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On September 16 2025 09:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:51 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 09:18 LightSpectra wrote:
You are 100% in an echo chamber if you didn't see or hear anyone cheering for violence against Democrats. It's not debatable. Even if we assumed that was true for the sake of argument it doesn't stop you saying that gleeful celebration is bad no matter who does it. This really is the bare, basement level expectation. Instead we just get different versions of "they made me do it" or "they started it!" And we don't have to broaden, we can read it here. You could post this exact paragraph in response to how Charlie Kirk talked about George Floyd.
Saying negative things about someone after they die is not the same, and that's not what I'm criticizing. And it's still deflection, because I have very intentionally avoided being dragged into parsing his words, considering that, again, we can't even yet meet the bare minimum requirements.
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We're on our, what, 20th? 30th? page of this thread since Kirk was shot, and conservatives are still weeping blood because nobody cares about their fake outrage after demonstrating their blatant, uncaring hypocrisy a hundred times in a row.
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On September 16 2025 09:15 KwarK wrote:
The left dominate the media? Really? We’re trying that again?
Yes they are. If you want to do litmus test: every single media which referred to BLM riots as peaceful protests is left leaning. It is really that simple.
On September 16 2025 09:40 Hat Trick of Today wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:15 KwarK wrote:
The left dominate the media? Really? We’re trying that again? There’s a reason why there has never been a good retort to the failing ratings garbage Trump used to spout because there’s a lot of truth in there. Did you know Gutfield is the highest rating late night show in America? Like literally the only “big” left wing political commentator is Hasan Piker. Compared to how many right wing political commentators and podcasts?
It does say a lot that this dude is the only "big" left leaning commentator. Anyone not left spilling shit this dude does would be banned instantly. Also how the f...k you call it media? People listen to who they want. Oh no, turns out that people are not interested in bushtit spreading from MSM, or left leaning streamers. Dude advocates socialism, from multimillion dollar house, very on brand for socialism.
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Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 01:29 Razyda wrote:On September 16 2025 00:40 Jankisa wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
So as you can see I dont agree with him on everything, and somehow dont think he deserved getting murdered.
Again, you are doing your favorite thing, putting words in people's mouths. I don't, and have never said he deserved to be murdered. I, unlike him, am very much against any kind of executions (yes, including Trump, Miller, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.) because it is my strong belief that killing someone makes the person and the system that commit this, no matter how just worse for it. I don't even think CK should have been silenced or jailed, I think he was expressing his opinions which is his right, even tho I believe that those opinions and especially the way he espoused them and in support of what made him a huge piece of shit. None of that means that him being assassinated makes pointing these things out wrong, in poor taste or whatever moniker you guys want to assign to it. Fair point, my last sentence was more of saying what I think, rather than reference to your post. For what is worth I dont think of him as PoS either. On September 16 2025 00:19 WombaT wrote:
I will note that any time there’s talk about trying to regulate social media so it’s not a hate-filled, misinformational cesspit, be it from the left or from those of a more centrist persuasion, there’s gigantic pushback on the very idea itself. People should be free to be be arseholes if they want to be arseholes.
Then if folks from the left are complete arseholes that advocacy seems to just dissipate entirely. Here comes the pearl clutching!
Pick a lane like.
I’ll also add that there’s a world of difference between advocating for violence, and being ok with someone snuffing it. It’s completely possible to not wish x individual gets assassinated, but think their passing is for the greater benefit of society. Or, have sympathy with their nearest and dearest, while still thinking that person, being a net negative to society being gone is a net win. These aren’t conflicting things.
Rush Limbaugh who died after a lifetime of hate (albeit, mild by 2025 standards), of lung cancer, after taking money from tobacco companies and spreading bullshit on their behalf? I can’t laugh at that either?
Fucking snowflakes man… Oh please Wombat it is not about it and you know it. People absolutely have the right to celebrate someone getting murdered, as it happens I also have the right to say what I think about it. On September 16 2025 00:10 LightSpectra wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
MLK jr - depends what you believe, dude did some good things and allegedly some bad too. If he indeed witnessed and encouraged rape, then yeah that would make him pretty awful. I dont know if thats the case, but if someone believed it, then statement like this would be fully justified. This was based on a claim made by conservative David Garrow that basically every scholar across the political spectrum has spoken out against. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/08/martin-luther-king-david-garrow-essay-claimshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrow#Life_and_careerBesides, Charlie Kirk supported Donald Trump for President despite the latter being an adjudicated rapist. I wonder what the difference is? - do you think that countries should be Christian theocracies - no, but I dont see what is hateful about it, and it is definitely not a nazi position. It was literally the Nazi position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_ChristianityAlso Islamic theocracies exist, what so much worse about christianity that wanting one makes you hateful or PoS? Ah yes, because everyone across the political spectrum in the USA is very happy with and supportive of what Iran is like. I'm reminded of a tweet by some Trump supporter that said (paraphrased) "Wait a minute, the Taliban was against abortion and vaccines? Maybe we were on the wrong side the entire time..." - that the "Great replacement theory" is true? I mean in the literal way CK did, a cabal of globalists (an anti-Semitic dog whistle) is trying to replace white people with Mexicans, Muslims, Blacks etc.?
Dont think it is some cabal, it seems to be happening organically if you look at birth rates. This is, again, a literally Neo-Nazi conspiracy theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_theory#White_genocide_conspiracy_theory He believed in god, how am i supposed to know what else he believed? You have US in your profile, you could have gone and ask him that. Not it wasnt nazi position like wtf you talking about. Even in wikipedia article you linked: "Leading Nazis like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann, and Joseph Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianise Germany" Your Iran question have nothing to do with what I said and I dont know if what I said reflect conservatives position, it was my own musings on the topic. Dude birth rates are not conspiracy theory, also I dare say that given unlimited time everyone will end up mixed race and there is nothing wrong with that. On September 15 2025 23:24 Magic Powers wrote:- would you force your 10 year old female child that was raped carry the pregnancy to term? I honestly dont know My good sir, there is one correct answer and one correct answer only. You should literally never force any rape victim to carry. Ever. And especially not your own daughter. "I honestly don't know" tells me either one of two things: you refuse to think about it, in which case I advise you to start thinking now and come to the correct conclusion quickly. Or it tells me you are in fact willing to force your own daughter to carry. Just willingness alone, in my book, strictly disqualifies you from fatherhood. Unfortunately I don't have a say in that, but I hope you'll never be in a position to make such a decision because clearly you're willing to make a very evil choice. And you have the gall to call anybody monsters? You can't be serious. This is pure comedy, I will respond in kind. You should never force women to abortion, it is disgusting that you think you have the right to do so. On September 15 2025 23:26 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2025 23:23 Razyda wrote:On September 15 2025 20:50 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2025 20:29 Razyda wrote:On September 12 2025 16:32 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Bruh, you never liked me. You may've liked my political views because they weren't so disaligned with yours at the time. Or at least you thought.
