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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
gosh, if only we had some kind of record of what each user spends time thinking and posting about.
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Northern Ireland26367 Posts
On August 12 2025 12:57 oBlade wrote:
You have a naive block with the idea people are supposed to objectively calculate the importance of everything in the world and correctly apportion the speech of their measly 42 million minutes appropriately, and that you have superuser access to know they're allocating said time correctly.
Like how many times have you come out against people stabbing each other in the eyeballs to death, WombaT? Not quite enough for my satisfaction. In fact I've not seen it once. Problematic.
Whatever one thinks about my politics, I’ll tell you my politics. If you don’t like it em, totally fine. No skin off my back.
Blackjack plays perpetual devil’s advocate, and gets annoyed when people assume the positions he always ‘devil’s advocates’ for are his actual positions
Totally the same thing though, absolutely. Well played you got me there
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I'm not sure any amount of effort from BlackJack would give him control over other people assuming things about him. If their goal is to call him a "useful idiot" they'll get there however they can.
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On August 12 2025 12:49 WombaT wrote:
Call me crazy but I would generally be more concerned about how you know, an actual government operates, that runs than the executive than 15 year olds on Tumblr and what they’re up to.
That may just be me though
I've never been on Tumblr and I don't really know what goes on there but just for you I will try to spend less time talking about Tumblr and what goes on there.
On August 12 2025 13:03 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 12:57 oBlade wrote:
You have a naive block with the idea people are supposed to objectively calculate the importance of everything in the world and correctly apportion the speech of their measly 42 million minutes appropriately, and that you have superuser access to know they're allocating said time correctly.
Like how many times have you come out against people stabbing each other in the eyeballs to death, WombaT? Not quite enough for my satisfaction. In fact I've not seen it once. Problematic. Whatever one thinks about my politics, I’ll tell you my politics. If you don’t like it em, totally fine. No skin off my back. Blackjack plays perpetual devil’s advocate, and gets annoyed when people assume the positions he always ‘devil’s advocates’ for are his actual positions Totally the same thing though, absolutely. Well played you got me there
I have no problem stating my position on an issue, e.g. My post to Uldridge here
I also get that nobody has the wherewithal to know or memorize every stance I have on an issue and it's almost a necessity that our minds make these connections like "This person is a conservative. Conservatives mostly believe this thing. I think it's safe to assume this person also believe that thing."
If someone assumed a stance I had in a good faith manner I wouldn't take as much of an issue with it. But the posts directed at me about trans people using public bathrooms or Colin Kaepernick and others being canceled seemed like a really bad faith attempt to score points by going after some low hanging fruit. There's literally no reason to start talking about Colin Kaepernick in the context of that discussion. LightSpectra's brain just wandered like a moth to a flame onto the next thing to rant about. Unfortunately the search function was able to quickly reveal a history of posts that I really don't care about trans people using public bathrooms and I'm not ok with cancel culture as long as it's the right doing it.
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On August 12 2025 13:32 oBlade wrote:
I'm not sure any amount of effort from BlackJack would give him control over other people assuming things about him. If their goal is to call him a "useful idiot" they'll get there however they can.
It would take very little effort. All he would have to do is show the bare minimum of respect and clarify what he is trying to say. Constant vague posting and refusing to engage with what other people are saying is not how normal people express themselves, expecting to be understood. Trying to harp on technical and irrelevant points while refusing to admit that they may have done anything wrong is also not a way to engender the kind of good will for people to give you the benifit of the doubt. Trying to harp on them when you don't understand, and are telling people you don't understand what people are talking about, Just makes you look bad. When BJ runs out of rope he runs right back to the same tired tropes and insults that would require good will, respect, a benifit of the double, or any sort of look that doesn't come off as being whiny.
Also Ozempic is a GLP-1, other companies can and do sell GLP-1's. They're a really cool breakthrough in medical tech recently. If we produced enough of it people would stop dieing from diabetes by at least a million people a year.
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On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) Show nested quote +On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan".
Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
(I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.)
I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress).
I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation.
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On August 12 2025 13:52 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 13:32 oBlade wrote:
I'm not sure any amount of effort from BlackJack would give him control over other people assuming things about him. If their goal is to call him a "useful idiot" they'll get there however they can. It would take very little effort. All he would have to do is show the bare minimum of respect and clarify what he is trying to say. Constant vague posting and refusing to engage with what other people are saying is not how normal people express themselves, expecting to be understood. Trying to harp on technical and irrelevant points while refusing to admit that they may have done anything wrong is also not a way to engender the kind of good will for people to give you the benifit of the doubt. Trying to harp on them when you don't understand, and are telling people you don't understand what people are talking about, Just makes you look bad. When BJ runs out of rope he runs right back to the same tired tropes and insults that would require good will, respect, a benifit of the double, or any sort of look that doesn't come off as being whiny. Also Ozempic is a GLP-1, other companies can and do sell GLP-1's. They're a really cool breakthrough in medical tech recently. If we produced enough of it people would stop dieing from diabetes by at least a million people a year.
