EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 420
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
Other shots are good for a year. We've literally never made a coronavirus vaccine before 2020, and never tested one, so we had zero idea about the quality of protection, or longevity of protection, nor did we have much idea about how broadly protective the vaccines were. A booster is likely needed in the future, but emphasis should be on getting a larger population immunized in comparison to further protecting those already protected. It would be nice for vaccines to be mandatory, but in Canada for instance, it's not required in general for vaccinations to be required to participate in society. There's usually high participation rates (90%) for vaccination programs in schools, which is enough by itself for pretty much all diseases, and alongside exclusion of unvaccinated individuals from an environment where a disease is present, it's enough to prevent spread. As might be expected in Canada, vaccination policies are as diverse as the geogra-high immunization rates by educating their populations about the benefits of vaccines. Just three have legislated vaccination policies, applying strictly to children about to enrol in school. Ontario and New Brunswick require immunization for diphtheria, tetanus, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella immunization, while Manitoba requires a measles vaccination. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3216452/ I believe that all healthcare workers, and people who work with the elderly should be immunized against covid, and it should be mandatory, but that's a difficult step in a lot of cases. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Flu shots are absolutely voluntary! Nobody cares if you do one or not! I did not have a flu shot in my life! My parents (both 70y+) never had one! That is a completely different thing! But ok, if _that_ is the "covid-future" I'm quite open to it. But as I quoted (again) that if it is a forced vaccination again and again and again... nope... not gonna do it! Will migrate to a country that is not completely bonkers or open an island or something! | ||
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teeel141
93 Posts
On August 13 2021 02:20 Geisterkarle wrote: Why are you all bringing up flu shots? Flu shots are absolutely voluntary! Nobody cares if you do one or not! I did not have a flu shot in my life! My parents (both 70y+) never had one! That is a completely different thing! But ok, if _that_ is the "covid-future" I'm quite open to it. But as I quoted (again) that if it is a forced vaccination again and again and again... nope... not gonna do it! Will migrate to a country that is not completely bonkers or open an island or something! The biggest problem is that there is no clear plan that is presented to the public. Supposedly we were going for herd immunity. But they must have known months ago it was probably impossible. But if you tell the public then theyre less likely to get vaccinated. I really think they underestimate the damage that lies cause. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On August 13 2021 02:30 teeel141 wrote: The biggest problem is that there is no clear plan that is presented to the public. Supposedly we were going for herd immunity. But they must have known months ago it was probably impossible. But if you tell the public then theyre less likely to get vaccinated. I really think they underestimate the damage that lies cause. Herd immunity from pre-Delta strains was definitely possible. UK strain had an estimated R0 of 4-5. This puts the required immune population around 75-80% of the population to stop spread. Between infections and a 70%+ population vaccination rate, a number of countries had hit the threshold required to reach herd immunity (Canada, UK, Israel among others). Delta changed the game since it's functionally impossible to hit herd immunity without a vaccine that immunizes children. Yeah it'd be nice if we got information at the start and it stayed the same, but as the virus changes, the plan changes too. We've known from the start that boosters may be required, but 2 shots gives good protection in the short term. It's not a video game against a static opponent, there's a lot of unknown factors that change over time. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21731 Posts
On August 13 2021 02:30 teeel141 wrote: no, the problem is you posting repeated bullshit.The biggest problem is that there is no clear plan that is presented to the public. Supposedly we were going for herd immunity. But they must have known months ago it was probably impossible. But if you tell the public then theyre less likely to get vaccinated. I really think they underestimate the damage that lies cause. 'months ago' Delta did not exist and herd immunity after vaccination was a real goal. Plenty of countries almost entire got rid of it. Delta changed the math with how utterly infectious it is. But you know that because your here in this thread reading about it as it happens. So why do you feel the need to lie and spread misinformation and how much damage do you think that causes? On August 13 2021 02:48 JimmiC wrote: Someone that got banned in this thread for posting BS is an easy guess.Also what possess someone to create an account on Starcraft website to post 100% in the Covid thread? | ||
