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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
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Whats the reaction in Canada to the current rise in COVID cases of your neighbor in the south? Are you gonna close the border or whats the strategy to now kind of keeping Canadians safe from Americans who might come and spread it in Canada
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I dearly hope all Murican borders stay closed for the rest of the year. If they do not want to deal with Covid, it's their problem. Leave the rest of the world out of it
+ Show Spoiler +On a more political sidenote:
Trump wants 10k soldiers deployed in Germany to return to the US. If I were one of those soldiers I would move heaven and earth to stay in Germany as long as possible.
EDIT: For Covid reasons ofc. If they have wife and children in the US it's another thing entirely
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On July 17 2020 11:23 Danglars wrote:
Deaths lag cases and AZ had a spike in cases. I thought AZ would be able to load-balance hospitals and put in place surge plans, and so far that's born out, and looks increasingly likely to be sustained with the graph I linked.
I'm not going to indulge the hysterics of anyone here that screams at the cases when they're bad and deaths aren't, then switches to screaming about the deaths when they're bad and cases aren't. That's the worst of media, and we have no use for acting like clicks and attention is all we post for. You mean people saying that cases lead to deaths, getting told it won't and then pointing out that they indeed have led to more deaths?
People wouldn't need to constantly point out reality if some were not so busy trying to deny that reality.
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On July 17 2020 17:55 Copymizer wrote:
Whats the reaction in Canada to the current rise in COVID cases of your neighbor in the south? Are you gonna close the border or whats the strategy to now kind of keeping Canadians safe from Americans who might come and spread it in Canada
Keep the border closed right now. There's a lot of loopholes available right now though, and some Americans are abusing them to get into Canada to go to vacation areas, skipping quarantines etc.
It's not like they aren't trying to get into Canada:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/nearly-5-000-u-s-citizens-tried-to-enter-canada-for-shopping-recreation-amid-pandemic-cbsa-1.5025674
There were something like 20k referrals to the RCMP for people breaking quarantine. The majority of which were returning snowbirds, but there's a couple of Americans among them.
Americans, and american license plates are bogeymen right now.
Washington state, the nearest state to BC had 1200 cases yesterday, around 60 times more than my province, despite BC having been open for a month now in the most relaxed covid phase possible prior to the availability of a vaccine.
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It looks like deaths lag infections by a long way now.
It's looking like roughly 1 week from detection to hospitalization, and then another 2 weeks to the death curve rising.
My guesses:
1. The infected are younger
2. Testing is more available
3. Better treatment means people that previously would've died, hang on a lot longer.
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To elaborate on your point 3, we also have a better understanding of how to combat the virus and the virus in general, so the mortality rate should also be dropping in general, as long as the hospitals don't get overwhelmed.
For instance, ventilators being used too early is rather dangerous since the lungs can grow too weak, so now we put people on them later.
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In response to the suggestion that some states are not trying their best to re-open their economies completely, the reason several states are in this mess is because they let hospitality open right up. It’s taken ICUs being filled right up to the brim for places like Texas to start implementing restrictions of sorts, which is already too damned late. But some are still praying to a God that they don’t need to do this.
Case in point Florida:
Just about every country who wants to handle the coronavirus has told gyms to shut down (or operate with significant restrictions after they handled the initial outbreak). If you want to work with a personal trainer, most are asked to use Zoom and do body weight exercises. To be fair on Florida here, there’s still restrictions but they’re basically the bare minimum compared to places like Japan which have mandated capacity restrictions, solo training and working out with masks.
But even if we take DeSantis’ point regarding healthy people being unlikely to suffer any consequences from coronavirus as true, he’s completely missing the point. This point is that people who spread the virus in a gym, which is already a filthy place based on people not wiping down their weights and yelling as they’re trying to hit their PB, are going to be super spreaders and you’re never going to contact trace with the number of businesses open and sheer number of cases.
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On July 18 2020 04:47 Lmui wrote:It looks like deaths lag infections by a long way now. It's looking like roughly 1 week from detection to hospitalization, and then another 2 weeks to the death curve rising. My guesses: 1. The infected are younger 2. Testing is more available 3. Better treatment means people that previously would've died, hang on a lot longer.