The interesting thing with an economic view on this is that it is economical under current law if you just change the rule not allowing central negotiation. If you instead switched the rules and laws to promote much healthier food and mobility of people you would achieve the same thing long term with reduced cost.
Doing both is probably the correct thing, burn money short term for better outcomes. Change the preconditions long term.
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On August 12 2025 14:28 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 13:52 Sermokala wrote:On August 12 2025 13:32 oBlade wrote:
I'm not sure any amount of effort from BlackJack would give him control over other people assuming things about him. If their goal is to call him a "useful idiot" they'll get there however they can. It would take very little effort. All he would have to do is show the bare minimum of respect and clarify what he is trying to say. Constant vague posting and refusing to engage with what other people are saying is not how normal people express themselves, expecting to be understood. Trying to harp on technical and irrelevant points while refusing to admit that they may have done anything wrong is also not a way to engender the kind of good will for people to give you the benifit of the doubt. Trying to harp on them when you don't understand, and are telling people you don't understand what people are talking about, Just makes you look bad. When BJ runs out of rope he runs right back to the same tired tropes and insults that would require good will, respect, a benifit of the double, or any sort of look that doesn't come off as being whiny. Also Ozempic is a GLP-1, other companies can and do sell GLP-1's. They're a really cool breakthrough in medical tech recently. If we produced enough of it people would stop dieing from diabetes by at least a million people a year. The interesting thing with an economic view on this is that it is economical under current law. If you instead switched the rules and laws to promote much healthier food and mobility of people you would achieve the same thing long term with reduced cost. Doing both is probably the correct thing, burn money short term for better outcomes. Change the preconditions long term.
Another point for universal health care is that the companies would be motivated to lower costs of care and preventing the need for care in the first place. It would be well within the governments intrest to lower diabetes in the population in order to lower Healthcare costs. Instead companies have a motivation to increase diabedes in order to sell more of the drugs to treat it.
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On August 12 2025 12:38 BlackJack wrote:
Your poll is unnecessary because even I will agree with your characterization that I spend more time criticizing wokeism than I do conservatives/Trump. I just don't understand the need to have a tantrum about it. It's like complaining "Only 95% of the posts here are criticizing Trump and if you would stop being such a jerk and do your part we could get to 97-98% so wtf is your problem!" I've never seen anyone so triggered that their echo chamber doesn't echo back perfectly. If you want to criticize my dissenting opinions then go ahead, but you shouldn't a) criticize me simply for having dissenting opinions and b) foist any position of the conservative right onto me as if I'm on board with it just because I don't spend all day bemoaning it.
Has it ever occured to you that Trump is in fact such a shit piece of a human being that he deserves to be universally hated? That we're perhaps not doing it for sports? That people call him a fascist because it's true and not because everyone's automatically a fascist who wore blackface once in their life?
Last I checked people are not calling for Trudeau's head, right? He wore blackface. Trump did not. So why are we focusing our hatred on Trump and not on Trudeau? Do we have our priorities backwards?
Or could the much simpler explanation be that Trump is worthy of all this hatred and Trudeau isn't? That we don't just pick our favorites based on one transgression but rather on the sum of all actions of an individual? Is it possible? What do you think?
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On August 12 2025 14:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan". Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity (I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.) I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress). I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation.
It's a reference to Euromaidan.
The gist of it is that Euromaidan was (among other things) a wave of intense protests
During the uprising, Independence Square (Maidan) in Kyiv was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. It was guarded by 'Maidan Self-Defense' units made up of volunteers in improvised uniform and helmets, carrying shields and armed with sticks, stones and petrol bombs. Protests were also held in many other parts of Ukraine.
it was ostensibly the government's response that convinced Ukrainians to overthrow it with the "Revolution of Dignity".
The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion.
I have to admit, every time the libs/Dems/ilk around here get sucked into the constant cycle of mocking and gawking (which has helped make Trump more favorable than they are) it does not help me maintain that optimism.
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On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 14:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan". Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity (I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.) I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress). I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation. It's a reference to Euromaidan. The gist of it is that Euromaidan was (among other things) a wave of intense protests Show nested quote +During the uprising, Independence Square (Maidan) in Kyiv was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. It was guarded by 'Maidan Self-Defense' units made up of volunteers in improvised uniform and helmets, carrying shields and armed with sticks, stones and petrol bombs. Protests were also held in many other parts of Ukraine. it was ostensibly the government's response that convinced Ukrainians to overthrow it with the "Revolution of Dignity". The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion. I have to admit, every time the libs/Dems/ilk around here get sucked into the constant cycle of mocking and gawking (which has helped make Trump more favorable than they are) it does not help me maintain that optimism.
