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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3504

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-13 18:55:59
February 13 2022 16:58 GMT
#70061
On February 13 2022 21:03 SC-Shield wrote:
By the way, I just want to share anti-corruption investigations by Navalny and his team: https://www.youtube.com/c/АлексейНавальный

Once you watch these videos (they have EN subtitles), you'll likely realize how incredibly corrupt senior Russian politicians are. Relation to the Ukraine crisis is, you can't trust a word they say like "it's western hysteria", "we won't invade", etc. I probably don't need to persuade any of people here since it's western community, but if there is media you should be skeptical of, that's Russian state media for sure.


It's hard to find a word in order to describe the size of corruption properly :D The series of videos published in Navalny channel will surprise most of the posters in this topic for sure, it's hard to imagine being so greedy as all those (ex: one of them is using enormous amount of money to send his dogs via private jet all the time) peacocks while an average citizens getting pushed to the side.

Living almost next to the border - is a special flavor. People locally seems like partially stressed, partially tired of being stressed, the other part does not think it will happen, overall no panic (got a feeling that most of panic views are coming from the social media). Most of the locals don't believe in invasion for a few reasons, but if it happen - the level of resistance will be high. Frankly - tanks and soldiers are not something we should be afraid of when you have airforce/artillery to deal with. The local weather is above 0C during the day, everything is muddy and they won't be able to relocate ground forces quickly during the next month due to weather conditions even if they want to. Why would they build up for a number of weeks letting us to prepare even more? This is a dumb strategy, just like going 6 pool w/o allin. And the answer it seems like very usual as - flexing to gain economic benefits.

Secondly, russian opposition media reports that russian army generals are really stressed and opposed, they don't wanna go down this road.

What surprises me the most - is a weird reaction by German officials. Merkel left and took all the balls with herself? :D
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
February 13 2022 17:07 GMT
#70062
I really, really wish this was just western hysteria. Because the alternative is that much scarier.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-13 17:29:13
February 13 2022 17:24 GMT
#70063
On February 14 2022 02:07 Silvanel wrote:
I really, really wish this was just western hysteria. Because the alternative is that much scarier.


Yea, I hope the same

Speaking of hysteria, the level of it is much much higher in the social media in comparison to what's happening outside, at least by now from my pov
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
Doc.Rivers
Profile Joined December 2011
United States404 Posts
February 13 2022 17:37 GMT
#70064
On February 14 2022 01:49 JimmiC wrote:
You got to really give the Russian facebook, propaganda or whatever team a hell of a lot of credit. Somehow in the last 5-10 years they have completed switched the American Republican's opinion on Russia.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/03/republicans-gloat-on-crimea-crisis-gop-leaders-believe-putins-invasion-of-ukraine-confirms-their-views.html


Russiagate had the curious effect of driving dems to be Russia hawks and driving Republicans away from that. Now it is dems and their newfound neocon allies (such as Bill Kristol and David Frum) beating the drums of war. Meanwhile the most watched republican voice (Tucker) is doing the opposite.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22705 Posts
February 13 2022 17:39 GMT
#70065
On February 14 2022 02:37 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2022 01:49 JimmiC wrote:
You got to really give the Russian facebook, propaganda or whatever team a hell of a lot of credit. Somehow in the last 5-10 years they have completed switched the American Republican's opinion on Russia.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/03/republicans-gloat-on-crimea-crisis-gop-leaders-believe-putins-invasion-of-ukraine-confirms-their-views.html


Russiagate had the curious effect of driving dems to be Russia hawks and driving Republicans away from that. Now it is dems and their newfound neocon allies (such as Bill Kristol and David Frum) beating the drums of war. Meanwhile the most watched republican voice (Tucker) is doing the opposite.
That's what happens when your principles are not based on morality or logic but on what is best for you personally and about 'beating' the other side.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
February 13 2022 17:52 GMT
#70066
--- Nuked ---
Doc.Rivers
Profile Joined December 2011
United States404 Posts
February 13 2022 17:55 GMT
#70067
On February 14 2022 02:52 JimmiC wrote:
It boggles my mind that the most watched Republican voice has to be legally determined to be satire because of how often and the impact of his consistent lying. You would think there would be way more embarrassment around that. But who needs fact when you can be ignorant and feel good about "pwn"ing libs.


