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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 02:09 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:05 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 00:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 00:25 oBlade wrote:On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:
I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do. On November 17 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 00:13 oBlade wrote:
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Well we've gotten somewhere, thanks for at least agreeing they're not sexist since there's no overwhelming avoidance and hate by women. What the fuck? You didn't say anything about sexism, so I didn't respond to that. Women are ALSO avoiding the Republican party as proven by their representation. They're a TINY minority in the party. We just don't know whether that's because women hate Republicans or because Republicans hate women. Fucking outstanding gaslighting failure buddy. Either figure out what you believe, or make an effort to remember what you believe, or at least remember what you pretend to believe. This is getting childish. I can get more insight from an LLM. The sex divide in voting is like 55% Democrat / 45% Republican. Women and people of color can vote for any representation they want. You may be projecting your own racism and sexism that your natural instinct is to vote for someone who looks exactly like you at all costs - Americans don't think that way. It's not a good assumption to make. You're probably the outlier in that case. You didn't talk about sexism in the comment I responded to, you fool. Learn to follow your own argument. Here's a breakdown of Republican/Democrat support by gender. It's very obvious that women do NOT like Republicans. Only old or married women are more in support. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship-by-gender-sexual-orientation-marital-and-parental-status/ My mistake, 51/44, it's even closer than I thought. Yeah, across all women. If you narrow down by age, suddenly everything changes. Shocker: old women don't care about young women. They're selfish. Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were self less though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something. Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights.
My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you.
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On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 02:09 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:05 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 00:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 00:25 oBlade wrote:On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:
I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do. On November 17 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
What the fuck? You didn't say anything about sexism, so I didn't respond to that. Women are ALSO avoiding the Republican party as proven by their representation. They're a TINY minority in the party. We just don't know whether that's because women hate Republicans or because Republicans hate women. Fucking outstanding gaslighting failure buddy. Either figure out what you believe, or make an effort to remember what you believe, or at least remember what you pretend to believe. This is getting childish. I can get more insight from an LLM. The sex divide in voting is like 55% Democrat / 45% Republican. Women and people of color can vote for any representation they want. You may be projecting your own racism and sexism that your natural instinct is to vote for someone who looks exactly like you at all costs - Americans don't think that way. It's not a good assumption to make. You're probably the outlier in that case. You didn't talk about sexism in the comment I responded to, you fool. Learn to follow your own argument. Here's a breakdown of Republican/Democrat support by gender. It's very obvious that women do NOT like Republicans. Only old or married women are more in support. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship-by-gender-sexual-orientation-marital-and-parental-status/ My mistake, 51/44, it's even closer than I thought. Yeah, across all women. If you narrow down by age, suddenly everything changes. Shocker: old women don't care about young women. They're selfish. Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were self less though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something. Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you.
Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore.
Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner.
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I'll start calling Trumo fascistic when he tries to put concrete plans through congress to suppress minorities. The term feels very bloated right now and reeks of hysteria. The only thing Trump has demonstrated is that he's quite incompetent, very dramatic, very attention hungry and has a tendency to get into personal petty conflicts with the people he works with. We will see how congress acts or how the military body acts the next 4 years. We will see how much the radical branch grows and if so if enough of the population is emboldened enough to fight back if necessary. Trump is, at the moment at least, not much more than a populist.
Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe I'll get quoted that "first they came for the.." again to be reminded of what conflict seeking times we're living in because our lives are luxurious and subsequently boring as hell.
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On November 17 2024 21:59 Uldridge wrote:
I'll start calling Trumo fascistic when he tries to put concrete plans through congress to suppress minorities. The term feels very bloated right now and reeks of hysteria. The only thing Trump has demonstrated is that he's quite incompetent, very dramatic, very attention hungry and has a tendency to get into personal petty conflicts with the people he works with. We will see how congress acts or how the military body acts the next 4 years. We will see how much the radical branch grows and if so if enough of the population is emboldened enough to fight back if necessary. Trump is, at the moment at least, not much more than a populist.
Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe I'll get quoted that "first they came for the.." again to be reminded of what conflict seeking times we're living in because our lives are luxurious and subsequently boring as hell.
Hitler was a populist. He was one of the most populist populists one could imagine. So calling Trump a populist doesn't change anything about his fascism, these are not mutually exclusive - in fact they go hand in hand very very well.
He has declared last January with no room for interpretation that he will set back transgender rights by many generations of progress that was made. This is a plan, it's not an idea he just toyed with, it's a concrete plan. He has done the same thing with women's rights, so we know he walks the walk.