Yes, it seems that the US is in a better position to track and to treat the disease that it allowed to spiral out of control than it was four months ago. Death rates will continue to grow, but at least this time around we will see it coming a few weeks in advance.
Ounce of prevention, pound of cure. No better example of this than the US.
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On July 18 2020 06:12 StalkerTL wrote:In response to the suggestion that some states are not trying their best to re-open their economies completely, the reason several states are in this mess is because they let hospitality open right up. It’s taken ICUs being filled right up to the brim for places like Texas to start implementing restrictions of sorts, which is already too damned late. But some are still praying to a God that they don’t need to do this. Case in point Florida: https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1284203797934419968Just about every country who wants to handle the coronavirus has told gyms to shut down (or operate with significant restrictions after they handled the initial outbreak). If you want to work with a personal trainer, most are asked to use Zoom and do body weight exercises. To be fair on Florida here, there’s still restrictions but they’re basically the bare minimum compared to places like Japan which have mandated capacity restrictions, solo training and working out with masks. But even if we take DeSantis’ point regarding healthy people being unlikely to suffer any consequences from coronavirus as true, he’s completely missing the point. This point is that people who spread the virus in a gym, which is already a filthy place based on people not wiping down their weights and yelling as they’re trying to hit their PB, are going to be super spreaders and you’re never going to contact trace with the number of businesses open and sheer number of cases.
Plus some people go to the gym to improve their physical health because it's not great. This is stupid on so many levels, and explains very succinctly why Florida is one of the biggest disaster zones in the world right now.
"Well in theory everyone who goes to the gym is a paragon of health, who will never catch the virus or suffer long-term effects, or even spread the disease because they don't even leave the gym!" The fuuuuuck.
The selfishness levels of a huge swath of Americans have been put on full display the last 6 months. The amount of work it takes to drill into peoples' heads that it's not about whether they catch it individually, it's about how people will spread it to others, is absolutely mind-numbing.
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Personally I'm kinda concerned about California since I see the most license plates from there with Florida and Texas well behind.
Doesn't seem even during the lockdown they could make their new infections significantly drop, just steadied the growth to something slow and steady instead of exponential.
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Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On July 17 2020 11:57 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 11:40 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 17 2020 11:23 Danglars wrote:
Deaths lag cases and AZ had a spike in cases. I thought AZ would be able to load-balance hospitals and put in place surge plans, and so far that's born out, and looks increasingly likely to be sustained with the graph I linked.
I'm not going to indulge the hysterics of anyone here that screams at the cases when they're bad and deaths aren't, then switches to screaming about the deaths when they're bad and cases aren't. That's the worst of media, and we have no use for acting like clicks and attention is all we post for. They’re both pretty bad to have no? Given that recovered people may have long term health complications in all sorts of areas that weren’t previously understood earlier on in this crisis. Can still be ruinous if it’s not fatal. We’ll see how it progresses, it would seem odd to have a country with such variable enforcement re Covid and such a reluctance culturally to wear masks, with the existing rates we’re already seeing to not have at least some uptake in the death toll. Sure some people do stray into hysterics, absolutely. Still preferable to ‘it’s a hoax’ or that wearing masks do nothing though at this stage. I hope we can separate what they are and what they mean, instead of just pointing to what one's worse (How do you know case positivity and cases/100k are getting better? Everybody switched to talking about deaths!) I don't think "preferable to "it's a hoax" is any useful standard to beat here. Do you? Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 17 2020 11:23 Danglars wrote:
Deaths lag cases and AZ had a spike in cases. I thought AZ would be able to load-balance hospitals and put in place surge plans, and so far that's born out, and looks increasingly likely to be sustained with the graph I linked.
I'm not going to indulge the hysterics of anyone here that screams at the cases when they're bad and deaths aren't, then switches to screaming about the deaths when they're bad and cases aren't. That's the worst of media, and we have no use for acting like clicks and attention is all we post for. You have amazing logic, you said it was not an issue because wealths were not rising. We told you they would come. They have now came, and now dealths don’t matter. Also the climb not continue does not mean cases have stopped it means there is still a lot of new cases every day, just it is not growing. Also death , new cases, hospitalizations and so on are not hysterics, they are simply numbers. But you have clearly shown that you do not care about the facts only moving the goalposts. I’m not sure what your motivations are I just wished there was not so many of you ignoring facts because that is not going to get it under control. You will back to 911 numbers daily soon enough. Also no travel for Americans is going to be a hard pill to swallow for many, borders will be closed to the US for a long time. When you're done complimenting my logic, reiterating that they're "simply numbers," and talking about my motivations, I'll still be here. I don't see the use for engaging with something that mundane. Also, what I said was in context with a steeply dropping median age of infected, which means higher survivability rates.
