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On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby  But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense  ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data.
Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything.
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On August 20 2021 03:18 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Why believe anyone about anything? Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Is this meaningless incendiary drivel leading to some sort of point or counter to any of the points directed at you? Or is the flowery language meant to distract from that you have no point?
Would you like me to spell out my point to you or should we consider you getting it a lost cause?
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On August 20 2021 03:33 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 03:27 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 03:18 JimmiC wrote:On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:
[quote]
Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Why believe anyone about anything? On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:
[quote]
Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Is this meaningless incendiary drivel leading to some sort of point or counter to any of the points directed at you? Or is the flowery language meant to distract from that you have no point? Would you like me to spell out my point to you or should we consider you getting it a lost cause? Some sort of logic that does not argue with itself and some authenticity would be appreciated yes.
I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate.
If you want to live in a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration og war.
There you have it, spelt out so plainly that even you might get it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 20 2021 03:49 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 03:47 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 03:33 JimmiC wrote:On August 20 2021 03:27 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 03:18 JimmiC wrote:On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:[quote] Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Why believe anyone about anything? On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:[quote] Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Is this meaningless incendiary drivel leading to some sort of point or counter to any of the points directed at you? Or is the flowery language meant to distract from that you have no point? Would you like me to spell out my point to you or should we consider you getting it a lost cause? Some sort of logic that does not argue with itself and some authenticity would be appreciated yes. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live in a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration og war. There you have it, spelt out so plainly that even you might get it. Now I'm confused if you understand the word plainly. But to circle back to where this started, people who ride on a bus with or without a mask would not be a sign of hysteria. People who talk with the below quotes about health and safety mandates would be. Show nested quote +If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats
Show nested quote +difference between voluntary interaction between peers and subjugation coersion and violence carried out in the name of the State, the Greater Good or whatever psychopathic fucks with god-complexes justify their evil against their fellow men with? Show nested quote +What I find disturbing and repugnant though is the encouragement of the inappropriate life-attitude of fear and unquestioning submission to ‘authorities’.
You’re assuming the colorful language is due to some kind of hysteria and not merely a preference for colorful language?
I could convey my points in ways people like you would find less distracting or objectionable, but whats the fun in that
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Close work acquaintance of mines returned to work after being in hospital for close to 5months. She’s dealing with occasional “brain hazes” and she describes it as being super stoned or drunk and just being unable to perform simple tasks such as speaking a specific word. Pretty surreal seeing a “recovered” person return to work with no real post covid medication to assist with her daily tasks.
Stay safe out there friends.
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On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war.
Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition.
On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything.
Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them?
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On August 20 2021 04:15 Emnjay808 wrote:
Close work acquaintance of mines returned to work after being in hospital for close to 5months. She’s dealing with occasional “brain hazes” and she describes it as being super stoned or drunk and just being unable to perform simple tasks such as speaking a specific word. Pretty surreal seeing a “recovered” person return to work with no real post covid medication to assist with her daily tasks.
Stay safe out there friends.
Damn, that sounds rough  Was she vaccinated?
You too!
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On August 20 2021 04:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition. Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them?
I think this is the best way to explain my perspective: imagine your relationship with someone - sibling, lover, friend, school mate, whichever - when the relationship is going well, it’s just flowing; if friction happens, you might find yourself asking the other to adjust their behaviour - the you negotiate that one way or another; but if the relationship starts really degenerating, you are probably going to agree to rules (no phones at dinnertable!, as an example).
If the relationship degenerates even further globally or locally (like at the dinner table), one part may start demanding adherence to some rules of the other.
Like the taosist notion that the Way is better than virtues which in turn can degenerate into laws etc.
My point is simply this: if you’re resorting to coersion, something’s gone awfully wrong somewhere - now it may very well be that we individually and collectively are simply not capable of interacting more civilised with each other than what is for now but let us not pretend the lesser evil is not evil (if the word evil bothers you, feel free to replace it with inappropriate or suboptimal or whichever).
As for scientific consensuses, lets be a little more epistemologically sophisticated than ‘science is settled’, shall we? Science is a method, not a set of dogmas.
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She was fully vaccinated but she also had a history of asthma which also came back.
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On August 20 2021 05:07 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 04:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition. On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I think this is the best way to explain my perspective: imagine your relationship with someone - sibling, lover, friend, school mate, whichever - when the relationship is going well, it’s just flowing; if friction happens, you might find yourself asking the other to adjust their behaviour - the you negotiate that one way or another; but if the relationship starts really degenerating, you are probably going to agree to rules (no phones at dinnertable!, as an example). If the relationship degenerates even further globally or locally (like at the dinner table), one part may start demanding adherence to some rules of the other. Like the taosist notion that the Way is better than virtues which in turn can degenerate into laws etc. My point is simply this: if you’re resorting to coersion, something’s gone awfully wrong somewhere - now it may very well be that we individually and collectively are simply not capable of interacting more civilised with each other than what is for now but let us not pretend the lesser evil is not evil (if the word evil bothers you, feel free to replace it with inappropriate or suboptimal or whichever). As for scientific consensuses, lets be a little more epistemologically sophisticated than ‘science is settled’, shall we? Science is a method, not a set of dogmas.
