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On October 10 2019 12:33 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 12:08 meiji_emperor wrote:On October 10 2019 12:01 BronzeKnee wrote:
Wow, you really butchered and perverted the definition of Capitalism. Adam Smith is rolling in his grave.
cap·i·tal·ism
/ˈkapədlˌizəm/
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
China's trade and industry are heavily manipulated by the state.
China is known as state capitalism. It is similar to Bismark's Germany and Japan from Meiji era on wards. The state directs investment and controls major industries such as steel, coal, railways, etc. but operates these industries according to principals of capitalism: profit and expansion, rather than to satisfy human needs. Other sectors are dominated by private firms and operate also for profit. "State capitalism" doesn't exist, mutually exclusive concepts. Control doesn't have to mean ownership. Has no one read The Wealth of Nations? There is no invisible hand when China is manipulating their currency. No invisible hand when tariffs are being applied.
You are misrepresenting Smith. The invisible hand is a tiny concept mentioned once and is used in an argument that capital and labor working for profit in domestic industry brings good to all of society. It was Smith's way of saying that due to Gods benevolence, man working towards his own profit brings good to all of creation. Whether or not this statement is true can be studied and debated. However you cannot elevate a small concept mentioned once in Smith's master piece as the defining characteristic of capitalism.
But the annual revenue of every society is always precisely equal to the exchangeable value of the whole annual produce of its industry, or ratheris precisely the same thing with that exchangeable value. As every individual, therefore, endeavours as much as he can both to employ his capital in the support of domestic industry, and so to direct that industry that it sproduce may be of the greatest value; every individual necessarily laboursto render the annual revenue of the society as great as he can. He generally, indeed, neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that offoreign industry, he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was no part of it.'
From Book IV Chapter II
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On October 10 2019 11:28 Kerotan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 11:17 RealityTheGreat wrote:On October 10 2019 09:17 Kerotan wrote:On October 10 2019 08:59 RealityTheGreat wrote:
Blizzard doesn't like to mix up politic and games.
For example, no Blizzard Game bases on real world politic background.
Games and politics are always going to be related: They are quite happy to get into politics when they make Tracer a woman who likes woman. They want to avoid all the argument, but this(Tracer) is not a correct decision. When the player said those, Blizzard obey its rule, not for politic. They want to avoid all the argument
Well that went well lol. Blizzard obey its rule, not for politicRead the rule. All rules are political when it comes to enforcement. This one is especially so as the text of the rule emphasises its arbitrary nature. Sole discretion. Yes Blizzard are enforcing their rules, but when the rule is an arbitrary one people will call them out on it. The decision that blizzard made to enforce is political. No getting round it. Blizzard could also ban a hearthstone player for saying "women deserve the right to vote". It would be a lot less of a contentious statement but there is a public out there who don't believe women should be allowed to vote, and thus at Blizzards sole discretion, they could penalise this theoretical hearthstone player too.
There should be one more reason for Blizzard, except supporting independence of HK or China government.
We watch game for fun, not for politics.
People think Blizzard's choice is supporting China government, it is a mistake. The banned player damaged Blizzard image.
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On October 10 2019 13:41 RealityTheGreat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 11:28 Kerotan wrote:On October 10 2019 11:17 RealityTheGreat wrote:On October 10 2019 09:17 Kerotan wrote:On October 10 2019 08:59 RealityTheGreat wrote:
Blizzard doesn't like to mix up politic and games.
For example, no Blizzard Game bases on real world politic background.
Games and politics are always going to be related: They are quite happy to get into politics when they make Tracer a woman who likes woman. They want to avoid all the argument, but this(Tracer) is not a correct decision. When the player said those, Blizzard obey its rule, not for politic. They want to avoid all the argument
Well that went well lol. Blizzard obey its rule, not for politicRead the rule. All rules are political when it comes to enforcement. This one is especially so as the text of the rule emphasises its arbitrary nature. Sole discretion. Yes Blizzard are enforcing their rules, but when the rule is an arbitrary one people will call them out on it. The decision that blizzard made to enforce is political. No getting round it. Blizzard could also ban a hearthstone player for saying "women deserve the right to vote". It would be a lot less of a contentious statement but there is a public out there who don't believe women should be allowed to vote, and thus at Blizzards sole discretion, they could penalise this theoretical hearthstone player too. There should be one more reason for Blizzard, except supporting independence of HK or China government. We watch game for fun, not for politics. People think Blizzard's choice is supporting China government, it is a mistake. The banned player damaged Blizzard image.