I will still defend free speech. The way it's done in my country is that you can say literally anything that's not a call to violence or a death threat or something like that.You're even allowed to question the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. What you're not allowed to do is question the Holocaust without evidence. In America you don't need a shred of evidence. Our way is better, and America's way is worse. This is simply a matter of fact.
So I will not defend absolute free speech. I've outgrown that phase years ago. I genuinely did. I found your arguments wanting, but they seemed to be coming from the things like compassion. Here however you picked a side of the people posting shit like this (purposedly put link instead of image, this shit is sickening): https://x.com/truckdriverpleb/status/1966647017016324289/photo/2I dont think you can be accused of having any sort of compassion any more. On September 15 2025 17:21 Magic Powers wrote:
I don't know about ya'll but my social media search results (just "Charlie Kirk", nothing else) are heavily pushing every content that's defending or honoring Charlie Kirk while heavily censoring anything revealing his racism and his hatred. I can't find literally anything about the latter with neutral search terms. The bias is overwhelmingly in his favor.
Something's up.
Like, he's practically being glorified on Youtube by the search algorithm. I'm not exaggerating. Maybe, just maybe, all you knew about they guy came from places like this one, or reddit, but you never bothered to check? I've never said Kirk deserved death, I've said the literal opposite. You're imagining things. Get back to reality. I didnt state that you said he deserved death. It is more of a reference to how utterly devastated you were by his murder... On September 11 2025 06:20 Magic Powers wrote:
Guns may not save lives, but they did save my day. Oh no, I didn't fall to the ground in tears. Cry me a river. Kirk didn't deserve death, but he did deserve to be shut up for good one way or another, other than through death. Unfortunately he chose not to shut up and someone else decided for him that his time on this planet was over. You are not in a position to judge me. So the only thing which prevents you from saving the US is 8th amendment. Why I am not surprised. And of course I am in position to judge you, everyone you ever met is making judgements about you. And so do you. It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk? It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves. I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be.
Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context.
I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all.
It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum.
The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever.
You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it
People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in.
I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out.
And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse.
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On September 16 2025 10:06 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 01:29 Razyda wrote:On September 16 2025 00:40 Jankisa wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
So as you can see I dont agree with him on everything, and somehow dont think he deserved getting murdered.
Again, you are doing your favorite thing, putting words in people's mouths. I don't, and have never said he deserved to be murdered. I, unlike him, am very much against any kind of executions (yes, including Trump, Miller, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.) because it is my strong belief that killing someone makes the person and the system that commit this, no matter how just worse for it. I don't even think CK should have been silenced or jailed, I think he was expressing his opinions which is his right, even tho I believe that those opinions and especially the way he espoused them and in support of what made him a huge piece of shit. None of that means that him being assassinated makes pointing these things out wrong, in poor taste or whatever moniker you guys want to assign to it. Fair point, my last sentence was more of saying what I think, rather than reference to your post. For what is worth I dont think of him as PoS either. On September 16 2025 00:19 WombaT wrote:
I will note that any time there’s talk about trying to regulate social media so it’s not a hate-filled, misinformational cesspit, be it from the left or from those of a more centrist persuasion, there’s gigantic pushback on the very idea itself. People should be free to be be arseholes if they want to be arseholes.
Then if folks from the left are complete arseholes that advocacy seems to just dissipate entirely. Here comes the pearl clutching!
Pick a lane like.
I’ll also add that there’s a world of difference between advocating for violence, and being ok with someone snuffing it. It’s completely possible to not wish x individual gets assassinated, but think their passing is for the greater benefit of society. Or, have sympathy with their nearest and dearest, while still thinking that person, being a net negative to society being gone is a net win. These aren’t conflicting things.
Rush Limbaugh who died after a lifetime of hate (albeit, mild by 2025 standards), of lung cancer, after taking money from tobacco companies and spreading bullshit on their behalf? I can’t laugh at that either?
Fucking snowflakes man… Oh please Wombat it is not about it and you know it. People absolutely have the right to celebrate someone getting murdered, as it happens I also have the right to say what I think about it. On September 16 2025 00:10 LightSpectra wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
MLK jr - depends what you believe, dude did some good things and allegedly some bad too. If he indeed witnessed and encouraged rape, then yeah that would make him pretty awful. I dont know if thats the case, but if someone believed it, then statement like this would be fully justified. This was based on a claim made by conservative David Garrow that basically every scholar across the political spectrum has spoken out against. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/08/martin-luther-king-david-garrow-essay-claimshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrow#Life_and_careerBesides, Charlie Kirk supported Donald Trump for President despite the latter being an adjudicated rapist. I wonder what the difference is? - do you think that countries should be Christian theocracies - no, but I dont see what is hateful about it, and it is definitely not a nazi position. It was literally the Nazi position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_ChristianityAlso Islamic theocracies exist, what so much worse about christianity that wanting one makes you hateful or PoS? Ah yes, because everyone across the political spectrum in the USA is very happy with and supportive of what Iran is like. I'm reminded of a tweet by some Trump supporter that said (paraphrased) "Wait a minute, the Taliban was against abortion and vaccines? Maybe we were on the wrong side the entire time..." - that the "Great replacement theory" is true? I mean in the literal way CK did, a cabal of globalists (an anti-Semitic dog whistle) is trying to replace white people with Mexicans, Muslims, Blacks etc.?
