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On October 10 2019 17:50 jy_9876543210 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work. Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment. Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots) Yeah of course, when the extradition bill was proposed, Taiwan government clearly claimed that even if the bill passes, they would not agree on extraditing the criminal at the cost of sacrificing the freedom in HongKong. So if the murder is the cause, there's no reason to move on and everything can go back to normal. The fact that HongKong government still wants to force it out tells that it's not that simple.
Taiwan? Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC. And please try to know the entire storyline and their so called “5 appeal and no one less” and the response from the commissioner, besides the extradition, they ask the police release all arrested riots and punish the people who have the fight with them, and force the commissioner to resign. is it the freedom you support? They can do whatever they want and get no punishment and people against them shall get arrested? If the government agree all of their appeal, then what would you think the hk will be? When you feel unhappy about the government, you just walk into the street, fight against the police, burning shops and banks, and ask the government must listen to you?
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Obviously this thread is no longer related to Blizzard banning HearthStone GM or Esports in gneral. Someone please move this thread to where it belongs with other politics threads.
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It’s a complicated issue. in fact, Chinese government is not afraid to let hk people choose independence or not (I can tell you hk will be 100% stay in hk by vote), but if they allow hk to do this, They cannot declare Taiwan is a part of China any more (for sure majority of Taiwanese think they are independent) . And maybe further Muslim issue etc. It is not just about hk, and I don’t want to comment too much about PRC policy to Taiwan
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What does extradition to Taiwan got to do with China? China has no extradition laws with Taiwan in the first place. China wants extradition with Hong Kong so no one notices when they abduct people. If China an extradite people from Hong Kong, they certainly wouldn't be doing so at the bequest of Taiwan.
On October 10 2019 18:23 CraigWT wrote:
(for sure majority of Taiwanese think they are independent) They don't think they are independent. They are independent. Something people of Hong Kong are not.
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And what I said before is very common in global politics. Like Spain politicians never jump out and say we support hk to be independent since if they say so, how could they deal with the Catalonia issue
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On October 10 2019 18:18 CraigWT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 17:50 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work. Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment. Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots) Yeah of course, when the extradition bill was proposed, Taiwan government clearly claimed that even if the bill passes, they would not agree on extraditing the criminal at the cost of sacrificing the freedom in HongKong. So if the murder is the cause, there's no reason to move on and everything can go back to normal. The fact that HongKong government still wants to force it out tells that it's not that simple. Taiwan? Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC. And please try to know the entire storyline and their so called “5 appeal and no one less” and the response from the commissioner, besides the extradition, they ask the police release all arrested riots and punish the people who have the fight with them, and force the commissioner to resign. is it the freedom you support? They can do whatever they want and get no punishment and people against them shall get arrested? If the government agree all of their appeal, then what would you think the hk will be? When you feel unhappy about the government, you just walk into the street, fight against the police, burning shops and banks, and ask the government must listen to you?
“Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC.” Well yeah now western government really have bad relationship with PRC, too, so people should support anything that's against PRC. What's the point?
Why is so hard to admit that withdrawing (not amending) the extradition bill could have alleviated the situation and maybe even stopped it in the beginning?
About the rest of the post, we were talking about "what started this protest and what could have been done to end it early" and you are again talking about "we can't do it now it's too late", which is totally irrelevant.
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In my view this discussion should be a lot more about the company that disproportionally punishes an esports player of one of their games just for (future) financial prospects than about the country where these prospects lie.
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On October 10 2019 18:26 Dangermousecatdog wrote:What does extradition to Taiwan got to do with China? China has no extradition laws with Taiwan in the first place. China wants extradition with Hong Kong so no one notices when they abduct people. If China an extradite people from Hong Kong, they certainly wouldn't be doing so at the bequest of Taiwan. Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 18:23 CraigWT wrote:
(for sure majority of Taiwanese think they are independent) They don't think they are independent. They are independent. Something people of Hong Kong are not.
Taiwan in fact is independent governed, but barely no country admit they are a independent nation. if PRC admit the result of their vote, then Taiwan can be legally independent and admitted by the entire world. So PRC will not allow this to happen (I don’t want to talk about the justice, just talk the fact) and prc will not admit any similar votes, whatever the result is.
