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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5372

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26484 Posts
December 01 2025 00:19 GMT
#107421
What is your point?

You seem to simultaneously be eulogising a period where criminals were put off by mandatory 7 year sentences for any gun crime, while also conceding that crime was worse then? Make it make sense
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17400 Posts
December 01 2025 00:21 GMT
#107422
On December 01 2025 09:19 WombaT wrote:
What is your point?
You seem to simultaneously be eulogising a period where criminals were put off by mandatory 7 year sentences for any gun crime, while also conceding that crime was worse then? Make it make sense

i am introducing facts that verify NYC was far more dangerous in the 1980s and early 1990s than it is today.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43771 Posts
December 01 2025 00:28 GMT
#107423
On December 01 2025 09:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2025 09:19 WombaT wrote:
What is your point?
You seem to simultaneously be eulogising a period where criminals were put off by mandatory 7 year sentences for any gun crime, while also conceding that crime was worse then? Make it make sense

i am introducing facts that verify NYC was far more dangerous in the 1980s and early 1990s than it is today.

You’re mostly describing Seinfeld material from memory.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26484 Posts
December 01 2025 00:47 GMT
#107424
On December 01 2025 09:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2025 09:19 WombaT wrote:
What is your point?
You seem to simultaneously be eulogising a period where criminals were put off by mandatory 7 year sentences for any gun crime, while also conceding that crime was worse then? Make it make sense

i am introducing facts that verify NYC was far more dangerous in the 1980s and early 1990s than it is today.

What is your point?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17400 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-01 01:06:03
December 01 2025 00:54 GMT
#107425
i provided the poitn in my first post about this. i'll repeat here again.
On December 01 2025 08:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
How is this possible? According to Trump a frail old man would get mugged by 30 illegal south american immigrants.

get it now? the hysteria over crime in NYC is unfounded.

Also, I'd like to add that "crime stats" do not provide a full picture. Going back to Seinfeld in the early 90s all his electronics are stolen during a show. During the entire episode he is 100% aware that filing a police report includes a 0% chance his stuff will be recovered. Thus, lots of crimes get committed without being reported. Reporting crimes is often pointless.

Google searches provide a limited perspective of what was going on in the 80s. We are also getting only a limited view of what is happening unless today unless we go there and experience it for ourselves.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
EnDeR_
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Spain2838 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-01 07:01:49
December 01 2025 07:01 GMT
#107426
I know it's not US Pol, but I couldn't help seeing the similarities to US progressives.

www.theguardian.com

Zarah Sultana has boycotted the first day of Your Party’s inaugural conference, throwing the party’s first official gathering into chaos amid disagreements with co-founder Jeremy Corbyn over how the party should be run.


It's a bit of a "what if AOC and Sanders founded their own independent progressive party"?
estás más desubicao q un croissant en un plato de nécoras
Legan
Profile Joined June 2017
Finland577 Posts
December 01 2025 07:27 GMT
#107427
On December 01 2025 08:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2025 08:00 Legan wrote: and drill for any offshore oil. Some people will complain, but many will remain silent to avoid having trouble with their own issues. Trump and Co. will hold anything against anyone who dares to complain. The whole thing will be forgotten in no time. Only people who are considered anti-USA will remember it and bring it up later as an example of the USA acting aggressively.

the oil requires a lot of refining. a metric tonne of infrastructure will have to be put in place to make that possible. Trump will be long gone by the time that becomes possible. The political will to flagrantly break international law will dissipate after Trump's tenure is over. .


