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On July 09 2026 03:58 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2026 03:47 KwarK wrote:On July 09 2026 03:33 dyhb wrote:On July 09 2026 02:24 Falling wrote:On July 07 2026 08:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2026 07:54 dyhb wrote:Nazi tattoo guy, aspiring for Maine's Senate Seat over Susan Collins (R) might be done. Ro Khanna (D-CA), who endorsed Graham Platner last month, now withdraws his endorsement. Ruben Gallego too (D-AZ). There were previously rumors that his previous accusations from women would not be his last. That makes retaking the Senate harder. It runs through NC (Open), Ohio (Tossup), Michigan (open, hold), Alaska (Toss-up), and one from Iowa-Nebraska-Texas-Maine (Iowa more likely than Maine now, if you ask me). I'm not too familiar with Maine, but as long as Platner drops out and they replace him with Troy Jackson, Maine will probably still go D. If they try something sneaky to push the position away from the politics that won Platner the nomination they'll probably lose. If Platner refuses to leave (he has to drop out by the 13th to be replaced) I'm not sure whether the typical "vote blue no matter who" advocate would still advise voting for him, the Republican, or being one of those non-voters they are typically so critical of? To be clear, 'vote blue no matter who' is only relevant after the primaries are over. There were some skeleton hands flopping out of closets before the latest allegations came out. But, hey he was young(ish) and anti-establishment, so screw the establishment Dems! But until the deadline is crossed, there's no contradiction between opposing him during primaries and pressuring Platner to step down now and 'vote blue no matter who' position... and then maybe run a young establishment Democrat instead of populists with sketchy backgrounds who accuses politicians of being bought by The Jews. “Senator Collins is bought and paid for by Benjamin Netanyahu, and she votes accordingly,” They will get mad at you for saying “The Jews” instead of “Benjamin Netanyahu” in the quote. The allowed synonyms are AIPAC, Israel, and Zionists. This is important for self-identity, even though a common attack is that it’s basically The Jews. That doesn't make sense. Lots of Zionists aren't even Jewish. But 90% of Jews are Zionists.
Are you sure? There seems to be a lot of variation when it comes to polling data, especially when it comes to how Jewish people interpret the term "Zionist". For example:
"The Jewish Federations of North America released its survey of Jewish Americans last week. Much of the commentary on the survey has focused on the seemingly small share of respondents who identified as Zionist—just 37%. 8% identified as Non-Zionists and 7% as Anti-Zionists. The largest share of respondents, 48%, identified with none of those labels. The survey was conducted in March of 2025, as reports of worsening humanitarian conditions in Gaza were gaining traction.
Since surveys of Jewish Americans rarely ask whether they identify as Zionists, it is unclear whether the figure for those who embrace the label is low. In most surveys, respondents are asked their feelings and attitudes about Israel and not whether they identify as Zionists. In this respect, the JFNA survey found that 71% of respondents felt an emotional connection to Israel and 88% believed Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. These figures are in the ballpark of other surveys.
The survey’s most interesting findings were about how respondents understand the meaning of term “Zionism.” There is a broad consensus that it means “the right of the Jewish people to have a Jewish state.” Most Anti-Zionists and Non-Zionists, however, defined Zionism as also meaning “Israel has a right to the West Bank and Gaza Strip”; “supporting whatever actions Israel takes”; and “believing Jews are superior to Palestinians.” Respondents who identified as Zionists tended not to identify with these additional statements. This suggests that the share of respondents who identify with Zionism depends on the understanding of the term as much or more than it does than on actual support for Jewish nationhood.