I don't know how well the relationship analogy works, because you as an individual don't get to privately renegotiate your country's laws any time you're annoyed by them. I suppose you can leave the country if you want to "break up" with Denmark, but there will always be a set of rules you'll need to follow, wherever you go. That's the reality of the situation, and I suppose as an anarchist you don't like that, but the reality of the situation is that in a society, you're not the only person that matters. Everyone has to put up with some level of coercion for the community to run smoothly and safely. And keep in mind that this terrible regulation - the one that you "take as a declaration of war" - is simply asking you to wear a mask in public during an infectious disease pandemic. Is that the hill you really want to die on (pun intended)?
Also, I'm not willing to accept your non-answer to my last question about whether or not you have a scientific justification for why you disagree with the experts (saying that the science isn't settled is a cop-out, because it is settled in the basic sense that we know that masks and vaccines significantly protect us from covid infections), so I'll ask it again: Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them?
I feel like this all just boils down to you disliking being told what to do, even if it's barely even a personal inconvenience that can save countless lives. Huge upside, and basically no downside. It sounds selfish and childish.
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On August 20 2021 05:07 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 04:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition. On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I think this is the best way to explain my perspective: imagine your relationship with someone - sibling, lover, friend, school mate, whichever - when the relationship is going well, it’s just flowing; if friction happens, you might find yourself asking the other to adjust their behaviour - the you negotiate that one way or another; but if the relationship starts really degenerating, you are probably going to agree to rules (no phones at dinnertable!, as an example). If the relationship degenerates even further globally or locally (like at the dinner table), one part may start demanding adherence to some rules of the other. Like the taosist notion that the Way is better than virtues which in turn can degenerate into laws etc. My point is simply this: if you’re resorting to coersion, something’s gone awfully wrong somewhere - now it may very well be that we individually and collectively are simply not capable of interacting more civilised with each other than what is for now but let us not pretend the lesser evil is not evil (if the word evil bothers you, feel free to replace it with inappropriate or suboptimal or whichever). As for scientific consensuses, lets be a little more epistemologically sophisticated than ‘science is settled’, shall we? Science is a method, not a set of dogmas.
What use is this talk of theories in reality? Of course stuff goes wild and wrong. That's why we have laws and contracts and unions and capitalism.
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On August 20 2021 05:13 Emnjay808 wrote:
She was fully vaccinated but she also had a history of asthma which also came back.
Thanks for sharing; hopefully she gradually gets even better!
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Northern Ireland26108 Posts
On August 20 2021 05:07 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 04:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition. On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate. Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I think this is the best way to explain my perspective: imagine your relationship with someone - sibling, lover, friend, school mate, whichever - when the relationship is going well, it’s just flowing; if friction happens, you might find yourself asking the other to adjust their behaviour - the you negotiate that one way or another; but if the relationship starts really degenerating, you are probably going to agree to rules (no phones at dinnertable!, as an example). If the relationship degenerates even further globally or locally (like at the dinner table), one part may start demanding adherence to some rules of the other. Like the taosist notion that the Way is better than virtues which in turn can degenerate into laws etc. My point is simply this: if you’re resorting to coersion, something’s gone awfully wrong somewhere - now it may very well be that we individually and collectively are simply not capable of interacting more civilised with each other than what is for now but let us not pretend the lesser evil is not evil (if the word evil bothers you, feel free to replace it with inappropriate or suboptimal or whichever). As for scientific consensuses, lets be a little more epistemologically sophisticated than ‘science is settled’, shall we? Science is a method, not a set of dogmas.
I don’t think this works, your analogy is couched in a personal, one to one relationship, as opposed to a relationship of an individual to many other individuals.
What works, and even sometimes doesn’t in an interpersonal relationship is not workable without a mediator on a wider societal level. Imagine every time someone popped on a bus everyone has to renegotiate with the new arrival as to whether the passengers should/shouldn’t wear masks.
And not everyone is comfortable in airing their own grievances, so you may end up transgressing on their sensibilities anyway by virtue of the social environment affecting communication, even if you do seek negotiation earnestly.