Last time you said anything about Euromaidan in the Ukraine thread, it was to lament hegemonic meddling by the capitalist west (particularly the US) in Ukraine's politics, and to say that Russia's invasion was basically caused by the Ukrainians and western influence causing them to reject their rightful place as a Russian puppet state with a corrupt leader who ignored direct outcomes of referenda in favour of licking Putin's boots.
Whew, that was a mouthful. But just to be clear, you now want that same Euromaidan protest to shine as an example of how Americans should gather in Washington to demand regime change? Did you (1) come to the realization that Ukrainians have the right to self-determination and not live under the heel of a Russian overlord, and everything you've claimed before about Euromaidan was rubbish? Or (2) you want Putin to invade the US and bring "peace and democracy"?
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On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion.
Your lives are too comfy for that. People don't do revolutions when they have their needs met and fight over Labubu keychains on the weekend.
Trump could have changed that by doubling down on his "understanding" of economics, but when industry leaders pulled him aside and told him that 100%+ tariffs would mean empty shelves he backed down and issued pause after pause.
A good barometer for this is what happened after the Luigi incident. Which is nothing. A lot of people invoking him under stories of greed, wishing for more anti-corporate violence but for someone else to do it, someone with their views but more desperate and with less to lose, someone that doesn't really exist.
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On August 12 2025 16:10 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 14:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan". Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity (I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.) I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress). I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation. It's a reference to Euromaidan. The gist of it is that Euromaidan was (among other things) a wave of intense protests During the uprising, Independence Square (Maidan) in Kyiv was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. It was guarded by 'Maidan Self-Defense' units made up of volunteers in improvised uniform and helmets, carrying shields and armed with sticks, stones and petrol bombs. Protests were also held in many other parts of Ukraine. it was ostensibly the government's response that convinced Ukrainians to overthrow it with the "Revolution of Dignity". The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion. I have to admit, every time the libs/Dems/ilk around here get sucked into the constant cycle of mocking and gawking (which has helped make Trump more favorable than they are) it does not help me maintain that optimism. Last time you said anything about Euromaidan in the Ukraine thread, it was to lament hegemonic meddling by the capitalist west (particularly the US) in Ukraine's politics, and to say that Russia's invasion was basically caused by the Ukrainians and western influence causing them to reject their rightful place as a Russian puppet state with a corrupt leader who ignored direct outcomes of referenda in favour of licking Putin's boots. Whew, that was a mouthful. But just to be clear, you now want that same Euromaidan protest to shine as an example of how Americans should gather in Washington to demand regime change? Did you (1) come to the realization that Ukrainians have the right to self-determination and not live under the heel of a Russian overlord, and everything you've claimed before about Euromaidan was rubbish? Or (2) you want Putin to invade the US and bring "peace and democracy"?
Given his stances on China, I'd say he probably wishes that just like "US coped Ukraine to fuck with Russia" China does the same to the US in order to bring their benevolent and amazing political system.
Also, BJ is, in my humble opinion just a reactionary debate lord who got told they can't be a huge asshole to someone in real life by someone on the left 10 years ago and has been doubling down on reactionary politics ever since.
He doesn't really have political stances, he'll say whatever he thinks will trigger as many people who are willing to engage, it's a pretty hollow way to go through life but that's so many of these guys, I don't get it but I don't work in pediatric child care so maybe I'm just ignorant and he's fighting a holy, righteous crusade.
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On August 12 2025 16:25 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion. Your lives are too comfy for that. People don't do revolutions when they have their needs met and fight over Labubu keychains on the weekend. + Show Spoiler +Trump could have changed that by doubling down on his "understanding" of economics, but when industry leaders pulled him aside and told him that 100%+ tariffs would mean empty shelves he backed down and issued pause after pause.
A good barometer for this is what happened after the Luigi incident. Which is nothing. A lot of people invoking him under stories of greed, wishing for more anti-corporate violence but for someone else to do it, someone with their views but more desperate and with less to lose, someone that doesn't really exist.
I appreciate the sentiment, but there's a bit more to it. The people that did the "Boston Tea Party" weren't exactly starving peasants.
Unfortunately for humanity, the necessity and plausibility don't have to overlap
On August 08 2025 01:25 GreenHorizons wrote:I think the fundamental problem is that what humanity objectively needs to do and what it is willing/capable of doing as it is organized simply don't overlap. We could give Democrats 60 seats in the Senate and a 40 seat lead in the house for decades and they wouldn't even be able to undo the damage Trump has done in 6 months with far less, let alone actually address the existential threats we face. ChristianS pretty much nailed it ~4 years ago: Show nested quote +On September 26 2021 11:52 ChristianS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 06:39 Belisarius wrote:
All of which is why the voting rights bill was so important. If the US is a full neofascist state in 12 years time with a 43% R popular vote, I think this year will go down as the last chance you had to hit the brakes.
