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On October 10 2019 11:09 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 06:29 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 06:14 Penev wrote:On October 10 2019 06:08 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 05:53 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 05:47 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 05:43 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 05:33 chuchuchu wrote:
Even Wikipedia has debates about whether there is a massacre in Tiananmen (1989). There are no debates on Wikipedia about whether the massacre happened. People are allowed to debate on the wiki debate page, and on there anyone and whomever can say whatever the heck they please. That never makes it onto the actual article itself, which requires sources for everything you post. And there are plenty of sources for Tiananmen square. There's fucking photos of it! And they have existed since before Photoshop was a thing. Are you questioning my ability to use the network? Yes. Quite profoundly: https://observers.france24.com/en/20120604-new-photos-emerge-showing-tiananmen-square-just-after-1989-massacre-china-student-protest-commemorationAnd thanks for making me google these for you. They make me sick to my stomach. There are more, btw. Any google search will do. They are not censored over here (yet) The "tank man" is from the day after the massacre, not from the massacre itself. https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1561088272745847&wfr=spider&for=pcI really hope that you can look at these. What is the photo of the slaughter? What is evidence? What is the real slaughter However, it seems that it is hard to say clearly with Westerners and whites. After all, it is a country that relies on the slave trade and the ethnic groups of Africa and the Americas are extinct. I would like to know that Americans are afraid when they are lying on the land where Indians and blacks are buried. So far you have compared the Hong Kong protesters with the KKK, I think you called me stupid, it's hard to know for sure with your English, you are denying the tiananmen square massacre happened and now you start to get racist about "whites". I wonder where you'll go next! Westerners still believe that they are on the side of democracy and freedom. Instead of standing in the US-China trade war and the Sino-US dispute, it stands on the side of the United States. Hong Kong and the NBA are just a continuation of this struggle. You are like a high school student. Disappointed Is the fact of the statement racial discrimination? very funny. Just like you won't praise me for accepting the Cultural Revolution. Is it freedom of speech? When things are reversed, when a Chinese person in turn accuses the West of being racist, it is brainwashed and persecuted. I am only suspecting the tears of the crocodile. Because Western society is the beneficiary of the collapse of Chinese society. If I am racist, I will not mention that I love nasa and love Kennedy. As you are ridiculous about my remarks, I also treat your remarks like this. You call me the AI of high school students. Indeed, because my native language is Chinese, using Google Translate allows me to express a lot of things faster. I at least think that my English is better than your Chinese. Of course you won't care, but still laugh at my English. Emm, this is what I want to say. Because you are born to think that you are right, think that everyone should speak English and think that you are on the side of justice. Yes, I said it is a fact, and you should believe in what I believe. It is not difficult to explain why there are always many missionaries in the West, and even in the most glorious time in history, the East did not send a missionary to the West. You can say all of those horrible things about westerners, and nobody will fire you from your job or take away things you've earned. You can peddle wild and offensive conspiracy theories that are refuted by literally hundreds of people who witnessed the events, moved away, and have been allowed to speak about their firsthand experiences, and suffer essentially no negative consequences at all. That's the difference between mainland China and the West. That's the whole point of why people in HK are upset.
Are you serious? I won’t lose my job in the U.S if I speak out for supporting racism or sexual discrimination? But you will not lose your job in China if you say so. Each country has its own “political right”, has its own “banned words”. Please don’t judge other people using your own standard.
Besides, as a hk citizen, I and many other hk people are upset about the current chaos caused by those riots, we hope their riots activities can be stopped. Also, their goal is the independence of hk and not the freedom, in fact no one is taking their freedom away.
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On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
...
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
....
Let me state it this way:
We have overcome the thinking that a human being is inferior because of his skin color. We have overcome the thinking that it would be okay to enslave people. And at least most people are even agreeing on racial slurs are bad, because they represent the things we already have overcome.
If your government tells you, it's equally offensive to honor contracts, made by a former party chairman compared to use racial slurs becaus you feel hate towards people you probably never talked to .. you are having a shitty government that tells you lies.