Keep putting your head in the sand. You're apologizing for a fascist.
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I'm not putting my head into anything. There's huge difference between Trump and Hitler. Care to know what that is? Hitler was and had basically all the things Trump isnt't and doens't have. He couldn't pull off fascism even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. We have multiple things on our side, one of them is recorded history. We know entrenched institutions will have to start functioning radically different for fascism to work. We also know that opposing parties need to be gotten rid of because they are part of the institutions that can put a stop to all the bullshit fascists are trying to pull. Also, the common enemy becomes a shared experience under which the nation unites to start getting rid of that enemy - actually I don't really know how many Germans became under the umbrella if the nation socialistic party.
Call me when Clinton mysteriously falls out of a window or something.
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On November 17 2024 22:42 Uldridge wrote:
I'm not putting my head into anything. There's huge difference between Trump and Hitler. Care to know what that is? Hitler was and had basically all the things Trump isnt't and doens't have. He couldn't pull off fascism even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. We have multiple things on our side, one of them is recorded history. We know entrenched institutions will have to start functioning radically different for fascism to work. We also know that opposing parties need to be gotten rid of because they are part of the institutions that can put a stop to all the bullshit fascists are trying to pull. Also, the common enemy becomes a shared experience under which the nation unites to start getting rid of that enemy - actually I don't really know how many Germans became under the umbrella if the nation socialistic party.
Call me when Clinton mysteriously falls out of a window or something.
1) The "huge difference" between them is that one tried to murder Jewish people (ofc I meant to say he murdered them, not "tried") and the other is taking people's rights away. No wait, that's not a difference at all. Can you guess what Hitler started with? Taking people's rights away. He didn't start murdering Jews and political opponents right away, that came later. First he took their rights, then he persecuted and imprisoned them, then he murdered them. It was one step after another.
2) Fascism is a spectrum, not a point. When you enter fascism, you don't necessarily go from a peaceful life to immediate totalitarian state and genocide. There's a wide range of fascism between life as we know it and extreme fascist ideologies like Nazism. Trump exists somewhere in the middle between the extreme end of fascism and the pre-Trump era. He chips away at people's rights and liberties one after the other. The fact that he's not literally Hitler changes nothing about the fact that he's a fascist.
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On November 17 2024 20:40 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 02:09 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:05 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 00:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 00:25 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Fucking outstanding gaslighting failure buddy. Either figure out what you believe, or make an effort to remember what you believe, or at least remember what you pretend to believe. This is getting childish. I can get more insight from an LLM.
The sex divide in voting is like 55% Democrat / 45% Republican. Women and people of color can vote for any representation they want. You may be projecting your own racism and sexism that your natural instinct is to vote for someone who looks exactly like you at all costs - Americans don't think that way. It's not a good assumption to make. You're probably the outlier in that case. You didn't talk about sexism in the comment I responded to, you fool. Learn to follow your own argument. Here's a breakdown of Republican/Democrat support by gender. It's very obvious that women do NOT like Republicans. Only old or married women are more in support. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship-by-gender-sexual-orientation-marital-and-parental-status/ My mistake, 51/44, it's even closer than I thought. Yeah, across all women. If you narrow down by age, suddenly everything changes. Shocker: old women don't care about young women. They're selfish. Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were self less though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something. Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you. Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore. Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner.
The female population leans slightly Democrat according to your own source. 51/44. Lean there being the opposite of overwhelming. 51/44 is not overwhelming. It's whelming. People who identify in a survey as "are" or "lean" Republican. "Are" being "registered" and "lean" being "tend towards." Does not differentiate whether they are registered and never vote or anything else. They vote in approximately that manner, yes, but not exactly, but it's not a difference that matters to our current point except it's worth nothing you've matter-of-factly misinterpreted another one of your own sources.
This is different than the levels of support of black voters, which you used as the proof that Republicans are racist. If this is your level of proof, you have to also live with the consequences that it means the Democrats are misandrist and anti-parent because of equally significant voting trends as with women.
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I think words and actions are distinct things. Pandering to 50% of thr population that are staunch supporters of human right regression (abortion rights for example) does not mean one is a fascist. It means he understands that 50% of the people will vote for you if you oppose abortion. That's half the population simply not being ready to go ahead with extending human rights. It's very sad that it's such a huge % of people, as well as them latching on to the immigration issue, but calling this fascism is just not where I'm seeing it go at the moment.
