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On September 29 2018 02:55 GoTuNk! wrote:
democrats are trying to save face and flake is aiding them. But he voted yes?
I don't understand what is going on.
I believe Flake is saying he wont vote yes on the floor vote (the one with 100 people) unless an investigation happens between now and then. However, that is up to McConnell and Co., not this committee. They just voted to send it to the main Senate who must decide if they will wait.
It seems clear Collins had this as a requirement for her vote as well. This is a compromise which takes the responsiblity/blame out of the committees hands.
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On September 29 2018 02:58 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2018 02:55 GoTuNk! wrote:
democrats are trying to save face and flake is aiding them. But he voted yes?
I don't understand what is going on. I believe Flake is saying he wont vote yes on the floor vote (the one with 100 people) unless an investigation happens between now and then. However, that is up to McConnell and Co., not this committee. They just voted to send it to the main Senate who must decide if they will wait. It seems clear Collins had this as a requirement for her vote as well. This is a compromise which takes the responsiblity/blame out of the committees hands.
I see. God I hate Flake, just end this circus.
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Gotta love 2 old ppl just showing that they have no idea what's going on around them. Feinstein and Grassley just going "what happened?"
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All right, it seems that try to put this in the hands of party leadership to push for an FBI investigation, but making it clear that several Republicans won’t vote yes unless the FBI investigates these charges. The Democrats are willing to go along with this, because I think it gives their on the fence Democrats some cover if McConnell try to slam the vote to the floor without an investigation.
On September 29 2018 03:01 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2018 02:58 On_Slaught wrote:On September 29 2018 02:55 GoTuNk! wrote:
democrats are trying to save face and flake is aiding them. But he voted yes?
I don't understand what is going on. I believe Flake is saying he wont vote yes on the floor vote (the one with 100 people) unless an investigation happens between now and then. However, that is up to McConnell and Co., not this committee. They just voted to send it to the main Senate who must decide if they will wait. It seems clear Collins had this as a requirement for her vote as well. This is a compromise which takes the responsiblity/blame out of the committees hands. I see. God I hate Flake, just end this circus.
If he didn’t do this, the vote to confirm would likely fail because Collins and who knows who else wouldn’t vote to confirm.
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Did the vote actually happen?
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This is really simple for party leadership. Flake and Collins are pretty blatantly saying here that they will vote no if no investigation takes place, and yes if one takes place and nothing definitive is found. The ball is in McConnells court. I think Flake has forced his hand... an investigation of some sort must take place now.
This is a huge turn of events.
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The investigation will in all likelihood be inconclusive. Once that happens, people shouldn't switch to new argument against Kavanaugh. The investigation results should be the end of it.
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This was a huge win for the dems and also a win for normalcy in the senate.
Even in this crazy bullshit time at least some people can work together on a compromise
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On September 29 2018 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:
The investigation will in all likelihood be inconclusive. Once that happens, people shouldn't switch to new argument against Kavanaugh. The investigation results should be the end of it.
I agree as it applies to Ford. If nothing is found then he shouldn't not be confirmed on the basis of that claim. I want to see what statements of Ford and Kavanaugh can be corroborated.
However I'll be interested to see how the other accusations mature over the next week. This gives more time to them as well.
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Once the can of worms is opened, there's no telling what will happen, particularly given the odds that Trump picks another fight with investigators in the meantime.
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On September 29 2018 03:03 CorsairHero wrote:
Did the vote actually happen?
Yes. The voted to recommend BK to the full senate, but Flake made it clear the vote would fail without an FBI investigation into the charges. But Flake could also Flake and vote yes because he has the spine of Flake.
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On September 29 2018 03:15 plasmidghost wrote:
Didn't the Anita Hill investigation only take three days? If so, what can we expect for the length of the investigation this time?
The biggest differences here are the length of time since the event in question and the large number of folks who have come out of the woodwork with some story to tell. I'd expect the investigation to accordingly take a bit longer, at least.
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On September 29 2018 03:12 Plansix wrote:Yes. The voted to recommend BK to the full senate, but Flake made it clear the vote would fail without an FBI investigation into the charges. But Flake could also Flake and vote yes because he has the spine of Flake.
I think that would be hard even for Flake given he just said to the country live. Still, if he is saying this publically, then Murkowski and Collins are saying it privately. McConell and Trump will have to respect the request or pick someone else.
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On September 29 2018 03:15 plasmidghost wrote:
Didn't the Anita Hill investigation only take three days? If so, what can we expect for the length of the investigation this time?
It's a limit of one week, and limited in scope to the claims which have been made so far.
It should be fairly quick.
It's about the best possible outcome for Democrats, and the moderate Republicans.
The moderates appear reasonable, and if nothing is found, they can still vote for Kavanaugh. If something is found, good thing they pushed for the investigation before a final vote. They win either way.
Given how hard they pushed against it, this is probably the worst outcome that could've happened for Grassley/Kavanaugh. They actively prevented Ramirez (Second accuser) from testifying before the Senate, but now that an investigation seems to be the next step, she'll get her chance with the FBI investigators.
It'll be a fun week, popcorn's ready.
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He could have requested the FBI investigation be done before a vote in committee. That would have been the principled thing to do. Instead, he deferred it to the full senate so that it would be somebody else's responsibility.
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Well, good job to the Dems, they got what they were after. And good job to the Republicans if they actually do the investigation.
I really wish something... oh fuck it I don't have the energy anymore. There's no such thing as a topic where anyone is going to be non-partisan now, you've gone too far down that road. But I hope the Republicans do the decent thing and at least investigate these claims. Three is the magic number, at that point there's enough smoke that you ought to at least look and see if a fire's behind it.
Though given he's literally lied under oath in an attempt to defend himself, I'd have thought that alone ought to disqualify him, if ranting about Democrat conspiracy isn't enough. I mean, I have no faith at all that the man who spoke the way he did yesterday will be non-partial in his rulings as a Supreme Court justice.
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On September 29 2018 03:19 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2018 03:12 Plansix wrote:On September 29 2018 03:03 CorsairHero wrote:
Did the vote actually happen? Yes. The voted to recommend BK to the full senate, but Flake made it clear the vote would fail without an FBI investigation into the charges. But Flake could also Flake and vote yes because he has the spine of Flake. It is an unfortunate last name for sure. I'm sure Reps are calling him a "flake" for not just voting BK through. Going against your party in such a public way is brave. Smart? I guess we will see but lets not insult the guy for something he might do and instead be happy for what he did do.
Flake has a history of making big, symbolic statements and then voting for the thing he was speaking out against. He did this in when it came to the healthcare bill and the tax bill. He complains about the process, but never backs it up with actions. People are naturally suspicious of his claim that he will vote no if this comes to a full floor vote because of his history.
On September 29 2018 03:22 chocorush wrote:
He could have requested the FBI investigation be done before a vote in committee. That would have been the principled thing to do. Instead, he deferred it to the full senate so that it would be somebody else's responsibility.
To be fair, the head of the committee would need to ask the White House to start an investigation. Grassley is a poopy old man that wants to vote and refused to delay anything. So since Grassley would never agree to it, he threw it in front of the party leadership. I think it might be a better plan because the two people that are looking for an investigation are Collins and Murkowski, the known swing votes in the Senate.
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EPT