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teeel141
93 Posts
On August 13 2021 03:04 Gorsameth wrote: no, the problem is you posting repeated bullshit. 'months ago' Delta did not exist and herd immunity after vaccination was a real goal. Plenty of countries almost entire got rid of it. Delta changed the math with how utterly infectious it is. But you know that because your here in this thread reading about it as it happens. So why do you feel the need to lie and spread misinformation and how much damage do you think that causes? Someone that got banned in this thread for posting BS is an easy guess. Delta exists since October 2020. I don't know when it became dominant in India but im pretty sure it was many months ago and they must have data from then. But even if they didn't, they knew that in theory variants would emerge that are more infectious (than UK variant for example which already was more infectious than original strain) and you cant vaccinate the world fast enough to reach herd immunity before new variants. Theres still many many countries with below 20% vaccination. And i created this account specifically to ask how to get KF94 masks shipped from South Korea. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21731 Posts
On August 13 2021 03:21 teeel141 wrote: the date a strain was first identified isn't useful because at that point we don't know anything about it. Delta exists since October 2020. I don't know when it became dominant in India but im pretty sure it was many months ago and they must have data from then. But even if they didn't, they knew that in theory variants would emerge that are more infectious (than UK variant for example which already was more infectious than original strain) and you cant vaccinate the world fast enough to reach herd immunity before new variants. Theres still many many countries with below 20% vaccination. And i created this account specifically to ask how to get KF94 masks shipped from South Korea. Your literally asking why governments aren't omniscient. Only in recent months have we learned how Delta interacts with vaccines (and I am sure a bunch of very knowledge experts would say we are still not close to actually knowing anything) or how infectious it really is. After all, the situation in India isn't exactly comparable to most of the West. And 'they should have anticipated stuff' isn't an argument either. As Mohdoo previously talked about virus mutations are a complete crapshoot. If you want governments to react as if any virus could mutate into something super infectious and more deadly we would all be living in an isolated bubble our entire lives just incase, Don't think your advocating for that right? So what do you want governments to do? You don't want them to act on known information, you won't want them to act on all possible bad contingencies (see living your entire life in a sealed bubble) so what do you want from that? What response are you looking for? And don't say 'don't lie' because, again, the only person lying sofar is you. | ||
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teeel141
93 Posts
On August 13 2021 03:42 Gorsameth wrote: the date a strain was first identified isn't useful because at that point we don't know anything about it. Your literally asking why governments aren't omniscient. Only in recent months have we learned how Delta interacts with vaccines (and I am sure a bunch of very knowledge experts would say we are still not close to actually knowing anything) or how infectious it really is. After all, the situation in India isn't exactly comparable to most of the West. And 'they should have anticipated stuff' isn't an argument either. As Mohdoo previously talked about virus mutations are a complete crapshoot. If you want governments to react as if any virus could mutate into something super infectious and more deadly we would all be living in an isolated bubble our entire lives just incase, Don't think your advocating for that right? So what do you want governments to do? You don't want them to act on known information, you won't want them to act on all possible bad contingencies (see living your entire life in a sealed bubble) so what do you want from that? What response are you looking for? And don't say 'don't lie' because, again, the only person lying sofar is you. I just happen to think they knew and pretended not to know for strategic reasons. You think different and theres not much more to say about that. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21731 Posts
On August 13 2021 03:59 teeel141 wrote: So you think governments knew the ins and outs of Delta before there was any scientific study into it and before the virus even was in the West to study in an environment that is not the unvaccinated backlands of India.I just happen to think they knew and pretended not to know for strategic reasons. You think different and theres not much more to say about that. And that with this omniscient foreknowledge governments willingly and maliciously pushed people to get vaccinated in an attempt to achieve 'herd immunity' even tho Delta is not entirely, but still largely, stopped by vaccinations. Completely ignoring that vaccinations are still very effective in preventing hospitalization from Delta and that vaccines are the only measure we have of actually managing Covid outside of praying to a godlike entity to please not die or suffer chronic lingering effects. I think there is plenty to say about thinking such things and trying to spread such conspiracy theories in the public domain. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25522 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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teeel141