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United States24813 Posts
For those following the ten commandments in schools case in Louisiana: https://www.katc.com/news/fifth-circuit-court-allows-ten-commandments-posters-in-most-louisiana-schools
Basically, the fifth circuit court has repealed an order from the lower court that would have fully blocked (temporarily) implementation of the law requiring posting of the ten commandments in all classrooms. The order delaying implementation is still in effect for the five school districts that brought up the suit. In addition, compliance for the rest of the State remains voluntary while the court case is not fully settled.
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On November 17 2024 23:26 micronesia wrote:For those following the ten commandments in schools case in Louisiana: https://www.katc.com/news/fifth-circuit-court-allows-ten-commandments-posters-in-most-louisiana-schoolsBasically, the fifth circuit court has repealed an order from the lower court that would have fully blocked (temporarily) implementation of the law requiring posting of the ten commandments in all classrooms. The order delaying implementation is still in effect for the five school districts that brought up the suit. In addition, compliance for the rest of the State remains voluntary while the court case is not fully settled.
That whole situation is messed up. Public schools shouldn't be pushing any specific religious agenda or theocratic belief.
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On November 17 2024 23:26 micronesia wrote:For those following the ten commandments in schools case in Louisiana: https://www.katc.com/news/fifth-circuit-court-allows-ten-commandments-posters-in-most-louisiana-schoolsBasically, the fifth circuit court has repealed an order from the lower court that would have fully blocked (temporarily) implementation of the law requiring posting of the ten commandments in all classrooms. The order delaying implementation is still in effect for the five school districts that brought up the suit. In addition, compliance for the rest of the State remains voluntary while the court case is not fully settled. Republicans do not believe in separation of church and state.
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On November 17 2024 23:14 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 20:40 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 02:09 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:05 oBlade wrote:My mistake, 51/44, it's even closer than I thought. Yeah, across all women. If you narrow down by age, suddenly everything changes. Shocker: old women don't care about young women. They're selfish. Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were self less though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something. Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you. Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore. Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner. The female population leans slightly Democrat according to your own source. 51/44. Lean there being the opposite of overwhelming. 51/44 is not overwhelming. It's whelming. People who identify in a survey as "are" or "lean" Republican. "Are" being "registered" and "lean" being "tend towards." Does not differentiate whether they are registered and never vote or anything else. They vote in approximately that manner, yes, but not exactly, but it's not a difference that matters to our current point except it's worth nothing you've matter-of-factly misinterpreted another one of your own sources. This is different than the levels of support of black voters, which you used as the proof that Republicans are racist. If this is your level of proof, you have to also live with the consequences that it means the Democrats are misandrist and anti-parent because of equally significant voting trends as with women.
Women lean Democrat overall. Old women and married women lean more Republican, not Democrat. That means most women who are not young and who are married are, by voting for Trump, screwing over women who are young and who are not married.
Is this complicated math for you or something? It's extremely easy to understand for anyone who can read a poll halfway decently and here you are acting as if we're doing peak level algebra or something.
Look at the numbers ffs. Young, unmarried women are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion. They're around 75% in favor of it. That means older demographics who are less likely to support abortion are screwing them over. There's no debating this. If a demographic is only 50% in favor of something that another demographic is 75% in favor of, then 1/2 of one demographic is screwing over 3/4 of another demographic. You can't be serious if you reject this logic, it's extremely simplistic and logical and you're pretending the conclusion is something else.
Stop arguing about something that is as clear as 2+2=4. You're making yourself look like a complete jerk.
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On November 17 2024 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
I think words and actions are distinct things. Pandering to 50% of thr population that are staunch supporters of human right regression (abortion rights for example) does not mean one is a fascist. It means he understands that 50% of the people will vote for you if you oppose abortion. That's half the population simply not being ready to go ahead with extending human rights. It's very sad that it's such a huge % of people, as well as them latching on to the immigration issue, but calling this fascism is just not where I'm seeing it go at the moment.
The majority of Americans supports abortion rights. And for women that majority is even bigger. It's not 50%, get this number out of your head.
Here's a gallup poll, look at the numbers.