The same legal determination was actually made about the most watched dem voice (maddow).
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18876 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-13 18:00:38
February 13 2022 17:58 GMT
#70068
Wait, I thought it was agreed upon that regarding political parties as monoliths is a bad idea, especially in a structurally strict two-party system? And now all Democrats are more or less Rachel Maddows and all Republicans are more or less Tucker Carlsons? How exactly are either of those people being assigned so much influence?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Doc.Rivers
Profile Joined December 2011
United States404 Posts
February 13 2022 18:34 GMT
#70069
Well I cited Tucker as evidence that Russiagate caused broad changes in the parties. I would not go so far as to say everyone is a Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9077 Posts
February 13 2022 18:40 GMT
#70070
On February 14 2022 02:58 farvacola wrote:
Wait, I thought it was agreed upon that regarding political parties as monoliths is a bad idea, especially in a structurally strict two-party system? And now all Democrats are more or less Rachel Maddows and all Republicans are more or less Tucker Carlsons? How exactly are either of those people being assigned so much influence?

It's usually the loudest talking heads that get ascribed that honor. Since O'reilly is gone, they need someone to rally behind.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
February 13 2022 18:53 GMT
#70071
--- Nuked ---
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-13 18:57:52
February 13 2022 18:56 GMT
#70072
0 chance that open feuding happens while McConnell lives. The Republicans have shown they are very invested in the appearance of unity and they aren't going to give that up while their most powerful leader (McConnell) draws breath on this cursed plane of existence.

They know they need the psychotic Q-anon base, they may hate them in private but their truest principle is a love of power and open feuding jeopardizes their power.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
February 13 2022 18:58 GMT
#70073
On February 14 2022 02:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2022 02:52 JimmiC wrote:
It boggles my mind that the most watched Republican voice has to be legally determined to be satire because of how often and the impact of his consistent lying. You would think there would be way more embarrassment around that. But who needs fact when you can be ignorant and feel good about "pwn"ing libs.


The same legal determination was actually made about the most watched dem voice (maddow).


Which is misleading because Fox has more viewers than MSNBC and CNN combined when you want to compare left and right wing viewers.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22705 Posts
February 13 2022 19:02 GMT
#70074
On February 14 2022 03:53 JimmiC wrote:
I wonder if we are going to get to open Republican feuding between the QAnon/Trumpian "goof balls" and the more traditional Republicans. It seems like more of the old gaurd like McConnell are becoming super frustrated with just the idiocy of the others and are now actively working to reclaim the party.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/mitch-mcconnell-working-behind-scenes-170716288.html
Without the Qanon/Trump base the Republicans can't win elections. They can be frustrated, and I think McConnell will have been frustrated since the Tea Party took over, but a public fight is suicide.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
goiflin
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1220 Posts
February 13 2022 19:10 GMT
#70075
On February 14 2022 04:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2022 03:53 JimmiC wrote:
I wonder if we are going to get to open Republican feuding between the QAnon/Trumpian "goof balls" and the more traditional Republicans. It seems like more of the old gaurd like McConnell are becoming super frustrated with just the idiocy of the others and are now actively working to reclaim the party.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/mitch-mcconnell-working-behind-scenes-170716288.html
Without the Qanon/Trump base the Republicans can't win elections. They can be frustrated, and I think McConnell will have been frustrated since the Tea Party took over, but a public fight is suicide.


This is more or less what the party has cultivated over the past 3+ decades. It is on purpose, and while it does bite them in the ass slightly, the crazy base who is absolutely okay with living in a fantasy world conjured by satirists needs them as much as Republicans need intellectually dishonest imbeciles like Tucker. Their voices won't be heard otherwise.

