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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here.
Glad to hear that.
I hope a beneficial consequence of Covid is that really working from hone becomes more accessible to the wider populace when applicable.
I’m only just accepted to start my retraining undergrad in September, my girlfriend works in one of the bigger tech companies here. From where I am it’s like a minimum 45 minute commute. Manageable sure but that’s an hour and a half I would hypothetically have to schedule into a day, whereas she’s been working from home the whole lockdown and into September.
Alas I lack the divine power but I wish mask defiers could be the only sufferers for their decisions.
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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
On July 18 2020 09:21 JimmiC wrote:
I would be really interested in how much carbon has been saved by the working from home. For example my commute is roughly 20KM either way and I have not made it since March. There must be literally millions in that boat, though in Europe and some major cities public transport is more available and used so maybe it doesn't make as much of a difference there. But smaller cities and NA in general there are so many people that drive, and few that even car pool.
Cutting commutes just makes sense from a million perspectives.
Aside from carbon, which is important. Your employees aren’t having to travel at rush hour and they’re less tired from commuting.
All the people who do work that needs physical presence who are commuting are travelling on lines less full of people.
It’s better for the environment, it’s better for people, it’s better for the abstract economy to have people not out of the system and travelling hours of a day. They can do their work at home and then emerge to spend more.
Time travelling is just a waste, both for people’s well being but also in terms of them being active consumers.
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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
On July 18 2020 09:37 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 09:24 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 18 2020 09:21 JimmiC wrote:
I would be really interested in how much carbon has been saved by the working from home. For example my commute is roughly 20KM either way and I have not made it since March. There must be literally millions in that boat, though in Europe and some major cities public transport is more available and used so maybe it doesn't make as much of a difference there. But smaller cities and NA in general there are so many people that drive, and few that even car pool. Cutting commutes just makes sense from a million perspectives. Aside from carbon, which is important. Your employees aren’t having to travel at rush hour and they’re less tired from commuting. All the people who do work that needs physical presence who are commuting are travelling on lines less full of people. It’s better for the environment, it’s better for people, it’s better for the abstract economy to have people not out of the system and travelling hours of a day. They can do their work at home and then emerge to spend more. Time travelling is just a waste, both for people’s well being but also in terms of them being active consumers. Totally, we don't have travel issues here so I only have like a 15-20 min commute. But saving that 40 mins a day is awesome. There is lots of places where people travel for 1.5 hours or more. Adding 15 hours a week to home/leisure/family time will have so many benefits for society. On the flip side I think it will be much harder to build full trusting work relationships without people see each other in the office every day. I hope that in my work we are allowed to work from home but we also have some sort of meetings or days where we also interact in person.
Yeah you could solve that issue with like a one weekly face to face thing and the rest working from home.
My girlfriend works in software and has friends in work. She’s said she’d prefer a face to face meeting on the Monday to lay down what needs done, then deliver the other 4 days of the working week.
She is currently wholly working from home but thinks one day just touching base would be beneficial.
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On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here.
A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting.
The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities.
Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave.
And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue.
These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed.
My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them.
In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths.
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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities. Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave. And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue. These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed. My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them. In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths.
Just wear a mask, socially distance, just follow precautions it’s not that hard.
If people followed these basic precautions. Things could be reopened with much less problems.
Just fucking do it really. Perhaps it hasn’t been communicated very well by such luminaries as the President but it’s not particularly complicated. It’s worked well elsewhere.
You’re complaining about ‘endlessly shifting reasons’ when the PotUS is a huge part of why those supposed reasons have shifted.
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Multiple reasons can be valid too. "They cited multiple reasons to not exhibit dangerous behavior, the reasons don't even have meaning anymore" is basically the pandemic equivalent of "racism has lost all its meaning because people use it in more than one way".
If your feelings about why people are asking you to take care of yourself and others not only constitute "telling people what to do and think", but also rate higher on your radar than the president telling people to inject disinfectant and to slow down testing, I'm terribly sorry. You need to just do the thing.
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On July 18 2020 10:04 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities. Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave. And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue. These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed. My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them. In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths. Just wear a mask, socially distance, just follow precautions it’s not that hard. If people followed these basic precautions. Things could be reopened with much less problems. Just fucking do it really. Perhaps it hasn’t been communicated very well by such luminaries as the President but it’s not particularly complicated. It’s worked well elsewhere. You’re complaining about ‘endlessly shifting reasons’ when the PotUS is a huge part of why those supposed reasons have shifted.
The “what to do personally” is not hard. I’m building out the theory on why people sometimes aren’t doing them, and what to do next time.
Full discussion of who’s to blame and why is more of a political question for a political thread. “Just fucking do it” might work for scared children, but not free adults. Particularly for adults that by and large did wear masks and distance for three long months, before governors and public health officials proved themselves and embarrassment to their positions and professions. But that’s more for next time, since the wet markets are back open, and pandemics of this size occur on regular cycles.