Hong Kong was promised "One Country, two Systems". Ever since Chinese government has decided to weaken this agreement, the protests began.
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On October 10 2019 17:07 CraigWT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 11:09 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 06:29 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 06:14 Penev wrote:On October 10 2019 06:08 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 05:53 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 05:47 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 05:43 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 05:33 chuchuchu wrote:
Even Wikipedia has debates about whether there is a massacre in Tiananmen (1989). There are no debates on Wikipedia about whether the massacre happened. People are allowed to debate on the wiki debate page, and on there anyone and whomever can say whatever the heck they please. That never makes it onto the actual article itself, which requires sources for everything you post. And there are plenty of sources for Tiananmen square. There's fucking photos of it! And they have existed since before Photoshop was a thing. Are you questioning my ability to use the network? Yes. Quite profoundly: https://observers.france24.com/en/20120604-new-photos-emerge-showing-tiananmen-square-just-after-1989-massacre-china-student-protest-commemorationAnd thanks for making me google these for you. They make me sick to my stomach. There are more, btw. Any google search will do. They are not censored over here (yet) The "tank man" is from the day after the massacre, not from the massacre itself. https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1561088272745847&wfr=spider&for=pcI really hope that you can look at these. What is the photo of the slaughter? What is evidence? What is the real slaughter However, it seems that it is hard to say clearly with Westerners and whites. After all, it is a country that relies on the slave trade and the ethnic groups of Africa and the Americas are extinct. I would like to know that Americans are afraid when they are lying on the land where Indians and blacks are buried. So far you have compared the Hong Kong protesters with the KKK, I think you called me stupid, it's hard to know for sure with your English, you are denying the tiananmen square massacre happened and now you start to get racist about "whites". I wonder where you'll go next! Westerners still believe that they are on the side of democracy and freedom. Instead of standing in the US-China trade war and the Sino-US dispute, it stands on the side of the United States. Hong Kong and the NBA are just a continuation of this struggle. You are like a high school student. Disappointed Is the fact of the statement racial discrimination? very funny. Just like you won't praise me for accepting the Cultural Revolution. Is it freedom of speech? When things are reversed, when a Chinese person in turn accuses the West of being racist, it is brainwashed and persecuted. I am only suspecting the tears of the crocodile. Because Western society is the beneficiary of the collapse of Chinese society. If I am racist, I will not mention that I love nasa and love Kennedy. As you are ridiculous about my remarks, I also treat your remarks like this. You call me the AI of high school students. Indeed, because my native language is Chinese, using Google Translate allows me to express a lot of things faster. I at least think that my English is better than your Chinese. Of course you won't care, but still laugh at my English. Emm, this is what I want to say. Because you are born to think that you are right, think that everyone should speak English and think that you are on the side of justice. Yes, I said it is a fact, and you should believe in what I believe. It is not difficult to explain why there are always many missionaries in the West, and even in the most glorious time in history, the East did not send a missionary to the West. You can say all of those horrible things about westerners, and nobody will fire you from your job or take away things you've earned. You can peddle wild and offensive conspiracy theories that are refuted by literally hundreds of people who witnessed the events, moved away, and have been allowed to speak about their firsthand experiences, and suffer essentially no negative consequences at all. That's the difference between mainland China and the West. That's the whole point of why people in HK are upset. Are you serious? I won’t lose my job in the U.S if I speak out for supporting racism or sexual discrimination? But you will not lose your job in China if you say so. Each country has its own “political right”, has its own “banned words”. Please don’t judge other people using your own standard. Besides, as a hk citizen, I and many other hk people are upset about the current chaos caused by those riots, we hope their riots activities can be stopped. Also, their goal is the independence of hk and not the freedom, in fact no one is taking their freedom away.
Wow...just wow... And I thought the guy comparing the KKK with the chinese protests was bad...What you said is fucking terrible dude...
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On October 10 2019 16:53 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:40 jin8612cn wrote:On October 09 2019 16:11 pzlama333 wrote:On October 09 2019 15:37 abuse wrote:On October 09 2019 15:26 Haukinger wrote:On October 09 2019 15:19 abuse wrote:
You say mixing up sports and politics is frowned upon, yet, Blizzard is allowed to be as political as they want.