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On August 20 2021 05:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 05:07 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 04:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:
[quote]
Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition. On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 21:42 Geisterkarle wrote:
[quote]
Aside from masks and stuff, I'm always smiling if I read people taking a train! And I mean an amusing "welcome to the club" smile! I think 2020 from around mid March to a little bit of May I admit, I took the car to get to work (no, I had no homeoffice). But after that, "back to normal" and taking the train every weekday to this day! (well some days I took the car, but those are minor) I'm not sure, what is the big thing about that...? Can someone link me to an article or anything about "someone with Covid took a train, now 100 people are infected!" Because I don't know any and we are basically "back and live" with the current discussion of being afraid of things that are not dangerous! Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I think this is the best way to explain my perspective: imagine your relationship with someone - sibling, lover, friend, school mate, whichever - when the relationship is going well, it’s just flowing; if friction happens, you might find yourself asking the other to adjust their behaviour - the you negotiate that one way or another; but if the relationship starts really degenerating, you are probably going to agree to rules (no phones at dinnertable!, as an example). If the relationship degenerates even further globally or locally (like at the dinner table), one part may start demanding adherence to some rules of the other. Like the taosist notion that the Way is better than virtues which in turn can degenerate into laws etc. My point is simply this: if you’re resorting to coersion, something’s gone awfully wrong somewhere - now it may very well be that we individually and collectively are simply not capable of interacting more civilised with each other than what is for now but let us not pretend the lesser evil is not evil (if the word evil bothers you, feel free to replace it with inappropriate or suboptimal or whichever). As for scientific consensuses, lets be a little more epistemologically sophisticated than ‘science is settled’, shall we? Science is a method, not a set of dogmas. I don't know how well the relationship analogy works, because you as an individual don't get to privately renegotiate your country's laws any time you're annoyed by them. I suppose you can leave the country if you want to "break up" with Denmark, but there will always be a set of rules you'll need to follow, wherever you go. That's the reality of the situation, and I suppose as an anarchist you don't like that, but the reality of the situation is that in a society, you're not the only person that matters. Everyone has to put up with some level of coercion for the community to run smoothly and safely. And keep in mind that this terrible regulation - the one that you "take as a declaration of war" - is simply asking you to wear a mask in public during an infectious disease pandemic. Is that the hill you really want to die on (pun intended)? Also, I'm not willing to accept your non-answer to my last question about whether or not you have a scientific justification for why you disagree with the experts (saying that the science isn't settled is a cop-out, because it is settled in the basic sense that we know that masks and vaccines significantly protect us from covid infections), so I'll ask it again: Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I feel like this all just boils down to you disliking being told what to do, even if it's barely even a personal inconvenience that can save countless lives. Huge upside, and basically no downside. It sounds selfish and childish.
Joke’s on you. Im happily living in a state of anarchy already although i often encounter mad people who regurgitate some childish nonsense about State Law Obey Adhere yadada i mostly just sigh or laugh at this and at the end of the day i get along with people just fine even if i think a lot of them are acting out nonsense
As for scientific and medical consensuses, you’re free to listen and trust to whoever or whichever institution you please.
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On August 20 2021 06:19 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2021 05:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 05:07 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 04:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 02:44 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:[quote] Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. I find coersion distasteful and inappropriate. If you want to live out a slave fetish where you outsource your sense-making to technocrats, fine by me. But if you try to force this on me, I’ll take it as a declaration of war. Do you feel this way about every law? Every law is coercive, by definition. On August 20 2021 02:48 Amumoman wrote:On August 20 2021 02:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 20 2021 01:45 Amumoman wrote:On August 19 2021 23:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2021 23:22 Geisterkarle wrote:On August 19 2021 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:[quote] Literally the beginning of the covid pandemic was from situations like this one: "Of the 3711 people onboard, around 700 were eventually infected with the virus (567 out of 2,666 passengers and 145 out of 1,045 crew)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_Diamond_Princess Also: "Researchers who investigated a case of community outbreak in Zhejiang province, China, found that a COVID-19 positive person has infected at least 23 persons who rode a bus with him to a religious event in less than two hours. This happened before wearing face mask was made mandatory as a precautionary measure against the dreaded SARS-CoV-2 virus." https://www.timesnownews.com/health/article/covid-positive-person-infects-23-bus-passengers-in-china-is-coronavirus-disease-really-airborne/646413 Same scenario: "When 67 Buddhist passengers and their driver boarded a bus in Ningbo, China, on January 19, 2020, it's likely that only one person among them was incubating the coronavirus. None knew or expected they'd get ill that day, so no one was wearing a mask." https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-bus-study-virus-spreads-beyond-6-feet-from-patient-2020-9 So yes, of course it can happen. To deny that it could happen