"According to Gallup's May 2024 update on Americans' abortion views, 35% believe abortion should be legal "under any circumstances," 50% say it should be legal “only under certain circumstances,” and 12% say it should be “illegal in all circumstances.” "
35% want all abortion to be legal and 50% want it to be legal under some circumstances. That's 85% total.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx
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On November 18 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 23:14 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 20:40 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 02:09 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:05 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
My mistake, 51/44, it's even closer than I thought. Yeah, across all women. If you narrow down by age, suddenly everything changes. Shocker: old women don't care about young women. They're selfish. Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were self less though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something. Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you. Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore. Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner. The female population leans slightly Democrat according to your own source. 51/44. Lean there being the opposite of overwhelming. 51/44 is not overwhelming. It's whelming. People who identify in a survey as "are" or "lean" Republican. "Are" being "registered" and "lean" being "tend towards." Does not differentiate whether they are registered and never vote or anything else. They vote in approximately that manner, yes, but not exactly, but it's not a difference that matters to our current point except it's worth nothing you've matter-of-factly misinterpreted another one of your own sources. This is different than the levels of support of black voters, which you used as the proof that Republicans are racist. If this is your level of proof, you have to also live with the consequences that it means the Democrats are misandrist and anti-parent because of equally significant voting trends as with women. Women lean Democrat overall. Old women and married women lean more Republican, not Democrat. That means most women who are not young and who are married are, by voting for Trump, screwing over women who are young and who are not married. Is this complicated math for you or something? It's extremely easy to understand for anyone who can read a poll halfway decently and here you are acting as if we're doing peak level algebra or something. Look at the numbers ffs. Young, unmarried women are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion. They're around 75% in favor of it. That means older demographics who are less likely to support abortion are screwing them over. There's no debating this. If a demographic is only 50% in favor of something that another demographic is 75% in favor of, then 1/2 of one demographic is screwing over 3/4 of another demographic. You can't be serious if you reject this logic, it's extremely simplistic and logical and you're pretending the conclusion is something else. Stop arguing about something that is as clear as 2+2=4. You're making yourself look like a complete jerk.
Similarly men must be voting for Republicans because Democrats are screwing them over, especially older men and fathers.
And young women are screwing over parents, mothers, and old women by not voting for what benefits them.
Either all of the above is true, or your caricature of the world as "women = abortion = Democrats; Republicans = sexist" was baseless to begin with.
On November 18 2024 00:20 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
I think words and actions are distinct things. Pandering to 50% of thr population that are staunch supporters of human right regression (abortion rights for example) does not mean one is a fascist. It means he understands that 50% of the people will vote for you if you oppose abortion. That's half the population simply not being ready to go ahead with extending human rights. It's very sad that it's such a huge % of people, as well as them latching on to the immigration issue, but calling this fascism is just not where I'm seeing it go at the moment. The majority of Americans supports abortion rights. And for women that majority is even bigger. It's not 50%, get this number out of your head. Here's a gallup poll, look at the numbers. "According to Gallup's May 2024 update on Americans' abortion views, 35% believe abortion should be legal "under any circumstances," 50% say it should be legal “only under certain circumstances,” and 12% say it should be “illegal in all circumstances.” " 35% want all abortion to be legal and 50% want it to be legal under some circumstances. That's 85% total. https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx
The 50% who want it to be legal in some cases also want it to be illegal in some cases.
If you want to split the difference you say it's 25% and give it an approval of 60% and disapproval of 37%.
Otherwise you get approval of 85% and disapproval of 62% which adds up to 147%. Math is even tougher than you thought.
Better to just use Gallup's actual expanded numbers instead.
A follow-up question asked of those taking the middle position finds 16% wanting abortion to be legal under most circumstances, while 33% favor it in only a few circumstances. The result is 51% of U.S adults who favor expansive abortion rights (legal in all or most cases) and 45% who favor more restrictive rights (legal in only a few or no cases).
Continuing a shift that began in May 2022, after a leaked draft copy of the Dobbs opinion was reported in the news, Gallup's 2024 abortion update finds more Americans continuing to self-identify as "pro-choice" (54%) rather than "pro-life" (41%) on abortion.