Dont think it is some cabal, it seems to be happening organically if you look at birth rates. This is, again, a literally Neo-Nazi conspiracy theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_theory#White_genocide_conspiracy_theory He believed in god, how am i supposed to know what else he believed? You have US in your profile, you could have gone and ask him that. Not it wasnt nazi position like wtf you talking about. Even in wikipedia article you linked: "Leading Nazis like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann, and Joseph Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianise Germany" Your Iran question have nothing to do with what I said and I dont know if what I said reflect conservatives position, it was my own musings on the topic. Dude birth rates are not conspiracy theory, also I dare say that given unlimited time everyone will end up mixed race and there is nothing wrong with that. On September 15 2025 23:24 Magic Powers wrote:- would you force your 10 year old female child that was raped carry the pregnancy to term? I honestly dont know My good sir, there is one correct answer and one correct answer only. You should literally never force any rape victim to carry. Ever. And especially not your own daughter. "I honestly don't know" tells me either one of two things: you refuse to think about it, in which case I advise you to start thinking now and come to the correct conclusion quickly. Or it tells me you are in fact willing to force your own daughter to carry. Just willingness alone, in my book, strictly disqualifies you from fatherhood. Unfortunately I don't have a say in that, but I hope you'll never be in a position to make such a decision because clearly you're willing to make a very evil choice. And you have the gall to call anybody monsters? You can't be serious. This is pure comedy, I will respond in kind. You should never force women to abortion, it is disgusting that you think you have the right to do so. On September 15 2025 23:26 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2025 23:23 Razyda wrote:On September 15 2025 20:50 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2025 20:29 Razyda wrote:[quote] I genuinely did. I found your arguments wanting, but they seemed to be coming from the things like compassion. Here however you picked a side of the people posting shit like this (purposedly put link instead of image, this shit is sickening): https://x.com/truckdriverpleb/status/1966647017016324289/photo/2I dont think you can be accused of having any sort of compassion any more. [quote] Maybe, just maybe, all you knew about they guy came from places like this one, or reddit, but you never bothered to check? I've never said Kirk deserved death, I've said the literal opposite. You're imagining things. Get back to reality. I didnt state that you said he deserved death. It is more of a reference to how utterly devastated you were by his murder... On September 11 2025 06:20 Magic Powers wrote:
Guns may not save lives, but they did save my day. Oh no, I didn't fall to the ground in tears. Cry me a river. Kirk didn't deserve death, but he did deserve to be shut up for good one way or another, other than through death. Unfortunately he chose not to shut up and someone else decided for him that his time on this planet was over. You are not in a position to judge me. So the only thing which prevents you from saving the US is 8th amendment. Why I am not surprised. And of course I am in position to judge you, everyone you ever met is making judgements about you. And so do you. It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk? It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves. I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be. Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context. I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all. It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum. The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever. You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in. I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out. And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse.
Most of the studies about what counts as political violence are, it would not be shocking to find out, hopeless.
KwarK might not believe this either, but if this was a right-wing forum full of people cheering on the murder of some political figure we didn't like I would object to that too. And at least for me it's not just right-wing grievance. If you will recall I was also alarmed by the high praise heaped on Mangione, and I have no idea about the politics of the CEO. Taking a consistent stance that murder is bad is not hard (though many still fail apparently) and is not just grievance.
edit: in fact I'd love to know how praising the healthcare CEO shooting goes along with this. It doesn't have an obvious "you made us do it" valance and yet it got praise all over the place.
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Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On September 16 2025 10:06 LightSpectra wrote:
We're on our, what, 20th? 30th? page of this thread since Kirk was shot, and conservatives are still weeping blood because nobody cares about their fake outrage after demonstrating their blatant, uncaring hypocrisy a hundred times in a row.
It used to be ‘you can’t be racist these days without being called racist!’
Now they’re annoyed that their absolute bullshit is being called out. Which totally isn’t on them, obviously…
‘Why aren’t you taking me seriously when I’ve demonstrated repeatedly I’m wholly unserious and hypocritical about my own belief system’
My heart bleeds, it really does. I do somewhat yearn for my teenage years when conservatives and me vociferously disagreed on much, but I generally didn’t feel they were completely full of shit.
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Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On September 16 2025 10:12 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 10:06 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 01:29 Razyda wrote:On September 16 2025 00:40 Jankisa wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
So as you can see I dont agree with him on everything, and somehow dont think he deserved getting murdered.
Again, you are doing your favorite thing, putting words in people's mouths. I don't, and have never said he deserved to be murdered. I, unlike him, am very much against any kind of executions (yes, including Trump, Miller, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.) because it is my strong belief that killing someone makes the person and the system that commit this, no matter how just worse for it. I don't even think CK should have been silenced or jailed, I think he was expressing his opinions which is his right, even tho I believe that those opinions and especially the way he espoused them and in support of what made him a huge piece of shit. None of that means that him being assassinated makes pointing these things out wrong, in poor taste or whatever moniker you guys want to assign to it. Fair point, my last sentence was more of saying what I think, rather than reference to your post. For what is worth I dont think of him as PoS either. On September 16 2025 00:19 WombaT wrote:
I will note that any time there’s talk about trying to regulate social media so it’s not a hate-filled, misinformational cesspit, be it from the left or from those of a more centrist persuasion, there’s gigantic pushback on the very idea itself. People should be free to be be arseholes if they want to be arseholes.
Then if folks from the left are complete arseholes that advocacy seems to just dissipate entirely. Here comes the pearl clutching!
Pick a lane like.
I’ll also add that there’s a world of difference between advocating for violence, and being ok with someone snuffing it. It’s completely possible to not wish x individual gets assassinated, but think their passing is for the greater benefit of society. Or, have sympathy with their nearest and dearest, while still thinking that person, being a net negative to society being gone is a net win. These aren’t conflicting things.
Rush Limbaugh who died after a lifetime of hate (albeit, mild by 2025 standards), of lung cancer, after taking money from tobacco companies and spreading bullshit on their behalf? I can’t laugh at that either?
Fucking snowflakes man… Oh please Wombat it is not about it and you know it. People absolutely have the right to celebrate someone getting murdered, as it happens I also have the right to say what I think about it. On September 16 2025 00:10 LightSpectra wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
MLK jr - depends what you believe, dude did some good things and allegedly some bad too. If he indeed witnessed and encouraged rape, then yeah that would make him pretty awful. I dont know if thats the case, but if someone believed it, then statement like this would be fully justified. This was based on a claim made by conservative David Garrow that basically every scholar across the political spectrum has spoken out against. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/08/martin-luther-king-david-garrow-essay-claimshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrow#Life_and_careerBesides, Charlie Kirk supported Donald Trump for President despite the latter being an adjudicated rapist. I wonder what the difference is? - do you think that countries should be Christian theocracies - no, but I dont see what is hateful about it, and it is definitely not a nazi position. It was literally the Nazi position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_ChristianityAlso Islamic theocracies exist, what so much worse about christianity that wanting one makes you hateful or PoS? Ah yes, because everyone across the political spectrum in the USA is very happy with and supportive of what Iran is like. I'm reminded of a tweet by some Trump supporter that said (paraphrased) "Wait a minute, the Taliban was against abortion and vaccines? Maybe we were on the wrong side the entire time..." - that the "Great replacement theory" is true? I mean in the literal way CK did, a cabal of globalists (an anti-Semitic dog whistle) is trying to replace white people with Mexicans, Muslims, Blacks etc.?