Not surprisingly, the youngest age group, 18-34 year olds, were the most likely to identify as Anti-Zionist (14%) or Non-Zionist (18%). This is the age cohort that came of age during a succession of right wing governments in Israel, and that has been most exposed to the pro-Palestinian movement which has made “anti-Zionism” its core ideological commitment."
https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/jfna-survey-finds-just-37-of-jewish-americans-identify-as-zionists/
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On July 09 2026 03:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2026 03:33 dyhb wrote:On July 09 2026 02:24 Falling wrote:On July 07 2026 08:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2026 07:54 dyhb wrote:Nazi tattoo guy, aspiring for Maine's Senate Seat over Susan Collins (R) might be done. Ro Khanna (D-CA), who endorsed Graham Platner last month, now withdraws his endorsement. Ruben Gallego too (D-AZ). There were previously rumors that his previous accusations from women would not be his last. That makes retaking the Senate harder. It runs through NC (Open), Ohio (Tossup), Michigan (open, hold), Alaska (Toss-up), and one from Iowa-Nebraska-Texas-Maine (Iowa more likely than Maine now, if you ask me). I'm not too familiar with Maine, but as long as Platner drops out and they replace him with Troy Jackson, Maine will probably still go D. If they try something sneaky to push the position away from the politics that won Platner the nomination they'll probably lose. If Platner refuses to leave (he has to drop out by the 13th to be replaced) I'm not sure whether the typical "vote blue no matter who" advocate would still advise voting for him, the Republican, or being one of those non-voters they are typically so critical of? To be clear, 'vote blue no matter who' is only relevant after the primaries are over. There were some skeleton hands flopping out of closets before the latest allegations came out. But, hey he was young(ish) and anti-establishment, so screw the establishment Dems! But until the deadline is crossed, there's no contradiction between opposing him during primaries and pressuring Platner to step down now and 'vote blue no matter who' position... and then maybe run a young establishment Democrat instead of populists with sketchy backgrounds who accuses politicians of being bought by The Jews. “Senator Collins is bought and paid for by Benjamin Netanyahu, and she votes accordingly,” They will get mad at you for saying “The Jews” instead of “Benjamin Netanyahu” in the quote. The allowed synonyms are AIPAC, Israel, and Zionists. This is important for self-identity, even though a common attack is that it’s basically The Jews. That doesn't make sense. Lots of Zionists aren't even Jewish. I don’t think the way progressives use all four make any sense. But I am not a progressive.
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On July 09 2026 04:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2026 03:58 Billyboy wrote:On July 09 2026 03:47 KwarK wrote:On July 09 2026 03:33 dyhb wrote:On July 09 2026 02:24 Falling wrote:On July 07 2026 08:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2026 07:54 dyhb wrote:Nazi tattoo guy, aspiring for Maine's Senate Seat over Susan Collins (R) might be done. Ro Khanna (D-CA), who endorsed Graham Platner last month, now withdraws his endorsement. Ruben Gallego too (D-AZ). There were previously rumors that his previous accusations from women would not be his last. That makes retaking the Senate harder. It runs through NC (Open), Ohio (Tossup), Michigan (open, hold), Alaska (Toss-up), and one from Iowa-Nebraska-Texas-Maine (Iowa more likely than Maine now, if you ask me). I'm not too familiar with Maine, but as long as Platner drops out and they replace him with Troy Jackson, Maine will probably still go D. If they try something sneaky to push the position away from the politics that won Platner the nomination they'll probably lose. If Platner refuses to leave (he has to drop out by the 13th to be replaced) I'm not sure whether the typical "vote blue no matter who" advocate would still advise voting for him, the Republican, or being one of those non-voters they are typically so critical of? To be clear, 'vote blue no matter who' is only relevant after the primaries are over. There were some skeleton hands flopping out of closets before the latest allegations came out. But, hey he was young(ish) and anti-establishment, so screw the establishment Dems! But until the deadline is crossed, there's no contradiction between opposing him during primaries and pressuring Platner to step down now and 'vote blue no matter who' position... and then maybe run a young establishment Democrat instead of populists with sketchy backgrounds who accuses politicians of being bought by The Jews. “Senator Collins is bought and paid for by Benjamin Netanyahu, and she votes accordingly,” They will get mad at you for saying “The Jews” instead of “Benjamin Netanyahu” in the quote. The allowed synonyms are AIPAC, Israel, and Zionists. This is important for self-identity, even though a common attack is that it’s basically The Jews. That doesn't make sense. Lots of Zionists aren't even Jewish. But 90% of Jews are Zionists. Are you sure? There seems to be a lot of variation when it comes to polling data, especially when it comes to how Jewish people interpret the term "Zionist". For example: "The Jewish Federations of North America released its survey of Jewish Americans last week. Much of the commentary on the survey has focused on the seemingly small share of respondents who identified as Zionist—just 37%. 