No it’s not a particularly high standard, still one that is rather consistently failing to be met.
That aside there has been too much of a fixation on deaths, guess it’s more ‘sexy’ in the media sense.
I feel if it was more common knowledge that catching Covid as a young person isn’t a binary between fully recovering and a slim chance of death people would be treating it more seriously in their day to day.
In this thread though I think people have generally been decent at discussing infection rates and death rates as interlinked phenomena rather than cherry picking them individually to make a point.
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Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On July 18 2020 06:51 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 06:12 StalkerTL wrote:In response to the suggestion that some states are not trying their best to re-open their economies completely, the reason several states are in this mess is because they let hospitality open right up. It’s taken ICUs being filled right up to the brim for places like Texas to start implementing restrictions of sorts, which is already too damned late. But some are still praying to a God that they don’t need to do this. Case in point Florida: https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1284203797934419968Just about every country who wants to handle the coronavirus has told gyms to shut down (or operate with significant restrictions after they handled the initial outbreak). If you want to work with a personal trainer, most are asked to use Zoom and do body weight exercises. To be fair on Florida here, there’s still restrictions but they’re basically the bare minimum compared to places like Japan which have mandated capacity restrictions, solo training and working out with masks. But even if we take DeSantis’ point regarding healthy people being unlikely to suffer any consequences from coronavirus as true, he’s completely missing the point. This point is that people who spread the virus in a gym, which is already a filthy place based on people not wiping down their weights and yelling as they’re trying to hit their PB, are going to be super spreaders and you’re never going to contact trace with the number of businesses open and sheer number of cases. Plus some people go to the gym to improve their physical health because it's not great. This is stupid on so many levels, and explains very succinctly why Florida is one of the biggest disaster zones in the world right now. "Well in theory everyone who goes to the gym is a paragon of health, who will never catch the virus or suffer long-term effects, or even spread the disease because they don't even leave the gym!" The fuuuuuck. The selfishness levels of a huge swath of Americans have been put on full display the last 6 months. The amount of work it takes to drill into peoples' heads that it's not about whether they catch it individually, it's about how people will spread it to others, is absolutely mind-numbing.
I’m curious really. TLers from the US seem to not be morons in this regard, what I’m hearing about general behaviour seems another level of blasé from the general populace here, or in Europe or in Asia.
Is it purely a ‘Ive got mine’ cultural thing or are there systemic layers to it?
For example we furloughed workers at 80% of their pay for months, I know a lot who have been working from home and will be until September at least etc. All sorts of other financial relief for small businesses and the likes.
Anecdotally (quite a lot of it on TL) I’m hearing bosses dragging people into the office. Some mortgage loans but no assistance on rent and a one time cheque of a thousand dollars as opposed to months on 80% pay like here etc etc.
Is it any wonder people want things to open up ASAP for example because there really isn’t much alternative for many Americans as it stands?
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I think there's a large number of systemic factors that roll into it. To begin with people would rather the pandemic not be a thing at all, and I genuinely empathize with that. However, most companies and capitalized interests are providing little to nothing in the way of assistance or safety net. When some insurance or finance companies offer to delay monthly premiums, or landlords offer to put a moratorium on evictions, that often comes with the caveat of slamming their customers with the entire backlog the day the pause ends.
I've had to pay my full rent since day 1, with no delays or assistance of any kind. I've been laid off, as my company looks for a more experienced replacement who'll take less money. I got 1 $1200 check, which in Steven Mnuchin terms is apparently a lot of money, but in the real world that doesn't even cover a month's rent, currently waiting on whispers of a 2nd check that may never come, and I'm also waiting on an Unemployment claim to filter its way through a massively overloaded system, only to stop receiving increased benefits, if I get any at all, in about 2 weeks.