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On November 18 2024 00:23 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 23:14 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 20:40 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 02:09 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, across all women. If you narrow down by age, suddenly everything changes. Shocker: old women don't care about young women. They're selfish. Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were self less though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something. Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you. Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore. Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner. The female population leans slightly Democrat according to your own source. 51/44. Lean there being the opposite of overwhelming. 51/44 is not overwhelming. It's whelming. People who identify in a survey as "are" or "lean" Republican. "Are" being "registered" and "lean" being "tend towards." Does not differentiate whether they are registered and never vote or anything else. They vote in approximately that manner, yes, but not exactly, but it's not a difference that matters to our current point except it's worth nothing you've matter-of-factly misinterpreted another one of your own sources. This is different than the levels of support of black voters, which you used as the proof that Republicans are racist. If this is your level of proof, you have to also live with the consequences that it means the Democrats are misandrist and anti-parent because of equally significant voting trends as with women. Women lean Democrat overall. Old women and married women lean more Republican, not Democrat. That means most women who are not young and who are married are, by voting for Trump, screwing over women who are young and who are not married. Is this complicated math for you or something? It's extremely easy to understand for anyone who can read a poll halfway decently and here you are acting as if we're doing peak level algebra or something. Look at the numbers ffs. Young, unmarried women are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion. They're around 75% in favor of it. That means older demographics who are less likely to support abortion are screwing them over. There's no debating this. If a demographic is only 50% in favor of something that another demographic is 75% in favor of, then 1/2 of one demographic is screwing over 3/4 of another demographic. You can't be serious if you reject this logic, it's extremely simplistic and logical and you're pretending the conclusion is something else. Stop arguing about something that is as clear as 2+2=4. You're making yourself look like a complete jerk. Similarly men must be voting for Republicans because Democrats are screwing them over, especially older men and fathers. And young women are screwing over parents, mothers, and old women by not voting for what benefits them. Either all of the above is true, or your caricature of the world as "women = abortion = Democrats; Republicans = sexist" was baseless to begin with. Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 00:20 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
I think words and actions are distinct things. Pandering to 50% of thr population that are staunch supporters of human right regression (abortion rights for example) does not mean one is a fascist. It means he understands that 50% of the people will vote for you if you oppose abortion. That's half the population simply not being ready to go ahead with extending human rights. It's very sad that it's such a huge % of people, as well as them latching on to the immigration issue, but calling this fascism is just not where I'm seeing it go at the moment. The majority of Americans supports abortion rights. And for women that majority is even bigger. It's not 50%, get this number out of your head. Here's a gallup poll, look at the numbers. "According to Gallup's May 2024 update on Americans' abortion views, 35% believe abortion should be legal "under any circumstances," 50% say it should be legal “only under certain circumstances,” and 12% say it should be “illegal in all circumstances.” " 35% want all abortion to be legal and 50% want it to be legal under some circumstances. That's 85% total. https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx The 50% who want it to be legal in some cases also want it to be illegal in some cases. If you want to split the difference you say it's 25% and give it an approval of 60% and disapproval of 37%. Otherwise you get approval of 85% and disapproval of 62% which adds up to 147%. Math is even tougher than you thought. Better to just use Gallup's actual expanded numbers instead. Show nested quote +A follow-up question asked of those taking the middle position finds 16% wanting abortion to be legal under most circumstances, while 33% favor it in only a few circumstances. The result is 51% of U.S adults who favor expansive abortion rights (legal in all or most cases) and 45% who favor more restrictive rights (legal in only a few or no cases). Show nested quote +Continuing a shift that began in May 2022, after a leaked draft copy of the Dobbs opinion was reported in the news, Gallup's 2024 abortion update finds more Americans continuing to self-identify as "pro-choice" (54%) rather than "pro-life" (41%) on abortion.
Lazy as hell. No men have lost an equivalent to women's abortion rights. Or have they? Provide an example.
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On November 18 2024 00:33 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 00:23 oBlade wrote:On November 18 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 23:14 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 20:40 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 02:25 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
Good let's keep going and get that mask all the way off. Can you give us some more detail about how bad old women are in order to save us from sexism? The old women are selfish because they don't copy young women's voting trend right - shouldn't the 18-29-year-olds vote the same way as old people if they were selfless though? How can we account for that? Looks like the 18-29-year-old trend is selfishness too unless I missed something.