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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
On July 18 2020 10:30 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 10:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities. Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave. And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue. These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed. My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them. In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths. Just wear a mask, socially distance, just follow precautions it’s not that hard. If people followed these basic precautions. Things could be reopened with much less problems. Just fucking do it really. Perhaps it hasn’t been communicated very well by such luminaries as the President but it’s not particularly complicated. It’s worked well elsewhere. You’re complaining about ‘endlessly shifting reasons’ when the PotUS is a huge part of why those supposed reasons have shifted. The “what to do personally” is not hard. I’m building out the theory on why people sometimes aren’t doing them, and what to do next time. Full discussion of who’s to blame and why is more of a political question for a political thread. “Just fucking do it” might work for scared children, but not free adults. Particularly for adults that by and large did wear masks and distance for three long months, before governors and public health officials proved themselves and embarrassment to their positions and professions. But that’s more for next time, since the wet markets are back open, and pandemics of this size occur on regular cycles.
Where are these people that have worn masks and who aren’t doing so now, and for what reason have they shifted?
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On July 18 2020 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 10:30 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 10:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities. Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave. And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue. These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed. My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them. In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths. Just wear a mask, socially distance, just follow precautions it’s not that hard. If people followed these basic precautions. Things could be reopened with much less problems. Just fucking do it really. Perhaps it hasn’t been communicated very well by such luminaries as the President but it’s not particularly complicated. It’s worked well elsewhere. You’re complaining about ‘endlessly shifting reasons’ when the PotUS is a huge part of why those supposed reasons have shifted. The “what to do personally” is not hard. I’m building out the theory on why people sometimes aren’t doing them, and what to do next time. Full discussion of who’s to blame and why is more of a political question for a political thread. “Just fucking do it” might work for scared children, but not free adults. Particularly for adults that by and large did wear masks and distance for three long months, before governors and public health officials proved themselves and embarrassment to their positions and professions. But that’s more for next time, since the wet markets are back open, and pandemics of this size occur on regular cycles. Where are these people that have worn masks and who aren’t doing so now, and for what reason have they shifted?
I believe I covered most of the reasons you didn't already know in the first post your responded to. What about those explanations did you not understand, or rejected without comment?
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting.
100% why a lurk this section, but hardly post here. Having a different opinion results in a public shaming by quite a few of the heavy posters in this section. I am a non-racist 32 yr old white male who is also a fiscal conservative i.e middle of the road. It's hard to feel like I can have a voice in any fight without being discredited behind a bunch of labels before anyone has a chance to see my beliefs and know that I truly care for and want the best for everyone.
Edit: to be clear I also lurk hear because I love hearing everyone's opinions. I just don't like being attacked for mine.
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On July 18 2020 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 10:30 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 10:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities. Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave. And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue. These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed. My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them. In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths. Just wear a mask, socially distance, just follow precautions it’s not that hard. If people followed these basic precautions. Things could be reopened with much less problems. Just fucking do it really. Perhaps it hasn’t been communicated very well by such luminaries as the President but it’s not particularly complicated. It’s worked well elsewhere. You’re complaining about ‘endlessly shifting reasons’ when the PotUS is a huge part of why those supposed reasons have shifted. The “what to do personally” is not hard. I’m building out the theory on why people sometimes aren’t doing them, and what to do next time. Full discussion of who’s to blame and why is more of a political question for a political thread. “Just fucking do it” might work for scared children, but not free adults. Particularly for adults that by and large did wear masks and distance for three long months, before governors and public health officials proved themselves and embarrassment to their positions and professions. But that’s more for next time, since the wet markets are back open, and pandemics of this size occur on regular cycles. Where are these people that have worn masks and who aren’t doing so now, and for what reason have they shifted?
They exist. I cited a poll a while back that showed a disconnect between those who had ever worn a mask and those in favor of mask mandate. Those who have refused to wear a mask ever are a pretty small portion of the populace, ~12% iirc. an additional 10% have worn a mask at least once, but only 78% were in favor a mask mandate. So it is a small but not insignificant portion of people that have worn them but don't want to wear them all the time in public.
As for why they stopped wearing them, I don't know. I do have some thoughts on it.
There are some legitimate issues about how masks were presented to the American public - at first we were told it was dangerous to wear them and if you read the explanation given, it amounted to "Americans are too dumb to wear them properly". The frequently theorized reason that it was to prevent a run on masks to keep Drs from getting them makes more sense, but a legitimate amount of deception happened on the topic if that was the case.
The science on them also still isn't clear on HOW much they help (538 has some articles on the subject, where they talked to researchers who are puzzled by the public drastic shift in opinion, despite no differences in study results). This is an academic/statistical question, though, not a policy question, but some people could conflate the two easily.