And a lot of folks have had it worse than me. Now couple that with a large portion of the country believing that the whole thing is a hoax or a political ploy, and will literally not wear a mask, or wear a mesh mask, specifically to spite people who are trying to do their part to not infect everyone. That's mostly down to there not being a single, consistent message on how we're going to handle COVID-19 as a nation, rather a back-and-forth that occurs as Trump and Republicans turn the pandemic into a political football. Thus the message is diluted and only folks who know which way is up are convinced they should even be doing anything.
So, no. Not a lot of alternatives at all for most folks. This is the real "trickle down" that we get.
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On July 18 2020 07:53 NewSunshine wrote:I think there's a large number of systemic factors that roll into it. To begin with people would rather the pandemic not be a thing at all, and I genuinely empathize with that. However, most companies and capitalized interests are providing little to nothing in the way of assistance or safety net. When some insurance or finance companies offer to delay monthly premiums, or landlords offer to put a moratorium on evictions, that often comes with the caveat of slamming their customers with the entire backlog the day the pause ends. I've had to pay my full rent since day 1, with no delays or assistance of any kind. I've been laid off, as my company looks for a more experienced replacement who'll take less money. I got 1 $1200 check, which in Steven Mnuchin terms is apparently a lot of money, but in the real world that doesn't even cover a month's rent, currently waiting on whispers of a 2nd check that may never come, and I'm currently waiting on an Unemployment claim to filter its way through a massively overloaded system, only to stop receiving increased benefits, if I get any at all, in about 2 weeks. And a lot of folks have had it worse than me. Now couple that with a large portion of the country believing that the whole thing is a hoax or a political ploy, and will literally not wear a mask, or wear a mesh mask, specifically to spite people who are trying to do their part to not infect everyone. So, no. Not a lot of alternatives at all for most folks. This is the real "trickle down" that we get.
Here's hoping congress at least extends relief while they're briefly back from vacation. I know a lot of us need it.
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Northern Ireland26765 Posts
On July 18 2020 07:53 NewSunshine wrote:I think there's a large number of systemic factors that roll into it. To begin with people would rather the pandemic not be a thing at all, and I genuinely empathize with that. However, most companies and capitalized interests are providing little to nothing in the way of assistance or safety net. When some insurance or finance companies offer to delay monthly premiums, or landlords offer to put a moratorium on evictions, that often comes with the caveat of slamming their customers with the entire backlog the day the pause ends. I've had to pay my full rent since day 1, with no delays or assistance of any kind. I've been laid off, as my company looks for a more experienced replacement who'll take less money. I got 1 $1200 check, which in Steven Mnuchin terms is apparently a lot of money, but in the real world that doesn't even cover a month's rent, currently waiting on whispers of a 2nd check that may never come, and I'm currently waiting on an Unemployment claim to filter its way through a massively overloaded system, only to stop receiving increased benefits, if I get any at all, in about 2 weeks. And a lot of folks have had it worse than me. Now couple that with a large portion of the country believing that the whole thing is a hoax or a political ploy, and will literally not wear a mask, or wear a mesh mask, specifically to spite people who are trying to do their part to not infect everyone. That's mostly down to there not being a single, consistent message on how we're going to handle COVID-19 as a nation, rather a back-and-forth that occurs as Trump and Republicans turn the pandemic into a political football. Thus the message is diluted and only folks who know which way is up are convinced they should even be doing anything. So, no. Not a lot of alternatives at all for most folks. This is the real "trickle down" that we get.
That’s brutal man, hope you can land on your feet.
I recall myself and GH and others being rather critical of landlords being given more protection than tenants. And home owners more than renters.
As for the messaging yes it’s been uniquely fucking terrible. Bafflingly bad. My two temp bans for drunk posting about his assassination probably attest to my dislike of Trump.
Baffling, he had a chance to be Presidential and to do the ‘uniting the country’ thing that he’s so very bad at generally, he could have really seized upon this almost like a wartime President.
Instead we have whatever the fuck this is. Which is bad for Americans in general and doesn’t even benefit him particularly either.
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TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdFHgVhUYAE3Un2?format=png&name=small)