One way to prove that is to ban pro-China government statement as well. But that would probably make life of Blizzard even harder...
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Good thing being a capitalist gives me a good reason to be an asshole (and I LOVE being an asshole). And that reason is what else? The only thing that matters, moneh moneh moneh moneeeeh, mAAneeeeh. As I sit on my moral (and greeen) high horse, I’ve got a good reason to kick you naysayers in the balls if it makes me more money, and would feel perfectly justified in doing so. Your hippie crap logic is forfeit (as well as your balls) because money is the be-all and end-all, and anyone thinking otherwise has GOT to be insane. Don’t even waste your time arguing with me, cause you’d be wasting my time. Common human decency is but a handicap if you want to play the game, and I’m a fuckin’ progamer son, almighty dollah-aah, mo-neh.
Oh yea, and Blitzchunk or whatever his name is BROKE TEH FUCKING RULES AS STATED IN BLIZZARD’S CONTRACT/TERMS OF SERVICE  Didn’t they teach you kids to respect the rules and laws in school? Without rules and laws, what would we have? That’s right, absolute CHAOS. I think it’s worth giving up some freedoms in exchange for peace and stability (and also money). I would gladly be China’s dog if I got another yacht (or several) out of it, I don’t care how short the leash is. I wouldn’t be just any dog, I’d be CAPTAIN dog, bitches *woof*
Good thing people have short memories and Blizzard executives be like, wait a couple of weeks for this thing to blow over when people forget and chase the newest scandal, just in time for BlizzCon! (anyone else get their tickets?) And if there’s still some stubborn people who just wouldn’t let things go, Blizzard can always play the “Let’s make another Overwatch character gay” card just to show everyone how progressive they are. Who do you think it’s going to be? Place your bets now! Personally, I’m hoping for Mei/Dva/Hanzo.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Blizzard could also ban a hearthstone player for saying "women deserve the right to vote". It would be a lot less of a contentious statement but there is a public out there who don't believe women should be allowed to vote, and thus at Blizzards sole discretion, they could penalise this theoretical hearthstone player too.
I think nobody here has made a complaint about Blizzard (or anyone) trying to keep political statements away from official gamingstreams or their tournaments.
The way they did it (in this case) just shows that they are willing to bend the knee to chinese state censorship, because they know that the propaganda machinery can destroy their marketshare within days, or that their services will be outright banned.
And they are not alone. And it is not about "gaming" or "sports". It's everywhere.
Right now:
Southpark is outright banned in China for S23 clearly stating how they feel about chinese propaganda interacting with western companies.
- In 2018 Google re-entered China - with censored services
- NBA is under fire for ONE PERSON retweeting "Support HK"
- Blizzard was under fire for not controlling their Stream quickly enough, quickly to destroy not only the players career, but also the one of the casters/interviewers
- The shoemaker "Vans" withdrew a design from a contest, because it featured a red bauhinia flower and yellow umbrella (Symbol of HK Protestors) and people in gas masks
- Apple is accused of not taking down Apps from the AppStore that are used by HK protestors - At least they have not pulled the app as of yet.
- Luxury jewellery retailer "Tiffany &Co" deleted pictures of an advertisement campaign in which the model covered her right eye - a similar picture to the HK paramedic that got shot in the eye with rubber bullets
![[image loading]](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/10/08/12/19439902-0-image-a-44_1570533539313.jpg)
Sources:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-vans/shoemaker-vans-treads-warily-as-china-fumes-over-hong-kong-idUSKBN1WN0IZ
https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/news-analysis/vans-competition-pulls-sneaker-brand-into-hong-kong-political-row
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7549977/Tiffany-removes-photo-Chinese-consumers-accused-jeweller-supporting-Hong-Kong-protests.html
If you think, this is all about one player who misbehaved and got the punishment he deserved.. you are wrong.
If western companies globally take down content, in fear of chinese propaganda turning it against them in the chinese market, and people who are protesting beijing breaking promises to Hong Kong have to open umbrellas to not be monitored by facial recognition camera towers, than reality has become a dystopia.
Edit:
Aaaaaaaaaaand Apple has pulled the App from Appstore HongKong
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On October 10 2019 11:02 LG)Sabbath wrote:
And in other news:
Thank you for sharing this, that is absolutely bloody insane.
Blizzard practically shut down the option for people to delete their Blizzard account.