The oil is likely more of a bonus for Trump than the war's real goal. He will get his bribes for handing the oil over to companies much earlier. He will probably also use them to claim that the war was profitable for the USA, unlike Iraq or Afghanistan, which will probably do well with his base. Even if the will to break international law dissipates, which I doubt, the wrongdoings will not be acted upon.
Creator of Gresvan, Tropical Sacrifice, Taitalika, and Golden Forge
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18248 Posts
December 01 2025 07:46 GMT
#107428
Easiest way of ending this is probably if the Nobel committee puts out a press release that starting an unjust war with Venezuela will shatter his chances at getting a Nobel Peace Prize.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7327 Posts
December 01 2025 11:46 GMT
#107429
Jimmy, no one needs your post to educate them about crime being worse in the 80s than present day. Everyone who posts here already knows this. Republicans who use crime as a wedge issue and media who rant about crime all the time to drive ratings know this too. They just dont care because the narrative that things are horrible helps accomplish their goals (politically or economically)


Jimmy have you looked into the typical explanations for this? Crack epidemic, lead, loss of jobs/oppprtunities, breakdown of 2 parent home, aggressive policing, racial tensions, etc?

How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany1134 Posts
December 01 2025 12:11 GMT
#107430
Why is killing/removing Maduro in Venezuela bad?

I mean of course the manpower and material would be needed in ukraine, Trump again is breaking promises, and only does this to make $$$.. but Maduro seems like an asshole. A Country with "free" gasoline.. that's...outragious!
Given the power imbalance.... this will be over quick and than it's US nation-building again - as was to be expected because Trump said he wasn't going to do it. Spiking Oil-Prices would be beneficial to the friends of the golden toilet around the globe and hide the ongoing recession - created by Trump-Tariffs.
"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26484 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-01 12:29:01
December 01 2025 12:18 GMT
#107431
On December 01 2025 16:01 EnDeR_ wrote:
I know it's not US Pol, but I couldn't help seeing the similarities to US progressives.

www.theguardian.com

Show nested quote +
Zarah Sultana has boycotted the first day of Your Party’s inaugural conference, throwing the party’s first official gathering into chaos amid disagreements with co-founder Jeremy Corbyn over how the party should be run.


It's a bit of a "what if AOC and Sanders founded their own independent progressive party"?

I can’t see that being quite as much of a clusterfuck as this.

I mean I like Corbyn, but if he has a big weakness it’s the real nuts and bolts of running a party, maintaining discipline, having consistent messaging etc. A problem if one is a political leader, although not an insurmountable one.

But my lord this does really illustrate that. And man the real hardcore Corbynistas gave me giant pushback back in the day for any criticism of Corbyn haha.

That said, from the outside looking in on what’s public, Zarah Sultana feels more to blame, and quite frankly sounds a nightmare to work with. Buttttt if it is an old-boys club and she’s getting pushback at every second juncture as she’s claimed, then I’d feel rather differently there!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1304 Posts
December 01 2025 12:33 GMT
#107432
On December 01 2025 21:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
Why is killing/removing Maduro in Venezuela bad?

I mean of course the manpower and material would be needed in ukraine, Trump again is breaking promises, and only does this to make $$$.. but Maduro seems like an asshole. A Country with "free" gasoline.. that's...outragious!
Given the power imbalance.... this will be over quick and than it's US nation-building again - as was to be expected because Trump said he wasn't going to do it. Spiking Oil-Prices would be beneficial to the friends of the golden toilet around the globe and hide the ongoing recession - created by Trump-Tariffs.


I for one don't really subscribe to "well, this leader is an asshole so lets bomb their country" approach to geopolitics. What stops Trump from saying that Canada, Panama or Mexico are next, will you decide what your reaction to this will be based on how much you like or dislike their current leadership?

How was the power imbalance in Afghanistan? That was another in and out, 20 days adventure, right?

It's like no one learned nothing over the last 30 years, if and when US goes into Venezuela there will be a lot of dead, both military and civilian, the Venezuelan population will suffer because Trump's regime sees them as subhuman and will do jack shit to help the country get to a better place, they will fuck up the infrastructure, install some crony of theirs to loot the country further and then dip out. The looting, of course, will benefit the coffers of Trump and his cronies.

Spiking oil prices will give Russia a lifeline, a lot of their economic turmoil is thanks to low prices of Oil.

People don't take kindly when you come to their country and blow shit up, no matter how much their hate their current piece of shit in charge, this is a disaster waiting to happen and there is 0 hystorical precedent saying otherwise.

