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On September 16 2025 22:12 Jankisa wrote:
Can you imagine if Obama went online and said that anyone who sees someone posting bad shit about Treyvon Martin should report them to their boss? The fucking screeching about cancel culture would still echo until today.
Pointing out their brazen hypocrisy makes conservatives happier, not introspective. They want to live in a world where they can be openly hypocritical and can indict everyone else based on whatever is momentarily advantageous to them. They don't want an even playing field because they know they look like either idiots or nihilists for their rapid-fire inconsistency. They said Obama was a dictator for issuing so many Executive Orders and wasting the taxpayers' dime by golfing so much, call them out on Trump issuing even more EOs and golfing even more and they'll either lie or you'll get something like "you libtards normalized it" (which itself is predicated on a lie, and ignores the hypocrisy regardless).
Some of them are aware of this and gleefully play along (Sartre's quote about antisemites is relevant), the ones that seem genuinely confused don't see the obvious hypocrisy because they've been conditioned to only trust media that gaslight them.
Frank Herbert's Children of Dune had a great quote about this: "When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles."
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This is terrible. Sadly, we've already established that Republicans care about humans up until the moment of birth, but they don't value the life and health of babies.
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Bizarrely it seems like Pam Bondi did more to unite Americans than anyone else in recent history:
https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1967754339612758178
"There's free speech and then there's hate speech"
At least comments prove that there are still some sane people left in US.
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This situation illustrates why respectability politics always fail so badly. Racists will not give you room or listen, and while you are trying to get their respect, you have to stay silent on important issues. This leads to the issue causing even more problems. Suddenly admitting that the issues exist leads to claims that the issue can't exist, as it was not discussed when things were worse.
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On September 16 2025 22:12 Jankisa wrote:
So JD Vance, broadcasting from the White House calling people who didn't like CK "terrorist sympathizers", he went on to call out Soros (very well known target of RW conspiracy theories) for financing the Nation magazine in which they allegedly misquoted CK, despite them quoting him exactly. That's the "black women don't have the brain processing power" about "DEI picks" Michelle Obama, Kenji Brown and Joy Reed quote.
He also went on to say that if anyone sees anyone who is saying anything problematic about CK online that they should call their boss and have them fired.
Can you imagine if Obama went online and said that anyone who sees someone posting bad shit about Treyvon Martin should report them to their boss? The fucking screeching about cancel culture would still echo until today.
Regarding the shooter's motivation, I like Drone's analysis but I honestly am yet to see anything that actually confirms the "trans partner" part, everything that came out about that came from Cox who said that Trump called him beforehand and he started spreading this story after, and Kash Patel who had a bizarre Fox interview where he said a bunch of contradicting things.
I think that if this was so cut and dry they would have already indicted the partner and paraded them everywhere, but they haven't, so I don't believe the information coming out about this until something solid comes out.
Given that Tyler Robinson engraved "if you read this, you are gay lmao" into one of his bullet casings, I find it hard to believe that he's an ally of the LGBTQ+ community, let alone in a relationship with someone who's trans. That being said, whether or not he was politically motivated by the left or right doesn't actually matter to Republicans, who immediately called for retribution against Democrats before any specifics of the at-the-time-unknown shooter were discovered or revealed. Democrats are being blamed for the murder of Charlie Kirk, even though we know that Robinson was not a registered Democrat.
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Social Darwinism is what it is. get ahead by any means necessary, at any price and damn the consequences.
paired with nihilism. how else could that same VP who called Trump Hitler not all that long ago arrive where he is today?
he "found" JesusTrump in his heart. and to top it off during that same period of this journey he also joined catholicism...
a god damn farce for people with eyes willing to see.
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Norway28759 Posts
The trans partner part seems plausible to me because I've seen it mentioned from many outlets I consider reputable (for example axios, several norwegian ones too), and because they specify that the roommate has a) absolutely nothing to do with the murder b) been extremely cooperative from the start.
The reasonable thing is to wait and see and not draw conclusions, though.
As far as the 'if you read this you are gay lmao', that's a pretty common discord meme and again, that he's influenced by gamer culture seems like the only certain thing revealed so far. But honestly from what I've seen at this point I think the 'had a trans partner' seems way more likely than 'was a groyper' - and I've moved back and forth on this at least twice by now.
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On September 16 2025 22:34 Razyda wrote:Bizarrely it seems like Pam Bondi did more to unite Americans than anyone else in recent history: https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1967754339612758178"There's free speech and then there's hate speech" At least comments prove that there are still some sane people left in US.
I love how the comments are citing Charlie Kirk disagreeing with her about hate speech lol.