Dont think it is some cabal, it seems to be happening organically if you look at birth rates. This is, again, a literally Neo-Nazi conspiracy theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_theory#White_genocide_conspiracy_theory He believed in god, how am i supposed to know what else he believed? You have US in your profile, you could have gone and ask him that. Not it wasnt nazi position like wtf you talking about. Even in wikipedia article you linked: "Leading Nazis like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann, and Joseph Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianise Germany" Your Iran question have nothing to do with what I said and I dont know if what I said reflect conservatives position, it was my own musings on the topic. Dude birth rates are not conspiracy theory, also I dare say that given unlimited time everyone will end up mixed race and there is nothing wrong with that. On September 15 2025 23:24 Magic Powers wrote:- would you force your 10 year old female child that was raped carry the pregnancy to term? I honestly dont know My good sir, there is one correct answer and one correct answer only. You should literally never force any rape victim to carry. Ever. And especially not your own daughter. "I honestly don't know" tells me either one of two things: you refuse to think about it, in which case I advise you to start thinking now and come to the correct conclusion quickly. Or it tells me you are in fact willing to force your own daughter to carry. Just willingness alone, in my book, strictly disqualifies you from fatherhood. Unfortunately I don't have a say in that, but I hope you'll never be in a position to make such a decision because clearly you're willing to make a very evil choice. And you have the gall to call anybody monsters? You can't be serious. This is pure comedy, I will respond in kind. You should never force women to abortion, it is disgusting that you think you have the right to do so. On September 15 2025 23:26 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2025 23:23 Razyda wrote:On September 15 2025 20:50 Magic Powers wrote:
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I've never said Kirk deserved death, I've said the literal opposite. You're imagining things. Get back to reality. I didnt state that you said he deserved death. It is more of a reference to how utterly devastated you were by his murder... On September 11 2025 06:20 Magic Powers wrote:
Guns may not save lives, but they did save my day. Oh no, I didn't fall to the ground in tears. Cry me a river. Kirk didn't deserve death, but he did deserve to be shut up for good one way or another, other than through death. Unfortunately he chose not to shut up and someone else decided for him that his time on this planet was over. You are not in a position to judge me. So the only thing which prevents you from saving the US is 8th amendment. Why I am not surprised. And of course I am in position to judge you, everyone you ever met is making judgements about you. And so do you. It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk? It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves. I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be. Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context. I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all. It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum. The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever. You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in. I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out. And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse. Most of the studies about what counts as political violence are, it would not be shocking to find out, hopeless. KwarK might not believe this either, but if this was a right-wing forum full of people cheering on the murder of some political figure we didn't like I would object to that too. And at least for me it's not just right-wing grievance. If you will recall I was also alarmed by the high praise heaped on Mangione, and I have no idea about the politics of the CEO. Taking a consistent stance that murder is bad is not hard (though many still fail apparently) and is not just grievance.
That isn’t my point though.
My point is that the American right has been actively poisonous and hateful, and indulged in being so for a considerable length of time, and this is what you get.
For public figures who actively contributed to this state of affairs, demanding respect for Charlie Kirk is preposterous.
In a general, greater good sense I think this kind of gloating and ghoulishness is a bad thing. But I’m not going to be lectured on it by ghouls, they can fuck right off.
I’ve bemoaned hateful, divisive rhetoric as long as I’ve been politically conscious, and it’s all this current trend towards right wing populism brings to the table.
They can’t stoke this environment and then demand respect when it’s one of theirs, this isn’t how it remotely works.
Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people.
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On September 16 2025 10:26 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 10:12 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 10:06 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 01:29 Razyda wrote:On September 16 2025 00:40 Jankisa wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
So as you can see I dont agree with him on everything, and somehow dont think he deserved getting murdered.
Again, you are doing your favorite thing, putting words in people's mouths. I don't, and have never said he deserved to be murdered. I, unlike him, am very much against any kind of executions (yes, including Trump, Miller, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.) because it is my strong belief that killing someone makes the person and the system that commit this, no matter how just worse for it. I don't even think CK should have been silenced or jailed, I think he was expressing his opinions which is his right, even tho I believe that those opinions and especially the way he espoused them and in support of what made him a huge piece of shit. None of that means that him being assassinated makes pointing these things out wrong, in poor taste or whatever moniker you guys want to assign to it. Fair point, my last sentence was more of saying what I think, rather than reference to your post. For what is worth I dont think of him as PoS either. On September 16 2025 00:19 WombaT wrote:
I will note that any time there’s talk about trying to regulate social media so it’s not a hate-filled, misinformational cesspit, be it from the left or from those of a more centrist persuasion, there’s gigantic pushback on the very idea itself. People should be free to be be arseholes if they want to be arseholes.
Then if folks from the left are complete arseholes that advocacy seems to just dissipate entirely. Here comes the pearl clutching!
Pick a lane like.
I’ll also add that there’s a world of difference between advocating for violence, and being ok with someone snuffing it. It’s completely possible to not wish x individual gets assassinated, but think their passing is for the greater benefit of society. Or, have sympathy with their nearest and dearest, while still thinking that person, being a net negative to society being gone is a net win. These aren’t conflicting things.
Rush Limbaugh who died after a lifetime of hate (albeit, mild by 2025 standards), of lung cancer, after taking money from tobacco companies and spreading bullshit on their behalf? I can’t laugh at that either?
