EPTOn September 16 2025 23:25 Luolis wrote:
I do agree that if the governor says it, it's prolly likely the roommate is trans.
I do agree that if the governor says it, it's prolly likely the roommate is trans.
Uhm, why?
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5234
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Velr
Switzerland10763 Posts
Uhm, why? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25636 Posts
On September 16 2025 17:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: Like Mohdoo was touching upon earlier, this is a situation where you can really see this, live battle over the truth happening. There's a bunch of unconfirmed stuff, but the main takeaway imo, is to have some patience and not draw conclusions. What we know so far and what seems to be confirmed by several different sources is; his parents were republican. He had a strong online presence. He had talked about how he disliked/hated Kirk because Kirk was spreading hate. He did not vote in the previous election and didn't have a known political affiliation. He probably had a romantic relationship with his roommate who was in the process of transitioning from male to female. I agree that the totality of this makes any groyper-affiliation-allegation unlikely. Then there are the messages on the casings. These are a bit harder to parse, because they're more open for interpretation. 1: notices bulge owo what's this - a meme, if it is political in any way it's more likely right wing because it mocks furries. 2: if you're reading this you're gay LMAO - same - just a meme, but if it's political then it's right wing 3: bella ciao - anti-fascist song; but also present in far cry 6, and also, for whatever reason, it's present in the 'groyper wars america first' spotify-playlist. 4: Hey fascist, catch - obviously sounds anti-fascist, but just as likely/more likely to be a helldivers 2 reference, especially because of 5: up arrow right arrow three downward arrows - which is how you summon a 500 kg bomb in that very same helldivers 2 game. (Again, this seems more likely than the 'three downwards arrows=anti fascist'-idea.) I'm honestly thinking that he was probably somewhat politically motivated and that his hatred for Kirk came from the left - not from a 'Kirk is too moderate'-perspective; but that more than anything, there's a sort of, nihilistic component to this. This is also a growing trend in the US; if we looked at mass shootings and assassinations up until like, 2022, a political motivation was much more likely to be found, and then, indeed, right-wingers were much more likely to be the culprits. Numbers from the ADL for 2013-2022 indicated that like 75% of murders from political violence in the US were done by right-wingers (and then white supremacists were responsible for 75% of that, again), while 20% was committed by islamic terrorists, and only 4% by leftist terrorists. But looking at 2024, there seems to be a new trend : ISD’s analysis of violent attacks and foiled attack plots linked to extremism in 2024 identified several trends related to biographical characteristics of suspects and perpetrators, motivations, tactics used, and targets selected. Most strikingly, the data showed that the deadliest incidents recorded were not tied to traditionally defined extremist ideologies. Instead, they were driven by a looser network of online subcultures that ISD refers to as “nihilistic violence.” Communities associated with nihilistic violence might echo the trappings and language of extremist and terrorist ideologies, their tactics and their use of social media. However their primary motivation for violence stems from a fundamental disregard for human life and a desire to see harms done to others. Individuals associated with communities that promote nihilistic worldviews accounted for two-thirds of all deaths and nearly two-thirds of all injuries in attacks and attack plots recorded by ISD in 2024. It is also of note that many perpetrators and suspects in the category were juveniles: historically not a characteristic demographic for extremist violence. Only a third of the recorded incidents were easily attributed to defined ideologies. While traditionally defined extremist movements continue to pose a significant threat to public safety, this analysis reflects an increased need to adjust frameworks and methods designed to counter ideologically motivated threats to account for this changing landscape. This also ties in with an article I read from NPR - and something GoShox posted some pages back; that there's a growing influence of online groups that actively desensitize young men who try to push them towards violence for the sake of violence. Now, it doesn't seem like Robinson himself was actively groomed in such a manner, but that this sort of, nihilistic attitude towards life and death - influenced by memes, tik tok feeds, discord communities, seems like a catalyst more than a particularly strongly defined political affiliation, that seems somewhat likely to me at the time being. I sure as fuck am not trusting the Bondi JDV etc explanation for this or anything else because they are absolute snakes, but I don't see the groyper-angle either, and even if he happens to be primarily motivated by some leftist political ideals then that still wouldn't make leftists more guilty of political violence than the right. This is an excellent post, I wholly agree that holding off until more is known is prudent. Humans are strange creatures, often contradictory. Reading too much into a handful of slogans, without really knowing said human and you may end up off base. Maybe they’re misdirection? Maybe the person is just making references draped with layers of irony. Maybe there’s an inner identity conflict and self-loathing of what they are at play. Could be those, or any number of other things. The trend towards a more nihilistic motivation for such acts, something I’ve also read about elsewhere, that’s a worrying development too. It speaks to an increasingly fractured and dysfunctional society, but equally to problems that are even harder to fix. If, via magic wand, the political discourse settles back into something much more civil, one would expect political violence to drop a bit naturally. If it’s nihilistic disconnection that’s motivating some folks, what’s the fix for that? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25636 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:27 Razyda wrote: It is because she got quickly condemned by both liberal and conservative folks. Ah right, I misunderstood your point | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia758 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:22 misirlou wrote: Kinda funny how quickly and abruptly the US turned from this beacon of hope and social progress when they elected Obama TWICE to then electing Trump (TWICE) and "undoing" all of the perceived progress and then some more (so like from a +5 to a -20 ) I personally subscribe to the theory that Obama, despite not really enacting most of his progressive "hope and change" agenda and being fairly centrist across the board simply triggered the right side of the US political spectrum by being black, and they couldn't really attack him for that because back in the good old days of early 2000 it was still kind of wrong to be openly racist. Then, they saw the avatar of American racism, corporatism, greed, brashness and tackiness come down the escalator starting his campaign with "Mexicans are rapists" and it was off to the races. Obviously I don't think these people are a majority of Americans, but there is enough of them and they are willing to make bedfellows with others that have other regressive views for them to take advantage of the Electoral college and a bunch of other anti democratic shit to get him in power. He, being the dumb and incompetent buffoon that he is, fucked his first term up enough that "normal" Americans coalesced around Biden to get him out for 4 years, but accepting another black, this time also female person was a line too far, and now we have fascism. Yey. And now we have these guys explaining to us how anyone pointing this shit out, and specifically pointing out that Charlie Kirk was a major force behind pushing Trump and his racist and regressive brand of politics is a terrible person and the real problem. Nah, the problem is the wannabe fascist dictator giving Hitler like speeches from the White House while subbing in on a podcast threatening to go after their political opponents, and no amount of gaslighting will change those facts. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11554 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:53 Liquid`Drone wrote: The reasonable thing is to wait and see and not draw conclusions, though. Sadly, at that point you have already lost. If you take time and wait when news moves at social media speed, the people who don't will just spam their narrative until it becomes the truth. It is so fucking annoying. | ||
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castleeMg
Canada765 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States1721 Posts
It is possible that the shooter was simply mentally unstable and not political, that is very true. But this still makes the "we should unleash a river of Democratic blood" response from the right equally as unhinged. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21787 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:58 castleeMg wrote:This whole weird argument that he was right wing but shot one of his own is absurd. Weren't both of Trumps assassination attempts conducted by right wing people?The notion that a right wing person will not attempt to kill right wing political figure is objectively false. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44596 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:58 castleeMg wrote: Well there seems to be a crazy amount of conflicting information about the shooter. The left is saying he was a republican and a fan of Charlie Kirk, the right is saying he was dating a trans person and hated Charlie Kirk. I think the obvious conclusion is that he was not a fan of Kirk. Who would kill someone while basically knowing that you’re throwing your own life away in the process if you did not vehemently hate them? The only other reason I can think of is for fame or notoriety and even then the shooter would likely target someone he hated. This whole weird argument that he was right wing but shot one of his own is absurd. I think the conclusion should be that he was clearly mentally unstable, he hated Kirk, likely because of his political beliefs and that it was a tragedy. Some of these comments that are veiled as “he had it coming” and “live by the sword, die by the sword” are pretty sick by some of you. I thought I would put my 2 cents in and I’m not going to reply further. Who is saying that the murderer of Charlie Kirk was a fan of Charlie Kirk? | ||
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castleeMg
Canada765 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:06 Gorsameth wrote: Weren't both of Trumps assassination attempts conducted by right wing people? The notion that a right wing person will not attempt to kill right wing political figure is objectively false. The guy had a trans roommate who admitted to being his partner and that they were in a secret romantic relationship. Apparently the roommate has been pretty cooperative with authorities, but how many people in relationships with trans people are right wing? It seems like there is information that he came from a very conservative Mormon family but his views did not align with theirs over the past few years. Also Thomas Crooks political affiliation was not definitively known, he donated to a left wing group in 2021 and voted republican only once in a primary in 2022. Other than that his political activity seems pretty neutral. Why are you falsely painting him as some sort of right wing guy? Also did you forget about Ryan Routh? That nutjob democrat that tried to kill Trump on a golf course? I guess you conveniently forgot about that. The fact that you guys are trying to say he was right wing but he killed Kirk because he didn’t like that he supported Israel is fucking insane. So the guy threw his whole life away and killed Kirk because of a few stand points that he didn’t agree with Kirk on? But overall he was right wing because he has photo of him dressed as a groyper in 2018? Hilarious mental gymnastics | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2718 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:35 castleeMg wrote: how many people in relationships with trans people are right wing? I'd say a small but non-zero number. This is similar to Trump's "I couldn't have raped her because she's ugly" defence. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1721 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:35 castleeMg wrote: The guy had a trans roommate who admitted to being his partner and that they were in a secret romantic relationship. Neither of these things have been confirmed by real journalists. Apparently the roommate has been pretty cooperative with authorities, but how many people in relationships with trans people are right wing? More than you'd imagine. The right-wing fetishizes trans people and it's not like there aren't any trans Republicans (e.g. Brianna Wu, Caitlyn Jenner) despite the obvious reasons it's not smart to vote that way. Edit: Upon double checking, Brianna Wu endorsed Trump but I can't find out if she formally registered as a Republican. So that may be incorrect. Also Thomas Crooks political affiliation was not definitively known, he donated to a left wing group in 2021 and voted republican only once in a primary in 2022. Other than that his political activity seems pretty neutral. Why are you falsely painting him as some sort of right wing guy? "After the shooting, the FBI uncovered a social media account "believed to be associated with the shooter" with about 700 comments from 2019 to 2020. A public statement from FBI deputy director Paul Abbate described Crooks' activity on social networking services as including comments that "appear to reflect antisemitic and anti-immigration themes" and "espouse political violence"." https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/trump-shooting-hearing-fbi-secret-service-assassination-attempt-senate/ Also did you forget about Ryan Routh? That nutjob democrat that tried to kill Trump on a golf course? I guess you conveniently forgot about that. Nobody's saying there's zero left-wing violence, it's just that nonpartisan sources indicate that the overwhelming majority of political violence is right-wing. e.g. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/9/13/2343349/-Justice-Dept-Study-Proves-Right-Wing-Extremists-Commit-Most-Violence-So-the-Trump-Regime-Removes-It Also, Ryan Routh was not a Democrat. He was anti-Trump but wanted a Nikki Haley/Vivek Ramaswamy ticket for the Republican primary in 2024. https://time.com/7021494/ryan-wesley-routh-trump-golf-course-shooter-politics-iran-ukraine/ The fact that you guys are trying to say he was right wing but he killed Kirk because he didn’t like that he supported Israel is fucking insane. So the guy threw his whole life away and killed Kirk because of a few stand points that he didn’t agree with Kirk on? But overall he was right wing because he has photo of him dressed as a groyper in 2018? Hilarious mental gymnastics Spend thirty minutes scrolling through groyper communities yourself and let me know how sane you find the lot of them. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25636 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:35 castleeMg wrote: The guy had a trans roommate who admitted to being his partner and that they were in a secret romantic relationship. Apparently the roommate has been pretty cooperative with authorities, but how many people in relationships with trans people are right wing? It seems like there is information that he came from a very conservative Mormon family but his views did not align with theirs over the past few years. Also Thomas Crooks political affiliation was not definitively known, he donated to a left wing group in 2021 and voted republican only once in a primary in 2022. Other than that his political activity seems pretty neutral. Why are you falsely painting him as some sort of right wing guy? Also did you forget about Ryan Routh? That nutjob democrat that tried to kill Trump on a golf course? I guess you conveniently forgot about that. The fact that you guys are trying to say he was right wing but he killed Kirk because he didn’t like that he supported Israel is fucking insane. So the guy threw his whole life away and killed Kirk because of a few stand points that he didn’t agree with Kirk on? But overall he was right wing because he has photo of him dressed as a groyper in 2018? Hilarious mental gymnastics Where are the gymnastics? I have a problem at this stage with any kind of definitive judgements being made, we simply don’t know. Could have been from a leftist angle, Kirk was too extreme right, could have been from the right, Kirk wasn’t extreme enough. Could have been something else entirely. In general I don’t think ‘it can’t be x because y’ is a great lens to assess such things through, especially at such an early stage. Especially given the perp may have been a few pence short of a shilling mentally as well. To reiterate, I think this across the board. I think it’s premature, and indeed a bit disingenuous at times to have folks off either political wing trying to claim the shooter for the other at such an early juncture. Would recommend reading some of Drone’s last few posts on the topic if you haven’t | ||
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castleeMg