Do you know that in the Overwatch league the Taiwanese team isn't called Taiwan but "Chinese Taipei" and the players are not allowed to even use their own country's flag because Blizzard doesn't want to kiss up to China to enter their market, and China thinks Taiwan is still their territory.
And south tirolean athletes are forced to compete under the italian flag, and there's the organizer's egalitarian ads in soccer matches and so on. Of course, sports are used for political agitation, but that doesn't make adding to it less bad. First off, South Tyrol isn't a country(not recognized at least). Taiwan is. Second, you're just proving my point here. Organizations can do whatever the fuck they want, both in my case and . First, Taiwan is not a country. United Nation does not recognize it. United States does not recognize it. Russia does not recognize it. United Kingdom, France, and all European Union countries do not recognize it. Most countries in the world do not recognize it. Even Taiwan's own "constitution", claim itself as part of China, under the name of "Republic of China". Technically, the mainland and the government in the island are still at full war state, and there is not even a cease fire. Second, Blizzard has its rules and will follow it. Anyone who compete an official competition also must accept it. If someone break the rules, whatever it is cheating or insulting other people, Blizzard has and will use its power. Not only Blizzard, most major sports organizations all have such rules. One example is FIFA, which bans all politics in any soccer event. 3. The riots and terrorists in Hong Kong do not seek freedom of speech. They seek freedom of making crimes and separation by force. They burn subway and banks, loot shops, block airport, and attack police, tourists and random people on street. If anyone want to support such actions, I assume that they are no difference with 9/11 attackers. Totally agreed. I am in hong kong right now. TL community has no idea what is actually going on in hong kong and how ridiculous, radical, and violent those riots have became. I have no idea and I don't care "how bad" protesters are acting in HK right now. All that matters is that China should GTFO of HKs democractic system and honor the deal they signed 1984, give HK their autonomy as promised. That in itself would solve those violent riots without having to resort to violence. That is not to say I support protesters doing violent actions but the problem is not the protests, its China not upholding its honor and respecting the deal they themselves signed.
Hilarious. Do you have any evidence to show China is breaking the deal signed in 1984? Or all your info are all from your biased and partially reported western media? Autonomy is always there, CHINESE government will not intervene any hk issue as long as they are not separating hk from China. This is the only thing Chinese government ask, is it too much?
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On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact.
Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today.
I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point.
And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work.
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On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact.
As a houston rockets fan since 2002, I finishd graduate school in US, work in Hong Kong, and play in GM league on CN ladder.
Damn, I do not know what to feel now...
btw, my cn account: 40239511@qq.com
us account: xxx30@case.edu
wechat: 40239511
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On October 10 2019 17:11 Elmonti wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 17:07 CraigWT wrote:On October 10 2019 11:09 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 06:29 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 06:14 Penev wrote:On October 10 2019 06:08 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 05:53 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 05:47 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 05:43 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 05:33 chuchuchu wrote:
Even Wikipedia has debates about whether there is a massacre in Tiananmen (1989). There are no debates on Wikipedia about whether the massacre happened. People are allowed to debate on the wiki debate page, and on there anyone and whomever can say whatever the heck they please. That never makes it onto the actual article itself, which requires sources for everything you post. And there are plenty of sources for Tiananmen square. There's fucking photos of it! And they have existed since before Photoshop was a thing. Are you questioning my ability to use the network? Yes. Quite profoundly: https://observers.france24.com/en/20120604-new-photos-emerge-showing-tiananmen-square-just-after-1989-massacre-china-student-protest-commemorationAnd thanks for making me google these for you. They make me sick to my stomach. There are more, btw. Any google search will do. They are not censored over here (yet) The "tank man" is from the day after the massacre, not from the massacre itself. https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1561088272745847&wfr=spider&for=pcI really hope that you can look at these. What is the photo of the slaughter? What is evidence? What is the real slaughter However, it seems that it is hard to say clearly with Westerners and whites. After all, it is a country