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On October 10 2019 18:33 jy_9876543210 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 18:18 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:50 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work. Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment. Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots) Yeah of course, when the extradition bill was proposed, Taiwan government clearly claimed that even if the bill passes, they would not agree on extraditing the criminal at the cost of sacrificing the freedom in HongKong. So if the murder is the cause, there's no reason to move on and everything can go back to normal. The fact that HongKong government still wants to force it out tells that it's not that simple. Taiwan? Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC. And please try to know the entire storyline and their so called “5 appeal and no one less” and the response from the commissioner, besides the extradition, they ask the police release all arrested riots and punish the people who have the fight with them, and force the commissioner to resign. is it the freedom you support? They can do whatever they want and get no punishment and people against them shall get arrested? If the government agree all of their appeal, then what would you think the hk will be? When you feel unhappy about the government, you just walk into the street, fight against the police, burning shops and banks, and ask the government must listen to you? “Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC.” Well yeah now western government really have bad relationship with PRC, too, so people should support anything that's against PRC. What's the point? Why is so hard to admit that withdrawing (not amending) the extradition bill could have alleviated the situation and maybe even stopped it in the beginning? About the rest of the post, we were talking about "what started this protest and what could have been done to end it early" and you are again talking about "we can't do it now it's too late", which is totally irrelevant.
At very beginning, after the first march, government already compromised and do the amendment, but riots think that is not enough. So all hk people shall just listen to riots because they are dare to do the violence? Why you so believe that these riots stand for the majority of our hk people? Why you think our hk people support their appeal? Have you ever been to hk or recently visit hk? Why you think you know much more than our hk people ourselves about our will?
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Must be news to the people living there, with their own government, their own laws, their own military that they aren't independent. That PRC does not recognise China, does not make Taiwan stop existing. But it doesn't matter in any case as your positon is that the people of Hong Kong should just roll over and accept that the People's Republic of China does not adhere to agreements.
And yes, for your information I have been to HK recently and have visited it many times in the past.
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On October 10 2019 18:05 ilikeredheads wrote:
The extradition bill is just a catalyst, the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. People in HK generally prefer not to get involved in politics but there has been a lot of built up frustration at the HK government over the years, not only at their incompetence but also the way the officials suck up to Beijing by introducing policies that slowly take away their freedom. Many just want to get on with their lives and dont' really care about independence, as long as China doesn't encroach on their current rights. They want a government where there's some sense of accountability, and tired of seeing it run by idiots.
Another brainwashed guy. The real problem of hk is the living quality of ordinary people getting worse and worse and young people feel hopeless about their future, and they are blaming this situation to hk government and PRC. HK have no freedom before 1984 and have no democracy before 1997. Now they have both. of course you can question about democracy, but for freedom, come to hk, you will feel way more “freedom” than in your country, you are free to burning the public area in hk, you are free to beat hk police, are you free to do this in your country?
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Just because the chinese are well organized, have the strength of their convictions so strongly that they strong arm whoever disagrees with them, well that doesn't mean people should fold.
I was going to buy the warchest before the Blizzcon but now I won't and I really have to review the fact that I only bought Blizzard games so far.
I can do better and I will try !
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On October 10 2019 18:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Must be news to the people living there, with their own government, their own laws, their own military that they aren't independent. That PRC does not recognise China, does not make Taiwan stop existing. But it doesn't matter in any case as your positon is that the people of Hong Kong should just roll over and accept that the People's Republic of China does not adhere to agreements.
And yes, for your information I have been to HK recently and have visited it many times in the past.
Have you ever seen what they are doing? Hopefully you are honest about statement that you came to hk recently, the real hk is we cannot go out our living area during the weekend because of them and we barely cannot find a opening restaurant during the last weekend. They are ruining the city and most of us don’t support them. Also please visit some hk local online forums to read what we think (u can use google translate). These riots doesn’t represent hk.
For Taiwan issue, again, I have already admitted the fact that they are independent, but legally admitted and the fact are different, it’s about politics. Like many government US or UK don’t admit, they think it is an illegal government, so they can raise the war. And again, I don’t want to comment for Taiwan issue, PRC is right or wrong, I can only say it’s their policy. Like many global political issue, there is no absolute right or wrong.
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On October 10 2019 18:50 CraigWT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 18:33 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 18:18 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:50 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work. Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment. Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots) Yeah of course, when the extradition bill was proposed, Taiwan government clearly claimed that even if the bill passes, they would not agree on extraditing the criminal at the cost of sacrificing the freedom in HongKong. So if the murder is the cause, there's no reason to move on and everything can go back to normal. The fact that HongKong government still wants to force it out tells that it's not that simple. Taiwan? Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC. And please try to know the entire storyline and their so called “5 appeal and no one less” and the response from the commissioner, besides the extradition, they ask the police release all arrested riots and punish the people who have the fight with them, and force the commissioner to resign. is it the freedom you support? They can do whatever they want and get no punishment and people against them shall get arrested? If the government agree all of their appeal, then what would you think the hk will be? When you feel unhappy about the government, you just walk into the street, fight against the police, burning shops and banks, and ask the government must listen to you? “Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC.” Well yeah now western government really have bad relationship with PRC, too, so people should support anything that's against PRC. What's the point? Why is so hard to admit that withdrawing (not amending) the extradition bill could have alleviated the situation and maybe even stopped it in the beginning? About the rest of the post, we were talking about "what started this protest and what could have been done to end it early" and you are again talking about "we can't do it now it's too late", which is totally irrelevant. At very beginning, after the first march, government already compromised and do the amendment, but riots think that is not enough. So all hk people shall just listen to riots because they are dare to do the violence? Why you so believe that these riots stand for the majority of our hk people? Why you think our hk people support their appeal? Have you ever been to hk or recently visit hk? Why you think you know much more than our hk people ourselves about our will?