93 Posts
On August 13 2021 04:14 Gorsameth wrote: So you think governments knew the ins and outs of Delta before there was any scientific study into it and before the virus even was in the West to study in an environment that is not the unvaccinated backlands of India. And that with this omniscient foreknowledge governments willingly and maliciously pushed people to get vaccinated in an attempt to achieve 'herd immunity' even tho Delta is not entirely, but still largely, stopped by vaccinations. Completely ignoring that vaccinations are still very effective in preventing hospitalization from Delta and that vaccines are the only measure we have of actually managing Covid outside of praying to a godlike entity to please not die or suffer chronic lingering effects. I think there is plenty to say about thinking such things and trying to spread such conspiracy theories in the public domain. Who said maliciously? And i think the idea was/is to reduce deaths with vaccinations. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On August 13 2021 02:45 JimmiC wrote: People are bringing up flu shots because they are annual and the closest to how the Covid virus works. They bring up the other vaccines to show the other end of the frequency spectrum. It really is not complicated. I think you should go out on your own but for real, somewhere in the wilderness where you are actually self sufficient. People like you always crack me up using all the publicly funded luxuries our society has to offer, internet (yes you didn't pay for all the wire nor did the company), sewages, roads, electricity, clean running water, natural gas, hospitals, schools and so on. It also cracks me up when it is often the same people mad about masks that don't think Sikhs should be able to wear their turban as cops or inside, or think women should have to cover their breasts or think men and women shouldn't be allowed to just walk around naked whenever or where ever they want. It is like your life has been so entitled and because you have basically been able to do whatever you want with no consequence that the idea of responsibility is completely foreign to you. News flash, the government has been telling people what to do for 10's of thousands of years. And with democracies it has been an overwhelming benefit for those people. Because what they tell us is what the majority of us think is the best for us. Is it perfect, hell no, is it better then all living in small huts fighting for survival on the daily, hell ya. So please, go move into the wilderness and give it a shot. If I never hear from you again congrats you win you are actually self sufficient (Or more likely dead but I thought I'd stay positive). If not then at least show a little self and societal awareness. I'm not sure if I should report this, because you are clearly harassing me... But I don't really care. But would you read my quote/old post and understand: _I'm vaccinated!_ (well, nearly done, Monday is second shot). I'm no anti-vaxxer! I know what this shit virus is and does! But I still think "if you are not vaccinated you are not allowed into a restaurant" is completely shit and it does not help, but force more hate and we already see violence! As said, make it mandatory; but this "it's not mandatory ... but it actually is" bullshit is imho much worse! Nothing about is like the flu! But if you want to make it like that, I will treat it like that: Not bothering! I have not cared about the flu in my life and I maybe start it if I'm 70! If _you_ vax against the flu every year, good for you! But depending on who you are, you are not the majority! I checked some numbers for Germany: https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQ/Impfen/Influenza/FAQ17.html Doctors seem to be the "biggest" chunk with over 75% flu-vaccinations. But even for old and people with diseases it is no majority. (very fluctuating there, maybe 40%). I didn't bother to search for numbers of "healthy people", but probably very low! So be lucky that even in the US it is quite possible that more people are currently vaccinated against corona then the flu, even in "before times"! | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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teeel141
93 Posts
Also, of course they are doing a whole host of things for strategic reasons, there strategies are all based on having few sick and dying people. Because not only is that the "right thing to do" but it is also best for the economy and self preservation. Yes i do think its the right thing to do, but if they do it with the help of lies that is really damaging. And its not like they haven't lied in the past. Fauci himself talked about lying in his october 2020 NYT interview i remember that very well. So we know for sure they would lie for the greater good. But again it's just my opinion maybe im wrong. | ||
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