that relies on the slave trade and the ethnic groups of Africa and the Americas are extinct. I would like to know that Americans are afraid when they are lying on the land where Indians and blacks are buried. So far you have compared the Hong Kong protesters with the KKK, I think you called me stupid, it's hard to know for sure with your English, you are denying the tiananmen square massacre happened and now you start to get racist about "whites". I wonder where you'll go next! Westerners still believe that they are on the side of democracy and freedom. Instead of standing in the US-China trade war and the Sino-US dispute, it stands on the side of the United States. Hong Kong and the NBA are just a continuation of this struggle. You are like a high school student. Disappointed Is the fact of the statement racial discrimination? very funny. Just like you won't praise me for accepting the Cultural Revolution. Is it freedom of speech? When things are reversed, when a Chinese person in turn accuses the West of being racist, it is brainwashed and persecuted. I am only suspecting the tears of the crocodile. Because Western society is the beneficiary of the collapse of Chinese society. If I am racist, I will not mention that I love nasa and love Kennedy. As you are ridiculous about my remarks, I also treat your remarks like this. You call me the AI of high school students. Indeed, because my native language is Chinese, using Google Translate allows me to express a lot of things faster. I at least think that my English is better than your Chinese. Of course you won't care, but still laugh at my English. Emm, this is what I want to say. Because you are born to think that you are right, think that everyone should speak English and think that you are on the side of justice. Yes, I said it is a fact, and you should believe in what I believe. It is not difficult to explain why there are always many missionaries in the West, and even in the most glorious time in history, the East did not send a missionary to the West. You can say all of those horrible things about westerners, and nobody will fire you from your job or take away things you've earned. You can peddle wild and offensive conspiracy theories that are refuted by literally hundreds of people who witnessed the events, moved away, and have been allowed to speak about their firsthand experiences, and suffer essentially no negative consequences at all. That's the difference between mainland China and the West. That's the whole point of why people in HK are upset. Are you serious? I won’t lose my job in the U.S if I speak out for supporting racism or sexual discrimination? But you will not lose your job in China if you say so. Each country has its own “political right”, has its own “banned words”. Please don’t judge other people using your own standard. Besides, as a hk citizen, I and many other hk people are upset about the current chaos caused by those riots, we hope their riots activities can be stopped. Also, their goal is the independence of hk and not the freedom, in fact no one is taking their freedom away. Wow...just wow... And I thought the guy comparing the KKK with the chinese protests was bad...What you said is fucking terrible dude...
Do you really know what those riots are doing? They are basically terrorists now, if you think racism is a bad comparison, terrorism will be a good and appropriate one. And you totally don’t understand What I want to say. In your country, everyone cares about racism, in China (in fact not just China, in the entire East Asia) although we don’t support racism, but we don’t care that much, and people normally won’t get serious punished if they say something racist. But in East Asia, we are sensitive about the territory completeness, so we are sensitive about the independence, especially when they want to get the independence by simply destroying the city.
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On October 10 2019 17:23 jin8612cn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. As a houston rockets fan since 2002, I finishd graduate school in US, work in Hong Kong, and play in GM league on CN ladder. Damn, I do not know what to feel now... btw, my cn account: 40239511@qq.com us account: xxx30@case.edu wechat: 40239511
I don’t know what you mean? Agree or disagree about my message?
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On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work.
Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment.
Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots)
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Hong Kong has always agreed on "One Country, Two Systems". It's beijing that contradicts the "two systems" part, and *surprised pikachu*
Hong Kong citizens are having a hard time to trust beijing now.
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Just read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration
China had promised to not interfere with hong Kong for 50 years, but has been steadily interfering, to the point that Hong Kong commissioners must be approved by China. When China already disappears booksellers in Hong Kong, the extradition bill nowmakes it legal for them to disappear anybody in Hong Kong as they like.
Taiwan is not China. Taiwan is its own separate country, whose people do not want to join up with the People's Republic of Chinaa. What does an extradition bill between Hong Kong and Taiwan have to do with Hong Kong and China?