So Blizzard want to suck up to China but if any of their customers in the west disagree with their low morals and dont want to be a customer of Blizzard anymore they have to be? They literally took away our option to opt out of this disgusting company. Not only are their actions abhorrent, when they realize how much bad publicity this hsa gotten their reaction isn't to issue a statment and retract the wrong that they did, they instead try to take away our option to leave?
For anyone still talking about he broke the rules he deserved to be punished. He literally broke the rule that says:
- Don't do anything Blizzard don't like or we will punish you.
According to the rules Blizzard could enac the same punishment on a player wearing a green shirt on air, because showing that specific colour could be offensive to X minority. Even though Blizzard would be in the right to do so according to the rules do you all think something like that would be fair? If you really think a rules are always fine no matter how badly they are written then you are in my opinion, a fool.
Edit: I have said this over and over, even if you think the punishment agains the player was fair. What about the casters?
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
If only all these people put all thsi effort to force their government to do something. But unfortunetally, we live in a time when people care more about Blizzard then their own politicians and what their own government does...
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On October 10 2019 10:50 BerserkSword wrote:
Blizzard was completely within its rights regarding the actions it took, and it did nothing wrong.
It is trying to maintain access to its 2nd/3rd biggest market, and likely its most rapidly growing market.
freedom of speech =/= saying whatever you want, whenever you want, without consequences.
The HS player hijacked Blizzard's platform, broke the ELUA, and jeopardized the ability of Blizzard to do business in one of its major markets.
Blizzard choosing to stay apolitical =/= complicity with China.
If the people who are outraged over this want to be consistent and non hypocritical, they should show this outrage to companies such as Apple, Nike, Ford, GM, Costco, Walmart, etc as well.
If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, the U.S. and its NATO cronies have engaged in practices that violate human rights as well. Might as well speak out against NATO countries and companies associated with them as well.
So why exactly were the two casters fired? What EULA did they break?
Let's not fool ourselves thinking this has got anything to do with EULA. It has everything to do about Blizzard desire to get into the chinese market.
The same shit is happening with NBA now. It's either you support an oppressive regime or you lose billions of dollars.
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I have the utmost faith in the Chinese people.
Repeatedly throughout history they have been doubted and mocked. I know first hand that they are intelligent, courageous, passionate and strong. They possess a rich history in philosophy, science and mathematics. They put their families and communities before themselves and act with the utmost generosity to those in dire need.
And whilst the spotlight is on China for its present and past human rights abuses, we must not shy away from bringing our awareness to such abuses in our own Western nations. For we all know too well the heinous crimes against humanity that colonialism has wrought throughout the world and the unjust wars we have entered into.
The responsible and unbiased line then, is to allow the question to arise:
'Who are WE to condemn China for their actions, when our own nations have repeatedly committed worse?'
Then WE are forced to answer: We are those who will not tolerate human rights abuses upon the planet. We are not a nation, we are humans of this earth who believe humans have inalienable rights, rights that each and everyone one of us is born with.
And it is our belief in humanity itself that offers a golden glimmer of hope from the Blizzard - Hearthstone debacle, the detentions in Xinjiang, the protests in Hong Kong, the corruption in Western democracies and its unjustly waged wars:
We know it will come to pass that the Chinese people will join hands with us and us with them and together, like the phoenix, we will rise up from ashes of dead soldiers and citizens alike to overthrow the corrupt dictatorship of the Communist Chinese Party with its indefinitely installed demigod like leader Xi Xinping.
And we will do the same to any other nation that commits human rights abuses on such a scale.
I have the utmost faith in the Chinese people.
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On October 10 2019 16:20 Shuffleblade wrote:Thank you for sharing this, that is absolutely bloody insane. Blizzard practically shut down the option for people to delete their Blizzard account. So Blizzard want to suck up to China but if any of their customers in the west disagree with their low morals and dont want to be a customer of Blizzard anymore they have to be? They literally took away our option to opt out of this disgusting company. Not only are their actions abhorrent, when they realize how much bad publicity this hsa gotten their reaction isn't to issue a statment and retract the wrong that they did, they instead try to take away our option to leave? For anyone still talking about he broke the rules he deserved to be punished. He literally broke the rule that says: - Don't do anything Blizzard don't like or we will punish you. According to the rules Blizzard could enac the same punishment on a player wearing a green shirt on air, because showing that specific colour could be offensive to X minority. Even though Blizzard would be in the right to do so according to the rules do you all think something like that would be fair? If you really think a rules are always fine no matter how badly they are written then you are in my opinion, a fool.