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On September 16 2025 22:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:The trans partner part seems plausible to me because I've seen it mentioned from many outlets I consider reputable (for example axios, several norwegian ones too), and because they specify that the roommate has a) absolutely nothing to do with the murder b) been extremely cooperative from the start.
The reasonable thing is to wait and see and not draw conclusions, though. As far as the 'if you read this you are gay lmao', that's a pretty common discord meme and again, that he's influenced by gamer culture seems like the only certain thing revealed so far. But honestly from what I've seen at this point I think the 'had a trans partner' seems way more likely than 'was a groyper' - and I've moved back and forth on this at least twice by now.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all of those news outlets are citing the same single source: Utah's Republican governor Spencer Cox. Or are there second and third sources corroborating what that governor is saying - that the shooter was dating a trans person? Because multiple news sites all quoting the same single person is still just getting information from one person.
Either way, I agree it's reasonable to wait and see what else we learn about the shooter.
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On September 16 2025 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 22:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:The trans partner part seems plausible to me because I've seen it mentioned from many outlets I consider reputable (for example axios, several norwegian ones too), and because they specify that the roommate has a) absolutely nothing to do with the murder b) been extremely cooperative from the start.
The reasonable thing is to wait and see and not draw conclusions, though. As far as the 'if you read this you are gay lmao', that's a pretty common discord meme and again, that he's influenced by gamer culture seems like the only certain thing revealed so far. But honestly from what I've seen at this point I think the 'had a trans partner' seems way more likely than 'was a groyper' - and I've moved back and forth on this at least twice by now. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all of those news outlets are citing the same single source: Utah's Republican governor Spencer Cox. Or are there second and third sources corroborating what that governor is saying - that the shooter was dating a trans person? Because multiple news sites all quoting the same single person is still just getting information from one person.
Not only that, but the evidence for this claim is that there's an existing social media post where the roommate posted an anime-ification filter of one of their photos that rendered them feminine.
But even if they were trans and even if Robinson was in love with them, that still proves nothing. There were segregationists with black mistresses and Nazis with Jewish mistresses.
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I find it VERY easy to understand why a particularly loathsome and insecure murderer would call someone "gay" who they think will be homophobic, i.e. the supposed anti-LGBTQ police system collecting evidence to prosecute the killing of the supposed anti-LGBTQ Satan that they shot. That's absolutely the same needle as every Mark Twain who thinks it's funny to say maybe every other Republican is secretly gay.
Do you believe there is police use of force that isn't brutality? Otherwise there's no reason for me to go through the methods of these hundreds of sources that I've checked about 10 so far and many are either to dead twitter links, videos that don't show the lead-up, with no context (ex. after disperse and go home orders), or filings of alleged police brutality that went nowhere.
Basically, the more police have to deal with, in general, the more collateral brutality you will get. If you don't want to get tear gassed or pepper sprayed, the easiest way is don't assemble with rioters.
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I bet that the suspect is just a gamer whose current politics are best defined by the last 10 memes they posted in Discord. They will not be coherent or tangible, and that is at least partly by design, as it is funny when someone tries to take the memes seriously and discuss issues properly. This, of course, helps to deflect from all the obviously shitty parts implied by the memes.
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On September 16 2025 23:02 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 16 2025 22:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:The trans partner part seems plausible to me because I've seen it mentioned from many outlets I consider reputable (for example axios, several norwegian ones too), and because they specify that the roommate has a) absolutely nothing to do with the murder b) been extremely cooperative from the start.
The reasonable thing is to wait and see and not draw conclusions, though. As far as the 'if you read this you are gay lmao', that's a pretty common discord meme and again, that he's influenced by gamer culture seems like the only certain thing revealed so far. But honestly from what I've seen at this point I think the 'had a trans partner' seems way more likely than 'was a groyper' - and I've moved back and forth on this at least twice by now. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all of those news outlets are citing the same single source: Utah's Republican governor Spencer Cox. Or are there second and third sources corroborating what that governor is saying - that the shooter was dating a trans person? Because multiple news sites all quoting the same single person is still just getting information from one person. Not only that, but the evidence for this claim is that there's an existing social media post where the roommate posted an anime-ification filter of one of their photos that rendered them feminine.But even if they were trans and even if Robinson was in love with them, that still proves nothing. There were segregationists with black mistresses and Nazis with Jewish mistresses.
And even more closely related: Charlie Kirk's racism against black people is well-documented, despite him having a black friend (Candace Owens).
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On September 16 2025 23:04 oBlade wrote:
Basically, the more police have to deal with, in general, the more collateral brutality you will get. If you don't want to get tear gassed or pepper sprayed, the easiest way is don't assemble with rioters.
