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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On August 10 2021 13:23 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 13:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 11:37 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 07:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 03:27 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 02:09 teeel141 wrote:On August 10 2021 00:15 JimmiC wrote:
Well it is only way worse for the unvaccinated. Sure vaccinated people are getting infected but for them Covid is just like getting the flu.
The issue is kids can't get the vaccine, so many adults have chosen not too and it is so bad for the unvaccinated that it is filling up the hospitals. This isn't true in the US according to this article nymag.com Very poor article. It makes bad comparisons. With testing and lockdown measures being so wildly different, there is nothing we can say to compare infection rates between the two times. NYmag is making an effort to produce content that has the appearance of being valid. It isn't. This is a form of entertainment, just FYI NYMag has pretty solid ratings for their factualness. Better than CNN/MSNBC, WaPo and on par with the NYT. Perhaps you're thinking of NY Post? No I read the article and it was bad. Apparently the NY Mag isn't always great. Edit: And just to be clear, I have read great articles by the NY Mag. But they don't only focus on high quality stuff. This article is quite bad and it can be really bad without the NY Mag being bad. Can you provide a specific example of what makes it bad/not valid? They make inferences based on bad comparisons. Don’t care to go into more detail Well then, seems sensible to disregard your apparently baseless assertions.
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On August 10 2021 13:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 13:23 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 13:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 11:37 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 07:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 03:27 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 02:09 teeel141 wrote:On August 10 2021 00:15 JimmiC wrote:
Well it is only way worse for the unvaccinated. Sure vaccinated people are getting infected but for them Covid is just like getting the flu.
The issue is kids can't get the vaccine, so many adults have chosen not too and it is so bad for the unvaccinated that it is filling up the hospitals. This isn't true in the US according to this article nymag.com Very poor article. It makes bad comparisons. With testing and lockdown measures being so wildly different, there is nothing we can say to compare infection rates between the two times. NYmag is making an effort to produce content that has the appearance of being valid. It isn't. This is a form of entertainment, just FYI NYMag has pretty solid ratings for their factualness. Better than CNN/MSNBC, WaPo and on par with the NYT. Perhaps you're thinking of NY Post? No I read the article and it was bad. Apparently the NY Mag isn't always great. Edit: And just to be clear, I have read great articles by the NY Mag. But they don't only focus on high quality stuff. This article is quite bad and it can be really bad without the NY Mag being bad. Can you provide a specific example of what makes it bad/not valid? They make inferences based on bad comparisons. Don’t care to go into more detail Well then, seems sensible to disregard your apparently baseless assertions.
I think the real issue is that the article does not support teeel141's objection to JimmiC's comment.
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On August 10 2021 13:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 13:23 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 13:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 11:37 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 07:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 03:27 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 02:09 teeel141 wrote:On August 10 2021 00:15 JimmiC wrote:
Well it is only way worse for the unvaccinated. Sure vaccinated people are getting infected but for them Covid is just like getting the flu.
The issue is kids can't get the vaccine, so many adults have chosen not too and it is so bad for the unvaccinated that it is filling up the hospitals. This isn't true in the US according to this article nymag.com Very poor article. It makes bad comparisons. With testing and lockdown measures being so wildly different, there is nothing we can say to compare infection rates between the two times. NYmag is making an effort to produce content that has the appearance of being valid. It isn't. This is a form of entertainment, just FYI NYMag has pretty solid ratings for their factualness. Better than CNN/MSNBC, WaPo and on par with the NYT. Perhaps you're thinking of NY Post? No I read the article and it was bad. Apparently the NY Mag isn't always great. Edit: And just to be clear, I have read great articles by the NY Mag. But they don't only focus on high quality stuff. This article is quite bad and it can be really bad without the NY Mag being bad. Can you provide a specific example of what makes it bad/not valid? They make inferences based on bad comparisons. Don’t care to go into more detail Well then, seems sensible to disregard your apparently baseless assertions.
You're welcome to. I happily give my perspective and welcome people to treat it as they will
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On August 10 2021 14:00 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 13:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 13:23 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 13:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 11:37 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 07:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 03:27 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 02:09 teeel141 wrote:On August 10 2021 00:15 JimmiC wrote:
Well it is only way worse for the unvaccinated. Sure vaccinated people are getting infected but for them Covid is just like getting the flu.
The issue is kids can't get the vaccine, so many adults have chosen not too and it is so bad for the unvaccinated that it is filling up the hospitals. This isn't true in the US according to this article nymag.com Very poor article. It makes bad comparisons. With testing and lockdown measures being so wildly different, there is nothing we can say to compare infection rates between the two times. NYmag is making an effort to produce content that has the appearance of being valid. It isn't. This is a form of entertainment, just FYI NYMag has pretty solid ratings for their factualness. Better than CNN/MSNBC, WaPo and on par with the NYT. Perhaps you're thinking of NY Post? No I read the article and it was bad. Apparently the NY Mag isn't always great. Edit: And just to be clear, I have read great articles by the NY Mag. But they don't only focus on high quality stuff. This article is quite bad and it can be really bad without the NY Mag being bad. Can you provide a specific example of what makes it bad/not valid? They make inferences based on bad comparisons. Don’t care to go into more detail Well then, seems sensible to disregard your apparently baseless assertions. I think the real issue is that the article does not support teeel141's objection to JimmiC's comment.