8% identified as Non-Zionists and 7% as Anti-Zionists. The largest share of respondents, 48%, identified with none of those labels. The survey was conducted in March of 2025, as reports of worsening humanitarian conditions in Gaza were gaining traction. Since surveys of Jewish Americans rarely ask whether they identify as Zionists, it is unclear whether the figure for those who embrace the label is low. In most surveys, respondents are asked their feelings and attitudes about Israel and not whether they identify as Zionists. In this respect, the JFNA survey found that 71% of respondents felt an emotional connection to Israel and 88% believed Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. These figures are in the ballpark of other surveys. The survey’s most interesting findings were about how respondents understand the meaning of term “Zionism.” There is a broad consensus that it means “the right of the Jewish people to have a Jewish state.” Most Anti-Zionists and Non-Zionists, however, defined Zionism as also meaning “Israel has a right to the West Bank and Gaza Strip”; “supporting whatever actions Israel takes”; and “believing Jews are superior to Palestinians.” Respondents who identified as Zionists tended not to identify with these additional statements. This suggests that the share of respondents who identify with Zionism depends on the understanding of the term as much or more than it does than on actual support for Jewish nationhood. Not surprisingly, the youngest age group, 18-34 year olds, were the most likely to identify as Anti-Zionist (14%) or Non-Zionist (18%). This is the age cohort that came of age during a succession of right wing governments in Israel, and that has been most exposed to the pro-Palestinian movement which has made “anti-Zionism” its core ideological commitment." https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/jfna-survey-finds-just-37-of-jewish-americans-identify-as-zionists/
Yes, there are a bunch of people who are Zionist who don’t identify as Zionist because many people have been force fed a wrong definition of Zionism and it has basically become in fashion to hate “Zionists”.
But all Zionism is, is wanting Isreal to exist. And it’s over 90% of Jews that believe that. Zionism doesn’t mean agreeing with Netanyahu, or wanting to make some Jewish empire, or whatever it is that people filled with hate have decided, and others believe because they don’t bother to actually look it up.
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On July 09 2026 04:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2026 03:58 Billyboy wrote:On July 09 2026 03:47 KwarK wrote:On July 09 2026 03:33 dyhb wrote:On July 09 2026 02:24 Falling wrote:On July 07 2026 08:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2026 07:54 dyhb wrote:Nazi tattoo guy, aspiring for Maine's Senate Seat over Susan Collins (R) might be done. Ro Khanna (D-CA), who endorsed Graham Platner last month, now withdraws his endorsement. Ruben Gallego too (D-AZ). There were previously rumors that his previous accusations from women would not be his last. That makes retaking the Senate harder. It runs through NC (Open), Ohio (Tossup), Michigan (open, hold), Alaska (Toss-up), and one from Iowa-Nebraska-Texas-Maine (Iowa more likely than Maine now, if you ask me). I'm not too familiar with Maine, but as long as Platner drops out and they replace him with Troy Jackson, Maine will probably still go D. If they try something sneaky to push the position away from the politics that won Platner the nomination they'll probably lose. If Platner refuses to leave (he has to drop out by the 13th to be replaced) I'm not sure whether the typical "vote blue no matter who" advocate would still advise voting for him, the Republican, or being one of those non-voters they are typically so critical of? To be clear, 'vote blue no matter who' is only relevant after the primaries are over. There were some skeleton hands flopping out of closets before the latest allegations came out. But, hey he was young(ish) and anti-establishment, so screw the establishment Dems! But until the deadline is crossed, there's no contradiction between opposing him during primaries and pressuring Platner to step down now and 'vote blue no matter who' position... and then maybe run a young establishment Democrat instead of populists with sketchy backgrounds who accuses politicians of being bought by The Jews. “Senator Collins is bought and paid for by Benjamin Netanyahu, and she votes accordingly,” They will get mad at you for saying “The Jews” instead of “Benjamin Netanyahu” in the quote. The allowed synonyms are AIPAC, Israel, and Zionists. This is important for self-identity, even though a common attack is that it’s basically The Jews. That doesn't make sense. Lots of Zionists aren't even Jewish. But 90% of Jews are Zionists. Are you sure? There seems to be a lot of variation when it comes to polling data, especially when it comes to how Jewish people interpret the term "Zionist". For example: + Show Spoiler +"The Jewish Federations of North America released its survey of Jewish Americans last week. Much of the commentary on the survey has focused on the seemingly small share of respondents who identified as Zionist—just 37%. 8% identified as Non-Zionists and 7% as Anti-Zionists. The largest share of respondents, 48%, identified with none of those labels. The survey was conducted in March of 2025, as reports of worsening humanitarian conditions in Gaza were gaining traction.
