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KwarK
United States43255 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: And even more closely related: Charlie Kirk's racism against black people is well-documented, despite him having a black friend (Candace Owens). Candace Owens would be devastated if she ever learned she was black. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1882 Posts
On September 17 2025 02:14 Luolis wrote: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/utah-governor-shares-details-charlie-kirk-assassination-investigation-rcna231022 I feel like at this stage we kinda have to trust the reporting we get, no? I'm not trying to belabor the point, but NBC is reporting that the governor of Utah said this, it hasn't been confirmed yet. I'm still waiting to hear an independent journalist investigate this and say "yeah it's right" before I can say it's "confirmed". On September 17 2025 02:16 KwarK wrote: Candace Owens would be devastated if she ever learned she was black. Apropos to nothing, anyone remember that time a black Neo-Nazi shot up a school and said "Candace Owens has influenced me above all each time she spoke"? | ||
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Vivax
22089 Posts
Vances declared battle against cultural marxism. The martyr mentality and norse admiration. Supporters of the great replacement theory. Seeing themselves as crusaders of christianity. Ideology of national supremacy. Reminds me of the guy who killed hundreds in Norway. Very reassuring to know who‘s in charge here. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia917 Posts
After that, I take it that most of the subsequent maniacs from this genre of shooters, given that they are trolls and edge lords above all could have been saying this kind of shit deliberately, as a troll. Regardless of that, if you go out of your way to kill Muslims and cite hateful right wing rhetoric, including Breivik, who is also worshiped by ghouls like the guru behind JD Vance's politics Curtis Yarvin it's pretty clear that you are a right wing maniac. Same for the black neo-Nazi LS mentioned. Same as many other right wing mass murderers over the past 10 years. For now, since this guy didn't leave a manifesto, or maybe he did but it doesn't fit the narrative so it's not coming out, we can only speculate. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3241 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:52 Jankisa wrote: He, being the dumb and incompetent buffoon that he is, fucked his first term up enough that "normal" Americans coalesced around Biden to get him out for 4 years, but accepting another black, this time also female person was a line too far, and now we have fascism. Yey. And now we have these guys explaining to us how anyone pointing this shit out, and specifically pointing out that Charlie Kirk was a major force behind pushing Trump and his racist and regressive brand of politics is a terrible person and the real problem. Nah, the problem is the wannabe fascist dictator giving Hitler like speeches from the White House while subbing in on a podcast threatening to go after their political opponents, and no amount of gaslighting will change those facts. Puzzling phenomenon really. Some people realized yeah this is not it, but then went back on that. Hopefully they snap out of it again, but how can you be so clueless in the second attempt. Fool me twice you ain't folling me again, no? And some people never woke up from it and will just loudly defend him/them while spouting 5 different contradictions a minute. Fascinating | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26075 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:04 oBlade wrote: I find it VERY easy to understand why a particularly loathsome and insecure murderer would call someone "gay" who they think will be homophobic, i.e. the supposed anti-LGBTQ police system collecting evidence to prosecute the killing of the supposed anti-LGBTQ Satan that they shot. That's absolutely the same needle as every Mark Twain who thinks it's funny to say maybe every other Republican is secretly gay. Do you believe there is police use of force that isn't brutality? Otherwise there's no reason for me to go through the methods of these hundreds of sources that I've checked about 10 so far and many are either to dead twitter links, videos that don't show the lead-up, with no context (ex. after disperse and go home orders), or filings of alleged police brutality that went nowhere. Basically, the more police have to deal with, in general, the more collateral brutality you will get. If you don't want to get tear gassed or pepper sprayed, the easiest way is don't assemble with rioters. As I’ve said innumerable times, you don’t have to police disturbances like this. Unless it’s an emergent event they can’t get to, the PSNI’s riot squad are best in class here, they’ve plenty of practice after all. They contain riots until they die out, which requires them to sit there and take it for a bit. Sucks for the police, but it starves out most riots so they don’t escalate. American police do not do this. They wade in and pepper spray folks at the slightest provocation, smack some people around a bit. That’s how they operate. It’s not how you police these things, it is throwing petrol on an existing fire. You’ve two options, and only two options. 1. Containment until it dissipates 2. Crushing the disturbance with overwhelming force That’s your lot. I prefer option 1 personally. If you start to escalate the force employed, but fall short of doing option 2, all that does is turn a bad situation into a completely shit situation. The antagonistic nature of US law enforcement across the board, makes them incredibly ill-suited to policing riots. Us Northern Irish have few institutions or individuals that can conceivably be the best in the world in any field, but we probably do in riot policing. And American law enforcement basically does the diametric opposite of many of our practices in this domain. | ||
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Vivax
22089 Posts