Their objections were vague at best but the article seemed fine and to provide some interesting perspective (though only loosely related to the post they said it disputed). Made me curious what about the article itself Mohdoo was objecting to/ seemingly using to dismiss it in its entirety.
If it's an obviously bad/not valid article I had desired to know why so as I could notice it elsewhere/in the future since it clearly doesn't stand out to me.
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On August 10 2021 08:53 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 02:09 teeel141 wrote:On August 10 2021 00:15 JimmiC wrote:
Well it is only way worse for the unvaccinated. Sure vaccinated people are getting infected but for them Covid is just like getting the flu.
The issue is kids can't get the vaccine, so many adults have chosen not too and it is so bad for the unvaccinated that it is filling up the hospitals. This isn't true in the US according to this article nymag.com None of that counters what I said. That article does not discuss how its well over 90% of the people in hospitals who are not vaccinated. Yes it is worse in Florida now then it has ever been, yes it is getting that way in many places, and yes it almost all unvaccinated people that are in the hospitals. And yes those people are a huge burden on the rest of society.
I don't really see anything wrong with the article. It seems to back up its claims with basic statistics, even though it tries to make some more alarming with a rather dodgy comparison early on. The basic problem doesn't go away because they wanted to make it even scarier.
The problem is clear: in other countries that the US generally compares itself to with regards to Covid, the delta variant ripped through the country with very high infection rates, but far far fewer hospitalisations and deaths than the Alpha variant originally. In the US, so far, the reduction in hospitalisations and deaths due to vaccines seems far less than this expected drop. Even if those hospitalisations are mostly unvaccinated, that same was true in the UK and Israel. The main issue appears to be the states/people that act as if Covid is over, which is abig difference with those countries (even the UK and its hilarious failure of a Freedom Day).
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On August 10 2021 15:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 14:00 Magic Powers wrote:On August 10 2021 13:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 13:23 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 13:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 11:37 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 07:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2021 03:27 Mohdoo wrote:On August 10 2021 02:09 teeel141 wrote:On August 10 2021 00:15 JimmiC wrote:
Well it is only way worse for the unvaccinated. Sure vaccinated people are getting infected but for them Covid is just like getting the flu.
The issue is kids can't get the vaccine, so many adults have chosen not too and it is so bad for the unvaccinated that it is filling up the hospitals. This isn't true in the US according to this article nymag.com Very poor article. It makes bad comparisons. With testing and lockdown measures being so wildly different, there is nothing we can say to compare infection rates between the two times. NYmag is making an effort to produce content that has the appearance of being valid. It isn't. This is a form of entertainment, just FYI NYMag has pretty solid ratings for their factualness. Better than CNN/MSNBC, WaPo and on par with the NYT. Perhaps you're thinking of NY Post? No I read the article and it was bad. Apparently the NY Mag isn't always great. Edit: And just to be clear, I have read great articles by the NY Mag. But they don't only focus on high quality stuff. This article is quite bad and it can be really bad without the NY Mag being bad. Can you provide a specific example of what makes it bad/not valid? They make inferences based on bad comparisons. Don’t care to go into more detail Well then, seems sensible to disregard your apparently baseless assertions. I think the real issue is that the article does not support teeel141's objection to JimmiC's comment. Their objections were vague at best but the article seemed fine and to provide some interesting perspective (though only loosely related to the post they said it disputed). Made me curious what about the article itself Mohdoo was objecting to/ seemingly using to dismiss it in its entirety. If it's an obviously bad/not valid article I had desired to know why so as I could notice it elsewhere/in the future since it clearly doesn't stand out to me.
Judging from the way it's written, it appears to be a live interview. That format is suboptimal for conveying accurate information, unless the interviewee is given the questions ahead of time and can prepare sufficiently. So I'll give Topol the benefit of the doubt. I can't say anything about the overall quality of the article because I don't like to spend time fact checking live interviews.
I can mention one claim that looks false to me, which is Topol mentioning that Germany currently has no wave, when quite clearly there's one happening right now. No idea how many other falsehoods I'd be able to find.
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There really is no wave in germany right now despite very high delta% ig.ft.com
Maybe because they use respirators more instead of medical masks? I think i read somewhere they require that more in Germany.
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On August 10 2021 19:51 teeel141 wrote:There really is no wave in germany right now despite very high delta% ig.ft.comMaybe because they use respirators more instead of medical masks? I think i read somewhere they require that more in Germany.
No wave in Germany? By July 3rd, daily infections had declined to a few hundred (7-day moving avg low point: 557). Since then they've increased to several thousand (7-day moving avg high point: 2896).
