EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 868
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
| ||
|
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
On October 24 2018 22:23 iamthedave wrote: 3. I'm not ANTIFA's biggest fan, but they seem to cause the right to flip out and say and do stupid things and blow them entirely out of proportion so I guess by your logic they're doing good? I see them as a sign of the times. Your political discourse has become so coarse and brutal that you now have street gangs fighting for their side. There's little point in complaining about the other guys when you've got the Proud Boys on your own, for example. It's tit for tat, self-pertuating and dangerous, and will likely continue to slowly ratchet up until people are getting killed in numbers or until someone finds a way to bridge the gap and get both sides talking and cooperating again. Not holding my breath on that one Given that Antifa's entire philosophy is to oppose fascism wherever it appears, do you think we should be aiming to stop the violence and have both sides talk and cooperate? Is that even remotely feasible, or desirable? I would prefer a society where fascism is not tolerated to one where we all sit down and try and compromise with fascists. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On October 24 2018 22:32 Logo wrote: There's not many issues I'm willing to take a strong stand at. But Rand Paul getting into a fight with his neighbor for being a complete jerk is in fact hilarious and should be ruthlessly mocked. Yeah, by all reliable accounts, Paul repeatedly did douchey stuff with lawn refuse on his neighbor's property and the neighbor lost his temper after he did it for the umpteenth time. Naturally, folks ran the story up a partisan wall, but Paul rightfully deserves some ridicule for being a shitty neighbor whose wife tried to turn the thing into a political dispute. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
On October 24 2018 22:35 JimmiC wrote: It gets weird when the 'edge' gets their Presidential candidate elected. Is the alt right still the edge at that point?I think both the right and the left have a problem with screaming at the edges (antifa and Alt right) but acting as if all dems are antfia and all rebs are the alt right. This is causing the people that used to get along, or at least have decent discourse move further apart and fight instead of debate. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France8148 Posts
www.nytimes.com GoTunk: So Alex Jones is funny? Sending his far right lunatic supporters to harass Sandy Hook dead kids parents after defaming them in the most horrible way is indeed hilarious. But let’s not forget to minimize to the grotesque everything evil that our side does and go full stupid on the hyperbole when the other guys are at fault. Like claiming that an official being booed in a restaurant is the antifa mob lynching people. That will remind us the glorious days of the thread, before GH made his alternate blog to keep the flame war alive. | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France8148 Posts
On October 24 2018 23:05 JimmiC wrote: Good question, I'm not sure, I do think it has moved the party. But I'm not even sure it is directly right. To me mass government spending is not conservative and so on. To me things got weird when the Tea Party threatened leave the Republicans, since then the party has acquiesced to so many things that it is different than I remember. And that is not even getting into the way the media has changed to overtly partisan and that is just the traditional media. I don’t think american conservative leaders have ever been serious about the overspending and deficit question. The whole small government thing is time and time again proven to be a smokescreen for upward redistribution with tax cuts targetting the wealthiest people and budget cuts in social program. It’s never been about cutting, say, the military. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
Simberto
Germany11929 Posts
On October 24 2018 22:35 Jockmcplop wrote: Given that Antifa's entire philosophy is to oppose fascism wherever it appears, do you think we should be aiming to stop the violence and have both sides talk and cooperate? Is that even remotely feasible, or desirable? I would prefer a society where fascism is not tolerated to one where we all sit down and try and compromise with fascists. The problem here is the definition of fascism. To a lot of antifa people, capitalism is basically the same as fascism. Words don't always mean the same to all people. At least in Germany, Antifa are usually pretty hard-left, somewhere in between anarchism and communism, depending on the people in question. As such, i am not their biggest fan. I also dislike the idea of using violence as a political argument in general. However, i also don't understand how a small hard-left fringe group is so incredibly important to the US right. You don't want to all be described as nazis, so don't think that everyone to the left of you is antifa, or in favor of antifa. There is a whole spectrum between the US right and antifa that contains pretty much most europeans conservatives, social democrats, liberals and whatever else. There are more than two political positions. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
On October 24 2018 23:25 Simberto wrote: The problem here is the definition of fascism. To a lot of antifa people, capitalism is basically the same as fascism. Words don't always mean the same to all people. At least in Germany, Antifa are usually pretty hard-left, somewhere in between anarchism and communism, depending on the people in question. As such, i am not their biggest fan. I also dislike the idea of using violence as a political argument in general. However, i also don't understand how a small hard-left fringe group is so incredibly important to the US right. You don't want to all be described as nazis, so don't think that everyone to the left of you is antifa, or in favor of antifa. There is a whole spectrum between the US right and antifa that contains pretty much most europeans conservatives, social democrats, liberals and whatever else. There are more than two political positions. This is indeed the biggest problem. There are huge issues in some local areas where antifa has had massive overreach and basically decided that they will violently oppose everything in society (because they see it all as fascist) but this is quite rare. The argument about what is or isn't fascism happens more within antifa groups than it does anywhere else. This is also why its quite hard to judge antifa as an ideal, because its different in different areas and takes different forms. Anyway, usually antifa are about exposing fascism and the people engaging in it, taking photos of people on marches and sending them to employers, stuff like that which doesn't get in the news. | ||
|
iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 24 2018 23:25 JimmiC wrote: Its odd to me that in the US guns and military spending are so tied to Christianity. To me Jesus was completely against this, I mean according the bible he knew that they were coming to crucify him and instead of fighting back he just accepted that fate INSTEAD of violence. Not that it is particularly new, the whole crusades and everything. But it still appears to me like they should be on opposing sides of the argument not working in lockstep. Jesus would go absolutely insane with fury if he saw how horrifically the the teachings attributed to him (assuming He exists and it's all true of course) have been perverted if he came into contact with Christianity as it exists in the US. Can you imagine his response when he found out about TV preachers? Or the horrific shit that one dead white arsehole said about New Orleans and basically everything else ever while asking for donations? Obviously not all christians etc etc. But large swaths of America would be in for a sharp surprise if the second coming actually came. Not least because Jesus would be likely to bring the hammer down on all the people who allowed themselves to be so easily taken in as well. On October 24 2018 23:05 JimmiC wrote: Good question, I'm not sure, I do think it has moved the party. But I'm not even sure it is directly right. To me mass government spending is not conservative and so on. To me things got weird when the Tea Party threatened leave the Republicans, since then the party has acquiesced to so many things that it is different than I remember. And that is not even getting into the way the media has changed to overtly partisan and that is just the traditional media. Well, Trump has been full-throatedly endorsed by both Danglars and XDaunt in the other thread,and Daunt at least considers himself to be a straight line Conservative, and in no way affiliated with the alt-right. Never been actually sure where Danglars positions himself. Either way, I think Trump has definitely shifted the party a little further right, going by how he's talked about by the Conservatives who post around here. We won't know for sure until he's gone, though. Might be once he is everyone stops talking about him and goes back to the old ways. It's too early to judge. | ||
|
ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
| ||
KwarK
United States44201 Posts
On October 25 2018 00:38 ShoCkeyy wrote: There seems to be a lot of bombs being sent to the "left" homes... Yeah but it’s nothing compared to the antifa bombing campaign that happened in Europe a while back so who’s the real villain here. #bothsides /s | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland12486 Posts
| ||
|
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9956 Posts
| ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
matter of time until he (or she) is arrested, doubt the Secret Service will take it lightly. | ||
| ||
