07:18 BlackJack wrote:On November 26 2021 00:11 Laurens wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Vaccinated people can also spread COVID.
Belgium has been putting some serious pressure on getting vaccinated and in Flanders we've reached an 81.27% vaccination rate. 92.74% for 18+ population. We're among the best in Europe with these numbers, and vastly better than Brussels/Wallonia, the other regions in Belgium.
Alas we're also about to go in lockdown, seems like high vaccination numbers don't mean much. 20.000+ new infections each day.
Now all the vaccinated people are about to be vaccinated a 3rd time. I wonder where it will end?
I myself am vaccinated and don't mind getting my booster shot, I'm just skeptical of politicians pointing fingers at unvaccinated people, the data we have does not show that all our problems are due to unvaccinated ppl imo. If more countries like Austria start mandating a vaccine, they'll soon no longer be able to use the unvaccinated population as a scapegoat for the worsening COVID situation, I wonder who/what they will target next. It's just going to be the people that haven't gotten their 3rd shot or 4th shot or 5th shot. The pandemic will end as soon as everyone is fully vaccinated. The catch is that the definition of fully vaccinated will change as soon we start to get close to the target. The donkey never actually gets to reach the carrot at the end of the stick. Yeah, the world government will keep moving the goalposts. What they really want is to take away our freedoms. Give me a break. You sound like a lunatic. Back in the real world there is an ongoing pandemic. It will end when it will end. It's not a matter of some world government arbitrarily announcing it. What does that mean "it will end when it will end" When enough people have immunity or are dead. Most people you are getting mad at are trying to maximise the former in the safest possible way.
ok wow, I know you're right when adressing a significant amount of people.
this makes me incredibly sad.
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On November 28 2021 03:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2021 03:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 28 2021 03:11 ChristianS wrote:
Do you know how they were testing whether you had asymptomatic infection last year? They tested whether you have antibodies against the virus. Because you still develop antibodies to the virus, because you still develop immunity. There’s arguments about whether that immunity is as robust or w/e, but someone with asymptomatic infection will still do better against repeat infection than someone with no immunity at all.
I’m not actually sure what the moderation threshold for misinformation in the covid thread is, but “asymptomatic people don’t develop immunity” might be approaching it? I'm just the husband of a microbiologist, but even I can see that is over the misinformation threshold. That is downright false info and should be deleted. I think Christians refutations are much better than deleting the statements in terms of 'hindering the spread of misinformation'.
100%. I'd rather become more knowledgeable by reading ChristianS posts than just read --Nuked-- and learn nothing.
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On November 28 2021 09:16 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2021 03:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 28 2021 03:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 28 2021 03:11 ChristianS wrote:
Do you know how they were testing whether you had asymptomatic infection last year? They tested whether you have antibodies against the virus. Because you still develop antibodies to the virus, because you still develop immunity. There’s arguments about whether that immunity is as robust or w/e, but someone with asymptomatic infection will still do better against repeat infection than someone with no immunity at all.
I’m not actually sure what the moderation threshold for misinformation in the covid thread is, but “asymptomatic people don’t develop immunity” might be approaching it? I'm just the husband of a microbiologist, but even I can see that is over the misinformation threshold. That is downright false info and should be deleted. I think Christians refutations are much better than deleting the statements in terms of 'hindering the spread of misinformation'. 100%. I'd rather become more knowledgeable by reading ChristianS posts than just read --Nuked-- and learn nothing.
the first time for sure. the second time maybe. the third time doubtful. but how up to how many times are we now that christians has to refute the same drivel?
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Odd to have a moderator decide that it's okay for someone to break the rules because another user takes the time out of his day to refute anti-vaxx nonsense time after time again.
On top of that, not just the content is questionable, where you could argue subjectivity - posting twitter crap without context etc is a simple rule that doesn't seem to apply anymore either.
I gotta commend ChristianS here, he's much more patient than i could ever be (and clearly much more knowledgeable than most of us here as well on this topic), but to argue that it's okay to break the rules because another user wastes time and effort to correct a conspiracy theorist is insane.
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Northern Ireland25506 Posts
People can be wrong, it’s not an area I know much about at all and Christian gave me some useful ammo to fill in gaps for future (likely) arguments with anti-vaxxers, I think there’s something to be said for exposure to counter-arguments, to a degree anyway
The trend towards reposting links with no context or commentary though I find rather infuriating, especially when the subtext is liable to be bullshit or misinformation, because it’s difficult to refute claims when no direct claim is made
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I watched a video today that said that one of the reasons why rual southerners might hate science and medicine so much is that they were told by their doctor that oxycodone wasn't additictive and that so many have family members that have died as a result they feel from the medical and scientific establishment.
Not a reason to be pro-covid but I think it makes more sense why they're so batshit insane over this.
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What i find rather infuriating is the WHO complaining about travel bans, demanding a reversal. Talks about solidarity in the pandemic, etc.
The head of the World Health Organization in Africa on Sunday urged countries to keep borders open, saying banning flights over the potentially more transmissable Omicron strain “attacks global solidarity.”
“With the Omicron variant now detected in several regions of the world, putting in place travel bans that target Africa attacks global solidarity,” said WHO regional director for Africa, Matshidiso Moet, AFP reported.
