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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4356 Posts
The positive is that in the case of the US and Europe it can help reinforce and get people to recognise what made the country good in the first place and why so many third worlders from hellholes want to go there.Lose that and you can lose the values and the greatness. The bad is leaders using nationism as a rallying call for war. | ||
KwarK
United States43251 Posts
On October 24 2018 08:03 Cyro wrote: Nothing wrong with being proud of your country or what it stands for There’s also nothing wrong with being proud of your work, but if you’re too proud to accept criticism or look for ways to improve it your work will never be very good. | ||
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pmh
1366 Posts
On October 24 2018 08:03 Cyro wrote: Nothing wrong with being proud of your country or what it stands for Blasphemy lol. Time and again we read how the nation state is the root of all evil. It mostly applies to Europe,beeing proud of your country is seen as a bad thing by some groups,a potential threat to globalization and a potential inspiration for nationalism. But yes I agree,nothing inherently wrong with being proud of your school,town,country or continent. Go eu! | ||
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On October 24 2018 08:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: It has both positive and negative aspects like most things. The positive is that in the case of the US and Europe it can help reinforce and get people to recognise what made the country good in the first place and why so many third worlders from hellholes want to go there.Lose that and you can lose the values and the greatness. The bad is leaders using nationism as a rallying call for war. For most countries, it’s impossible to say what makes a country “great”. Let’s take Australia for example. There’s nothing really particularly inherently great about Australia, in fact our two major holidays basically celebrate the colonisation of Australia and fleeing from a conflict against Turkey lol. If we look at food culture alone, everything that’s made Australia better in that department and made it potentially influencal on the world stage via coffee and cafe culture have been built off the backs the numerous groups of post World War immigrants (who were hated at the time) from the Mediterranean, refugees from the Vietnam War (who were hated at the time), migrants from East Asia (who were hated at the time) and recent refugee and immigration from the Middle East (who are currently the target of our dislike because they’re killing “Australian culture”). Every time these migrants were thought of as diluting Australia and it’s values so I find the idea of patriotism as a means of protecting a country’s“greatness” to be particularly nebulous. No one in this day and age would ignore the contributions of Vietnamese, Italian and Greek migrants/refugees on Australian society yet if we were to protect our “values”, we’d have sent these people straight back home. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 24 2018 02:50 GoTuNk! wrote: We are just arguing semantics then. I'm quite sure DJT feels strongly about patriotism under your definition; if I can mix them up he certainly can. I would suggest you to listen the phrase in context, it's pretty clear he is referring to what you call patriotism. DJT feels very strongly that DJT is best and everybody else is secondary. He doesn't give a fuck about lesser Americans unless they kiss his arse constantly and tell him he's best. A true patriot wouldn't so proudly indicate that he doesn't pay taxes, nor arrange it so he's constantly getting taxpayer money into his golf courses by forcing the Secret Service to set up shop there constantly. He's the poster child of the selfish businessman. No lie is too great or too small, the truth is to be avoided at all costs, sell your product especially if its defective, and at all costs make money. His entire campaign was based on 'I'M THE BEST, ONLY I CAN FIX EVERY PROBLEM IN THE WORLD'. You can like him despite his flaws, but don't project your feelings of patriotism onto Donald. He cares about his own brand infinitely more than he cares about America, and he'd sacrifice America for the Trump brand without a second thought. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 24 2018 20:13 iamthedave wrote: DJT feels very strongly that DJT is best and everybody else is secondary. He doesn't give a fuck about lesser Americans unless they kiss his arse constantly and tell him he's best. A true patriot wouldn't so proudly indicate that he doesn't pay taxes, nor arrange it so he's constantly getting taxpayer money into his golf courses by forcing the Secret Service to set up shop there constantly. He's the poster child of the selfish businessman. No lie is too great or too small, the truth is to be avoided at all costs, sell your product especially if its defective, and at all costs make money. His entire campaign was based on 'I'M THE BEST, ONLY I CAN FIX EVERY PROBLEM IN THE WORLD'. You can like him despite his flaws, but don't project