It is funny to see those bad faith actors spouting whataboutery on this topic though. As if both sides are bought into satire realities in equal measure, as if it makes a difference when pointing out the many decades of Republican reactionary policy. Priceless dishonesty, built to serve no purpose, as usual.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
February 13 2022 19:11 GMT
#70076
--- Nuked ---
Doc.Rivers
Profile Joined December 2011
United States404 Posts
February 13 2022 19:22 GMT
#70077
On February 14 2022 03:58 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2022 02:55 Doc.Rivers wrote:
On February 14 2022 02:52 JimmiC wrote:
It boggles my mind that the most watched Republican voice has to be legally determined to be satire because of how often and the impact of his consistent lying. You would think there would be way more embarrassment around that. But who needs fact when you can be ignorant and feel good about "pwn"ing libs.


The same legal determination was actually made about the most watched dem voice (maddow).


Which is misleading because Fox has more viewers than MSNBC and CNN combined when you want to compare left and right wing viewers.


The viewership numbers kind of depend on which party currently holds the white house. Back when Trump was in office, the MSNBC and CNN numbers were through the roof, and we got the ratings-driven satire realities of Russiagate, Russian bounties, Trump has dementia, Steve Bannon is a nazi, etc.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22427 Posts
February 13 2022 19:54 GMT
#70078
Do some really still think that a head of state would mention he'd have to use his nuclear arsenal in his speech if he planned on invading a country followed by guaranteed retaliation?
A war that his country couldn't win through conventional warfare?

If you think that, you might as well think that they can skip A-invasion and proceed straight to B and tout that instead.

On February 13 2022 22:20 Sermokala wrote:
Christ the euros really are just going to let the Russians walk over them and let putin rebuild the Soviet union.


Spoken like a true hooligan.
I'd honestly not care who walked over me if it meant that life on earth kept existing. But common sense tends to shrink proportionately to the power of governments. Then again I've been able to live a peaceful life in a pleasant country so that turned out to be my thinking.

If I was trapped in a burning house facing a neighbour whose house is fine with nothing but a molotov cocktail in my hand, I might start to get ideas.
r00ty
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1101 Posts
February 13 2022 19:56 GMT
#70079
On February 14 2022 01:44 Sadist wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
People need to remember hitler and ww2 did not involve nuclear weapons.

If you told me there was 0 chance of nuclear or biological weapons being used id be all for heavy intervention.

The fact is Russia is a nuclear power and that needs to be considered when response and escalation is considered.

We should tell them Ukraine wont join NATO and mean it. If they refuse to fuck off we have lost nothing and are at the same situation we have today. If they do fuckoff we avoided a horrific war with untold costs for all sides.


It honestly feels like a dick measuring contest with nuclear weapons involved.



Agreed, hopefully that will be enough. And the eastern extension of the NATO was never agreed upon during the fall of the soviet union. Eastern Germany was allowed to join, that was it. So we kicked and insulted them a bit, when the Russians were down, now they're coming back at us when we are weakened and divided.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22705 Posts
February 13 2022 20:09 GMT
#70080
On February 14 2022 04:56 r00ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2022 01:44 Sadist wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
People need to remember hitler and ww2 did not involve nuclear weapons.

If you told me there was 0 chance of nuclear or biological weapons being used id be all for heavy intervention.

The fact is Russia is a nuclear power and that needs to be considered when response and escalation is considered.

We should tell them Ukraine wont join NATO and mean it. If they refuse to fuck off we have lost nothing and are at the same situation we have today. If they do fuckoff we avoided a horrific war with untold costs for all sides.


It honestly feels like a dick measuring contest with nuclear weapons involved.



Agreed, hopefully that will be enough. And the eastern extension of the NATO was never agreed upon during the fall of the soviet union. Eastern Germany was allowed to join, that was it. So we kicked and insulted them a bit, when the Russians were down, now they're coming back at us when we are weakened and divided.
I love how its NATO's fault that former USSR nations want protection from an antagonistic Russia.

Not to mention that NATO isn't even a threat to Russia, its a defensive alliance. The only reason Russia should be worried about NATO 'encroachment' is if they (Russia) want to get aggressive in the region.


It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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