Canada765 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:45 LightSpectra wrote: Neither of these things have been confirmed by real journalists. More than you'd imagine. The right-wing fetishizes trans people and it's not like there aren't any trans Republicans (e.g. Brianna Wu, Caitlyn Jenner) despite the obvious reasons it's not smart to vote that way. Edit: Upon double checking, Brianna Wu endorsed Trump but I can't find out if she formally registered as a Republican. So that may be incorrect. "After the shooting, the FBI uncovered a social media account "believed to be associated with the shooter" with about 700 comments from 2019 to 2020. A public statement from FBI deputy director Paul Abbate described Crooks' activity on social networking services as including comments that "appear to reflect antisemitic and anti-immigration themes" and "espouse political violence"." https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/trump-shooting-hearing-fbi-secret-service-assassination-attempt-senate/ Nobody's saying there's zero left-wing violence, it's just that nonpartisan sources indicate that the overwhelming majority of political violence is right-wing. e.g. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/9/13/2343349/-Justice-Dept-Study-Proves-Right-Wing-Extremists-Commit-Most-Violence-So-the-Trump-Regime-Removes-It Also, Ryan Routh was not a Democrat. He was anti-Trump but wanted a Nikki Haley/Vivek Ramaswamy ticket for the Republican primary in 2024. https://time.com/7021494/ryan-wesley-routh-trump-golf-course-shooter-politics-iran-ukraine/ Spend thirty minutes scrolling through groyper communities yourself and let me know how sane you find the lot of them. Seems like it’s well known at this point that Tyler wears dating a trans person according to what I googled. Many publications are coming out with articles on it. It seems like you’re assuming that Thomas Crooks was right wing based on “Crooks' activity on social networking services as including comments that "appear to reflect antisemitic and anti-immigration themes" and "espouse political violence".” You’re not basing it on any actual facts about his political history. You saying Ryan Routh was not a Democrat is laughable. The guy donated to left wing groups multiple times, he promoted Vivek in early 2024 and voted democrat the same year. He never once voted republican, why lie about this? It’s easy to see information. The other stuff idk much about tbh. Groypers are new to me, but I still would find it extremely weird if he was a groyper (only info on this is a photo from 2018) and killed Kirk. I can concede it could be possible. The right wing violence vs left wing violence, idk much about other than that article by some extreme left wing outlet. And the right being obsessed with transporn is some other weird thing I’ve never heard of. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia758 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:35 castleeMg wrote: The guy had a trans roommate who admitted to being his partner and that they were in a secret romantic relationship. Apparently the roommate has been pretty cooperative with authorities, but how many people in relationships with trans people are right wing? It seems like there is information that he came from a very conservative Mormon family but his views did not align with theirs over the past few years. Also Thomas Crooks political affiliation was not definitively known, he donated to a left wing group in 2021 and voted republican only once in a primary in 2022. Other than that his political activity seems pretty neutral. Why are you falsely painting him as some sort of right wing guy? Also did you forget about Ryan Routh? That nutjob democrat that tried to kill Trump on a golf course? I guess you conveniently forgot about that. The fact that you guys are trying to say he was right wing but he killed Kirk because he didn’t like that he supported Israel is fucking insane. So the guy threw his whole life away and killed Kirk because of a few stand points that he didn’t agree with Kirk on? But overall he was right wing because he has photo of him dressed as a groyper in 2018? Hilarious mental gymnastics You seem to be speaking about things with authority, things which weren't confirmed at all. The point about both potential Trump assassins being right wing is there because of the same implications that are now circulating around Kirk one, until information came out everyone on the Right was accusing them of being radical leftists, when in both cases they were people with mental health problems. Thomas Crooks was googling both Biden and Trump speech locations near him, he wanted to go out with a bang, the older guy was not a democrat but you are here regurgitating this BS like it's gospel. The most likely scenario about Kirk shooter is, just like those 2, that it was someone who got radicalized online and lost their mind in the process, maybe they had a room mate or a partner who was Trans, maybe they weren't, maybe this was a trigger for them to do this, maybe it wasn't, until more info comes out, we won't know. Given who the info is getting out from, even when the conclusions are presented I'll be very skeptical given Kash Patel's record of being a huge liar and a fraud who was selected for his position because of his loyalty to Trump. Even if the worse case scenario these right wing lunatics like Vance are presenting as facts now is true, that they were "radicalized by left ideology" that still doesn't make this the fault of the left. This was a mentally disturbed person who was obviously spending time on the parts of the internet that regular people don't frequent, and even if the whole right wing movement made incredible amounts of hay out of pretending that the insane radical accounts online (which are in a lot of cases Chinese and Russian bots) are "the left", that is simply not true. The left stands for tolerance and democracy, not for guns and vigilante justice. That would be the Rittenhouse crowd. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1721 Posts
On September 17 2025 01:14 castleeMg wrote: The right wing violence vs left wing violence, idk much about other than that article by some extreme left wing outlet. The "extreme left wing outlet" is only remarking that a National Institute of Justice (part of the Department of Justice) study was pulled off the Internet right after Kirk was shot. The report itself was not partisan. Read it for yourself: https://web.archive.org/web/20250802071930/https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism "Militant, nationalistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism. Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.[1] In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives.[2]" | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1721 Posts
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