My question:"withdrawing (not amending) the extradition bill could have alleviated the situation and maybe even stopped it in the beginning"
Your answer:"government already compromised and do the amendment, but riots think that is not enough"
Which is totally the opposite to my question. They didn't withdraw the bill and that's why it escalated.
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On October 10 2019 18:50 CraigWT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 18:33 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 18:18 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:50 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work. Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment. Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots) Yeah of course, when the extradition bill was proposed, Taiwan government clearly claimed that even if the bill passes, they would not agree on extraditing the criminal at the cost of sacrificing the freedom in HongKong. So if the murder is the cause, there's no reason to move on and everything can go back to normal. The fact that HongKong government still wants to force it out tells that it's not that simple. Taiwan? Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC. And please try to know the entire storyline and their so called “5 appeal and no one less” and the response from the commissioner, besides the extradition, they ask the police release all arrested riots and punish the people who have the fight with them, and force the commissioner to resign. is it the freedom you support? They can do whatever they want and get no punishment and people against them shall get arrested? If the government agree all of their appeal, then what would you think the hk will be? When you feel unhappy about the government, you just walk into the street, fight against the police, burning shops and banks, and ask the government must listen to you? “Since Taiwan government now have really bad relationship with PRC, they will support anything that against PRC.” Well yeah now western government really have bad relationship with PRC, too, so people should support anything that's against PRC. What's the point? Why is so hard to admit that withdrawing (not amending) the extradition bill could have alleviated the situation and maybe even stopped it in the beginning? About the rest of the post, we were talking about "what started this protest and what could have been done to end it early" and you are again talking about "we can't do it now it's too late", which is totally irrelevant. At very beginning, after the first march, government already compromised and do the amendment, but riots think that is not enough. So all hk people shall just listen to riots because they are dare to do the violence? Why you so believe that these riots stand for the majority of our hk people? Why you think our hk people support their appeal? Have you ever been to hk or recently visit hk? Why you think you know much more than our hk people ourselves about our will?
You can claim that you have been living in HK for whatever many years and how much better you know about the citizens than me, while never showing any evidence, so after all it's all opinions.
Even if you are a reporter from HK, you are still just part of the media, which is telling your point of view. "Why you so believe that these riots stand for the majority of our hk people?"
The thing is simple: let everyone vote on "Do you agree on withdrawing the extradition bill" and see the result. Otherwise it's just personal opinion for both of us.
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Czech Republic12131 Posts
On October 10 2019 16:57 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:
If only all these people put all thsi effort to force their government to do something. But unfortunetally, we live in a time when people care more about Blizzard then their own politicians and what their own government does... How do you know they aren't? You might be surprised to hear this, but passionate gamers are not the only people living on this planet. There are plenty of overlap between gamers, and people who are passionate about politics. There are, however, also a lot of people out there who arent gamers and who's also not into politics. Check out the TL US politics thread and you'll see plenty of people caring about politics there, and that's probably the most consistently busiest thread on all of TL.
Because it's the same as NRA vs anti-gun people?* How many changes have you seen? How many riots about the support of China vs HK have you seen? I didn't see any, I'm not saying they're not happening, all I'm saying is that I don't know about any.
Yet there's e-outrage about Blizzard all over the western world. While the same western people don't care about their country support Saudi Arabia(e.g.). If there would be enough sustain outrage about such issues politicians would have to do something because otherwise they wouldn't be elected the next elections. But nothing's happening.
*Now to the NRA vs anti-gun people. Anti-gun people are always outraged and asking changes 2 or 3 weeks after some massacre. And then nothing. NRA is active the whole year. So visually it seems that there's more pro-gun people and they're more persistent. Again, I don't know how many anti-gun people there are as there's nothing as nonNRA(or I don't know it), but changes didn't happen, did they? Which means that it works.