So this justifies "five [police] attacks on medics", "Philadelphia officers stood by as a group of rightwing men attacked a journalist" etc.?
Hey, everyone outraged about people justifying political violence, I found one of the culprits.
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Northern Ireland26354 Posts
On September 16 2025 13:57 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 11:17 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 10:40 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 10:26 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 10:12 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 10:06 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk?
It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves.
I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be. Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context. I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all. It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum. The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever. You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in. I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out. And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse. Most of the studies about what counts as political violence are, it would not be shocking to find out, hopeless. KwarK might not believe this either, but if this was a right-wing forum full of people cheering on the murder of some political figure we didn't like I would object to that too. And at least for me it's not just right-wing grievance. If you will recall I was also alarmed by the high praise heaped on Mangione, and I have no idea about the politics of the CEO. Taking a consistent stance that murder is bad is not hard (though many still fail apparently) and is not just grievance. That isn’t my point though. My point is that the American right has been actively poisonous and hateful, and indulged in being so for a considerable length of time, and this is what you get. For public figures who actively contributed to this state of affairs, demanding respect for Charlie Kirk is preposterous. In a general, greater good sense I think this kind of gloating and ghoulishness is a bad thing. But I’m not going to be lectured on it by ghouls, they can fuck right off. I’ve bemoaned hateful, divisive rhetoric as long as I’ve been politically conscious, and it’s all this current trend towards right wing populism brings to the table. They can’t stoke this environment and then demand respect when it’s one of theirs, this isn’t how it remotely works. Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people. I'm glad you brought up Mangione in your last point because that's part of what makes me suspicious. That guy didn't advocate for anything and didn't do anything...except we know that the left does believe he did do something. And they viewed that as execution worthy, and a distressingly few people we willing to say anything. So it's a good example not just to defend my own consistency but because also (assuming good faith here) it could demonstrate some sort of intellectually defensible position instead of a bloodlust. Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people. Like I'm sorry, but I'm not sure even disagreements about those things are considered safe by a large number of people on that side. e.g. not wanting to be taxed more is viewed as selfish hatred of those less well off. If I may be less chartable I suspect Kirk could have been said things in the nicest, least offensive way and they would still say he deserved it. To be perfectly frank I think there are people out there who want something and will find a reason afterwards. And apparently not many people are interested in stopping them. Again, you don't have to like Kirk, or the CEO. That's kind of a big part of the whole point. I’m not talking about Kirk, I’m talking about a decade+ of absolute bile being actively encouraged and enabled by the right. And an insurrection attempt just handwaved away, and I mean innumerable other things besides. Where we are now is the natural consequence of that, good job guys! Well fucking done. Now the left is getting more violent too, yay! Really good course of action… In the abstract, yes I think a return to general decency would be nice. I’m not going to heed any call from right wing political figures to do so because it’s brazenly hypocritical. It’s like Stormy Daniels going on a campaign for sexual abstinence Exactly. It is the horribly hypocritical onesidedness of this fake rightwing outrage that people rightfully object to. Also, the fact that if you give them decency, they just laugh in your face and go even more indecent the next time things are the other way around, and if you remind them of how you were decent when it was their turn, they just go "lol idiot" if they are honest, or "that was completely different!" if they are dishonest. It is not like we haven't lived that experience 50 times over in the last decade.
Precisely.
I don’t think say, Barack Obama is a saint by all means, but you just know he’d give one hell of a speech, striking just the right tone of unifying calm if it were on his watch. Small in the grander scheme of things sure, but I think it’s still very important.
Credit where due, I felt the statements and actions of the Utah and Ohio governors, both Reps were also pretty heartfelt, prudent and responsible. I don’t know much about them otherwise,
In other quarters, no, not remotely responsible behaviour, but throwing petrol on the fire. Joe and Jane public of course will speculate, political leaders should not be doing things like blaming left wing violence before Kirk’s body is even cold, and way before that’s actually confirmed.
Decency begets decency, and honesty begets honesty. I may still strive to be decent and honest off my own bat, but I’m not going to be implored to by a political movement that frequently abandon even the pretence of either.
And, as I have stressed quite a bit, it’s not all conservatives, it’s this poisonous, populist MAGA movement, and those who enable its aims to drag things into the gutter. The regular old British centre right, I assume many in Europe similarly, it’s still (relatively) cordial, regular old political disagreement:
It’s a different beast, the dishonesty and irresponsible rhetoric is way off the charts. It’s abnormal. Of course, it’s only abnormal until it becomes the new normal.
I’m not deluded, plenty of vitriol was thrown at Bush, at Obama, but the overall culture was nothing like as extreme as today.
