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On November 16 2024 19:37 BlackJack wrote: When Dems finish blaming the election loss on racism and sexism maybe they will get around to looking in the mirror
I can't think of a single person in this thread who blames the election loss on racism and sexism, nor can I think of a single person in this thread who things the Democrats are completely blameless in Harris's loss to Trump. Or are you just criticizing the people in Bill Maher's video?
Perhaps you were too stunned on election night but there were many posts blaming the election result on Kamala not being a white man
Would you mind finding some posts to support your claim? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I honestly don't recall "many posts blaming the election result on Kamala not being a white man".
On November 06 2024 13:28 Zambrah wrote: You'd imagine something like losing their civil rights would make people unhappy with the people who took away their civil rights, can't really blame someone for thinking that.
It is certainly becoming clear that American's don't actually value their civil rights in almost any capacity, though.
Not when the alternative is a black woman.
All the Biden haters are completely out of touch with the average American voter. Weekend at Biden's would have done better (it literally can't have done worse). Just run the oldest whitest man you can fucking find. It's not hard. Trump is the oldest man to ever be elected president.
For a black candidate, at least we can point to Obama as having got elected. Women still have a 0% success rate, probably due in part to ignorance about sex and gender in the U.S. That's not to say Kamala lost because she was a woman, just that it was more likely to hurt her chances than help them.
I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do.
On November 16 2024 19:37 BlackJack wrote: When Dems finish blaming the election loss on racism and sexism maybe they will get around to looking in the mirror
I don't get criticising the far left on this one. The far left was given jack squat. They generally held their nose and voted Harris anyway. Some didn't, but that isn't what cost the Dems the elections. It was their brain-dead shift to the center (right). Somehow aligning with Dick Cheney was seen as the smarter move than aligning with Bernie Sanders. This didn't crush enthusiasm on the far left (I mean, they were already thoroughly unenthused), it crushed enthusiasm on the center left. The working class voted for Trump, because they stupidly believed he is the "anti-establishment" vote. The center left stayed home because they were disillusioned. The result was a landslide victory for Trump.
And yes, social progressive policy is probably not very popular. But it was dangling at the bottom of what people cared about in the election. It's media outlets that appear to care about it most, probably because it gets twits like you all riled up to repeat it.
It’s remarkable that anyone would think anything Dick Cheney does in 2024 is relevant to anything. Your theory is ridiculous.
Unsurprisingly you missed the point. Try to keep up.
Nobody thinks Dick Cheney is relevant. He wasn't the problem. Nobody was going to move their vote because Dick Cheney said so. That is part of the problem, when Harris (and Democrats at large) go on stage cheering that even Dick Cheney endorsed her. People on the right have moved on and don't give a shit what Dick Cheney said. People on the left remember he was the asshole warhawk pushing for that war in Iraq so his oil company would get richer. Fuck that shit, and if Harris is jumping into bed with that kinda dickhead, I'll just peace out of this election: there's nobody for me to vote for.
Somehow the Democrats thought touting around Dick Cheney was going to win them more votes from center-right undecideds than lose them votes on the center-left. They had the same idea about talking up Israel's right to self-defence and a few other points that are unpopular on the center-left.
There's probably plenty of people outside of the 72m who voted for Trump who could've been motivated to vote for Harris, but her campaign failed to reach them. Sexism and racism may be a part of that. There's a depressing number of stories from phone bank volunteers about how hard it was to talk to people about the idea of a female president. Maybe they didn't have the right script. But seeing as the primary point people apparently voted on was the economy, Harris did a depressingly bad job of getting her plan out there. Meanwhile Trump hammered her with her association to the Biden administration and the way the economy *feels* bad. And it does. Economic metrics showing everything is amazing are irrelevant if they measure things nobody cares about. Why does Cliff care about the Dow Jones when his student loans for a crummy middle tier college are still dangling over his head like Damocles' sword, his one-bedroom rental flat costs more and more every year and he can't afford to ever take sick leave, let alone actual medical care on his supremely shit health insurance.