would deny that covid can spread within confined areas, airborne. There's really no downside to just playing it safe and masking up. Those are quite few occurences and the Diamond Princess was basically in the "before times" and probably with partys and events and not just sitting on your chair and waiting for your station - but I admit, I don't know, what _you_ do on a train... everyone their own hobby But I never said anything about masks in my text! So, just an addon: Find me an article where people with masks infected each other on a train/bus? (or just for my atheist-belief something without a religious touch *g* those idiots are superspreading all over the world! There was the big event in South-Korea and even here in Germany we had one directly linked to some christian-sect...) It's actually "advertisement" for masks! But also for not being afraid to use a train! I and millions of commuters are living (in a very literally sense ) proof! That response can't possibly be aimed at me lol. Amumoman was claiming that asking people to wear masks on public transportation is just creating meaningless hysteria dictated by "psychopathic fucks", even though we know that's false. We know that not wearing masks significantly raises the chance of spreading infection within confined areas. If you don't like those examples of unmasked groups spreading infection, go find other ones. Not hard to Google search for more examples. And I don't understand the reference to what "_you_" do on a train, but covid can travel through the air. Breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, etc. are more than enough to spread the infection. Especially in confined areas that can't accommodate reasonable social distancing. If you want to take a train, go for it. That doesn't mean you can't simultaneously be aware that other people around you may be infected, or that you can't be hopeful that other people are vaccinated. It doesn't mean passengers shouldn't wear masks. First of all, a mandate is not a recommendation. I never argued one way or the other whether masks are effective at preventing spread - the fuck do I know about that anyway. Personally i am not bothered by wearing a mask all that much - what bothers me is it being mandated. Why does it bother you that wearing a mask in public is being mandated? I assume it's because you don't trust the people making the mandates (given all the names you've called them), despite the fact that the leaders are justifying this mandate by citing the scientific and medical experts and their data. Oh yes the experts. Never ever in the history of mankind has anyone who professed to be an expert or who was proclaimed to be an expert been wrong about anything. Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I think this is the best way to explain my perspective: imagine your relationship with someone - sibling, lover, friend, school mate, whichever - when the relationship is going well, it’s just flowing; if friction happens, you might find yourself asking the other to adjust their behaviour - the you negotiate that one way or another; but if the relationship starts really degenerating, you are probably going to agree to rules (no phones at dinnertable!, as an example). If the relationship degenerates even further globally or locally (like at the dinner table), one part may start demanding adherence to some rules of the other. Like the taosist notion that the Way is better than virtues which in turn can degenerate into laws etc. My point is simply this: if you’re resorting to coersion, something’s gone awfully wrong somewhere - now it may very well be that we individually and collectively are simply not capable of interacting more civilised with each other than what is for now but let us not pretend the lesser evil is not evil (if the word evil bothers you, feel free to replace it with inappropriate or suboptimal or whichever). As for scientific consensuses, lets be a little more epistemologically sophisticated than ‘science is settled’, shall we? Science is a method, not a set of dogmas. I don't know how well the relationship analogy works, because you as an individual don't get to privately renegotiate your country's laws any time you're annoyed by them. I suppose you can leave the country if you want to "break up" with Denmark, but there will always be a set of rules you'll need to follow, wherever you go. That's the reality of the situation, and I suppose as an anarchist you don't like that, but the reality of the situation is that in a society, you're not the only person that matters. Everyone has to put up with some level of coercion for the community to run smoothly and safely. And keep in mind that this terrible regulation - the one that you "take as a declaration of war" - is simply asking you to wear a mask in public during an infectious disease pandemic. Is that the hill you really want to die on (pun intended)? Also, I'm not willing to accept your non-answer to my last question about whether or not you have a scientific justification for why you disagree with the experts (saying that the science isn't settled is a cop-out, because it is settled in the basic sense that we know that masks and vaccines significantly protect us from covid infections), so I'll ask it again: Do you have any actual reason to think that the scientific and medical consensuses surrounding covid, masks, and vaccines are incorrect? Or are you simply asserting that since people are fallible, we have no reason to ever trust anyone, no matter how much the data and research and facts agree with them? I feel like this all just boils down to you disliking being told what to do, even if it's barely even a personal inconvenience that can save countless lives. Huge upside, and basically no downside. It sounds selfish and childish. Joke’s on you. Im happily living in a state of anarchy already although i often encounter mad people who regurgitate some childish nonsense about State Law Obey Adhere yadada i mostly just sigh or laugh at this and at the end of the day i get along with people just fine even if i think a lot of them are acting out nonsense As for scientific and medical consensuses, you’re free to listen and trust to whoever or whichever institution you please.
Except you're not. You're living in a country with laws and law enforcers. You're not living in an anarchist state. And I'll acknowledge your second non-answer to my repeated question as a concession that you don't have a legitimate science-based or medical-based argument for hating on the mask mandate. You're just ticked off that you're being told what to do.
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EPT