Gerrymandering is just so unbelievably poisonous to democracy. To stop it, you have to overtake it. Biden came alongside, but then he chickened out and let two random senators decide the trajectory of the next 20 years.
The R's now seem free to accelerate into the distance, limited only by the sheer incompetence of the candidates they're cheating into office. Does a voting rights bill fix it? The nature of US politics is that Republicans will inevitably be back in power sooner or later, and so far they don’t seem to face any penalty in public opinion to openly despising rule of law and aspiring to violent takeovers. Gerrymandering is fucked but it’s a pretty slow way to seize power compared to, you know, just doing it. I mean, GH pointed out that “we need the Republican Party actually” is ridiculous for a Democrat to think. Which seems right to me. Nothing about the modern Republican Party seems capable of becoming compatible with democracy, let alone interested in doing so, and the public seems apathetic at best. Gorsameth pointed out we need two parties in our system, which seems right to me too. What disturbs me is that “the Republican Party is irredeemable and cannot realistically be reformed or replaced” and “our system cannot function without 2 parties” aren’t incompatible statements, but the implication of both being true is catastrophic. It feels like we’re all doing the math on our current velocity toward the cliff and distance from it and maximum braking force, but the math isn’t actually very hard. We just keep recalculating because the result we keep getting is unfathomable.
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On August 12 2025 16:52 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 16:10 Acrofales wrote:On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 14:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan". Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity (I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.) I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress). I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation. It's a reference to Euromaidan. The gist of it is that Euromaidan was (among other things) a wave of intense protests During the uprising, Independence Square (Maidan) in Kyiv was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. It was guarded by 'Maidan Self-Defense' units made up of volunteers in improvised uniform and helmets, carrying shields and armed with sticks, stones and petrol bombs. Protests were also held in many other parts of Ukraine. it was ostensibly the government's response that convinced Ukrainians to overthrow it with the "Revolution of Dignity". The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion. I have to admit, every time the libs/Dems/ilk around here get sucked into the constant cycle of mocking and gawking (which has helped make Trump more favorable than they are) it does not help me maintain that optimism. Last time you said anything about Euromaidan in the Ukraine thread, it was to lament hegemonic meddling by the capitalist west (particularly the US) in Ukraine's politics, and to say that Russia's invasion was basically caused by the Ukrainians and western influence causing them to reject their rightful place as a Russian puppet state with a corrupt leader who ignored direct outcomes of referenda in favour of licking Putin's boots. Whew, that was a mouthful. But just to be clear, you now want that same Euromaidan protest to shine as an example of how Americans should gather in Washington to demand regime change? Did you (1) come to the realization that Ukrainians have the right to self-determination and not live under the heel of a Russian overlord, and everything you've claimed before about Euromaidan was rubbish? Or (2) you want Putin to invade the US and bring "peace and democracy"? Given his stances on China, I'd say he probably wishes that just like "US coped Ukraine to fuck with Russia" China does the same to the US in order to bring their benevolent and amazing political system. Also, BJ is, in my humble opinion just a reactionary debate lord who got told they can't be a huge asshole to someone in real life by someone on the left 10 years ago and has been doubling down on reactionary politics ever since. He doesn't really have political stances, he'll say whatever he thinks will trigger as many people who are willing to engage, it's a pretty hollow way to go through life but that's so many of these guys, I don't get it but I don't work in pediatric child care so maybe I'm just ignorant and he's fighting a holy, righteous crusade.
Just for you here's my stance one more time
+ Show Spoiler +On July 03 2023 15:00 BlackJack wrote:
Thanks for asking. I guess I’ll add my thoughts on a few “trans issues”
Gender-affirming care
Obviously no sane person would oppose gender affirming care for adults so this is going to be about minors. While I don’t think the medical establishment is infallible (can cite many examples) I think they are still the best ones to make decisions on gender affirming care than politicians. Ultimately you need 3 parties consent here for any intervention, child, parent, and doctor. I don’t think parental rights are limitless but I generally yield to them vs the opinions of politicians. Whether a child ends up with regret may be tragic, sometimes that’s just life
Of course that simply means the medical establishment should call the shots, it doesn’t say what shots I think should be called. For example the medical establishment in America recommends gender affirming care for minors and the medical establishment in Finland/Sweden recommend against it. I don’t think the medical establishment in Finland/Sweden is full of bigots and transphobes and I obviously share some of their concerns e.g the unexplained rise in prevalence of gender dysphoria in female adolescents and rigorous evidence that shows the benefits outweighs the risks. I’ve posted before in this thread about social contagion. I think most people here believe that trans people are “born that way.” I tend to believe most things are a combination of nature vs nurture and it’s only for controversial topics that people will adopt this “it’s entirely genetic” or “it’s entirely environmental” dogma that hasn’t been proven.