Sure, things haven't gotten worse since the 90s or so, but things definitely haven't gotten better either. And here is Harris with some milquetoast promises... what did she do for Cliff in the last 4 years? (And yes, the answer is lots of things, but it (1) wasn't enough and (2) isn't adequately visible to Cliff) Cliff should be the bread and butter of your Democrat voting base. Instead Cliff voted for Trump or stayed at home. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the war on woke.
Btw this isn’t some “BJ’s anti-woke” theory for why the Dems lost so bad. Bill Maher is a life long liberal that gave $1 million to Obama and was sued by Trump for implying his father was an orangutan. Here’s another video with the same theory
It features a piece by Maureen Dowd, a liberal NYT writer. She also quotes Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s chief of staff, and James Carville, legendary Dem strategist and multiple other Dem politicians and strategists. It’s agreed with by Joe “this is the best version of Biden” Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, co-host of morning Joe and Al Sharpton.
It’s obviously the prevailing theory is that the Dems have alienated a lot of people by catering to white college educated progressives. Of course there’s other theories that the problem was they tried to hard to go center and not far enough left.
On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote: I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do.
Biden got 81 million, Harris got 74 million, Hillary got 65 million. Blumpf's popular vote went up every single time. That means it's Democrats not voting for women. By the data, a white woman candidate is therefore the most discriminated against by Democratic voters.
On November 16 2024 19:37 BlackJack wrote: When Dems finish blaming the election loss on racism and sexism maybe they will get around to looking in the mirror
I can't think of a single person in this thread who blames the election loss on racism and sexism, nor can I think of a single person in this thread who things the Democrats are completely blameless in Harris's loss to Trump. Or are you just criticizing the people in Bill Maher's video?
Perhaps you were too stunned on election night but there were many posts blaming the election result on Kamala not being a white man
Would you mind finding some posts to support your claim? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I honestly don't recall "many posts blaming the election result on Kamala not being a white man".
On November 06 2024 13:28 Zambrah wrote: You'd imagine something like losing their civil rights would make people unhappy with the people who took away their civil rights, can't really blame someone for thinking that.
It is certainly becoming clear that American's don't actually value their civil rights in almost any capacity, though.
Not when the alternative is a black woman.
All the Biden haters are completely out of touch with the average American voter. Weekend at Biden's would have done better (it literally can't have done worse). Just run the oldest whitest man you can fucking find. It's not hard. Trump is the oldest man to ever be elected president.
On November 16 2024 19:37 BlackJack wrote: When Dems finish blaming the election loss on racism and sexism maybe they will get around to looking in the mirror
I don't get criticising the far left on this one. The far left was given jack squat. They generally held their nose and voted Harris anyway. Some didn't, but that isn't what cost the Dems the elections. It was their brain-dead shift to the center (right). Somehow aligning with Dick Cheney was seen as the smarter move than aligning with Bernie Sanders. This didn't crush enthusiasm on the far left (I mean, they were already thoroughly unenthused), it crushed enthusiasm on the center left. The working class voted for Trump, because they stupidly believed he is the "anti-establishment" vote. The center left stayed home because they were disillusioned. The result was a landslide victory for Trump.
And yes, social progressive policy is probably not very popular. But it was dangling at the bottom of what people cared about in the election. It's media outlets that appear to care about it most, probably because it gets twits like you all riled up to repeat it.
It’s remarkable that anyone would think anything Dick Cheney does in 2024 is relevant to anything. Your theory is ridiculous.
Unsurprisingly you missed the point. Try to keep up.
Nobody thinks Dick Cheney is relevant. He wasn't the problem. Nobody was going to move their vote because Dick Cheney said so. That is part of the problem, when Harris (and Democrats at large) go on stage cheering that even Dick Cheney endorsed her. People on the right have moved on and don't give a shit what Dick Cheney said. People on the left remember he was the asshole warhawk pushing for that war in Iraq so his oil company would get richer. Fuck that shit, and if Harris is jumping into bed with that kinda dickhead, I'll just peace out of this election: there's nobody for me to vote for.
Somehow the Democrats thought touting around Dick Cheney was going to win them more votes from center-right undecideds than lose them votes on the center-left. They had the same idea about talking up Israel's right to self-defence and a few other points that are unpopular on the center-left.