your feelings of patriotism onto Donald. He cares about his own brand infinitely more than he cares about America, and he'd sacrifice America for the Trump brand without a second thought. I'm talking as a policy leader. He is for the US government to grow the economy, enforce current border laws and "improve" current trade deals. Not rounding up people from other ethnicities and military expanding the souther border. I don't like guessing peoples feelings, and I don't think the POTUS is either a moral compass or a "thought" leader. Many conservatives see him as the response to the lefts vitriol and overall agressiveness in political discourse. And the guy that makes his opponent get mad and do stupid stuff. MAYBE there is some truth to this, specially the mad and dumb, don't you think? | ||
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farvacola
United States18839 Posts
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 24 2018 20:55 farvacola wrote: By that same token, don't you think conservatives and Trump fans are doing their best to lump all critics of Trump into the same group that they can call "mad and dumb" and accordingly dismiss? You, in fact, have been doing this repeatedly in this very thread. There are plenty of non-hysterical policy arguments that can be used to criticize Trump, what he stands for, and those who defend him, don't you think? mm I'm talking about the dems political tactics mostly. The POTUS calls the dems platform "mobs, not jobs" and we get a bunch of angry dems lynching republicans at restaurants and Antifa, with people like Hillary and other in leadership positions not only endorsing such behaviour but OPENLY calling for it. Or some people in the press mocking Rand Paul almost got killed (politically motivated or not), simply because he is a republican., etc. It's like they are playing EXACTLY into his hand into midterms, and polls show it lately. Wait and see I guess. On the other hand I know someone put a bomb on George Soros´s home, but I've not seen any republican leader endorsing this. Even in this same forum someone told me the US government under DJT was comitting murder, torture AND genocide because he was rolling back Obama care lol. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On October 24 2018 20:55 farvacola wrote: By that same token, don't you think conservatives and Trump fans are doing their best to lump all critics of Trump into the same group that they can call "mad and dumb" and accordingly dismiss? You, in fact, have been doing this repeatedly in this very thread. There are plenty of non-hysterical policy arguments that can be used to criticize Trump, what he stands for, and those who defend him, don't you think? I would argue that Trump complete incompetence and totally inadequate temper are the most benign problems of his presidency. What’s really horrifying are his policies and the ideology that surrounds them. In a weird way, we will probably probably remember his batman villain personality as some kind of shield on which people focused while he destroyed consciensously America’s place and image in the world, damaged its institutions, empowered white supremacists and right wing ultranationalists and sabotaged the environmental efforts made by his predecesors, probably his biggest crime historically speaking. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On October 24 2018 21:04 GoTuNk! wrote: mm I'm talking about the dems political tactics mostly. The POTUS calls the dems platform "mobs, not jobs" and we get a bunch of angry dems lynching republicans at restaurants and Antifa, with people like Hillary and other in leadership positions not only endorsing such behaviour but OPENLY calling for it. Or some people in the press mocking Rand Paul almost got killed (politically motivated or not), simply because he is a republican., etc. It's like they are playing EXACTLY into his hand into midterms, and polls show it lately. Wait and see I guess. On the other hand I know someone put a bomb on George Soros´s home, but I've not seen any republican leader endorsing this. Even in this same forum someone told me the US government under DJT was comitting murder, torture AND genocide because he was rolling back Obama care lol. Whenever I read GoTunk i feel i went into some Rick and Morty portal to a dimension C23, where antifas are assassinating people right and left and the democrats are cheering. You know, rather than reality B38 where the POTUS called « very fine people » nazis and KKK heirs marching with torches and running over protesters with a car, and praises fucking Alex Jones. That was a weird one, admitedly. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 24 2018 21:13 Biff The Understudy wrote: Whenever I read GoTunk i feel i went into some Rick and Morty portal to a dimension C23, where antifas are assassinating people right and left and the democrats are cheering. You know, rather than reality B38 where the POTUS called « very fine people » nazis and KKK heirs marching with torches and running over protesters with a car, and praises fucking Alex Jones. That was a weird one, admitedly. Ok. I don't believe in discriminating by the color of you skin. I don't like KKK or Nazis, they are 200 people in the US living on their parents basement and Alex Jones is a nut job (albeit a funny one). I can confirm 90% of republicans, at least, feel the same way. How do you feel about Antifa harrasing people on the streets or mobs lynching people at restaurants? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21955 Posts