In general I think gender affirming care is not something that should be immediately adopted. I’m also not familiar enough to know if it is or not. I don’t think a boy goes to a therapist for the first time and says “I’m a girl and my name is Susan” and the doctor says “Hi Susan.” I would hope there would be some “interesting… well why do you feel that way” beforehand. But ultimately it may be the judgement of the doctor and the parent that it’s not a phase they will grow out of and gender affirming care may be necessary. So I would say generally I think there should be a line drawn between reversible and irreversible interventions. E.g. role playing and puberty blockers as reversible. There’s some evidence that puberty blockers transitioned into hormone therapy in teenagers causes infertility, and I don’t really think anyone should be having top/bottom surgery before 18.
Transgender women in supports
This is anecdotal but most transgender women I meet are not athletes. They are definitely not elite athletes. I also think there’s a gap between men and women in sports, and not a small one. Often high school level boys can compete with professional women at the top levels. I also think Rayzda is right that without protections over time most world records would belong to MTF athletes. I also think most reasonable people agree this is unfair. I think most people think there should be some protections in place. For example to be a transgendered woman there are no requirements other than proclaiming yourself to be a transgender woman. I think if a male athlete just proclaimed themselves to be a transgender woman and wanted to race the next day against women most people would opposed this.
In short, a blanket ban on all MTF athletes doesn’t make sense because for the vast majority of the less talented athletes it accomplishes nothing in protect women’s sports and only excludes transgender athletes needlessly. Obviously there’s a small percent of cases where there is an obvious advantage that allows them to dominate and become champions and they are the few that should be excluded.
Bathroom bans
Just political theater in my opinion. People don’t go into the wrong bathrooms not because it’s the law but because that’s what societal norms dictate. I’m not aware of this being a problem and if it becomes a problem then you can worry about legislating it.
I really couldn't be any more clear or concise. I can't control if people would rather talk about public bathrooms and who watches more trans porn, but you can't close your eyes and say I don't have a stance when it's clearly written in black and grey.
|
I think BJ has made it abundantly clear that he's not anti-trans, and neither is he a racist or whatever other label. He's just someone who frequently fights with progressives.
What people may not understand about BJ is that he's very fact-oriented. That doesn't mean he gets every fact right, but nonetheless he focuses on facts. He's good at it. I'm not as good with facts as he is, I'm more of a bigger picture person.
Lets say X is the fact and Y is the bigger picture, then often times the argument goes like this: BJ argues about X and I respond X doesn't matter because it changes nothing about Y. I think Y is the real problem, BJ thinks X is the real problem, and we get nowhere. I also see this dynamic between him and others, which frequently leads to irritation on both sides.
So why don't we see BJ fight with conservatives and other right-wingers as much? Probably the same reason why I don't fight with progressives so much.
Now, I'd argue that we're currently living through a time where more people should fight against right-wingers. The US is turning towards fascism, and this is not a joke anymore. I'd hope BJ also comes around and understands that wokeism is no threat when compared to fascism. I'd wish for him to help provide us with facts that can help expose the fascists - especially since he's good with facts.
BJ is not a troll and he's also not a contrarian just for the sake of it. I think he doesn't agree with other people that the fascist threat is of great concern.
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If you say so, it must be true.
The guy that argues for pages upon pages even on topics he doesn't even disagree with people totally isn't a contrarian for the sake of it. Glad your big picture view let you see this.
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On August 12 2025 19:01 Velr wrote:
If you say so, it must be true.
The guy that argues for pages upon pages even on topics he doesn't even disagree with people totally isn't a contrarian for the sake of it. Glad your big picture view let you see this.
I mean if you wanna see it this way, feel free. I have lots of antagonistic history with BJ and no reason to defend him.