There's probably plenty of people outside of the 72m who voted for Trump who could've been motivated to vote for Harris, but her campaign failed to reach them. Sexism and racism may be a part of that. There's a depressing number of stories from phone bank volunteers about how hard it was to talk to people about the idea of a female president. Maybe they didn't have the right script. But seeing as the primary point people apparently voted on was the economy, Harris did a depressingly bad job of getting her plan out there. Meanwhile Trump hammered her with her association to the Biden administration and the way the economy *feels* bad. And it does. Economic metrics showing everything is amazing are irrelevant if they measure things nobody cares about. Why does Cliff care about the Dow Jones when his student loans for a crummy middle tier college are still dangling over his head like Damocles' sword, his one-bedroom rental flat costs more and more every year and he can't afford to ever take sick leave, let alone actual medical care on his supremely shit health insurance.
Sure, things haven't gotten worse since the 90s or so, but things definitely haven't gotten better either. And here is Harris with some milquetoast promises... what did she do for Cliff in the last 4 years? (And yes, the answer is lots of things, but it (1) wasn't enough and (2) isn't adequately visible to Cliff) Cliff should be the bread and butter of your Democrat voting base. Instead Cliff voted for Trump or stayed at home. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the war on woke.
Nonsense. Obviously immigration/economy were most important issues for voters. But if you think Dick Cheney had more of an impact on this election than wokeism you are seriously fooling yourself. Trumps most effective ad was the one about Kamala Harris wanting to use tax dollars to pay for sex change operations for illegal immigrants.
On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote: I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do.
Biden got 81 million, Harris got 74 million, Hillary got 65 million. Blumpf's popular vote went up every single time. That means it's Democrats not voting for women. By the data, a white woman candidate is therefore the most discriminated against by Democratic voters.
I love how you just exempt all Republican voters from this perspective lol. Trump voters, by definition, didn't vote for women in 2016 or 2024. Good job excusing the conservatives, who are far, far, far more likely to "not vote for a woman". I guess Republican sexism is so obvious and axiomatic that you think it makes sense to go with the "what about Democrats" argument.
On November 16 2024 22:08 micronesia wrote: For a black candidate, at least we can point to Obama as having got elected. Women still have a 0% success rate, probably due in part to ignorance about sex and gender in the U.S. That's not to say Kamala lost because she was a woman, just that it was more likely to hurt her chances than help them.
Obama was an outstanding candidate rather than merely decent, and perhaps that’s instructive. You can punch through barriers but you’ve got to be bloody good
Not a comment in either direction on his governance or values, but him as a politician and communicator. For all the problems the Dems are having right now, at the Presidential election level they’re sorely missing anyone nearly as good.
I personally admire, and politically despise Margaret Thatcher, chick had some chops. I wouldn’t consider the UK as especially less sexist than the US, it’s doable, it’s just harder as a woman.
I think the thing with Thatcher is you might have thought she’s an arsehole, but you believed what she said she believed. She governed accordingly.
Clinton and Harris, less so.
Values aside again, I think Clinton would have been a damn competent President, but was perhaps too associated with the status quo. Actually met the lass at the tail end of the Northern Irish peace process when she was First Lady, have a pack of Presidential MnMs with Bill’s signature to this day! We were one of the first schools to really push integrating Protestant and Catholics over here so we met quite a lot of political figures, and hey we were all kids but we actually all quite liked her. We fucking loved Mo Mowlam (RIP), but not all of our political visitors.
Whatever made her likeable enough to enthuse a group of 7/8 year old Northern Irish kids who knew nought about politics seemed to subsequently desert her.
Harris, for me had some decent policies, but didn’t feel super sincere. Maybe it’s unfair. I always got the impression she was proposing things so she could be President, rather than wanting to be President so she could do the things she would like to see.
On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote: I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do.
Biden got 81 million, Harris got 74 million, Hillary got 65 million. Blumpf's popular vote went up every single time. That means it's Democrats not voting for women. By the data, a white woman candidate is therefore the most discriminated against by Democratic voters.