The reason to wear them is that it is easy, cheap,harmless, and likely has at least some positive effects on preventing spread. So it is literally the least people can do - if it drops r by 0.00001 it is still worth doing, considering the minimal cost. Some people have legitimate reasons why wearing a mask is difficult - those on the spectrum and those with certain sensory issues have difficulty wearing them. That's not 12% of the population, or even close, though.
It has become something of a symbolic gesture, which is silly, tbh. Masks are no replacement for social distancing,frequent hand washing (I prefer sanitizer, as it has less variability in effectiveness), and avoiding crowded areas (especially indoors).
Now, there has been some partisan flip flopping on the issue, but I'd rather give people more credit than assuming they blindly believe everything certain politicians tell them (they don't, or half the country would have injected bleach a while back).
If we want to talk about the specific politics of mask mandates, the politics thread is better suited. This thread is fine for talking about the pros and cons and why some people don't want to wear them, and their general effectiveness. We are basically doing a large scale study of whether or not they help - most trackers include whether a state has a mask mandate now.
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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
On July 18 2020 12:35 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 18 2020 10:30 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 10:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. The demographic disparity in this forum is one reason people here can't understand why mask protests result from capricious and poorly-executed lockdown orders. It's like a repeat of the LA race riots people wondering why rioters were burning down their own communities. Similarly, people telling middle aged and older citizens what they have to think and do and vote, for their own good, squares with their own philosophy. School-age children are incredibly rare to spread or become dangerously sick from it, but everybody wants to shut down schools. States that shut down early, basically avoiding the first wave that devastated states like New York & New Jersey, get their first wave, and everyone erupts in hysteria and calls it a second wave. They're quick to blame governors, failing to appreciate states that stopped lockdowns early and did not get a massive wave, or states that only partially relaxed lockdowns, and did get a big wave. And don't get me started on the absolute nuclear bomb of governors supporting mass protests, and expected to be taken seriously when they say you can't have 10 friends over for a barbecue. These things kind of bounce off the far-left to left-leaning dominant readership of this forum, because their biases are in trusting socially-aligned authorities and overlooking mistakes from perspectives they usually agree with. It's sort of baked into the human psyche. Americans, by and large, will not stay locked up for endlessly shifting reasons (Hospital capacity no wait Total Cases no wait Deaths no wait Until The Vaccine no wait Until The Govt Says So) and I don't really blame them. All this gets dismissed. My own work area of LA schools demanded safety precautions and funding to reopen during COVID ... alongside defunding the police and stopping charter schools and Medicare For All. Do not wonder how that kind of statement was received by people assured that they were just "trusting the data," or whatever slogan we're on to now. Some people's protests that can't be delayed are other people's gathering in church. Some person's mantra of saving just one more life, no matter the cost, is another's life work of 30 years closed and not coming back. That's what it takes to understand the US, a country people posting here share with others that don't think like them. In other news, good continuing signs of plateau in AZ and FL, and a bit too early to tell for TX. Hospitals have been able to transfer patients and stay below the sort of overcapacity that might spike deaths. Just wear a mask, socially distance, just follow precautions it’s not that hard. If people followed these basic precautions. Things could be reopened with much less problems. Just fucking do it really. Perhaps it hasn’t been communicated very well by such luminaries as the President but it’s not particularly complicated. It’s worked well elsewhere. You’re complaining about ‘endlessly shifting reasons’ when the PotUS is a huge part of why those supposed reasons have shifted. The “what to do personally” is not hard. I’m building out the theory on why people sometimes aren’t doing them, and what to do next time. Full discussion of who’s to blame and why is more of a political question for a political thread. “Just fucking do it” might work for scared children, but not free adults. Particularly for adults that by and large did wear masks and distance for three long months, before governors and public health officials proved themselves and embarrassment to their positions and professions. But that’s more for next time, since the wet markets are back open, and pandemics of this size occur on regular cycles. Where are these people that have worn masks and who aren’t doing so now, and for what reason have they shifted? I believe I covered most of the reasons you didn't already know in the first post your responded to. What about those explanations did you not understand, or rejected without comment?
What are your reasons? I don’t wish to comment on stuff I don’t recall exactly what you’ve posted so don’t want to misrepresent here.
I do remember the mixed messaging on the effectiveness of masks early doors being part of said explanation.
Which seems to have been a consequence of mask shortage at the time.
The messaging when scarcity was a factor made them out to be ineffective, and now having been told they’re ineffective people aren’t too fussed on wearing them.
Which is bad messaging really. If the message was ‘masks are useful but we don’t have enough’ then you don’t have this current issue.