Fucking snowflakes man… Oh please Wombat it is not about it and you know it. People absolutely have the right to celebrate someone getting murdered, as it happens I also have the right to say what I think about it. On September 16 2025 00:10 LightSpectra wrote:On September 15 2025 23:08 Razyda wrote:
MLK jr - depends what you believe, dude did some good things and allegedly some bad too. If he indeed witnessed and encouraged rape, then yeah that would make him pretty awful. I dont know if thats the case, but if someone believed it, then statement like this would be fully justified. This was based on a claim made by conservative David Garrow that basically every scholar across the political spectrum has spoken out against. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/08/martin-luther-king-david-garrow-essay-claimshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrow#Life_and_careerBesides, Charlie Kirk supported Donald Trump for President despite the latter being an adjudicated rapist. I wonder what the difference is? - do you think that countries should be Christian theocracies - no, but I dont see what is hateful about it, and it is definitely not a nazi position. It was literally the Nazi position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_ChristianityAlso Islamic theocracies exist, what so much worse about christianity that wanting one makes you hateful or PoS? Ah yes, because everyone across the political spectrum in the USA is very happy with and supportive of what Iran is like. I'm reminded of a tweet by some Trump supporter that said (paraphrased) "Wait a minute, the Taliban was against abortion and vaccines? Maybe we were on the wrong side the entire time..." - that the "Great replacement theory" is true? I mean in the literal way CK did, a cabal of globalists (an anti-Semitic dog whistle) is trying to replace white people with Mexicans, Muslims, Blacks etc.?
Dont think it is some cabal, it seems to be happening organically if you look at birth rates. This is, again, a literally Neo-Nazi conspiracy theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_theory#White_genocide_conspiracy_theory He believed in god, how am i supposed to know what else he believed? You have US in your profile, you could have gone and ask him that. Not it wasnt nazi position like wtf you talking about. Even in wikipedia article you linked: "Leading Nazis like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann, and Joseph Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianise Germany" Your Iran question have nothing to do with what I said and I dont know if what I said reflect conservatives position, it was my own musings on the topic. Dude birth rates are not conspiracy theory, also I dare say that given unlimited time everyone will end up mixed race and there is nothing wrong with that. On September 15 2025 23:24 Magic Powers wrote:- would you force your 10 year old female child that was raped carry the pregnancy to term? I honestly dont know My good sir, there is one correct answer and one correct answer only. You should literally never force any rape victim to carry. Ever. And especially not your own daughter. "I honestly don't know" tells me either one of two things: you refuse to think about it, in which case I advise you to start thinking now and come to the correct conclusion quickly. Or it tells me you are in fact willing to force your own daughter to carry. Just willingness alone, in my book, strictly disqualifies you from fatherhood. Unfortunately I don't have a say in that, but I hope you'll never be in a position to make such a decision because clearly you're willing to make a very evil choice. And you have the gall to call anybody monsters? You can't be serious. This is pure comedy, I will respond in kind. You should never force women to abortion, it is disgusting that you think you have the right to do so. On September 15 2025 23:26 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2025 23:23 Razyda wrote:
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I didnt state that you said he deserved death. It is more of a reference to how utterly devastated you were by his murder...
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Oh no, I didn't fall to the ground in tears. Cry me a river. Kirk didn't deserve death, but he did deserve to be shut up for good one way or another, other than through death. Unfortunately he chose not to shut up and someone else decided for him that his time on this planet was over. You are not in a position to judge me. So the only thing which prevents you from saving the US is 8th amendment. Why I am not surprised. And of course I am in position to judge you, everyone you ever met is making judgements about you. And so do you. It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk? It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves. I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be. Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context. I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all. It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum. The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever. You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in. I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out. And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse. Most of the studies about what counts as political violence are, it would not be shocking to find out, hopeless. KwarK might not believe this either, but if this was a right-wing forum full of people cheering on the murder of some political figure we didn't like I would object to that too. And at least for me it's not just right-wing grievance. If you will recall I was also alarmed by the high praise heaped on Mangione, and I have no idea about the politics of the CEO. Taking a consistent stance that murder is bad is not hard (though many still fail apparently) and is not just grievance. That isn’t my point though. My point is that the American right has been actively poisonous and hateful, and indulged in being so for a considerable length of time, and this is what you get. For public figures who actively contributed to this state of affairs, demanding respect for Charlie Kirk is preposterous. In a general, greater good sense I think this kind of gloating and ghoulishness is a bad thing. But I’m not going to be lectured on it by ghouls, they can fuck right off. I’ve bemoaned hateful, divisive rhetoric as long as I’ve been politically conscious, and it’s all this current trend towards right wing populism brings to the table. They can’t stoke this environment and then demand respect when it’s one of theirs, this isn’t how it remotely works. Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people.
I'm glad you brought up Mangione in your last point because that's part of what makes me suspicious. That guy didn't advocate for anything and didn't do anything...except we know that the left does believe he did do something. And they viewed that as execution worthy, and a distressingly few people we willing to say anything. So it's a good example not just to defend my own consistency but because also (assuming good faith here) it could demonstrate some sort of intellectually defensible position instead of a bloodlust.
Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people.
Like I'm sorry, but I'm not sure even disagreements about those things are considered safe by a large number of people on that side. e.g. not wanting to be taxed more is viewed as selfish hatred of those less well off. If I may be less chartable I suspect Kirk could have been said things in the nicest, least offensive way and they would still say he deserved it. To be perfectly frank I think there are people out there who want something and will find a reason afterwards. And apparently not many people are interested in stopping them. Again, you don't have to like Kirk, or the CEO. That's kind of a big part of the whole point.
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Right-wing guy shoots another right-wing guy in a country where the vast majority of political violence comes from right-wingers, four years after the right-wing president that told Second Amendment folk to take their country back was acquitted by the U.S. Senate of fomenting an insurrection after losing an election. Who's fault is it?
That's right, the left's.
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Let's pretend both shooters were right-wing. I'll try to help you out again. Who here is cheering on the murder of people they don't like? oh, that's right...
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Northern Ireland25630 Posts
On September 16 2025 10:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 10:26 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 10:12 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 10:06 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 01:29 Razyda wrote:On September 16 2025 00:40 Jankisa wrote:
[quote]
Again, you are doing your favorite thing, putting words in people's mouths.
I don't, and have never said he deserved to be murdered.
I, unlike him, am very much against any kind of executions (yes, including Trump, Miller, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.) because it is my strong belief that killing someone makes the person and the system that commit this, no matter how just worse for it.
I don't even think CK should have been silenced or jailed, I think he was expressing his opinions which is his right, even tho I believe that those opinions and especially the way he espoused them and in support of what made him a huge piece of shit.