Taiwan has it's own seperate government and legal system. Taiwan's extradition bill is for Taiwan to negotiate, and it has to negotiate with China, as Hong Kong's foreign policy is entirely handed over to China. So, maybe stop drinking China state media information.
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On October 10 2019 17:09 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
...
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
.... Let me state it this way: We have overcome the thinking that a human being is inferior because of his skin color. We have overcome the thinking that it would be okay to enslave people. And at least most people are even agreeing on racial slurs are bad, because they represent the things we already have overcome. If your government tells you, it's equally offensive to honor contracts, made by a former party chairman compared to use racial slurs becaus you feel hate towards people you probably never talked to .. you are having a shitty government that tells you lies. Hong Kong was promised "One Country, two Systems". Ever since Chinese government has decided to weaken this agreement, the protests began.
Who are doing this? Does Chinese people are hating the world? Or the western freedom fighters are hating Chinese, thought they never been to China, have no Chinese friend? And again, do you have any evidence showing that the country is destroying one country two system? And why you people have such confidence that you think you know way more about hk than a hk citizen? As a hk citizen, I don’t support their behaviour, and you know barely nothing about the current situation and just judge I am wrong, what a freedom
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Who said anything about hating China? Whataboutism. Stop making things up. Just like the other chinese bot, you write the same things deflecting arguments. China destroyed one country two system even before they decided to abduct booksellers in Hong Kong. Your government is so afraid of people who sell books, they abduct them from Hong Kong.
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On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:
...
Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots)
.....
The new law would allow to bring any prisoner to mainland china. And because the chinese have no politically independent justice system, anyone can become a prisoner even without commiting a crime. That is a direct threat to freedom of HK citizens.
That's what they fear. That's why they give up their normal lifes and join protests.
Or do you honestly believe that people risk their jobs, their freedom, their health an even their life, because they think that criminals should go free among them ?
If you step back a little - what's the more plausible story here ?
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I hope your goverment pays you enough to feed this bullshit to gullible people.
The day your glorious leader appointed the politicians the people in HK could elect, 1 country/2 Systems was 100% over.
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On October 10 2019 17:35 CraigWT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 17:17 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 16:51 CraigWT wrote:
As a CHINESE Hong Kong citizen and who now lives in Hong Kong, I can tell you guys that the riots are seeking for the only purpose, which is the independence of Hong Kong, and in fact just some of hk citizens are holding this point of view (maybe 1/3, most of them are young people). For achieving their wish, they are destroying hk metro system, burn and destroy CHINESE banks, CHINESE national flags, beating mainland Chinese people or hk people who support the police. The commercial activity, tourism industry is totally broken, many of middle class and rich people are selling their property and preparing for immigration. It is 100% riot instead of peaceful protest. So I assume anyone who support this kind of activity shall support terrorism.
And also, every country have its own “political right”, like in the U.S, racist is the redline, in China territory is the redline, especially for those clear area (Taiwan is another issue, but hk is undoubtedly a part of China) . Yelling “free hk” to Chinese is the same with yelling “niggers are xxx” to American people (just an example no mean for offence), so when a guy comes out and say free hk or similar thing, relevant company must make a decision: respect Chinese “political right” or not.
And last but not least, the hk issue is not like what most of western people know, “a peaceful protest for seeking freedom” (at least not for now, maybe for the very beginning), and people shall make public comment or opinion after collecting some information and trying to know the fact. Well, the HK government had about half a year to withdraw this extradition bill. But they decided to just sit there and see it escalate, until it's turned into something else, so they can take next step and force the issue. I feel that they were expecting what's happening today. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I'd say that if the HK government really wants this to end in peace, first they should end the extradition bill as a starting point. And of course you'll say "it's useless now, the situation has completely changed blablabla..." but if you just assume that things won't work, you'll never do anything and of course nothing would work. Don’t you know the government have already done lots of amendments on the law to compromise? And do you know the initial reason for drafting the extradition bill? If you don’t I can tell you, it is because 2 years ago, a hk guy murdered another hk lady in Taiwan and fly back to hk, because no extradition bill between these two places, the guy is still get no punishment, and also many Chinese criminals are now living in hk and get no punishment. Now it is the riots are forcing the government to 100% listen to them and they don’t accept any compromise. (please know the fact not the majority of hk people are supporting the riots)
Yeah of course, when the extradition bill was proposed, Taiwan government clearly claimed that even if the bill passes, they would not agree on extraditing the criminal at the cost of sacrificing the freedom in HongKong. So if the murder is the cause, there's no reason to move on and everything can go back to normal.