If a key Bush ally did a Nazi salute at the inauguration, many conservatives, much less liberals would have been outraged, and that ally would have been excised from the administration. Today, people can’t even admit that Musk did it, not once, but twice with footage from tons of angles showing it.
If Bush (or more aptly, Gore) had stoked the fires and had supporters storm the Capitol building, they’re gone from frontline politics, condemned by both sides of the ledger. Nowadays folks can’t even admit that Trump was irresponsible in any way here, much less admit that he was engaged in any kind of coup. Nor bat an eyelid when he blanket pardons those who did.
Why do I care so much? Because this shite isn’t confined to the US, it’s being actively exported to make mine, and your society worse too. Gun violence is tragic for Americans, we’re not in any danger of emulating that any time soon.
Elon Musk and Steve Bannon, who have their fingers all over this ‘project’ recently spoke at a far-right rally in the UK. Musk keeps trying to interject to boost the AfD in Germany, etc.
America’s got plenty of great exports, like Jimi Hendrix, but this form of discourse, these ‘culture wars’ and all the social media manipulation that amplifies them is sure as fuck not one. I’d genuinely probably rather it be Fentanyl
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On September 16 2025 23:07 Legan wrote:
I bet that the suspect is just a gamer whose current politics are best defined by the last 10 memes they posted in Discord. They will not be coherent or tangible, and that is at least partly by design, as it is funny when someone tries to take the memes seriously and discuss issues properly. This, of course, helps to deflect from all the obviously shitty parts implied by the memes.
It's kinda funny that you could also say all this about Trump.
Only that he for some reason is allowed to write the "memes" into executive orders..
Today, people can’t even admit that Musk did it, not once, but twice with footage from tons of angles showing it.
Thats just because Kpop wasn't big back then.
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Northern Ireland26354 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:34 Razyda wrote:Bizarrely it seems like Pam Bondi did more to unite Americans than anyone else in recent history: https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1967754339612758178"There's free speech and then there's hate speech" At least comments prove that there are still some sane people left in US.
Weird way to spell Luigi.
In seriousness, what’s she uniting here? She’s at the centre of an incredibly divisive government, who’s going to listen to her outside of that orbit?
Furthermore, how is this any different from what broadly the left (as well as some on the centre right) have been saying for [i]years[/i/] about the toxicity of general discourse, especially on social media.
Only to routinely get shut down, by the likes of you who don’t agree on censorship of basically any kind.
Why is Pam Bondi saying it a unifying statement all of a sudden?
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Kinda funny how quickly and abruptly the US turned from this beacon of hope and social progress when they elected Obama TWICE to then electing Trump (TWICE) and "undoing" all of the perceived progress and then some more (so like from a +5 to a -20 )
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On September 16 2025 23:02 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 16 2025 22:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:The trans partner part seems plausible to me because I've seen it mentioned from many outlets I consider reputable (for example axios, several norwegian ones too), and because they specify that the roommate has a) absolutely nothing to do with the murder b) been extremely cooperative from the start.
The reasonable thing is to wait and see and not draw conclusions, though. As far as the 'if you read this you are gay lmao', that's a pretty common discord meme and again, that he's influenced by gamer culture seems like the only certain thing revealed so far. But honestly from what I've seen at this point I think the 'had a trans partner' seems way more likely than 'was a groyper' - and I've moved back and forth on this at least twice by now. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all of those news outlets are citing the same single source: Utah's Republican governor Spencer Cox. Or are there second and third sources corroborating what that governor is saying - that the shooter was dating a trans person? Because multiple news sites all quoting the same single person is still just getting information from one person. Not only that, but the evidence for this claim is that there's an existing social media post where the roommate posted an anime-ification filter of one of their photos that rendered them feminine.But even if they were trans and even if Robinson was in love with them, that still proves nothing. There were segregationists with black mistresses and Nazis with Jewish mistresses.
This person is not the roommate.
I do agree that if the governor says it, it's prolly likely the roommate is trans. (And no that doesn't matter at all.)
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On September 16 2025 23:19 WombaT wrote:Weird way to spell Luigi. In seriousness, what’s she uniting here? She’s at the centre of an incredibly divisive government, who’s going to listen to her outside of that orbit? Furthermore, how is this any different from what broadly the left (as well as some on the centre right) have been saying for [i]years[/i/] about the toxicity of general discourse, especially on social media. Only to routinely get shut down, by the likes of you who don’t agree on censorship of basically any kind. Why is Pam Bondi saying it a unifying statement all of a sudden?
It is because she got quickly condemned by both liberal and conservative folks.
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EPT