None of that means that him being assassinated makes pointing these things out wrong, in poor taste or whatever moniker you guys want to assign to it. Fair point, my last sentence was more of saying what I think, rather than reference to your post. For what is worth I dont think of him as PoS either. On September 16 2025 00:19 WombaT wrote:
I will note that any time there’s talk about trying to regulate social media so it’s not a hate-filled, misinformational cesspit, be it from the left or from those of a more centrist persuasion, there’s gigantic pushback on the very idea itself. People should be free to be be arseholes if they want to be arseholes.
Then if folks from the left are complete arseholes that advocacy seems to just dissipate entirely. Here comes the pearl clutching!
Pick a lane like.
I’ll also add that there’s a world of difference between advocating for violence, and being ok with someone snuffing it. It’s completely possible to not wish x individual gets assassinated, but think their passing is for the greater benefit of society. Or, have sympathy with their nearest and dearest, while still thinking that person, being a net negative to society being gone is a net win. These aren’t conflicting things.
Rush Limbaugh who died after a lifetime of hate (albeit, mild by 2025 standards), of lung cancer, after taking money from tobacco companies and spreading bullshit on their behalf? I can’t laugh at that either?
Fucking snowflakes man… Oh please Wombat it is not about it and you know it. People absolutely have the right to celebrate someone getting murdered, as it happens I also have the right to say what I think about it. He believed in god, how am i supposed to know what else he believed? You have US in your profile, you could have gone and ask him that. Not it wasnt nazi position like wtf you talking about. Even in wikipedia article you linked: "Leading Nazis like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann, and Joseph Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianise Germany" Your Iran question have nothing to do with what I said and I dont know if what I said reflect conservatives position, it was my own musings on the topic. Dude birth rates are not conspiracy theory, also I dare say that given unlimited time everyone will end up mixed race and there is nothing wrong with that. On September 15 2025 23:24 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
My good sir, there is one correct answer and one correct answer only. You should literally never force any rape victim to carry. Ever. And especially not your own daughter.
"I honestly don't know" tells me either one of two things: you refuse to think about it, in which case I advise you to start thinking now and come to the correct conclusion quickly. Or it tells me you are in fact willing to force your own daughter to carry. Just willingness alone, in my book, strictly disqualifies you from fatherhood. Unfortunately I don't have a say in that, but I hope you'll never be in a position to make such a decision because clearly you're willing to make a very evil choice.
And you have the gall to call anybody monsters? You can't be serious. This is pure comedy, I will respond in kind. You should never force women to abortion, it is disgusting that you think you have the right to do so. On September 15 2025 23:26 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, I didn't fall to the ground in tears. Cry me a river. Kirk didn't deserve death, but he did deserve to be shut up for good one way or another, other than through death. Unfortunately he chose not to shut up and someone else decided for him that his time on this planet was over.
You are not in a position to judge me. So the only thing which prevents you from saving the US is 8th amendment. Why I am not surprised. And of course I am in position to judge you, everyone you ever met is making judgements about you. And so do you. It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk? It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves. I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be. Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context. I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all. It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum. The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever. You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in. I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out. And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse. Most of the studies about what counts as political violence are, it would not be shocking to find out, hopeless. KwarK might not believe this either, but if this was a right-wing forum full of people cheering on the murder of some political figure we didn't like I would object to that too. And at least for me it's not just right-wing grievance. If you will recall I was also alarmed by the high praise heaped on Mangione, and I have no idea about the politics of the CEO. Taking a consistent stance that murder is bad is not hard (though many still fail apparently) and is not just grievance. That isn’t my point though. My point is that the American right has been actively poisonous and hateful, and indulged in being so for a considerable length of time, and this is what you get. For public figures who actively contributed to this state of affairs, demanding respect for Charlie Kirk is preposterous. In a general, greater good sense I think this kind of gloating and ghoulishness is a bad thing. But I’m not going to be lectured on it by ghouls, they can fuck right off. I’ve bemoaned hateful, divisive rhetoric as long as I’ve been politically conscious, and it’s all this current trend towards right wing populism brings to the table. They can’t stoke this environment and then demand respect when it’s one of theirs, this isn’t how it remotely works. Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people. I'm glad you brought up Mangione in your last point because that's part of what makes me suspicious. That guy didn't advocate for anything and didn't do anything...except we know that the left does believe he did do something. And they viewed that as execution worthy, and a distressingly few people we willing to say anything. So it's a good example not just to defend my own consistency but because also (assuming good faith here) it could demonstrate some sort of intellectually defensible position instead of a bloodlust. Show nested quote +Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people. Like I'm sorry, but I'm not sure even disagreements about those things are considered safe by a large number of people on that side. e.g. not wanting to be taxed more is viewed as selfish hatred of those less well off. If I may be less chartable I suspect Kirk could have been said things in the nicest, least offensive way and they would still say he deserved it. To be perfectly frank I think there are people out there who want something and will find a reason afterwards. And apparently not many people are interested in stopping them. Again, you don't have to like Kirk, or the CEO. That's kind of a big part of the whole point.
I’m not talking about Kirk, I’m talking about a decade+ of absolute bile being actively encouraged and enabled by the right. And an insurrection attempt just handwaved away, and I mean innumerable other things besides.
Where we are now is the natural consequence of that, good job guys! Well fucking done. Now the left is getting more violent too, yay! Really good course of action…
In the abstract, yes I think a return to general decency would be nice. I’m not going to heed any call from right wing political figures to do so because it’s brazenly hypocritical. It’s like Stormy Daniels going on a campaign for sexual abstinence
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On September 16 2025 10:06 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:15 KwarK wrote:
The left dominate the media? Really? We’re trying that again? Yes they are. If you want to do litmus test: every single media which referred to BLM riots as peaceful protests is left leaning. It is really that simple. Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:40 Hat Trick of Today wrote:On September 16 2025 09:15 KwarK wrote:
The left dominate the media? Really? We’re trying that again? There’s a reason why there has never been a good retort to the failing ratings garbage Trump used to spout because there’s a lot of truth in there. Did you know Gutfield is the highest rating late night show in America? Like literally the only “big” left wing political commentator is Hasan Piker. Compared to how many right wing political commentators and podcasts? It does say a lot that this dude is the only "big" left leaning commentator. Anyone not left spilling shit this dude does would be banned instantly. Also how the f...k you call it media? People listen to who they want. Oh no, turns out that people are not interested in bushtit spreading from MSM, or left leaning streamers. Dude advocates socialism, from multimillion dollar house, very on brand for socialism.