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On July 19 2020 02:16 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2020 09:45 Danglars wrote:On July 18 2020 08:14 Nevuk wrote:
TL self selects for a lot of the people least affected in the US. It trends younger and techier than the general population. Working from home literally changed my productivity for the better, andy pay went up (I'm a programmer). Tech jobs have widely been unaffected or improved as far as qol goes. I know I'm insanely lucky, though.
While there are plenty of young idiots of all stripes in the US, young spring breakers in Florida don't exactly have the political power or the will to fight to keep businesses open.
The people fighting hardest against mask measures etc. are statistically older demographics who (ironically) are those most likely to die from not implementing them (social distancing). Those same people also generally don't care about esports. Same reason US posters trend more left leaning than the average US voter (Danglars is basically a middle of the road Republican overall). They definitely exist, they just don't post here. A lot more Republicans/right of center used to post here many years ago, but you can read up in multiple Website Feedback the actions taken by users and moderators that ended with most gone, banned, or rarely posting. 100% why a lurk this section, but hardly post here. Having a different opinion results in a public shaming by quite a few of the heavy posters in this section. I am a non-racist 32 yr old white male who is also a fiscal conservative i.e middle of the road. It's hard to feel like I can have a voice in any fight without being discredited behind a bunch of labels before anyone has a chance to see my beliefs and know that I truly care for and want the best for everyone. Edit: to be clear I also lurk hear because I love hearing everyone's opinions. I just don't like being attacked for mine.
This is one of my sources to hear how “the other side thinks,” and it has cleared up some puzzling concepts to read arguments made in earnest from world views so opposite my own.
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Does it really matter what "the other side" thinks though? It's not like whoever ends up getting elected actually cares about the voters who put them there. Legislation's made for corporate america, not the people.
So opinions really don't matter, they're just a tool to get re-elected and then both parties can carry on f***ing over the middle class until there's nothing left of it.
Not my opinion, just an observation of the last 3 decades...*
But to get back on topic, 85 babies in Texas tested positive for covid-19
*edit:
Well, that's not true, it's obviously my opinion...apologies for the snarky remark. But the frustration "is strong in this one."
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On July 19 2020 04:08 thePunGun wrote:Does it really matter what "the other side" thinks though? It's not like whoever ends up getting elected actually cares about the voters who put them there. Legislation's made for corporate america, not the people. So opinions really don't matter, they're just a tool to get re-elected and then both parties can carry on f***ing over the middle class until there's nothing left of it. Not my opinion, just an observation of the last 3 decades...* But to get back on topic, 85 babies in Texas tested positive for covid-19*edit: Well, that's not true, it's obviously my opinion...apologies for the snarky remark. But the frustration "is strong in this one."
I genuinely enjoy listening to opinions that differ with my own. However I only enjoy listening. I hate sharing my opinion because usually those who think differently from me ridicule me.
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So this goes into the discussion we had before in the thread. People latched onto one paragraph in the AAP's statement and ran with it. They saw the AAP say all kids do best in school and decided to use it as justification to re-open schools, ignoring the rest of statement that argues that there is no one size fits all solution and measures have to be implemented to ensure the safety of not only children but adults.
Not surprisingly at all, Florida's AAP has sent a letter to DeSantis stating just that. Kids need to go back to school but you can't open schools in Florida because coronavirus is not controlled in Florida. Kids go to school, get infected with coronavirus, bring it home, get parents sick and potentially put them out of work with long term illnesses or kill them. Its not a sustainable strategy without the virus being controlled. You don't have to eradicate it but you can't have 10,000 cases per day.
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Came across a pretty interesting long-form article from the NYT on the Trump response to the coronavirus. It's told in the "staffer narrative" format that these long articles often are, but it did have a few interesting tidbits describing how things went downhill:
1. The response largely told the states they were on their own in dealing with this.
2. Any help the states did receive seemed to come with a requirement of trading political favors.
3. That whole saga with Trump playing dress-up as a "wartime president" through the crisis.
4. Once tests and ventilators were no longer in short supply, there was a heavy push to drop any of the quarantine measures.
5. Probably most strategically troublesome: an overreliance on models that suggested that the disease would follow Italy's sharp decline curve, and that it would be unlikely that a second surge in case load would not come before fall.
On top of all that, it's quite troubling that for all that, and for the fact that the surge in US cases has become so prevalent that it can no longer be ignored, most states (even ones that initially handled it "well") are still in the early March stage of responding to the renewed crisis (i.e. just starting to realize that maybe there's a problem). Realizing what the consequences of a second lockdown would be (for one, it'd tank "the economy" with more ferocity than the first wave because there would be no more illusion that this is a well-controlled one-off), it seems that a wider lockdown is a question of when, not if. Knowing that the "herd immunity" strategy will just mean six months of uncontrolled spread with hundreds of thousands of more deaths (i.e. untenable), and the number of states with a positive trend could be counted on one hand, wider lockdown #2 is only a matter of time.
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EPT