Whatever we choose to call that, we know it's a significant increase in daily infections. Using a different word doesn't change that. That's why Topol's claim about Germany is wrong. It has nothing to do with the word "wave". The essence of his claim is wrong.
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On August 10 2021 19:51 teeel141 wrote:There really is no wave in germany right now despite very high delta% ig.ft.comMaybe because they use respirators more instead of medical masks? I think i read somewhere they require that more in Germany. How can you say there is no 4th wave in Germany when the very graph you link shows cases are going up again?
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On August 10 2021 20:13 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 19:51 teeel141 wrote:There really is no wave in germany right now despite very high delta% ig.ft.comMaybe because they use respirators more instead of medical masks? I think i read somewhere they require that more in Germany. How can you say there is no 4th wave in Germany when the very graph you link shows cases are going up again?
Yes youre right there is actually a wave. It just looked basically flat to me before i removed other countries.
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covid is having a field day with all these free vaccine cocktails, must be nice to constantly power up with free booze..
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Norway28911 Posts
I don't really think infections is that interesting of a metric. Hospitalizations and deaths are. I do realize that hospitalizations and deaths tends to lag behind infections, and I realize a lot of people are still dying in poorer, less vaccinated countries - I'm not disregarding these - but living in a western country with pretty high vaccine numbers, and virtually everyone in the risk zones being vaccinated, I'm just not worried anymore.
Like, Norway's infection numbers are pretty high right now, and they have been for a good while. since the middle of May, we've seen about 20k infections, but only 23 deaths. (No expected lag for this period.)
Sucks for regions where people don't vaccinate and they can't do a similar semi-ignore of the virus, though.
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@JimmiC
Respirators are a type of a mask. You're thinking of ventilators. Perhaps there is a difference between British/European English and American English in that respect, not sure.
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On August 10 2021 23:39 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I don't really think infections is that interesting of a metric. Hospitalizations and deaths are. I do realize that hospitalizations and deaths tends to lag behind infections, and I realize a lot of people are still dying in poorer, less vaccinated countries - I'm not disregarding these - but living in a western country with pretty high vaccine numbers, and virtually everyone in the risk zones being vaccinated, I'm just not worried anymore.
Like, Norway's infection numbers are pretty high right now, and they have been for a good while. since the middle of May, we've seen about 20k infections, but only 23 deaths. (No expected lag for this period.)
Sucks for regions where people don't vaccinate and they can't do a similar semi-ignore of the virus, though.
Pretty much this. Most western nations with high population support of vaccines are in the final stretch for the pandemic.
I'm pretty sure that by the end of the year, as the trials for children are completed we'll have communities and groups that completely ignore the virus. In my friends group, everyone and their parents are vaccinated. The only ones who are not vaccinated are the children who cannot be vaccinated yet. We're at ~95% of normality besides mask wearing in public spaces. The only activities we've curtailed are organized sports where we can't control the vaccination levels of the people we're playing with/against.
My neighbourhood has 90% of eligible people vaccinated, my health region is at 85% (~80/75% of total population). It's not quite at the level at which herd immunity to Delta is achieved, but it's pretty damn close.
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I linked that article mainly because you said if a vaccinated person gets covid its just like the flu. But in the article Eric Topol says: "What I’m hearing — and I’ve been helping with a bunch of patients — is that people who are breaking through are getting very sick. They’re getting Regeneron antibodies"
And also he talks about death to cases ratio being really bad, which either means cases are way way undercounted, or that delta is way worse for unvaccinated than regural covid or that vaccines arent that effective against delta.
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On August 11 2021 02:16 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2021 23:39 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I don't really think infections is that interesting of a metric. Hospitalizations and deaths are. I do realize that hospitalizations and deaths tends to lag behind infections, and I realize a lot of people are still dying in poorer, less vaccinated countries - I'm not disregarding these - but living in a western country with pretty high vaccine numbers, and virtually everyone in the risk zones being vaccinated, I'm just not worried anymore.
Like, Norway's infection numbers are pretty high right now, and they have been for a good while. since the middle of May, we've seen about 20k infections, but only 23 deaths. (No expected lag for this period.)
Sucks for regions where people don't vaccinate and they can't do a similar semi-ignore of the virus, though. Pretty much this. Most western nations with high population support of vaccines are in the final stretch for the pandemic. I'm pretty sure that by the end of the year, as the trials for children are completed we'll have communities and groups that completely ignore the virus. In my friends group, everyone and their parents are vaccinated. The only ones who are not vaccinated are the children who cannot be vaccinated yet. We're at ~95% of normality besides mask wearing in public spaces. The only activities we've curtailed are organized sports where we can't control the vaccination levels of the people we're playing with/against. My neighbourhood has 90% of eligible people vaccinated, my health region is at 85% (~80/75% of total population). It's not quite at the level at which herd immunity to Delta is achieved, but it's pretty damn close.
That's wonderful. I'm stoked for you. Tough time to be an American.
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EPT