Here's another interesting group. Your data says here parents go basically 10 points further towards Republicans than not. What could be a more selfish segment of society than parents? What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that? But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women. Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you. Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore. Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner. The female population leans slightly Democrat according to your own source. 51/44. Lean there being the opposite of overwhelming. 51/44 is not overwhelming. It's whelming. People who identify in a survey as "are" or "lean" Republican. "Are" being "registered" and "lean" being "tend towards." Does not differentiate whether they are registered and never vote or anything else. They vote in approximately that manner, yes, but not exactly, but it's not a difference that matters to our current point except it's worth nothing you've matter-of-factly misinterpreted another one of your own sources. This is different than the levels of support of black voters, which you used as the proof that Republicans are racist. If this is your level of proof, you have to also live with the consequences that it means the Democrats are misandrist and anti-parent because of equally significant voting trends as with women. Women lean Democrat overall. Old women and married women lean more Republican, not Democrat. That means most women who are not young and who are married are, by voting for Trump, screwing over women who are young and who are not married. Is this complicated math for you or something? It's extremely easy to understand for anyone who can read a poll halfway decently and here you are acting as if we're doing peak level algebra or something. Look at the numbers ffs. Young, unmarried women are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion. They're around 75% in favor of it. That means older demographics who are less likely to support abortion are screwing them over. There's no debating this. If a demographic is only 50% in favor of something that another demographic is 75% in favor of, then 1/2 of one demographic is screwing over 3/4 of another demographic. You can't be serious if you reject this logic, it's extremely simplistic and logical and you're pretending the conclusion is something else. Stop arguing about something that is as clear as 2+2=4. You're making yourself look like a complete jerk. Similarly men must be voting for Republicans because Democrats are screwing them over, especially older men and fathers. And young women are screwing over parents, mothers, and old women by not voting for what benefits them. Either all of the above is true, or your caricature of the world as "women = abortion = Democrats; Republicans = sexist" was baseless to begin with. On November 18 2024 00:20 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
I think words and actions are distinct things. Pandering to 50% of thr population that are staunch supporters of human right regression (abortion rights for example) does not mean one is a fascist. It means he understands that 50% of the people will vote for you if you oppose abortion. That's half the population simply not being ready to go ahead with extending human rights. It's very sad that it's such a huge % of people, as well as them latching on to the immigration issue, but calling this fascism is just not where I'm seeing it go at the moment. The majority of Americans supports abortion rights. And for women that majority is even bigger. It's not 50%, get this number out of your head. Here's a gallup poll, look at the numbers. "According to Gallup's May 2024 update on Americans' abortion views, 35% believe abortion should be legal "under any circumstances," 50% say it should be legal “only under certain circumstances,” and 12% say it should be “illegal in all circumstances.” " 35% want all abortion to be legal and 50% want it to be legal under some circumstances. That's 85% total. https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx The 50% who want it to be legal in some cases also want it to be illegal in some cases. If you want to split the difference you say it's 25% and give it an approval of 60% and disapproval of 37%. Otherwise you get approval of 85% and disapproval of 62% which adds up to 147%. Math is even tougher than you thought. Better to just use Gallup's actual expanded numbers instead. A follow-up question asked of those taking the middle position finds 16% wanting abortion to be legal under most circumstances, while 33% favor it in only a few circumstances. The result is 51% of U.S adults who favor expansive abortion rights (legal in all or most cases) and 45% who favor more restrictive rights (legal in only a few or no cases). Continuing a shift that began in May 2022, after a leaked draft copy of the Dobbs opinion was reported in the news, Gallup's 2024 abortion update finds more Americans continuing to self-identify as "pro-choice" (54%) rather than "pro-life" (41%) on abortion. Lazy as hell. No men have lost an equivalent to women's abortion rights. Or have they? Provide an example.
You wouldn't have to have lost a right that isn't in the constitution granted by a court to be "screwed over." You are again assigning an a priori supervalue to young women's votes for God knows what reason, concluding they are the result of sexism, then ignoring the exact same democratically equivalent votes of every other group, the interpretation of which inconveniences your conclusion. At the same time you manage to also ignore the votes of actual woman who once again just came out and proved they are not voting on sexism lines, and they have a hell of a lot more issues than "abortion rights" that they consider, and also that they themselves don't even view the complex issue of abortion through your bullshit lens of "Blue = 3trimester free babykill and Red = Incestrape handmaid baby factory" either.
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On November 18 2024 00:48 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 00:33 Magic Powers wrote:On November 18 2024 00:23 oBlade wrote:On November 18 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 23:14 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 20:40 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 18:00 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 07:31 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 05:22 oBlade wrote:On November 17 2024 05:00 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
What are you talking about? Look at the statistics, it's very clear that young women get screwed over by the older generations of women. It's in the infographic, or do you wanna deny that?
But lets instead use an anecdotal example of this phenomenon instead of relying entirely on statistics. Do you know who Blair White is? She's a transgender woman who is, guess what, conservative. She supports Republicans and she supports legislation banning transitioning for all young people. She's a prime example of an older generation (in her case not even that old) fucking things up for the younger generation. This is a real thing! Evidently this happens even with transgender people, so it's not incredibly hard to understand that it's also a thing that happens among women.