TL, DR - to get changes you need to be persistent, ask politicians regularily, try to gather support from other people. Maybe it's my cynicism, but I believe majority of the outraged people don't care about their own politicians and their support of the unified China politic.
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If living conditions for "ordinary young" people in Hong Kong are so bad, and china is so close and great and free, why won't they move there ?
Why do the "ordinary poor young" chose to protest ? Why do Hearthstoneplayers throw away 10.000s of Dollars to make a statement ?
ChuChuChu and CraigWT, it does not ad up.
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Northern Ireland27188 Posts
On October 10 2019 19:17 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:57 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:
If only all these people put all thsi effort to force their government to do something. But unfortunetally, we live in a time when people care more about Blizzard then their own politicians and what their own government does... How do you know they aren't? You might be surprised to hear this, but passionate gamers are not the only people living on this planet. There are plenty of overlap between gamers, and people who are passionate about politics. There are, however, also a lot of people out there who arent gamers and who's also not into politics. Check out the TL US politics thread and you'll see plenty of people caring about politics there, and that's probably the most consistently busiest thread on all of TL. Because it's the same as NRA vs anti-gun people?* How many changes have you seen? How many riots about the support of China vs HK have you seen? I didn't see any, I'm not saying they're not happening, all I'm saying is that I don't know about any. Yet there's e-outrage about Blizzard all over the western world. While the same western people don't care about their country support Saudi Arabia(e.g.). If there would be enough sustain outrage about such issues politicians would have to do something because otherwise they wouldn't be elected the next elections. But nothing's happening. *Now to the NRA vs anti-gun people. Anti-gun people are always outraged and asking changes 2 or 3 weeks after some massacre. And then nothing. NRA is active the whole year. So visually it seems that there's more pro-gun people and they're more persistent. Again, I don't know how many anti-gun people there are as there's nothing as nonNRA(or I don't know it), but changes didn't happen, did they? Which means that it works. TL, DR - to get changes you need to be persistent, ask politicians regularily, try to gather support from other people. Maybe it's my cynicism, but I believe majority of the outraged people don't care about their own politicians and their support of the unified China politic.
I’d say it’s something that people latch on to because you can individually actually do something about it.
Point taken about the power of sustained advocacy, most people I know are just completely disillusioned and beaten down about the mechanisms of enacting change, and understandably so.
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Czech Republic12131 Posts
On October 10 2019 19:28 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 19:17 deacon.frost wrote:On October 10 2019 16:57 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:
If only all these people put all thsi effort to force their government to do something. But unfortunetally, we live in a time when people care more about Blizzard then their own politicians and what their own government does... How do you know they aren't? You might be surprised to hear this, but passionate gamers are not the only people living on this planet. There are plenty of overlap between gamers, and people who are passionate about politics. There are, however, also a lot of people out there who arent gamers and who's also not into politics. Check out the TL US politics thread and you'll see plenty of people caring about politics there, and that's probably the most consistently busiest thread on all of TL. Because it's the same as NRA vs anti-gun people?* How many changes have you seen? How many riots about the support of China vs HK have you seen? I didn't see any, I'm not saying they're not happening, all I'm saying is that I don't know about any. Yet there's e-outrage about Blizzard all over the western world. While the same western people don't care about their country support Saudi Arabia(e.g.). If there would be enough sustain outrage about such issues politicians would have to do something because otherwise they wouldn't be elected the next elections. But nothing's happening. *Now to the NRA vs anti-gun people. Anti-gun people are always outraged and asking changes 2 or 3 weeks after some massacre. And then nothing. NRA is active the whole year. So visually it seems that there's more pro-gun people and they're more persistent. Again, I don't know how many anti-gun people there are as there's nothing as nonNRA(or I don't know it), but changes didn't happen, did they? Which means that it works. TL, DR - to get changes you need to be persistent, ask politicians regularily, try to gather support from other people. Maybe it's my cynicism, but I believe majority of the outraged people don't care about their own politicians and their support of the unified China politic. I’d say it’s something that people latch on to because you can individually actually do something about it. Point taken about the power of sustained advocacy, most people I know are just completely disillusioned and beaten down about the mechanisms of enacting change, and understandably so.
I feel for them, it's just that they're angry about a company without any real power. It's like being angry at the support person on the phone. While it helps you, personally, it won't change anything. (unless it's Valve where the support, at least the e-support, goes to everyone in the company, Gaben himself rarely included)
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NRA has a single purpose, and many advocates. So everytime just a hint of gun control pops up, they blitz it.
But neither NRA or taiwan are topics in this thread.
I like to know how I can deal with my favourite games are made by a spineless boot licking company that was totally awesome and likeable before greedy crab people took over.
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