Since surveys of Jewish Americans rarely ask whether they identify as Zionists, it is unclear whether the figure for those who embrace the label is low. In most surveys, respondents are asked their feelings and attitudes about Israel and not whether they identify as Zionists. In this respect, the JFNA survey found that 71% of respondents felt an emotional connection to Israel and 88% believed Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. These figures are in the ballpark of other surveys.
The survey’s most interesting findings were about how respondents understand the meaning of term “Zionism.” There is a broad consensus that it means “the right of the Jewish people to have a Jewish state.” Most Anti-Zionists and Non-Zionists, however, defined Zionism as also meaning “Israel has a right to the West Bank and Gaza Strip”; “supporting whatever actions Israel takes”; and “believing Jews are superior to Palestinians.” Respondents who identified as Zionists tended not to identify with these additional statements. + Show Spoiler + This suggests that the share of respondents who identify with Zionism depends on the understanding of the term as much or more than it does than on actual support for Jewish nationhood. Not surprisingly, the youngest age group, 18-34 year olds, were the most likely to identify as Anti-Zionist (14%) or Non-Zionist (18%). This is the age cohort that came of age during a succession of right wing governments in Israel, and that has been most exposed to the pro-Palestinian movement which has made “anti-Zionism” its core ideological commitment." https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/jfna-survey-finds-just-37-of-jewish-americans-identify-as-zionists/
Hmmm.... "Tended not to"? Can't help but wonder what percentage of self-identified Zionists identify Zionism as "“Israel has a right to the West Bank and Gaza Strip”; “supporting whatever actions Israel takes”; and “believing Jews are superior to Palestinians.”" ?
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On July 09 2026 04:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2026 03:58 Billyboy wrote:On July 09 2026 03:47 KwarK wrote:On July 09 2026 03:33 dyhb wrote:On July 09 2026 02:24 Falling wrote:On July 07 2026 08:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2026 07:54 dyhb wrote:Nazi tattoo guy, aspiring for Maine's Senate Seat over Susan Collins (R) might be done. Ro Khanna (D-CA), who endorsed Graham Platner last month, now withdraws his endorsement. Ruben Gallego too (D-AZ). There were previously rumors that his previous accusations from women would not be his last. That makes retaking the Senate harder. It runs through NC (Open), Ohio (Tossup), Michigan (open, hold), Alaska (Toss-up), and one from Iowa-Nebraska-Texas-Maine (Iowa more likely than Maine now, if you ask me). I'm not too familiar with Maine, but as long as Platner drops out and they replace him with Troy Jackson, Maine will probably still go D. If they try something sneaky to push the position away from the politics that won Platner the nomination they'll probably lose. If Platner refuses to leave (he has to drop out by the 13th to be replaced) I'm not sure whether the typical "vote blue no matter who" advocate would still advise voting for him, the Republican, or being one of those non-voters they are typically so critical of? To be clear, 'vote blue no matter who' is only relevant after the primaries are over. There were some skeleton hands flopping out of closets before the latest allegations came out. But, hey he was young(ish) and anti-establishment, so screw the establishment Dems! But until the deadline is crossed, there's no contradiction between opposing him during primaries and pressuring Platner to step down now and 'vote blue no matter who' position... and then maybe run a young establishment Democrat instead of populists with sketchy backgrounds who accuses politicians of being bought by The Jews. “Senator Collins is bought and paid for by Benjamin Netanyahu, and she votes accordingly,” They will get mad at you for saying “The Jews” instead of “Benjamin Netanyahu” in the quote. The allowed synonyms are AIPAC, Israel, and Zionists. This is important for self-identity, even though a common attack is that it’s basically The Jews. That doesn't make sense. Lots of Zionists aren't even Jewish. But 90% of Jews are Zionists. Are you sure? There seems to be a lot of variation when it comes to polling data, especially when it comes to how Jewish people interpret the term "Zionist". For example: "The Jewish Federations of North America released its survey of Jewish Americans last week. Much of the commentary on the survey has focused on the seemingly small share of respondents who identified as Zionist—just 37%. 