Get your head out of the gutter. Women are not a hive mind, they don't all support each other. They absolutely do screw things up for one another if their ideology demands it. In order for that to be "clear" I'd have to be proceeding from the unproven tacit assumption that not voting Democrat constitutes "screwing over." Again I will attempt to simplify things on the offchance it will help you will see the basic issue. You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish. I don't think I'm being uncharitable if I take that to mean they are voting for what's good for them, old women, rather than what's good for other people (young women) - in your framework. Presumably young women are also being selfish, because they are voting for what's good for them, young women. If they were selfless, they would be voting Republican, because that would help old women, who are different than young women. Right? Don't think I've contradicted you. 1) Why the a priori veneration of only young women's selfishness and demonization of only old women's selfishness? 2) What's good for old women will also be good for young women, because young women generally become old women. What's good for young women will never benefit old women. 3) Parents lean Republican because of their future young men and women. Did you want to take the opportunity to shit on them also, or not? I don't personally find parents selfish but there's no reason for you not to take up that data point and explain it. Taking away women's abortion rights does not constitute screwing them over? Are you sure about that? "You said in a sexist tirade that old women are selfish." If you think you're the one being anti-sexist here, you have a lot of self-reflection to do. Abortion rights are fundamental. You're trying to flip the morality on its head because you know exactly that your position is the unpopular one. The majority of Americans support abortion rights. My position is that women aren't sexist just because of what political party they lean slightly towards or against. I don't think that's unpopular. If you want to go with "the side with slightly more support is unassailable justice and moral purity" it's going to end in a weird spot for you. Yeah no, that was a justifiable argument before Republicans turned completely fascist with Trump. Not anymore. Honestly wtf is this logic even. "They only lean towards abortion rights, it's not like they're fully committed to it." No, wrong. This is an either-or position. Either you support abortion rights or you don't, there's no such thing as a "lean". Either you vote for Trump or you don't. If you "lean" Republican but you don't end up voting Republican, then your "lean" means nothing. You're arguing that the whole poll is useless. That is terrible argumentation, because we know it represents men's and women's actual voting tendencies very accurately. They have voted in exactly this manner. The female population leans slightly Democrat according to your own source. 51/44. Lean there being the opposite of overwhelming. 51/44 is not overwhelming. It's whelming. People who identify in a survey as "are" or "lean" Republican. "Are" being "registered" and "lean" being "tend towards." Does not differentiate whether they are registered and never vote or anything else. They vote in approximately that manner, yes, but not exactly, but it's not a difference that matters to our current point except it's worth nothing you've matter-of-factly misinterpreted another one of your own sources. This is different than the levels of support of black voters, which you used as the proof that Republicans are racist. If this is your level of proof, you have to also live with the consequences that it means the Democrats are misandrist and anti-parent because of equally significant voting trends as with women. Women lean Democrat overall. Old women and married women lean more Republican, not Democrat. That means most women who are not young and who are married are, by voting for Trump, screwing over women who are young and who are not married. Is this complicated math for you or something? It's extremely easy to understand for anyone who can read a poll halfway decently and here you are acting as if we're doing peak level algebra or something. Look at the numbers ffs. Young, unmarried women are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion. They're around 75% in favor of it. That means older demographics who are less likely to support abortion are screwing them over. There's no debating this. If a demographic is only 50% in favor of something that another demographic is 75% in favor of, then 1/2 of one demographic is screwing over 3/4 of another demographic. You can't be serious if you reject this logic, it's extremely simplistic and logical and you're pretending the conclusion is something else. Stop arguing about something that is as clear as 2+2=4. You're making yourself look like a complete jerk. Similarly men must be voting for Republicans because Democrats are screwing them over, especially older men and fathers. And young women are screwing over parents, mothers, and old women by not voting for what benefits them. Either all of the above is true, or your caricature of the world as "women = abortion = Democrats; Republicans = sexist" was baseless to begin with. On November 18 2024 00:20 Magic Powers wrote:On November 17 2024 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