If you can name one, please enlighten me, because all I can think of are wonderful places like Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45409 Posts
December 01 2025 13:04 GMT
#107433
It looks like the US military is casually destroying ships and killing people without confirming if they have any connections to drug trafficking. CNN has a timeline and summary of each scenario (I just quoted one of them below, as an example):

The US military has killed 83 people in 21 strikes that have destroyed 22 boats as part of a campaign that Washington says is aimed at curtailing the flow of drugs into the United States. ... The Trump administration has told Congress that the US is now in an “armed conflict” against drug cartels beginning with its first strike on September 2 ... The Trump administration has also not provided public evidence of the presence of narcotics on the boats struck, nor their affiliation with drug cartels. ...

September 2, first attack: Trump announced the offensive on his social media accounts and said that under his orders, US forces “conducted a kinetic strike against positively identified Tren de Aragua Narcoterrorists in the SOUTHCOM area of responsibility.” ... Defense Department officials have not, during briefings to members of Congress, presented conclusive evidence that the targets of the first attack were members of Tren de Aragua, and that those briefed said military officials could not determine the intended destination of the boat with certainty. CNN also reported that the boat appeared to have turned around before it was struck. The strike killed 11 people.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/02/politics/timeline-us-strikes-caribbean-pacific-vis
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17400 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-01 13:22:25
December 01 2025 13:14 GMT
#107434
Here is an interesting "coincidence". A week before his assassination in 1863 Lincoln was in Monroe, Maryland. A week before Kennedy's assassination in 1963 Kennedy was in Marilyn Monroe.

Black Friday spending was up 4.1% compared to last year.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/29/business/black-friday-us-econony-spending

“The story of the economy right now is it’s a bifurcated economy. If you’re lucky enough to own stocks and own a home, you’re part of the upper slant of that cave, that K-shaped economy … you’re going to be comfortable spending a fair amount of money this year,” Newman said.

We are expecting to see Cyber Monday deliver strong.”


User was temp banned for this post.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22180 Posts
December 01 2025 13:22 GMT
#107435
On December 01 2025 21:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
Why is killing/removing Maduro in Venezuela bad?

I mean of course the manpower and material would be needed in ukraine, Trump again is breaking promises, and only does this to make $$$.. but Maduro seems like an asshole. A Country with "free" gasoline.. that's...outragious!
Given the power imbalance.... this will be over quick and than it's US nation-building again - as was to be expected because Trump said he wasn't going to do it. Spiking Oil-Prices would be beneficial to the friends of the golden toilet around the globe and hide the ongoing recession - created by Trump-Tariffs.
Take out the specific person and try again.

Superpower doesn't like country, starts unprovoked war and removes their leadership.

When has this ever in the history of mankind lead to an improvement in anyone's situation?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17400 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-01 13:28:45
December 01 2025 13:26 GMT
#107436
On December 01 2025 21:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
and than it's US nation-building again - as was to be expected because Trump said he wasn't going to do it. Spiking Oil-Prices would be beneficial to the friends of the golden toilet around the globe and hide the ongoing recession - created by Trump-Tariffs.

I always thought the purpose of "Desert Storm" and the time spent in Iraq was intended to destabilize the region causing oil prices to rise. This allows Bush's oil pals to make more money. Obviously, the cost of pulling oil out of the ground in Texas is not going up. Its just another day in Texas. So skyrocketing oil prices are an amazing side effect of fucking around peace keeping in the middle east.

I never bought the "no blood for oil" opposition perspective.