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On August 12 2025 17:19 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 16:52 Jankisa wrote:On August 12 2025 16:10 Acrofales wrote:On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 14:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan". Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity (I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.) I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress). I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation. It's a reference to Euromaidan. The gist of it is that Euromaidan was (among other things) a wave of intense protests During the uprising, Independence Square (Maidan) in Kyiv was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. It was guarded by 'Maidan Self-Defense' units made up of volunteers in improvised uniform and helmets, carrying shields and armed with sticks, stones and petrol bombs. Protests were also held in many other parts of Ukraine. it was ostensibly the government's response that convinced Ukrainians to overthrow it with the "Revolution of Dignity". The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion. I have to admit, every time the libs/Dems/ilk around here get sucked into the constant cycle of mocking and gawking (which has helped make Trump more favorable than they are) it does not help me maintain that optimism. Last time you said anything about Euromaidan in the Ukraine thread, it was to lament hegemonic meddling by the capitalist west (particularly the US) in Ukraine's politics, and to say that Russia's invasion was basically caused by the Ukrainians and western influence causing them to reject their rightful place as a Russian puppet state with a corrupt leader who ignored direct outcomes of referenda in favour of licking Putin's boots. Whew, that was a mouthful. But just to be clear, you now want that same Euromaidan protest to shine as an example of how Americans should gather in Washington to demand regime change? Did you (1) come to the realization that Ukrainians have the right to self-determination and not live under the heel of a Russian overlord, and everything you've claimed before about Euromaidan was rubbish? Or (2) you want Putin to invade the US and bring "peace and democracy"? Given his stances on China, I'd say he probably wishes that just like "US coped Ukraine to fuck with Russia" China does the same to the US in order to bring their benevolent and amazing political system. Also, BJ is, in my humble opinion just a reactionary debate lord who got told they can't be a huge asshole to someone in real life by someone on the left 10 years ago and has been doubling down on reactionary politics ever since. He doesn't really have political stances, he'll say whatever he thinks will trigger as many people who are willing to engage, it's a pretty hollow way to go through life but that's so many of these guys, I don't get it but I don't work in pediatric child care so maybe I'm just ignorant and he's fighting a holy, righteous crusade. Just for you here's my stance one more time + Show Spoiler +On July 03 2023 15:00 BlackJack wrote:
Thanks for asking. I guess I’ll add my thoughts on a few “trans issues”
Gender-affirming care
Obviously no sane person would oppose gender affirming care for adults so this is going to be about minors. While I don’t think the medical establishment is infallible (can cite many examples) I think they are still the best ones to make decisions on gender affirming care than politicians. Ultimately you need 3 parties consent here for any intervention, child, parent, and doctor. I don’t think parental rights are limitless but I generally yield to them vs the opinions of politicians. Whether a child ends up with regret may be tragic, sometimes that’s just life
Of course that simply means the medical establishment should call the shots, it doesn’t say what shots I think should be called. For example the medical establishment in America recommends gender affirming care for minors and the medical establishment in Finland/Sweden recommend against it. I don’t think the medical establishment in Finland/Sweden is full of bigots and transphobes and I obviously share some of their concerns e.g the unexplained rise in prevalence of gender dysphoria in female adolescents and rigorous evidence that shows the benefits outweighs the risks. I’ve posted before in this thread about social contagion. I think most people here believe that trans people are “born that way.” I tend to believe most things are a combination of nature vs nurture and it’s only for controversial topics that people will adopt this “it’s entirely genetic” or “it’s entirely environmental” dogma that hasn’t been proven.
In general I think gender affirming care is not something that should be immediately adopted. I’m also not familiar enough to know if it is or not. I don’t think a boy goes to a therapist for the first time and says “I’m a girl and my name is Susan” and the doctor says “Hi Susan.” I would hope there would be some “interesting… well why do you feel that way” beforehand. But ultimately it may be the judgement of the doctor and the parent that it’s not a phase they will grow out of and gender affirming care may be necessary. So I would say generally I think there should be a line drawn between reversible and irreversible interventions. E.g. role playing and puberty blockers as reversible. There’s some evidence that puberty blockers transitioned into hormone therapy in teenagers causes infertility, and I don’t really think anyone should be having top/bottom surgery before 18.
Transgender women in supports
This is anecdotal but most transgender women I meet are not athletes. They are definitely not elite athletes. I also think there’s a gap between men and women in sports, and not a small one. Often high school level boys can compete with professional women at the top levels. I also think Rayzda is right that without protections over time most world records would belong to MTF athletes. I also think most reasonable people agree this is unfair. I think most people think there should be some protections in place. For example to be a transgendered woman there are no requirements other than proclaiming yourself to be a transgender woman. I think if a male athlete just proclaimed themselves to be a transgender woman and wanted to race the next day against women most people would opposed this.
In short, a blanket ban on all MTF athletes doesn’t make sense because for the vast majority of the less talented athletes it accomplishes nothing in protect women’s sports and only excludes transgender athletes needlessly. Obviously there’s a small percent of cases where there is an obvious advantage that allows them to dominate and become champions and they are the few that should be excluded.
Bathroom bans
Just political theater in my opinion. People don’t go into the wrong bathrooms not because it’s the law but because that’s what societal norms dictate. I’m not aware of this being a problem and if it becomes a problem then you can worry about legislating it. I really couldn't be any more clear or concise. I can't control if people would rather talk about public bathrooms and who watches more trans porn, but you can't close your eyes and say I don't have a stance when it's clearly written in black and grey.
It's not about the trans issues, hell, I don't really engage with thease kind of discussions because I'm both unqualified and don't care enough about it, I personally mostly align with what you wrote there, but I would never, ever go around and spend inordinate amounts of time being a contrarian over an issue that affects these poor people, the most marginalized and attacked minority in the world over the last 10 years.
If, by some miracle you aren't lying through your teeth about how many of them you meet, you are honestly a monster, to meet all these poor people who have the full weight of a whole fucking political movement that's world wide bearing down on them and you think that a good way to spend your time is to pile on, well, buddy, you are a fucking monster with no empathy.