I think words and actions are distinct things. Pandering to 50% of thr population that are staunch supporters of human right regression (abortion rights for example) does not mean one is a fascist. It means he understands that 50% of the people will vote for you if you oppose abortion. That's half the population simply not being ready to go ahead with extending human rights. It's very sad that it's such a huge % of people, as well as them latching on to the immigration issue, but calling this fascism is just not where I'm seeing it go at the moment. The majority of Americans supports abortion rights. And for women that majority is even bigger. It's not 50%, get this number out of your head. Here's a gallup poll, look at the numbers. "According to Gallup's May 2024 update on Americans' abortion views, 35% believe abortion should be legal "under any circumstances," 50% say it should be legal “only under certain circumstances,” and 12% say it should be “illegal in all circumstances.” " 35% want all abortion to be legal and 50% want it to be legal under some circumstances. That's 85% total. https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx The 50% who want it to be legal in some cases also want it to be illegal in some cases. If you want to split the difference you say it's 25% and give it an approval of 60% and disapproval of 37%. Otherwise you get approval of 85% and disapproval of 62% which adds up to 147%. Math is even tougher than you thought. Better to just use Gallup's actual expanded numbers instead. A follow-up question asked of those taking the middle position finds 16% wanting abortion to be legal under most circumstances, while 33% favor it in only a few circumstances. The result is 51% of U.S adults who favor expansive abortion rights (legal in all or most cases) and 45% who favor more restrictive rights (legal in only a few or no cases). Continuing a shift that began in May 2022, after a leaked draft copy of the Dobbs opinion was reported in the news, Gallup's 2024 abortion update finds more Americans continuing to self-identify as "pro-choice" (54%) rather than "pro-life" (41%) on abortion. Lazy as hell. No men have lost an equivalent to women's abortion rights. Or have they? Provide an example. You wouldn't have to have lost a right that isn't in the constitution granted by a court to be "screwed over." You are again assigning an a priori supervalue to young women's votes for God knows what reason, concluding they are the result of sexism, then ignoring the exact same democratically equivalent votes of every other group, the interpretation of which inconveniences your conclusion. At the same time you manage to also ignore the votes of actual woman who once again just came out and proved they are not voting on sexism lines, and they have a hell of a lot more issues than "abortion rights" that they consider, and also that they themselves don't even view the complex issue of abortion through your bullshit lens of "Blue = 3trimester free babykill and Red = Incestrape handmaid baby factory" either.
I'm done talking to you. Just stay in your fascist bubble and be confused for the rest of your life why people hate you.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On November 17 2024 22:42 Uldridge wrote:
I'm not putting my head into anything. There's huge difference between Trump and Hitler. Care to know what that is? Hitler was and had basically all the things Trump isnt't and doens't have. He couldn't pull off fascism even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. We have multiple things on our side, one of them is recorded history. We know entrenched institutions will have to start functioning radically different for fascism to work. We also know that opposing parties need to be gotten rid of because they are part of the institutions that can put a stop to all the bullshit fascists are trying to pull. Also, the common enemy becomes a shared experience under which the nation unites to start getting rid of that enemy - actually I don't really know how many Germans became under the umbrella if the nation socialistic party.
Call me when Clinton mysteriously falls out of a window or something.
Few people here at least equate directly Trump and Hitler, just that Trump has shown willingness to use some of the Fascist playbook. In ways than can be legitimately concerning.
There are plenty of graduations between democracy working close to intended and somewhat reflective of popular sentiment, it being dysfunctional in some facets, but ultimately functional, all the way up to a Hitler.
Fascism doesn’t just turn up at your door one day fully fledged announcing what it is. And whatever a US Fascism would look like would be quite different in ways too, there’s usually some quite pronounced differences depending on culture, history and national mythos.
I imagine a US version would be traditional US exceptionalism but on steroids.
It’s still possible to simultaneously have some concerns, but ultimately think US culture and institutions will serve as a bulwark against the worst impulses of a Trump. He does clearly have certain impulses.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On November 17 2024 23:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 23:26 micronesia wrote:For those following the ten commandments in schools case in Louisiana: https://www.katc.com/news/fifth-circuit-court-allows-ten-commandments-posters-in-most-louisiana-schoolsBasically, the fifth circuit court has repealed an order from the lower court that would have fully blocked (temporarily) implementation of the law requiring posting of the ten commandments in all classrooms. The order delaying implementation is still in effect for the five school districts that brought up the suit. In addition, compliance for the rest of the State remains voluntary while the court case is not fully settled. That whole situation is messed up. Public schools shouldn't be pushing any specific religious agenda or theocratic belief.
I’m very much a secular guy rather than an anti-religious guy, and this seems to shit all over that.
If a privately funded Catholic school wants to display things that reflect that, I’ve no innate problem there. It’s quite another to mandate it in public schools in such a manner.
As well as being counter to the spirit of principles upon which the state was founded. The very same principles those supportive of this will frequently evoke in other domain.
It’s well, bollocks really.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
Ooh I just learned about H.R 9495.
What a bill that is.
If you want totalitarian government in the US this is an absolutely huge step.
Its been defeated once but is definitely getting resurrected.
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