On October 24 2018 21:04 GoTuNk! wrote: Do I really need to once again bring up that Trump called for the assassination of his political opponent in case he lost the election?mm I'm talking about the dems political tactics mostly. The POTUS calls the dems platform "mobs, not jobs" and we get a bunch of angry dems lynching republicans at restaurants and Antifa, with people like Hillary and other in leadership positions not only endorsing such behaviour but OPENLY calling for it. Or some people in the press mocking Rand Paul almost got killed (politically motivated or not), simply because he is a republican., etc. It's like they are playing EXACTLY into his hand into midterms, and polls show it lately. Wait and see I guess. On the other hand I know someone put a bomb on George Soros´s home, but I've not seen any republican leader endorsing this. Even in this same forum someone told me the US government under DJT was comitting murder, torture AND genocide because he was rolling back Obama care lol. This restaurant where Dems were lynching Republicans, is it the same place as where Hillary keeps her child sex ring in the basement? You know, the one where a nutjob actually came in with a gun to 'save the children'? And Hillary is leading Antifa? Really? Some people really are lost... | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9718 Posts
On October 24 2018 21:20 GoTuNk! wrote: Ok. I don't believe in discriminating by the color of you skin. I don't like KKK or Nazis, they are 200 people in the US living on their parents basement and Alex Jones is a nut job (albeit a funny one). I can confirm 90% of republicans, at least, feel the same way. How do you feel about Antifa harrasing people on the streets or mobs lynching people at restaurants? I actually feel pretty good about Antifa harassing people on the street, although as far as I know no-one has been lynched. Antifa's goals and methods are clear, they will generally leave you alone as long as you aren't participating in fascism (obviously there's some idiots because its not an organization but more of a political philosophy). I'm all on board with that. The problem is that people feel like its not justified because they are participating in fascism while calling it something else. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On October 24 2018 21:20 GoTuNk! wrote: Ok. I don't believe in discriminating by the color of you skin. I don't like KKK or Nazis, they are 200 people in the US living on their parents basement and Alex Jones is a nut job (albeit a funny one). I can confirm 90% of republicans, at least, feel the same way. How do you feel about Antifa harrasing people on the streets or mobs lynching people at restaurants? Yeah, gonna need a source on that whole lynching thing and confirmation that the people expressing their 1st amendments rights are, in fact, part of antifa. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9718 Posts
On October 24 2018 22:13 TheTenthDoc wrote: Pretty sure this is another instance of appropriating a word for the use of the right, changing its meaning in the process. Now instead of murder lynching means "saying mean things to me." The right definitely doesn't have a monopoly on this type of language use. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 24 2018 21:20 GoTuNk! wrote: Ok. I don't believe in discriminating by the color of you skin. I don't like KKK or Nazis, they are 200 people in the US living on their parents basement and Alex Jones is a nut job (albeit a funny one). I can confirm 90% of republicans, at least, feel the same way. How do you feel about Antifa harrasing people on the streets or mobs lynching people at restaurants? 1. What do you mean by the word 'lynch'? Because it doesn't mean what you clearly think it does. Or if you are using it correctly, we're gonna need a citation or two. 2. Are you referring to Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked politely to leave a restaurant because the staff didn't feel comfortable with her being there? 3. I'm not ANTIFA's biggest fan, but they seem to cause the right to flip out and say and do stupid things and blow them entirely out of proportion so I guess by your logic they're doing good? I see them as a sign of the times. Your political discourse has become so coarse and brutal that you now have street gangs fighting for their side. There's little point in complaining about the other guys when you've got the Proud Boys on your own, for example. It's tit for tat, self-pertuating and dangerous, and will likely continue to slowly ratchet up until people are getting killed in numbers or until someone finds a way to bridge the gap and get both sides talking and cooperating again. Not holding my breath on that one | ||
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