The fact that HongKong government still wants to force it out tells that it's not that simple.
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On October 10 2019 17:42 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Just read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_DeclarationChina had promised to not interfere with hong Kong for 50 years, but has been steadily interfering, to the point that Hong Kong commissioners must be approved by China. When China already disappears booksellers in Hong Kong, the extradition bill nowmakes it legal for them to disappear anybody in Hong Kong as they like. Taiwan is not China. Taiwan is its own separate country, whose people do not want to join up with the People's Republic of Chinaa. What does an extradition bill between Hong Kong and Taiwan have to do with Hong Kong and China? Taiwan has it's own seperate government and legal system. Taiwan's extradition bill is for Taiwan to negotiate, and it has to negotiate with China, as Hong Kong's foreign policy is entirely handed over to China. So, maybe stop drinking China state media information.
Just talking about the joint declaration, also using the your quote from wiki, China promise not to practise socialism to hk and hk stay capitalism for 50 years, and both China and UK agreed on the “the basic law”, and the first article in the basic law is “HKSAR is a part of China”. Chinese government will permit any commissioner candidate if such candidates support the Basic Law.
Also hk is a special region of China, it has no foreign policy right and military right, does Scotland has its own military or foreign policy? I don’t believe your UK will give them such right
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Scotland is not a Special Administrative Region of UK. Scotland is fully part of UK. Scotland chose to join with England 300 years ago, as 2 acts of Parliament passed by the Parliament of England and the Parliament of Scotland.Scotland has even greater rights than England, having representation in national Parliament in the House of Commons and in its own Scottish Parliament and many seperate legislation. The Scottish Parliament is also free to seek separation from the UK.
Scottish MP do not disappear over the border to unknown places in England, unless you count disappearing in the pub in the House of Commons, though many prefer the new expensively funded Scottish Parliament to the run down Palace of Westminster. Guess what China and HK does not have. A parliament.
Just recently a court of Scotland essentially countered the Prime Minister and is now ruling over whether to send a letter requesting a Brexit extension in stead of the PM. Imagine a Hong Kong court being able to overule Xi Jinping. But rule of law doesn't exist in China.
It doesn't have foreign and military right, it is has full foreign and military rights as part of UK with representation in part of government. It is a curious fact that Scottish MP's are overpresented in government. Gordon Brown who was Prime Minister a few years ago was for instance was Scottish. Imagine elections in Hong Kong leading to a Hong Kong president of China!
In fact many army bases are in Scotland, actively recruiting there for historical reasons and the nuclear submarine bases are in Scotland, so Scotland have an over represented military sector. Scotland celebrates its military heritage as part of UK. They keep their bagpipes and their ceremonial kit, celebrating their distinctive differences with the rest of the UK. Would China even entertain Hong Kong regiments with their own insignia and flags and cultural musical instruments? To let them parade proudly in distinctively different colours and hats and bagpipes?
Would Hong Kong celebrate its nonexistent military heritage with China, when China is producing videos of military vehicles moving to the borders of Hong Kong? Does Hong Kong have an army? Are people in Hong Kong even trusted to be recruited into the military, to crew their nuclear submarines?
You should try learning a bit more about the UK instead of making dumb comparisons.
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The extradition bill is just a catalyst, the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. People in HK generally prefer not to get involved in politics but there has been a lot of built up frustration at the HK government over the years, not only at their incompetence but also the way the officials suck up to Beijing by introducing policies that slowly take away their freedom. Many just want to get on with their lives and dont' really care about independence, as long as China doesn't encroach on their current rights. They want a government where there's some sense of accountability, and tired of seeing it run by idiots.
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EPT