Don't get me wrong, I think KwarK, as an example, is similar to you when it comes to Gaza, he obviously spends time thinking about it and continuously attacks the victims and people advocating for them. It's pretty fucked up, and I don't want to single just you out, but yeah, there is something deeply wrong with you if this is how you think and act.
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On August 12 2025 19:16 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2025 17:19 BlackJack wrote:On August 12 2025 16:52 Jankisa wrote:On August 12 2025 16:10 Acrofales wrote:On August 12 2025 15:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 14:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 12 2025 08:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 12 2025 06:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:We all knew this was coming, especially after women lost their rights. Gay marriage might be next. Supreme Court formally asked to overturn landmark same-sex marriage ruling
Ten years after the Supreme Court extended marriage rights to same-sex couples nationwide, the justices this fall will consider for the first time whether to take up a case that explicitly asks them to overturn that decision.
Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 after refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple on religious grounds, is appealing a $100,000 jury verdict for emotional damages plus $260,000 for attorneys fees. ... she claims the high court's decision in Obergefell v Hodges -- extending marriage rights for same-sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections -- was "egregiously wrong." https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-formally-asked-overturn-landmark-same-sex/story?id=124465302 On August 12 2025 03:51 Doublemint wrote:... Trump says he’s placing Washington police under federal control and activating the National GuardWASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Monday he’s taking over Washington’s police department and activating 800 members of the National Guard in the hopes of reducing crime, even as city officials stressed crime is already falling in the nation’s capital.
The president, flanked by his attorney general, his defense secretary and the FBI director, said he was declaring a public safety emergency and his administration would be removing homeless encampments.
“We’re going to take our capital back,” Trump declared... Sure seems like what I said is just going to be more true every day until it's too late (if it isn't already) On August 07 2025 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 07 2025 02:53 Zambrah wrote:
Needed violence to beat the last major batch of fascists, prepare to engage in some violence to beat the current ones. Does really seem like "AmeriMaidan or bust!" could and should more or less be the plan from libs/Dems/ilk. Every day/time they want to emphasize how Trump is being horrible/destroying democracy/is a stooge for Putin, it isn't winning over voters, it is demonstrating yet another reason why they need to support their own "AmeriMaidan". Is "AmeriMaidan" a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity (I'm not well-versed in that topic; sorry if I misunderstood.) I don't think that Americans would be willing to overthrow Trump and/or the Supreme Court (and/or Congress). I'm sure our TL thread will focus more on the upcoming Supreme Court case once it starts moving along. For now, it seems, the derailment of Razyda not knowing what a "job" is, and the reversion to the BlackJack/trans conversation, are the most popular topics of conversation. It's a reference to Euromaidan. The gist of it is that Euromaidan was (among other things) a wave of intense protests During the uprising, Independence Square (Maidan) in Kyiv was a huge protest camp occupied by thousands of protesters and protected by makeshift barricades. It had kitchens, first aid posts and broadcasting facilities, as well as stages for speeches, lectures, debates and performances. It was guarded by 'Maidan Self-Defense' units made up of volunteers in improvised uniform and helmets, carrying shields and armed with sticks, stones and petrol bombs. Protests were also held in many other parts of Ukraine. it was ostensibly the government's response that convinced Ukrainians to overthrow it with the "Revolution of Dignity". The sentiment Zambrah and I are sharing is that people in the US have to do something similar (whether they want to or not) or fascism will devastate all of us. Zambrah/Mohdoo more than myself have resigned to the belief that we're more likely banking on fascism imploding than Democrats (or their supporters) recognizing what the moment is demanding of them and rising to the occasion. I have to admit, every time the libs/Dems/ilk around here get sucked into the constant cycle of mocking and gawking (which has helped make Trump more favorable than they are) it does not help me maintain that optimism. Last time you said anything about Euromaidan in the Ukraine thread, it was to lament hegemonic meddling by the capitalist west (particularly the US) in Ukraine's politics, and to say that Russia's invasion was basically caused by the Ukrainians and western influence causing them to reject their rightful place as a Russian puppet state with a corrupt leader who ignored direct outcomes of referenda in favour of licking Putin's boots. Whew, that was a mouthful. But just to be clear, you now want that same Euromaidan protest to shine as an example of how Americans should gather in Washington to demand regime change? Did you (1) come to the realization that Ukrainians have the right to self-determination and not live under the heel of a Russian overlord, and everything you've claimed before about Euromaidan was rubbish? Or (2) you want Putin to invade the US and bring "peace and democracy"? Given his stances on China, I'd say he probably wishes that just like "US coped Ukraine to fuck with Russia" China does the same to the US in order to bring their benevolent and amazing political system. Also, BJ is, in my humble opinion just a reactionary debate lord who got told they can't be a huge asshole to someone in real life by someone on the left 10 years ago and has been doubling down on reactionary politics ever since. He doesn't really have political stances, he'll say whatever he thinks will trigger as many people who are willing to engage, it's a pretty hollow way to go through life but that's so many of these guys, I don't get it but I don't work in pediatric child care so maybe I'm just ignorant and he's fighting a holy, righteous crusade. Just for you here's my stance one more time + Show Spoiler +On July 03 2023 15:00 BlackJack wrote:
Thanks for asking. I guess I’ll add my thoughts on a few “trans issues”
Gender-affirming care
Obviously no sane person would oppose gender affirming care for adults so this is going to be about minors. While I don’t think the medical establishment is infallible (can cite many examples) I think they are still the best ones to make decisions on gender affirming care than politicians. Ultimately you need 3 parties consent here for any intervention, child, parent, and doctor. I don’t think parental rights are limitless but I generally yield to them vs the opinions of politicians. Whether a child ends up with regret may be tragic, sometimes that’s just life
Of course that simply means the medical establishment should call the shots, it doesn’t say what shots I think should be called. For example the medical establishment in America recommends gender affirming care for minors and the medical establishment in Finland/Sweden recommend against it. I don’t think the medical establishment in Finland/Sweden is full of bigots and transphobes and I obviously share some of their concerns e.g the unexplained rise in prevalence of gender dysphoria in female adolescents and rigorous evidence that shows the benefits outweighs the risks. I’ve posted before in this thread about social contagion. I think most people here believe that trans people are “born that way.” I tend to believe most things are a combination of nature vs nurture and it’s only for controversial topics that people will adopt this “it’s entirely genetic” or “it’s entirely environmental” dogma that hasn’t been proven.
In general I think gender affirming care is not something that should be immediately adopted. I’m also not familiar enough to know if it is or not. I don’t think a boy goes to a therapist for the first time and says “I’m a girl and my name is Susan” and the doctor says “Hi Susan.” I would hope there would be some “interesting… well why do you feel that way” beforehand. But ultimately it may be the judgement of the doctor and the parent that it’s not a phase they will grow out of and gender affirming care may be necessary. So I would say generally I think there should be a line drawn between reversible and irreversible interventions. E.g. role playing and puberty blockers as reversible. There’s some evidence that puberty blockers transitioned into hormone therapy in teenagers causes infertility, and I don’t really think anyone should be having top/bottom surgery before 18.
Transgender women in supports
This is anecdotal but most transgender women I meet are not athletes. They are definitely not elite athletes. I also think there’s a gap between men and women in sports, and not a small one. Often high school level boys can compete with professional women at the top levels. I also think Rayzda is right that without protections over time most world records would belong to MTF athletes. I also think most reasonable people agree this is unfair. I think most people think there should be some protections in place. For example to be a transgendered woman there are no requirements other than proclaiming yourself to be a transgender woman. I think if a male athlete just proclaimed themselves to be a transgender woman and wanted to race the next day against women most people would opposed this.
In short, a blanket ban on all MTF athletes doesn’t make sense because for the vast majority of the less talented athletes it accomplishes nothing in protect women’s sports and only excludes transgender athletes needlessly. Obviously there’s a small percent of cases where there is an obvious advantage that allows them to dominate and become champions and they are the few that should be excluded.
Bathroom bans
Just political theater in my opinion. People don’t go into the wrong bathrooms not because it’s the law but because that’s what societal norms dictate. I’m not aware of this being a problem and if it becomes a problem then you can worry about legislating it. I really couldn't be any more clear or concise. I can't control if people would rather talk about public bathrooms and who watches more trans porn, but you can't close your eyes and say I don't have a stance when it's clearly written in black and grey. Don't get me wrong, I think KwarK, as an example, is similar to you when it comes to Gaza, he obviously spends time thinking about it and continuously attacks the victims and people advocating for them. It's pretty fucked up, and I don't want to single just you out, but yeah, there is something deeply wrong with you if this is how you think and act.
Funny you mention it as I wrote this of Kwark in the Palestine thread
On July 20 2025 05:40 BlackJack wrote:
Kwark's position in this thread on the whole could hardly be called "pro-Israel" but because he actually offers nuanced takes and assigns blame to all sides deserving of blame he frequently gets shouted down as some kind of zionist sympathizer. Pretty standard as far as conversation in left wing circles goes.
Like I said, pretty typical of conversation on Left-wing circles goes. Be a "contrarian" on the border and you're piling on the poor immigrants looking for a better life. Be a "contrarian" on COVID and you're a heartless SOB that doesn't care about protecting grandmothers. Be a "contrarian" on biological males in women's sports and you're piling on trans people and throwing them under the bus. The list goes on and on. You're not looking for a real discussion. You're looking for groupthink consensus led by emotionally charged thinking.
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EPT