What are you even trying to say here. I haven’t even said any value judgements about Hasan Piker and yet you’re foaming in the mouth arguing about what? That Hasan Piker is a bad man?
Also, you do know you’re allowed to be wealthy under a socialist world. There’s a lot of valid criticisms you can hurl at Hasan but that’s actually the most pathetic criticism out of all of them because it’s a basically a strawman.
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On September 16 2025 10:06 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:15 KwarK wrote:
The left dominate the media? Really? We’re trying that again? Yes they are. If you want to do litmus test: every single media which referred to BLM riots as peaceful protests is left leaning. It is really that simple.
93%* of BLM protests were peaceful, so yes, they were broadly peaceful. Of course, the 7% that contained some violence ("riots") received disproportionately high media coverage, so it's unsurprising that some people make the mistake of thinking that BLM was generally violent.
* https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/
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On September 16 2025 11:07 Introvert wrote:
Let's pretend both shooters were right-wing. I'll try to help you out again. Who here is cheering on the murder of people they don't like? oh, that's right...
No pretending necessary. And it's the right-wing, thanks for asking. Hence "Hang Mike Pence" at the January 6 insurrection.
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On September 16 2025 11:17 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 10:40 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 10:26 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 10:12 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 10:06 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 09:08 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 08:22 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 07:25 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 05:00 WombaT wrote:On September 16 2025 01:29 Razyda wrote:
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Fair point, my last sentence was more of saying what I think, rather than reference to your post. For what is worth I dont think of him as PoS either.
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Oh please Wombat it is not about it and you know it. People absolutely have the right to celebrate someone getting murdered, as it happens I also have the right to say what I think about it.
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He believed in god, how am i supposed to know what else he believed? You have US in your profile, you could have gone and ask him that.
Not it wasnt nazi position like wtf you talking about. Even in wikipedia article you linked:
"Leading Nazis like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Martin Bormann, and Joseph Goebbels, backed by Hitler, were hostile to Christianity and ultimately planned to de-Christianise Germany"
Your Iran question have nothing to do with what I said and I dont know if what I said reflect conservatives position, it was my own musings on the topic.
Dude birth rates are not conspiracy theory, also I dare say that given unlimited time everyone will end up mixed race and there is nothing wrong with that.
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This is pure comedy, I will respond in kind. You should never force women to abortion, it is disgusting that you think you have the right to do so.
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So the only thing which prevents you from saving the US is 8th amendment. Why I am not surprised.
And of course I am in position to judge you, everyone you ever met is making judgements about you. And so do you.
It absolutely is about that. Plenty of handwaving, excuses and gaslighting attempts at all sorts of hateful shit being thrown about, in high volume, and all over the place, for fucking years but let’s all grab hands together and sing Kumbayah over Charlie Kirk? It’s a complete nonsense, a joke, a complete fucking farce of a request, treated with the derision it deserves. I personally find some of it steps into ghoulish territory, but I sure as fuck aren’t going to listen to the right’s demands for propriety when it suits them. Asking people not to shout for joy over murder is not just a demand for "propriety". This is part of what is rediculous about all this. Multiple recent assassination attempts over recent years and the left will never do the inward looking they are always asking the right for. It's anti-free speech to kill people for their political beliefs. This ghoulishness, to use your word, that we are seeing right now is unprecedented and does it fact cross a line. No one cheered when the MN legislators were shot (i use that example even though that guy seems to have had his own reasons). No one cheered when there was a plot found to kidnap the governor of MI. No one is asking you to feel bad for Kirk. You tried to straddle this line with the healthcare CEO too. Political assassination is bad, people should feel shame for celebrating, and as a society we should do this things that try to discourage it and keep it under control. It’s not remotely unprecedented, merely amplified amidst the push to canonise Mr Kirk. You may not have seen the rejoicing and the memes for other atrocious events, but there was plenty of it for all sorts. As I alluded to in earlier posts I mean, did Kyle Rittenhouse need to get a wee podcast tour? Is that not somewhat insensitive and inflammatory? If that isn’t, is it not ghoulish in the extreme that somebody paid 140,000 dollars for the weapon that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin with? Luigi is a bit of an outlier, that rejoicing was a relatively rare instance of quite a bipartisan outpouring, although it did skew a bit left it wasn’t exclusively from there. I made the point earlier that the contrast with the UK is pretty fucking stark. When Jo Cox (Labour), and David Amess (Conservative) were assassinated, the political parties, the media across the spectrum behaved pretty bloody impeccably in condemning it, and also not further inflaming things. Of course, there will always be exceptions, but there wasn’t much mockery either. Part of the reason for that is, our Conservative Party are merely rather shite if you’re of my political persuasion. But I could have a beer with a Tory and we’d argue about like, the role and scope of the state and agree to disagree. Some of this GOP, in this current incarnation? Nope, they’re actively divisive hatemongers, I’ll pass. What’s equally irritating is this phenomenon isn’t contained to the States, folks are actively working to export it. Hell Elon Musk just appeared via videolink at a far right rally here saying our Parliament should be dissolved. Because, reasons I guess. To paraphrase Kwark, it’s not the world I wanted, but it’s the world I’ve got. If you (not you personally) actively work to create a poisonous, divisive environment, you can’t pull a surprised Pikachu when that’s what you get. In a country full of fucking guns especially. The left is indeed getting more violent, or tolerant of it too, but one has to question why that is happening in this epoch, and isn’t really mirrored in similar nations to the US. There are always crazy people but it didn't get amplified, no one needed to go around denouncing it because thr vast majority of people on the other side don't approve. Pretending like this is just a mirror reaction is obviously wrong and evasive. How many university professors, for example, were hoping that Whitmer was abducted and killed? Anyone? I remember in the old days the left always was chiding the right for their "rhetoric" and now that over the last 10 years more Republicans are being attacked somehow there's no concern about throwing the word "fascist" around. I think even you can see that your references to Rittenhouse and Martin are big stretches. But at least there we can argue about actions. Was Rittenhouse defending himself? Was Zimmerman? And now we arent even talking about assassination of politicians anymore, but public figures. The pass the left gets (or more accurately gives themselves, given their media dominance) is more and more grating it seems to me. On the one hand the left is caught between "it's good" and "you made us do it." And finally, any crackpot of social media cheering a state legislator getting shot, or bombing an abortion clinic i and almost everyone on