EDIT: and obviously, they are feeding the US Military Industrial Complex during that entire time as well. When you're holding 1000 hammers you'll go any where to find some nails.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45409 Posts
December 01 2025 13:34 GMT
#107437
Trump has confirmed that he wants to invade and/or bomb Venezuela:

(The past few days) "Trump told military service members last week the U.S. would "very soon" begin land operations to stop suspected Venezuelan drug traffickers." https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-confirms-he-spoke-with-venezuelas-maduro-2025-11-30/

(The past few days) " “In recent weeks, you’ve been working to deter Venezuelan drug traffickers, of which there are many. Of course, there aren’t too many coming in by sea anymore,” Trump told service members in the call. “You probably noticed that people aren’t wanting to be delivering by sea, and we’ll be starting to stop them by land also,” the president continued. “The land is easier, but that’s going to start very soon." " https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/27/politics/trump-says-us-land-action-in-venezuela-very-soon

This is an escalation from a few weeks ago, where the original position was to stay away from land operations:

(Almost a month ago) "Trump administration officials told lawmakers on Wednesday that the US is not currently planning to launch strikes inside Venezuela and doesn’t have a legal justification that would support attacks against any land targets right now, according to sources familiar with the briefing conducted by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and an official from the White House’s Office of Legal Counsel. Lawmakers were told during the classified session that the opinion produced by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel to justify strikes against suspected drug boats, first reported by CNN last month, does not permit strikes inside Venezuela itself or any other territories, four sources said. The “execute order” that launched the US military campaign against suspected drug boats that began in September also does not extend to land targets, the briefers said, according to the sources. The officials did not rule out any potential future actions, one of the sources said." https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/06/politics/trump-venezuela-legal-congress-land
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany1134 Posts
December 01 2025 13:43 GMT
#107438
On December 01 2025 22:22 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2025 21:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
Why is killing/removing Maduro in Venezuela bad?

+ Show Spoiler +
I mean of course the manpower and material would be needed in ukraine, Trump again is breaking promises, and only does this to make $$$.. but Maduro seems like an asshole. A Country with "free" gasoline.. that's...outragious!
Given the power imbalance.... this will be over quick and than it's US nation-building again - as was to be expected because Trump said he wasn't going to do it. Spiking Oil-Prices would be beneficial to the friends of the golden toilet around the globe and hide the ongoing recession - created by Trump-Tariffs.
Take out the specific person and try again.

Superpower doesn't like country, starts unprovoked war and removes their leadership.

When has this ever in the history of mankind lead to an improvement in anyone's situation?


[image loading]



"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22180 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-01 14:04:00
December 01 2025 14:03 GMT
#107439
On December 01 2025 22:43 KT_Elwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2025 22:22 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 01 2025 21:11 KT_Elwood wrote:
Why is killing/removing Maduro in Venezuela bad?

+ Show Spoiler +
I mean of course the manpower and material would be needed in ukraine, Trump again is breaking promises, and only does this to make $$$.. but Maduro seems like an asshole. A Country with "free" gasoline.. that's...outragious!
Given the power imbalance.... this will be over quick and than it's US nation-building again - as was to be expected because Trump said he wasn't going to do it. Spiking Oil-Prices would be beneficial to the friends of the golden toilet around the globe and hide the ongoing recession - created by Trump-Tariffs.
Take out the specific person and try again.

Superpower doesn't like country, starts unprovoked war and removes their leadership.

When has this ever in the history of mankind lead to an improvement in anyone's situation?

lol ww 2
Superpower doesn't like country, starts UNPROVOKED war and removes their leadership

wanne try again?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Legan
Profile Joined June 2017
Finland577 Posts
December 01 2025 14:15 GMT
#107440
I think the main scepticism about eliminating Maduro is that there is no trust in Trump and others. Trump won't care about Venezuelans, and any new government will have to prioritise pleasing Trump over their own people. This gives Trump and his friends quite a few options. Military junta, puppet, Milei-like libertarian, or Board for Peace all seem like options they could go for. These are unlikely to stop the campaign against narcoterrorists, and I doubt they care if strikes blow up innocent people who are being forced to work for cartels. How long this would last is also questionable.

Outside of Venezuela, there is a chance that a similar strategy will be implemented against other South American countries, and the campaign against narcoterrorists can be expanded. Trump has already attacked at least Honduras and Brazil over their current leadership.

Maybe not so many will get killed in chaos or by the USA, but fear and control will allow wealth to be funnelled to Trump and those willing to support him.
Creator of Gresvan, Tropical Sacrifice, Taitalika, and Golden Forge
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