I love how you just exempt all Republican voters from this perspective lol. Trump voters, by definition, didn't vote for women in 2016 or 2024. Good job excusing the conservatives, who are far, far, far more likely to "not vote for a woman". I guess Republican sexism is so obvious and axiomatic that you think it makes sense to go with the "what about Democrats" argument.
Did you forget Nikki Haley existed? There are plenty of Trump voters that voted for a woman in 2024. In fact if Trump dropped dead earlier in 2024 the Republicans literally would have had an Indian American woman at the top of their ticket.
On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote: I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do.
Biden got 81 million, Harris got 74 million, Hillary got 65 million. Blumpf's popular vote went up every single time. That means it's Democrats not voting for women. By the data, a white woman candidate is therefore the most discriminated against by Democratic voters.
I love how you just exempt all Republican voters from this perspective lol. Trump voters, by definition, didn't vote for women in 2016 or 2024. Good job excusing the conservatives, who are far, far, far more likely to "not vote for a woman". I guess Republican sexism is so obvious and axiomatic that you think it makes sense to go with the "what about Democrats" argument.
Did you forget Nikki Haley existed? There are plenty of Trump voters that voted for a woman in 2024. In fact if Trump dropped dead earlier in 2024 the Republicans literally would have had an Indian American woman at the top of their ticket.
If my aunty had balls she’d be my uncle as we say over here
Earnest question, why do you spend so much time railing against wokeness versus currrent Republican platforms?
Is it because you’re in a bubble that is largely anti-Republican anyway so you feel there’s no point preaching to the converted, or do you think wokeness is actually worse than whatever this shitshow is?
On November 16 2024 22:14 Magic Powers wrote: I can see the argument that racism and sexism won Trump the vote - but that's because his voters support racism and sexism, not because Harris' voters support it. The argument should go the other way around. Biden being replaced by a white man wouldn't have won them the elections because Democrats don't vote based on race and gender. Republicans do.
Biden got 81 million, Harris got 74 million, Hillary got 65 million. Blumpf's popular vote went up every single time. That means it's Democrats not voting for women. By the data, a white woman candidate is therefore the most discriminated against by Democratic voters.
I love how you just exempt all Republican voters from this perspective lol. Trump voters, by definition, didn't vote for women in 2016 or 2024. Good job excusing the conservatives, who are far, far, far more likely to "not vote for a woman". I guess Republican sexism is so obvious and axiomatic that you think it makes sense to go with the "what about Democrats" argument.
On November 16 2024 22:37 oBlade wrote: Interesting theory but there wasn't a Republican woman on the ballot for them to sexistly vote for the opposite of what they believe in against.
Oh my god, you're so close to the point. Even BlackJack remembered that Nikki Haley ran in the primary.
We won't vote for women, so they never end up being our nominee, so we couldn't possibly be sexist.
To say nothing of the fact that Trump not only wasn't a woman, but rolled back women's rights and is a sex offender. He's the most anti-woman candidate that Republicans could have chosen.
Maybe everyone else is right that your posts are just jokes.
On November 16 2024 22:46 WombaT wrote: Earnest question, why do you spend so much time railing against wokeness versus currrent Republican platforms?
Is it because you’re in a bubble that is largely anti-Republican anyway so you feel there’s no point preaching to the converted, or do you think wokeness is actually worse than whatever this shitshow is?
Probably because I live in San Francisco Bay Area and somehow living in a world where Dems get free rein isn’t the utopia you imagine it would be
Also if Dems just got their shit together they could have trounced Trump and then I wouldn’t have to hear about him anymore
Also there’s already >90% voices here saying the same thing. Would I really be adding anything by telling the one pro-life poster on this forum that Republicans stance on abortion is batshit or something like that’s? If I were posting on a conservative forum then I would be shouting all my grievances with the Republican Party
On November 16 2024 22:16 micronesia wrote: You can't fairly split the voting population into just two groups like that. There are shades of gray. At best, you can identify trends.
Huh? Of course I can, there's plenty of evidence for it. Yes, it's a trend and yes there are shades of gray. But I can call a spade a spade. Republicans have moved far right with Trump, and they've attracted tons of racists and sexists. This is not even uncontroversial.
EPT