Maybe the guy just hated politicians in general because his entire family did and CK was the best available option for him when he thought that murdering someone would be a cure to his depression. Or maybe he just wanted to be famous. He‘s not likely to be very differentiated in his views at that age. Or several other options. Will it have consequences for arms policy in the US ? Nope. A good guy with a gun could have stopped him. That‘s how it works there. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26075 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:09 Doublemint wrote: now that is sickening. Stephen Miller Vows to JD Vance He Will ‘Dismantle’ Left-Wing Orgs ‘Promoting Violence’ to Honor Charlie Kirk - on the Charlie Kirk show being hosted by VP Vance (ab)using a dead man's platform for your own twisted little games, harvesting the sympathies and trying to point the anger somewhere convenient. funny how they don't mention social media and its problems. while streaming from hate spreading right wing platform Rumble. now that is dancing on CK's grave while pointing fingers how others are undignified. then again he was a state propagandist. backing off from Epstein at Trump's direction. he might have been totally fine with them using him like that for their goals, who knows. apart from solving nothing this will foment actual division and hate. but that's their MO and the goal, little piggies like to play in the dirt. incidentally we had a funny thing occur here in my local neck of the woods, a conservative mayor unilaterally "honored" Kirk by flying a black flag at half-mast. controversy and inconvenient questions like WHO? and WHY? followed. usually black flags being flown is reserved for important locals/dignitaries and local officials dying. but that's a nice example of how social media spreads the brain rot very efficiently. and makes US talking points international, while also looping back to the US once it catches on. but the question really is - why in the ever loving fuck would be care in the EU about Kirk, let alone Austria? I tell you why, there are very strong bonds and relations between the right internationally. and their backers. and who is controlling the medium, will control the message. ironically this conservative/right wing alliance is a way more robust one than an "international left" could have ever dared to dream back when actual socialism was a thing in the last century. This is what Fascism looks like. It’s a Reichstag fire event. People burying their heads in the sand to deny this are either bullshitting me, or bullshitting themselves. It’s that simple really. It really is, there’s no point dancing around it. If Miller, who shares my surname, alas he spelt it the worse way, or his ilk had this energy in a more general sense, to try and wrest things back from various extremes, that’s one thing. They are not doing that, remotely. They hand wave right wing political violence, and are trying to stoke fears against the left as justification for clamping down on stuff they’re ideologically opposed to. If it quacks like a duck, is obviously some kind of semi-aquatic bird, resembles the Wikipedia entry for a duck, it’s a fucking duck. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1086 Posts
The media at large is sanewashing Trump administration...despite they are obviously insincere. Trump is an idiot, Colonel Kegstand is an Idiot, RFK is an idiot, Patel is an Idiot, Miller is an Idiot that plays with dolls, Noem is an idiot that shoots puppies. But they roles in the news cycle are "important", no matter how idiotic the idiot is. | ||
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GoShox
United States1842 Posts
The prosecutor did release a lot more including a long text exchange with the suspect's roommate and romantic partner. The romantic partner clearly had no idea about this - Tyler texted her "Drop what you're doing right now and look under my keyboard" where she found a note admitting that he had killed Charlie Kirk. They then shared a long text exchange where Tyler admitted to it that I'm sure will be released in print somewhere soon. Definitely don't see how this is a groyper thing anymore but the article I linked above really goes to show that, unless he was really active in a bunch of secret radical groups (which may very well be found soon), he was largely pretty apolitical. I'm not comparing the murders themselves but it's eerily similar to Luigi who was pretty down the middle in his ideology (I remember reading stuff stating he found good points from both conservatives and liberals) and seemed like a very normal guy. Maybe my expectations were unrealistic. I expected there to be clear evidence that this dude was involved in extreme groups, either far-left or far-right, but man so far he just seems like a normal dude | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28712 Posts
On September 17 2025 02:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Are they all using the exact same single person as their source (Utah's Republican governor Spencer Cox), or are there other sources corroborating what this one person is saying? The axios link I gave earlier is behind a paywall, but it opens with this paragraph (not paywalled): Authorities are investigating whether Tyler Robinson, suspected of killing Charlie Kirk, believed Kirk's views on gender identity were "hateful" to people like Robinson's transgender roommate, six sources familiar with the case tell Axios. I think Kwark's 'it's a jodie foster thing' seems most likely tbh - Robinson probably thought he'd impress his gf through killing Kirk because Kirk was spreading hate against transgender people. Then his partner actually thinks it was a horrible thing to do, so Robinson being motivated by this is in no way an indictment towards trans people, if anything it shows the importance of treating them with respect because they, like other human beings, are human beings with feelings and friends and relationships and the hate they experience is bound to make others hateful too, as expressed feelings have a tendency to reciprocate in a way. There's no indication that Robinson was part of some leftist network or that he was particularly political, period, but the 'his roommate whom he was romantically involved with was transgender' seems to have some legs, and what more, it seems like a totally plausible reason why someone - presumably a bit mentally unstable - could do what he did. | ||