I don´t know if blizzard has actually disabled the feature, or this is just "a bug" that one person has.
For sure, deleting your account, with all the games and MTX on it will be the only consequent way that you never touch Blizzard products ever again. Just deleting the app or a WoW sub would take unhuman willpower to not ever getting back into the (very good) games.
Right now Blizzard just expects this to blow over, and that the impact on western market will not be that high, because players that #boycottblizzard will come back anyway, and most people just won't ever notice what's going on in the first place.
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On October 10 2019 16:29 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:20 Shuffleblade wrote:Thank you for sharing this, that is absolutely bloody insane. Blizzard practically shut down the option for people to delete their Blizzard account. So Blizzard want to suck up to China but if any of their customers in the west disagree with their low morals and dont want to be a customer of Blizzard anymore they have to be? They literally took away our option to opt out of this disgusting company. Not only are their actions abhorrent, when they realize how much bad publicity this hsa gotten their reaction isn't to issue a statment and retract the wrong that they did, they instead try to take away our option to leave? For anyone still talking about he broke the rules he deserved to be punished. He literally broke the rule that says: - Don't do anything Blizzard don't like or we will punish you. According to the rules Blizzard could enac the same punishment on a player wearing a green shirt on air, because showing that specific colour could be offensive to X minority. Even though Blizzard would be in the right to do so according to the rules do you all think something like that would be fair? If you really think a rules are always fine no matter how badly they are written then you are in my opinion, a fool. I don´t know if blizzard has actually disabled the feature, or this is just "a bug" that one person has. For sure, deleting your account, with all the games and MTX on it will be the only consequent way that you never touch Blizzard products ever again. Just deleting the app or a WoW sub would take unhuman willpower to not ever getting back into the (very good) games. Right now Blizzard just expects this to blow over, and that the impact on western market will not be that high, because players that #boycottblizzard will come back anyway, and most people just won't ever notice what's going on in the first place.
I understand you didn't check the tweet
https://reclaimthenet.org/blizzard-disables-authentication-user-accounts/
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On October 09 2019 16:11 pzlama333 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 15:37 abuse wrote:On October 09 2019 15:26 Haukinger wrote:On October 09 2019 15:19 abuse wrote:
You say mixing up sports and politics is frowned upon, yet, Blizzard is allowed to be as political as they want.
Do you know that in the Overwatch league the Taiwanese team isn't called Taiwan but "Chinese Taipei" and the players are not allowed to even use their own country's flag because Blizzard doesn't want to kiss up to China to enter their market, and China thinks Taiwan is still their territory.
And south tirolean athletes are forced to compete under the italian flag, and there's the organizer's egalitarian ads in soccer matches and so on. Of course, sports are used for political agitation, but that doesn't make adding to it less bad. First off, South Tyrol isn't a country(not recognized at least). Taiwan is. Second, you're just proving my point here. Organizations can do whatever the fuck they want, both in my case and . First, Taiwan is not a country. United Nation does not recognize it. United States does not recognize it. Russia does not recognize it. United Kingdom, France, and all European Union countries do not recognize it. Most countries in the world do not recognize it. Even Taiwan's own "constitution", claim itself as part of China, under the name of "Republic of China". Technically, the mainland and the government in the island are still at full war state, and there is not even a cease fire. Second, Blizzard has its rules and will follow it. Anyone who compete an official competition also must accept it. If someone break the rules, whatever it is cheating or insulting other people, Blizzard has and will use its power. Not only Blizzard, most major sports organizations all have such rules. One example is FIFA, which bans all politics in any soccer event. 3. The riots and terrorists in Hong Kong do not seek freedom of speech. They seek freedom of making crimes and separation by force. They burn subway and banks, loot shops, block airport, and attack police, tourists and random people on street. If anyone want to support such actions, I assume that they are no difference with 9/11 attackers.
Totally agreed.
I am in hong kong right now. TL community has no idea what is actually going on in hong kong and how ridiculous, radical, and violent those riots have became.
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Greetings,
Your request to remove your Blizzard account's data has been accepted and is now in processing.
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Feels Good.
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Blizzard has disable the feature because it knows people outrage will be watered down in few months, a new thing will happen that will shift our focus. As it has happened countless of times before. Who still thinks of immigrants drown in the mediterranean? Or the amazonas on fire? And those are things that are currently happening... things in the past? I cant even recall them
Sad but true. We are shortsighted and we have to change
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Wow Sorry ! I really just saw that one screenshot over and over again.