Bitch please. On one hand, asking for billions to combat Covid, on the other complaining when countries try to not collapse under the potential load of a new strain. How absolutely infuriatingly idiotic is it to ask for "solidarity", which quite literally in this case means "well we have it, so it's only fair that you all get it too", when we're talking about the countries that foot the bills - and with that, require functioning economies?
If Omicron gets imported unrestricted and it spreads like wildfire again (it's not like there's no precedent for that), and economies are shutting down again, who's gonna foot the bill?
It's absolutely the correct decision to close the borders. This isn't about "not getting it", it's about "getting as little as possible until we know whether or not vaccinations work".
“Unjustified”, “draconian” and “counterproductive” – these are just some of words used by South Africa’s health minister as he criticised countries around the world that decided to restrict travel from the country and its neighbours in an attempt to contain the spread of a new coronavirus variant.
However, the WHO on Friday urged against travel curbs at this stage. The United Nations’ health agency cautioned that it could take several weeks to find out whether the newly-discovered mutations made the virus more virulent or transmissible.
Phaala said that bans were “a wrong approach – it’s misdirected and goes against the norms and advice by the WHO”.
“This is why we talked about the risk of vaccine apartheid. This virus can evolve in the absence of adequate levels of vaccination. It’s upsetting that it takes this to happen to get the point across,” Richard Lessells, a South Africa-based infectious disease expert involved in detecting variants, told Reuters news agency.
This is equally as infuriating - there are enough vaccines in south africa. In fact, just a few days ago they asked Pfizer and J&J to slow down deliveries because they can't keep up, and have too much stock, risking vaccines to expire.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/exclusive-south-africa-delays-covid-vaccine-deliveries-inoculations-slow-2021-11-24/
And that's not due to "not getting vaccines" or "not enough solidarity", it's quite literally because the south african population doesn't give a shit since they didn't get hit very hard, compared to european/american countries.
Oh, and of course it's infuriating that the WHO called it Omicron, and not Xi, just to suck chinas noodle.
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On November 29 2021 01:32 Sermokala wrote:
I watched a video today that said that one of the reasons why rual southerners might hate science and medicine so much is that they were told by their doctor that oxycodone wasn't additictive and that so many have family members that have died as a result they feel from the medical and scientific establishment.
Not a reason to be pro-covid but I think it makes more sense why they're so batshit insane over this.
People often assume that other people react rationally to these things, when in reality very few people do, especially in groups.
The medical establishment (in so much as it exists), the government and the media are trusted so little by the public at large after years and years of awful scandals that its almost obvious why so many people are anti-vax, when you look at where the messaging is coming from.
I don't think that logically this joins up to being anti-vax, but I guess people are people and will react that way when they are treated badly.
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Don't people revere the NHS?
Why distrust the medical system they are so proud of? Rather dissonant init?
E: I'm not trying to nitpick, just being curious
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On November 29 2021 07:10 Artisreal wrote:
Don't people revere the NHS?
Why distrust the medical system they are so proud of? Rather dissonant init?
E: I'm not trying to nitpick, just being curious
No you're right.
The same people who are antivax because they hate the medical establishment are hugely in favour of the NHS.
Its dissonant, but I don't think they are looking at things in those terms. Like i said, its not always rational.
On November 29 2021 07:11 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2021 06:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 29 2021 01:32 Sermokala wrote:
I watched a video today that said that one of the reasons why rual southerners might hate science and medicine so much is that they were told by their doctor that oxycodone wasn't additictive and that so many have family members that have died as a result they feel from the medical and scientific establishment.
Not a reason to be pro-covid but I think it makes more sense why they're so batshit insane over this. People often assume that other people react rationally to these things, when in reality very few people do, especially in groups. The medical establishment (in so much as it exists), the government and the media are trusted so little by the public at large after years and years of awful scandals that its almost obvious why so many people are anti-vax, when you look at where the messaging is coming from. I don't think that logically this joins up to being anti-vax, but I guess people are people and will react that way when they are treated badly. I've been reading a fair bit on historical anti vaccination and its extremely similar to now, even the reasons. I think there is always reasons to distrust new things especially those involving sickness. Most of the reasons people are, or at least say they are seem to justifications or excuses more than the root issue which is why they keep changing. It goes from vaccine is too new, vaccine is not fully approved, my preferred vaccine is not approved, and so on and so on.
I have also noticed that the reasons sound more like excuses alot of the time.
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It doesn't help when the virus was politicized by leaders from both sides since Day 1. The people that run our country care a lot less about how to best serve the American people and a lot more about how to personally benefit themselves. I think that's quite apparent to most people.
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On November 29 2021 07:32 BlackJack wrote:
It doesn't help when the virus was politicized by leaders from both sides since Day 1. The people that run our country care a lot less about how to best serve the American people and a lot more about how to personally benefit themselves. I think that's quite apparent to most people.
See I disagree with this both sidesism. At least with regards to the US.
Trump politicized it from the beginning because he was worried about the stock market/reelection. I dont think you can say the democrats politicized this. This is only a political issue because the republicans made it one.
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On November 29 2021 07:32 BlackJack wrote:
It doesn't help when the virus was politicized by leaders from both sides since Day 1. The people that run our country care a lot less about how to best serve the American people and a lot more about how to personally benefit themselves. I think that's quite apparent to most people.
Not everyone lives in the US, just so you know. ;-)
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