my side can condemn. Too much of the left cannot and will not do the same in reverse. There is no equivalence in action, it's just that the left has convinced themselves there doesn't actually need to be. Most trackers of political violence tend to find it trends towards right wing ideologies, with a sizeable but lesser component of left wing violence. That I’ve ever seen anyway in the US context. I don’t see how my references to Rittenhouse or Zimmerman are stretches at all. It’s preposterous to moan about how ghoulish it is that people are happy Charlie Kirk is dead, if Kyle Rittenhouse is lauded as a hero and paraded across conservative media, and somebody bought the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin for a six figure sum. The pearl clutching is complete bullshit, and I don’t buy it whatsoever. You yourself seem a decent fellow, I’m not talking about you but sizeable chunks of the wider American right are absolutely repugnant, and pretty unapologetic about it People will respond in kind. Again to paraphrase Kwark it’s not the world I want, but it’s the world we’re living in. I’d have personally preferred if the right didn’t go full deplorable. Clinton was right her only problem was in voicing it. But they did, and while it’s my problem, it’s not my problem to solve, the right can figure that out. And yes, the left is getting worse also, but it’s an escalatory thing. We’re not plagued with left wing violence over here because we’re not plagued with lunatic right wing fucktards to nearly the same degree, things broadly remain within the remit of regular political discourse. Most of the studies about what counts as political violence are, it would not be shocking to find out, hopeless. KwarK might not believe this either, but if this was a right-wing forum full of people cheering on the murder of some political figure we didn't like I would object to that too. And at least for me it's not just right-wing grievance. If you will recall I was also alarmed by the high praise heaped on Mangione, and I have no idea about the politics of the CEO. Taking a consistent stance that murder is bad is not hard (though many still fail apparently) and is not just grievance. That isn’t my point though. My point is that the American right has been actively poisonous and hateful, and indulged in being so for a considerable length of time, and this is what you get. For public figures who actively contributed to this state of affairs, demanding respect for Charlie Kirk is preposterous. In a general, greater good sense I think this kind of gloating and ghoulishness is a bad thing. But I’m not going to be lectured on it by ghouls, they can fuck right off. I’ve bemoaned hateful, divisive rhetoric as long as I’ve been politically conscious, and it’s all this current trend towards right wing populism brings to the table. They can’t stoke this environment and then demand respect when it’s one of theirs, this isn’t how it remotely works. Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people. I'm glad you brought up Mangione in your last point because that's part of what makes me suspicious. That guy didn't advocate for anything and didn't do anything...except we know that the left does believe he did do something. And they viewed that as execution worthy, and a distressingly few people we willing to say anything. So it's a good example not just to defend my own consistency but because also (assuming good faith here) it could demonstrate some sort of intellectually defensible position instead of a bloodlust. Go back to having disagreements on taxation, or the role of the state or whatever then maybe that’s restored. Rather than immigrants, trans people, Marxists or whatever being despisable enemies of the people. Like I'm sorry, but I'm not sure even disagreements about those things are considered safe by a large number of people on that side. e.g. not wanting to be taxed more is viewed as selfish hatred of those less well off. If I may be less chartable I suspect Kirk could have been said things in the nicest, least offensive way and they would still say he deserved it. To be perfectly frank I think there are people out there who want something and will find a reason afterwards. And apparently not many people are interested in stopping them. Again, you don't have to like Kirk, or the CEO. That's kind of a big part of the whole point. I’m not talking about Kirk, I’m talking about a decade+ of absolute bile being actively encouraged and enabled by the right. And an insurrection attempt just handwaved away, and I mean innumerable other things besides. Where we are now is the natural consequence of that, good job guys! Well fucking done. Now the left is getting more violent too, yay! Really good course of action… In the abstract, yes I think a return to general decency would be nice. I’m not going to heed any call from right wing political figures to do so because it’s brazenly hypocritical. It’s like Stormy Daniels going on a campaign for sexual abstinence
Exactly. It is the horribly hypocritical onesidedness of this fake rightwing outrage that people rightfully object to.
Also, the fact that if you give them decency, they just laugh in your face and go even more indecent the next time things are the other way around, and if you remind them of how you were decent when it was their turn, they just go "lol idiot" if they are honest, or "that was completely different!" if they are dishonest.
It is not like we haven't lived that experience 50 times over in the last decade.
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Reading this has taught me that no one can convince one another :p. If we're still fighting even on this tiny forum the world is doom'd. Can't even unify against a single cause for greater happiness
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Introvert must've forgotten that the FBI determined that most domestic terrorism in the US is committed by right-wing groups.
I also really liked the idea that the left dominate the media, that gave me a good laugh.
Being so unrooted from reality must be nice.
Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
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On September 16 2025 10:02 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 09:55 LightSpectra wrote:On September 16 2025 09:51 Introvert wrote:On September 16 2025 09:18 LightSpectra wrote:
You are 100% in an echo chamber if you didn't see or hear anyone cheering for violence against Democrats. It's not debatable. Even if we assumed that was true for the sake of argument it doesn't stop you saying that gleeful celebration is bad no matter who does it. This really is the bare, basement level expectation. Instead we just get different versions of "they made me do it" or "they started it!" And we don't have to broaden, we can read it here. You could post this exact paragraph in response to how Charlie Kirk talked about George Floyd. Saying negative things about someone after they die is not the same, and that's not what I'm criticizing. And it's still deflection, because I have very intentionally avoided being dragged into parsing his words, considering that, again, we can't even yet meet the bare minimum requirements.
So, let me be the one to parse this instead?
Okay: CK was a despicable human being. He didn't deserve to die, but he brought it on himself with his hate-mongering.
Not okay: CK was a despicable human being. If anyone deserved to die, it was him for his hate-mongering.
I'm sorry if I don't see much difference.
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On September 16 2025 11:41 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2025 11:07 Introvert wrote:
Let's pretend both shooters were right-wing. I'll try to help you out again. Who here is cheering on the murder of people they don't like? oh, that's right... No pretending necessary. And it's the right-wing, thanks for asking. Hence "Hang Mike Pence" at the January 6 insurrection.
Current reports are that Robinson was in a romantic relationship with his transgender roommate.
If true, the theory that he is an extreme right-wing Nick Fuentes follower who shot Kirk for being too moderate is quite unlikely.
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United States42960 Posts
Raised by a family of registered Republicans in Utah and was apolitical until recently. Didn’t vote in the most recent election. Seems like this is the first political act he took. I will watch his career with great interest.
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EPT