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KwarK
United States43255 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28712 Posts
 I liked her a lot in true detective, which was recent, anyway. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45070 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:43 Liquid`Drone wrote: The axios link I gave earlier is behind a paywall, but it opens with this paragraph (not paywalled): Yeah I was able to read that part, but that's not the same thing as the original claim the governor made. Six sources confirming that authorities are investigating whether or not TR believed Kirk's views on gender identity were hateful =/= TR was dating his trans roommate. (Plenty of people, including myself, believe that Kirk's views on gender identity were hateful, but that's not the same thing as saying we're dating anyone in the queer community.) I think Kwark's 'it's a jodie foster thing' seems most likely tbh - Robinson probably thought he'd impress his gf through killing Kirk because Kirk was spreading hate against transgender people. Then his partner actually thinks it was a horrible thing to do, so Robinson being motivated by this is in no way an indictment towards trans people, if anything it shows the importance of treating them with respect because they, like other human beings, are human beings with feelings and friends and relationships and the hate they experience is bound to make others hateful too, as expressed feelings have a tendency to reciprocate in a way. There's no indication that Robinson was part of some leftist network or that he was particularly political, period, but the 'his roommate whom he was romantically involved with was transgender' seems to have some legs, and what more, it seems like a totally plausible reason why someone - presumably a bit mentally unstable - could do what he did. Yeah that could very well be the case. People do a lot of stupid things when they want to impress other people, even if they're not currently dating. I agree that it doesn't sound like there were evil Democratic transgender puppetmasters pulling the strings on this assassination. I can't imagine that Republicans will walk back their rhetoric though. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23486 Posts
I don't know that enough of the US populace gives enough of a shit for an actual civil war. I imagine more of a general "balkanization" with some conflicts internally (from oppressed groups) and between regions over resources and such. | ||
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Billyboy
1274 Posts
Also, to everyone who thinks he couldn't possibly be a fan and shoot Kirk (it is looking like he's not) you are dead wrong. When it comes to celebrity shooting it is common for the person to be a super fan. John Lennon's killer was the president of his fan club and more recently the singer Christina Grimmie was killed by a super fan who was in love with her. People don't only kill people they hate, especially when celebrity is involved. | ||
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Razyda
891 Posts
On September 17 2025 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote: When people think "Civil War", are they basically imagining the far-right going to war to keep the West Coast in the Union, rural vs urban wars around the country, North vs South, or what? I don't know that enough of the US populace gives enough of a shit for an actual civil war. I imagine more of a general "balkanization" with some conflicts internally (from oppressed groups) and between regions over resources and such. See you dont have single culture any more (like western/US culture) you have liberal culture and conservative culture and 2 cultures cant coexist within the same borders. One have to take over. | ||
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Vivax
22089 Posts
On September 17 2025 09:50 Razyda wrote: See you dont have single culture any more (like western/US culture) you have liberal culture and conservative culture and 2 cultures cant coexist within the same borders. One have to take over. No nation has a single culture except maybe China and other Asian nations. Western culture doesn‘t even exist. It‘s too fractured for that. Which is why you can have different experiences in Italy, the UK, France, US etc. In terms of anthropology, when it has its own language, it‘s something of their own. The point is for them to be able to coexist because it‘d be pretty boring if we only had one. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2604 Posts
On September 17 2025 09:50 Razyda wrote: See you dont have single culture any more (like western/US culture) you have liberal culture and conservative culture and 2 cultures cant coexist within the same borders. One have to take over. That's such a hard read to make not on the ground. Even here, there are more people that don't participate in USPOL than do, so surely there's more space for 'Just american people culture'. I know the times I've been in the US i haven't been forced to identify myself as a political alignment, there was just normal mixed bag american culture. Granted, I'm not in the US currently, but I'd still expect that liberal and conservative cultures aren't the primary identity of most folk, so suggesting that only one of those two can win seems... dumb? | ||
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Razyda
891 Posts
On September 17 2025 10:23 Vivax wrote: No nation has a single culture except maybe China and other Asian nations. Western culture doesn‘t even exist. It‘s too fractured for that. Which is why you can have different experiences in Italy, the UK, France, US etc. In terms of anthropology, when it has its own language, it‘s something of their own. The point is for them to be able to coexist because it‘d be pretty boring if we only had one. Of course they do. There is French culture, British culture, US culture. They are all different with different traditions, history even effing food. If you think different cultures can coexist within the same borders, then you are mistaken. Ask native Americans, ask St Bartholomew/ du Plessis how did that work out in France, check what papist is, or what happened in Granada. | ||
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