Wow Blizzard....Wow...really ?
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As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact.
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On October 10 2019 16:40 jin8612cn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 16:11 pzlama333 wrote:On October 09 2019 15:37 abuse wrote:On October 09 2019 15:26 Haukinger wrote:On October 09 2019 15:19 abuse wrote:
You say mixing up sports and politics is frowned upon, yet, Blizzard is allowed to be as political as they want.
Do you know that in the Overwatch league the Taiwanese team isn't called Taiwan but "Chinese Taipei" and the players are not allowed to even use their own country's flag because Blizzard doesn't want to kiss up to China to enter their market, and China thinks Taiwan is still their territory.
And south tirolean athletes are forced to compete under the italian flag, and there's the organizer's egalitarian ads in soccer matches and so on. Of course, sports are used for political agitation, but that doesn't make adding to it less bad. First off, South Tyrol isn't a country(not recognized at least). Taiwan is. Second, you're just proving my point here. Organizations can do whatever the fuck they want, both in my case and . First, Taiwan is not a country. United Nation does not recognize it. United States does not recognize it. Russia does not recognize it. United Kingdom, France, and all European Union countries do not recognize it. Most countries in the world do not recognize it. Even Taiwan's own "constitution", claim itself as part of China, under the name of "Republic of China". Technically, the mainland and the government in the island are still at full war state, and there is not even a cease fire. Second, Blizzard has its rules and will follow it. Anyone who compete an official competition also must accept it. If someone break the rules, whatever it is cheating or insulting other people, Blizzard has and will use its power. Not only Blizzard, most major sports organizations all have such rules. One example is FIFA, which bans all politics in any soccer event. 3. The riots and terrorists in Hong Kong do not seek freedom of speech. They seek freedom of making crimes and separation by force. They burn subway and banks, loot shops, block airport, and attack police, tourists and random people on street. If anyone want to support such actions, I assume that they are no difference with 9/11 attackers. Totally agreed. I am in hong kong right now. TL community has no idea what is actually going on in hong kong and how ridiculous, radical, and violent those riots have became.
I have no idea and I don't care "how bad" protesters are acting in HK right now. All that matters is that China should GTFO of HKs democractic system and honor the deal they signed 1984, give HK their autonomy as promised.
That in itself would solve those violent riots without having to resort to violence. That is not to say I support protesters doing violent actions but the problem is not the protests, its China not upholding its honor and respecting the deal they themselves signed.
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On October 10 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:
If only all these people put all thsi effort to force their government to do something. But unfortunetally, we live in a time when people care more about Blizzard then their own politicians and what their own government does...
How do you know they aren't?
You might be surprised to hear this, but passionate gamers are not the only people living on this planet. There are plenty of overlap between gamers, and people who are passionate about politics. There are, however, also a lot of people out there who arent gamers and who's also not into politics.
Check out the TL US politics thread and you'll see plenty of people caring about politics there, and that's probably the most consistently busiest thread on all of TL.
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People vision of violence is quite funny: Countries/politicians signing up documents to enforce laws that condemn millions to poverty and famine is consider a "non-violent act" yet those affected people rebelling against those documents is "violence" or some even suggest "terrorism"
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Wow.... There is so much shit going on...
1- We shouldn't talk about things we dont know shit about, and the protests in Hong Kong, their intensity, their reasons, historic background, etc. are one of those things. If we believe everything media tell us, well, we are stupid af. And i'm refering to both sides.
2- Its funny seeing most of these complains about Blizzard's sucking to a totalitarian regime come from the UUSS, a country that has been behaving like if they own the world and have been killing and invading other countries much more than China ever has... China has been repressing and killing people within their "country", USA has been doing it all over the world. In my opinion both countries are making the world a worse place, specially these last couple of years...
3- Are you really surprised about Blizzard's move??? They have been behaving like a heartless company for like a decade now... Then they associate with Netease and start developing Diablo Immortal basically for the chinese market... Of course they were gonna side with China, they would have done it with Satan if that meant they are gonna keep the benefits.
While I agree with the general feeling of "Blizzard sucking up to a totalitarian communist regime to keep the benefits" I can't help to see all the ignorance and the hypocrisy there is...
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBypRXoXkAAVsWs?format=jpg&name=small)