8% identified as Non-Zionists and 7% as Anti-Zionists. The largest share of respondents, 48%, identified with none of those labels. The survey was conducted in March of 2025, as reports of worsening humanitarian conditions in Gaza were gaining traction. Since surveys of Jewish Americans rarely ask whether they identify as Zionists, it is unclear whether the figure for those who embrace the label is low. In most surveys, respondents are asked their feelings and attitudes about Israel and not whether they identify as Zionists. In this respect, the JFNA survey found that 71% of respondents felt an emotional connection to Israel and 88% believed Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. These figures are in the ballpark of other surveys. The survey’s most interesting findings were about how respondents understand the meaning of term “Zionism.” There is a broad consensus that it means “the right of the Jewish people to have a Jewish state.” Most Anti-Zionists and Non-Zionists, however, defined Zionism as also meaning “Israel has a right to the West Bank and Gaza Strip”; “supporting whatever actions Israel takes”; and “believing Jews are superior to Palestinians.” Respondents who identified as Zionists tended not to identify with these additional statements. This suggests that the share of respondents who identify with Zionism depends on the understanding of the term as much or more than it does than on actual support for Jewish nationhood. Not surprisingly, the youngest age group, 18-34 year olds, were the most likely to identify as Anti-Zionist (14%) or Non-Zionist (18%). This is the age cohort that came of age during a succession of right wing governments in Israel, and that has been most exposed to the pro-Palestinian movement which has made “anti-Zionism” its core ideological commitment." https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/jfna-survey-finds-just-37-of-jewish-americans-identify-as-zionists/
Ah good, so Jewish (by heritage) people are only 37% Zionist (meaning they believe Jewish (by faith?) people have a right to a Jewish (by heritage?) state?) and 8% are anti-Zionist (meaning they don't believe in Israel's right to the West Bank and/or Gaza Strip).
This isn't confusing at all, I hope we differentiate between all the groups of Zionists definitionally but still call them all Zionists.
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You have to square Zionism with the 88% that think Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. A Jewish state in the Middle East is basically what Zionism sought to make over a century ago, Der Judenstaat and Theodore Herzl and the first Zionist Congress. So I see 37% and read that as containing several asterisks. Try finding antizionists that simultaneously think that a Jewish ethnostate has a right to exist in the Middle East.
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This is another case of words becoming fuzzy over time because of bad actors intentionally obfuscating them, like "socialism" or "illegal immigrant".
The term "Zionist" originally meant someone who supported a homeland for Jews, but because the most fanatical Israel supporters accuse you of being an antisemite when you ask how blowing up a hospital or allowing settlers to steal people's houses are "counter-terrorism," it now colloquially means anyone who unconditionally supports the Israeli government against whatever real or perceived threat they're facing.
Zohran Mamdani said he supported the existence of a secular Israeli state, that technically makes him a "Zionist" in the classical sense, but you're never going to hear FOX News call him one.
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EPT
